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Naughty Dog Announces Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet

Wicked is a movie for kids at Christmas time, so not the best example. Again, its success is based on a huge IP.

Barbie is the biggest doll brand out there, with a hot actress in the leading role (they didn't pick an ugly one for that, huh?), an interesting visual presentation, and a follow-up on the success of Lalaland. They were smart with this one. Also, many kids went with their parents to this fake nostalgia-bait movie.

Even so, those are countered by dozens of flops. This could be an argument in 2015, not today.
 

Bernardougf

Member
People are frustrated so I cannot say it doesn't discourage people from buying the game.

The point I'm making is HOW MUCH it impacts the overall sales of a video game or a movie.



I don't believe it's that simple.

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever succeeded, but Furiosa failed. I don't consider this a "gender swap" because they're completely different characters. Black Panther succeeded because it's a Marvel movie and Shuri is an established character in the franchise. There could be also something to do with the actress being cast in her role. I believe it would've done better if actress was known for her action roles in films.
Wakanda forever barely broke even or more likely even lost money .. its was 250 million budget with a 850. Mil total grossed... break even would be close to the 900 mil mark

As comparison Black Panther cost 200 mil and made 1.3+ billion .

Wakanda Forever was not a success by any metric and a big drop off from the first movie even without adjusting for inflation
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
No, no - Wicked is not just "considered" woke, it IS woke. But it doesn't affect sales because the target demographic (in its majority) doesn't care about, or endorses, wokeness.

In order to make a good case, you must present me a fully woke movie (or any piece of media for that matter) whose fanbase is predominately male, where that piece of media fully attacks masculinity, fully elevates women in girlboss roles, lectures you on pronouns, race, white privilege and conservative values, etc. AND that utterly kills it in the box office or sales.

Basically, show me an Acolyte which succeeded and sold millions.

Show me such an example, and we can talk.

And that's why I brought up The Last of Us TV show because it has a large male audience.

Acolyte was a terrible Star Wars series and even fans of Star Wars were upset at the major retcons.

You're not making a good case because every time I bring up something considered "woke" and successful, you tell me it's because it is good. Well, how come TV series such as Acolyte can't fail because it's bad?

I'll bring up another example.

Many sitcoms in the past would be considered woke because they touched on topics about race, privilege, gender-roles, etc. You even have The Show The Conners that are more open and direct about these topics and you don't see millions of people turning off their TVs.


Movies, games, and TV shows bomb because the movie is just bad.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Wakanda forever barely broke even or more likely even lost money .. its was 250 million budget with a 850. Mil total grossed... break even would be close to the 900 mil mark

As comparison Black Panther cost 200 mil and made 1.3+ billion .

Wakanda Forever was not a success by any metric and a big drop off from the first movie even without adjusting for inflation

No, because all movies don't make their money from the box office alone. And just because something succeeded, doesn't mean it did not underperform in some aspects. Still, the point is that one movie flopped and this one didn't. It attracted a bigger audience and generated more money than the other.
 

Bernardougf

Member
No, because all movies don't make their money from the box office alone. And just because something succeeded, doesn't mean it did not underperform in some aspects. Still, the point is that one movie flopped and this one didn't. It attracted a bigger audience and generated more money than the other.
LoL... sorry mate.. thats goal post moving and bad faith argument... you know pretty well that loosing money is not a metric of succes for any business... much more when coming from a lucrative previous product, and "perfoming better than this other failed project" is not a metric for success either.. so if you are going to ignore numbers and talk success out of your ass than talk alone.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
LoL... sorry mate.. thats goal post moving and bad faith argument... you know pretty well that loosing money is not a metric of succes for any business... much more when coming from a lucrative previous product, and "perfoming better than this other failed project" is not a metric for success either.. so if you are going to ignore numbers and talk success out of your ass than talk alone.

That's not how you lose money.

You also believe a game would underperform with 6 million sales in the first year. You also believe TLOU 2 underperformed or didn't meet internal expectations with zero evidence.
 

Nickolaidas

Member

Jokes aside, this is going to be a gigantic money saver for companies and publishers in 4-8 years.

I work at a publishing company and we already decided to stop hiring animators for a few short animated films (which were meant to be used for marketing) and just make them with A.I. instead. We also stopped hiring voice actors and use A.I. to do audio dialogue. While the technology is still in an infantile stage, it is progressing very rapidly.

My theory is that imagination is going to be a huge commodity in the next decade, because everyone will be able to make movies - but only those with the imagination to create great fictional worlds will prosper.

But one has to wonder how long until A.I. can trace those worlds and make its own new ones, who will be just as interesting, if not more, to explore.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
And that's why I brought up The Last of Us TV show because it has a large male audience.
Nnnnnnah, I don't agree with it being your gatcha. TloU show still had a straight male lead who plays the role of protector and kills a small army in the end in order to 'save' what he perceives to be 'family'. Quite a lot of masculine values prevent the show from being Acolyte levels of woke. A single 100% gay episode, Pedro Pascal and a few women in leadership roles in a post-apocalyptic setting isn't enough to deter that, especially when the first game is a favorite amongst gamers.
 
104 pages and we haven't seen proper gameplay yet. Wow.

8UD14Ut.png


GAF hates it but can't stop talking about it.
 

SF Kosmo

Banned
Im not the one downgrading this game to sub Days Gone level of sales two/three years before its release mate and trying to start the trend that ND games now are expected to sell only 6 mil in a year to be a success for Sony. If this is not fear .. what is ... lol ...

In fact I really hope this game sells only 6mil in one whole year ... huge succes im sure.... lol.
It will sell twice that, most likely.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Nnnnnnah, I don't agree with it being your gatcha. TloU show still had a straight male lead who plays the role of protector and kills a small army in the end in order to 'save' what he perceives to be 'family'. Quite a lot of masculine values prevent the show from being Acolyte levels of woke. A single 100% gay episode, Pedro Pascal and a few women in leadership roles in a post-apocalyptic setting isn't enough to deter that, especially when the first game is a favorite amongst gamers.


And the goalpost keeps moving. lol

Two episodes featuring gay couples, other episodes where fans of the series claimed they made him soft isn't "woke enough."

But you're saying there, "levels to this"

I mean, I GUESS we could compare the sales between AC Shadows and the last three AC games, once Shadows is out for a year?

But AC Shadows is not on the same level as Dragon Age, but you want to use it as proof it if bombs.

This is how it goes.

If AC Shadows bombs, you're going to blame wokeness.
If it's successful, you're going to say it's based on a popular franchise.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, you're going to blame it on wokeness
If it's successful, say it's because Ghost of Tsushima was already popular.

But overall you're proving my point. These woke elements didn't do enough to "deter" the audience because..........the majority just doesn't care.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
But you're saying there, "levels to this"
Of course there are levels. Just because you put Type A and Type B in Elden Ring's character creation instead of Male and Female doesn't automatically make it as woke as Dustborn.

Like I said - woke points. The more you amass, the bigger the chances the game will flop.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, I am going to blame it on gamers being sick and tired of the girlboss replacing the established male protagonist of the IP and pattern recognition. Although I honestly do not think the game will bomb. I think it'll do fairly well.

AC Shadows is a strange beast, because aside from Yasuke, I am not sure that there is anything 'woke' or 'offensive' about the game, though that may end up being enough and of itself.

the majority just doesn't care
But that majority seems to care more and more.

Also, a factor you seem to be ignoring, is the fact that shows like the Acolyte are also bad due to wokeness BEHIND the scenes. By hiring actors, showrunners and directors not because of merit, but because of sexuality and / or skin color. There's more to wokeness than just changing Male to Type A in the char select screen. It affects writing, design, staff and overall quality because you no longer hire the best people for the job.

I mean, Jesus Christ, AC Shadows is said to have unexperienced employees comprising 50% of the dev team. And I am willing to bet a lot of those are the 'progressive' types with the 'correct way of thinking'. How do you make a million dollar IP with people who never worked before? Was the collage photo of 200 Type B employees worth it that much?
 

evolve

Member
Of course there are levels. Just because you put Type A and Type B in Elden Ring's character creation instead of Male and Female doesn't automatically make it as woke as Dustborn.

Like I said - woke points. The more you amass, the bigger the chances the game will flop.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, I am going to blame it on gamers being sick and tired of the girlboss replacing the established male protagonist of the IP and pattern recognition. Although I honestly do not think the game will bomb. I think it'll do fairly well.

AC Shadows is a strange beast, because aside from Yasuke, I am not sure that there is anything 'woke' or 'offensive' about the game, though that may end up being enough and of itself.


But that majority seems to care more and more.

Also, a factor you seem to be ignoring, is the fact that shows like the Acolyte are also bad due to wokeness BEHIND the scenes. By hiring actors, showrunners and directors not because of merit, but because of sexuality and / or skin color. There's more to wokeness than just changing Male to Type A in the char select screen. It affects writing, design, staff and overall quality because you no longer hire the best people for the job.

I mean, Jesus Christ, AC Shadows is said to have unexperienced employees comprising 50% of the dev team. And I am willing to bet a lot of those are the 'progressive' types with the 'correct way of thinking'. How do you make a million dollar IP with people who never worked before? Was the collage photo of 200 Type B employees worth it that much?
How can you not use a different protag in the new Ghost game? It's not a replacement since it is set in a different era, literally 300+ years after...and the first game already had a "girlboss".

And let's not pretend like Jin Sakai was a great and charismatic character...he wasn't.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Of course there are levels. Just because you put Type A and Type B in Elden Ring's character creation instead of Male and Female doesn't automatically make it as woke as Dustborn.

Like I said - woke points. The more you amass, the bigger the chances the game will flop.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, I am going to blame it on gamers being sick and tired of the girlboss replacing the established male protagonist of the IP and pattern recognition. Although I honestly do not think the game will bomb. I think it'll do fairly well.

AC Shadows is a strange beast, because aside from Yasuke, I am not sure that there is anything 'woke' or 'offensive' about the game, though that may end up being enough and of itself.

Wait.. wait.. no..

You already said earlier you wanted to wait to see how AC Shadows was going to perform, but now you're saying, "I'm not sure that there is anything "woke" or "offensive."

You wouldn't wait to see how AC Shadows performed, you would have said from the beginning it wouldn't be an issue for gamers.
But that majority seems to care more and more.

Also, a factor you seem to be ignoring, is the fact that shows like the Acolyte are also bad due to wokeness BEHIND the scenes. By hiring actors, showrunners and directors not because of merit, but because of sexuality and / or skin color. There's more to wokeness than just changing Male to Type A in the char select screen. It affects writing, design, staff and overall quality because you no longer hire the best people for the job.

Your average viewer knows nothing about that. Unless your name is up there with the likes of Quentin Tarantino, then your average consumer won't have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. This is why I mentioned sitcoms that always go into topics about race, sex, gender, etc. that don't turn viewers away. This is been going on for decades.

I mean, Jesus Christ, AC Shadows is said to have unexperienced employees comprising 50% of the dev team. And I am willing to bet a lot of those are the 'progressive' types with the 'correct way of thinking'. How do you make a million dollar IP with people who never worked before? Was the collage photo of 200 Type B employees worth it that much?

Your average gamer doesn't know anything about what happened behind the scenes, so that's irrelevant.

You can't say we should wait to see how AC performs to try to prove a point but then say it's not that woke to begin with. lol.

It's like you want to use it as an example only if it proves your point.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Wakanda forever barely broke even or more likely even lost money .. its was 250 million budget with a 850. Mil total grossed... break even would be close to the 900 mil mark

As comparison Black Panther cost 200 mil and made 1.3+ billion .

Wakanda Forever was not a success by any metric and a big drop off from the first movie even without adjusting for inflation

It also pulled in sales because of Boseman's untimely death the same way The Crow did because of Brandon Lee's untimely death. Let Chadwick had still been alive and healthy with the writers killing Tchalla off anyway and replacing him with Shuri. Men would have boycotted.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Days Gone sold 9 million copies. Sony would sign with blood those sales for every new IP, including this one. Anyone thinking this will sell better than TLOU 2 is delusional.

Days Gone made $285 million with 8 million copies sold.
Ghost of Tsushima made $397 million with 7.4 million copies sold.
They made an extra $107 million with the Director's Cut, which sold 1.4 million

If the Insomniac leak was an indicator of success then it would need to sell 7.2 million at full price to be successful if the game budget is at 300m, so it doesn't need to sell better than TLOU 2.
 

llien

Banned
But HOW woke were they? Those successful games?

Besides having pronouns in the character select screen, did they raceswap 1/3rd of the cast? Did they completely emasculate the male characters? Were the female characters in those games insufferable stoic flat chested girl bosses while the men were useless cucks or toxic assholes? Were the women ugly? Did they stress the fact that whites should denounce their privilege and let women take charge? Were there sermons about non-binary characters?

Or did they simply have a woman as the main character?
Well, Barbie does super woke classic feminism "puah womxn", does emasculate male characters and what not.
 

Killer8

Member
The real loss here is that Naughty Dog are firmly a realistic visuals studio. The stylized days of Crash and Jak are long dead. While it was never likely they'd go back to a mascot game, I was really hoping they would go in a more cartoony direction with this. It just looks like The Last of Us in space, with an overdone 80s retro vibe and some of the worst voice acting delivery i've heard in a while.
 
But one has to wonder how long until A.I. can trace those worlds and make its own new ones, who will be just as interesting, if not more, to explore.
A.I. "shorts / TikToks" are flooding the algorithm too.

a lot of youtbers are using A. I. to make their thumbnails.

this video just dropped:


you are right, people using A.I. to circumvent their lack of talent, cut corners are doomed to produce generic shit.

A.I.'s progress has slowed down and the have been using synthetic data which introduces a lot of issues... it feels like inbreeding A.I. generation.

to me the future is simple: The bar is going to be insanely high

Good artist + A.I.= Gods

artists - A.I = left behind at the industrial level.

"promoters" = bad/devalued "quality".even worse paid than actual artist
 

Bernardougf

Member
It also pulled in sales because of Boseman's untimely death the same way The Crow did because of Brandon Lee's untimely death. Let Chadwick had still been alive and healthy with the writers killing Tchalla off anyway and replacing him with Shuri. Men would have boycotted.
Sure... agreed and even than it was a failure since as a product it failed to bring profits and probably lost money considering budget x grossed... but apparently even failing it was a success because reasons lol.
 

Bernardougf

Member
.
It will sell twice that, most likely.
TLOU2 sold aprox. 10 mil in 2 years (last official number) and probably a couple mil more after with the remake and etc...so lets make 13 mil.... it should have been more successful (giving the huge success of the first game) but it was a divisive game among the ND fanbase. I think this "division" will really show up now with this new IP plus a cultural scenario that its very different from the last time and it can look even more hostile in the future.

getting TLOU2 numbers (12-13mil) for this new game its not going to be easy. I wouldn't bet on this. specially if Cuckman continues to double down on his "views", whitch he almost certainly will, in the subsequent trailers.
 

kungfuian

Member
A limited release of those shoes would prob sell out in a heat beat. Could see them being popular with ladies wanting to sport a future-retro punk look.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
A limited release of those shoes would prob sell out in a heat beat. Could see them being popular with ladies wanting to sport a future-retro punk look.

It looks like a slightly modified Adidas Americana Hi.
if they can make it glow, its selling out in no time.
It shouldnt even be size limited cuz id rock a pair.

adidas-americana-hi-blanc-noir-rouge-vif-3914-main.jpg


tnn1k3jqmk6e1.png
 
I play games to escape. Not to be preached at.


"Atmosphere at Naughty Dog is reportedly tense and developers are scrambling to address the backlash [...] some argue its too late", huh? (timestamped)

If true, it can still be salvaged and revamped, Neil. Contracts might have been negotiated, signed and in place, but you can still give it a visual stylized overhaul followed by a glorious re-reveal, even if it might go against your judgement and personal attachments. Its your call.
 

GymWolf

Member
"Atmosphere at Naughty Dog is reportedly tense and developers are scrambling to address the backlash [...] some argue its too late", huh? (timestamped)

If true, it can still be salvaged and revamped, Neil. Contracts might have been negotiated, signed and in place, but you can still give it a visual stylized overhaul followed by a glorious re-reveal, even if it might go against your judgement and personal attachments. Its your call.
It's probably a bunch of bollocks, they knew what they were doing with that trailer, they are not stupid enough to not expect the massive trolling coming their way.

They think they are too big to fail.
 
"Atmosphere at Naughty Dog is reportedly tense and developers are scrambling to address the backlash [...] some argue its too late", huh? (timestamped)

If true, it can still be salvaged and revamped, Neil. Contracts might have been negotiated, signed and in place, but you can still give it a visual stylized overhaul followed by a glorious re-reveal, even if it might go against your judgement and personal attachments. Its your call.

TBF, Youtubers are such Fake News that you should be taking an enormous grain of salt when it comes to stuff from there.
 

Fabieter

Member
"Atmosphere at Naughty Dog is reportedly tense and developers are scrambling to address the backlash [...] some argue its too late", huh? (timestamped)

If true, it can still be salvaged and revamped, Neil. Contracts might have been negotiated, signed and in place, but you can still give it a visual stylized overhaul followed by a glorious re-reveal, even if it might go against your judgement and personal attachments. Its your call.

He's cooked of he stays on course.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
And the goalpost keeps moving. lol

Two episodes featuring gay couples, other episodes where fans of the series claimed they made him soft isn't "woke enough."

But you're saying there, "levels to this"



But AC Shadows is not on the same level as Dragon Age, but you want to use it as proof it if bombs.

This is how it goes.

If AC Shadows bombs, you're going to blame wokeness.
If it's successful, you're going to say it's based on a popular franchise.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, you're going to blame it on wokeness
If it's successful, say it's because Ghost of Tsushima was already popular.

But overall you're proving my point. These woke elements didn't do enough to "deter" the audience because..........the majority just doesn't care.
I find the arguments over whether or not this or that is AKSHULLY woke to be somewhat tedious, especially since picking out one or two elements that may or may not be woke is just not the right way to look at it. It's actually much more simple. It's fair to say Druckmann is a "woke" guy, fully on board with this stuff, and he wrote and directed and produced the show. The show is obviously a product of the people who make it, ergo the show is woke. The gay guy episode is exactly the sort of thing that a woke guy would put in the show, because he's woke.

Like I always point out with regards to Shadows or Outlaws that you can go on Ubisoft's website and see pages about their DEI policies and representation. So, it is reasonable to say that this stuff plays a major influence in the content and design of these games. And it obviously does. R6 Siege has an operator in a fucking wheelchair. So the correct answer to "is it woke?" is basically YES, all the time, if you have to ask.

As for player reception, I also want to point out that this stuff very much is, for lack of a better word, fluid. People are less tolerant of this stuff than they were 5 years ago. They care more now than they did in 2018 or 2022. I think Dragon Age's weird push up scene really hurt it, and turned the game into a joke.

That said, I have found this weird dynamic where people who claim to be against wokeness in vidya will buy something that is obviously woke and just claim that it's not actually woke. I find this silly and immature, because even if you are against wokeness in vidya, we all pick and choose our battles. So maybe someone really wants to play Ghost of Yotei and will play it in spite of its obvious feminist messaging, but that doesn't mean that they aren't against it somewhere else.
 
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Audiophile

Member
ezgif-5-6b5cc7a814.webp


Trailer came up in my suggestions the other day and randomly wondered if the CD in the trailer is accurate. Turns out it pretty much is..

It's the Pet Shop Boys' "Actually", released in 1987; I believe this is the first press:

Parlophone / CDP 7 46972 2, CDPCSD 104 & CDP7 46972 2 / CD / Europe / 1987 Sonopress Pressing / Made In W.Germany

Discogs:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1256763-Pet-Shop-Boys-Actually
MusicBrainz: https://musicbrainz.org/release/14b48f7c-b09f-47c6-a007-010d0585bca1

Everything on the disc is modelled accurately except for the fonts on some elements, and the Parlophone logo has been switched out for black rectangle with a circle and "Cool Girl Gang Music Group ℗ 1990" written underneath.

Finally, the Matrix / Runout has been reversed to be front-facing, has a slightly narrower strip and instead of the "SONOPRESS B-9589/CDP 7469722 A" on the real disc, this one says "6845623 45689654 STEREO T.N. S.H. N.B. S.S. A.G."..

I can't find any references for these in regards to the release, so presumably they're just little inserts relevant to the artists who made the model.

Real life:

6rwVSr3.jpeg
DKTaNJW.jpeg
8LSUkoJ.jpeg


In-game:

tCWxn7U.jpeg
ouioUEF.jpeg


So that's how I spent my last ~25mins, lol..
 
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Trailer came up in my suggestions the other day and randomly wondered if the CD in the trailer is accurate. Turns out it pretty much is..

It's the Pet Shop Boys' "Actually", released in 1987; I believe this is the first press:

Parlophone / CDP 7 46972 2, CDPCSD 104 & CDP7 46972 2 / CD / Europe / 1987 Sonopress Pressing / Made In W.Germany

Discogs:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1256763-Pet-Shop-Boys-Actually
MusicBrainz: https://musicbrainz.org/release/14b48f7c-b09f-47c6-a007-010d0585bca1

Everything on the disc is modelled accurately except for the fonts on some elements and the Parlophone logo has been switched out for black rectangle with a circle and "Cool Girl Gang Music Group ℗ 1990" written underneath.

Finally, the Matrix / Runout has been reversed to be front-facing, has a slightly narrower strip and instead of the "SONOPRESS B-9589/CDP 7469722 A" on the real disc, this one says "6845623 45689654 STEREO T.N. S.H. N.B. S.S. A.G."..

I can't find any references for these in regards to the release, so presumably they're just little inserts relevant to the artists who made these models.

Real life:

6rwVSr3.jpeg
DKTaNJW.jpeg
8LSUkoJ.jpeg


In-game:

tCWxn7U.jpeg
ouioUEF.jpeg


So that's how I spent my last ~25mins, lol..

Nice research. Also, nice attention to detail.
 

viveks86

Member
Trailer came up in my suggestions the other day and randomly wondered if the CD in the trailer is accurate. Turns out it pretty much is..

It's the Pet Shop Boys' "Actually", released in 1987; I believe this is the first press:

Parlophone / CDP 7 46972 2, CDPCSD 104 & CDP7 46972 2 / CD / Europe / 1987 Sonopress Pressing / Made In W.Germany

Discogs:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1256763-Pet-Shop-Boys-Actually
MusicBrainz: https://musicbrainz.org/release/14b48f7c-b09f-47c6-a007-010d0585bca1

Everything on the disc is modelled accurately except for the fonts on some elements, and the Parlophone logo has been switched out for black rectangle with a circle and "Cool Girl Gang Music Group ℗ 1990" written underneath.

Finally, the Matrix / Runout has been reversed to be front-facing, has a slightly narrower strip and instead of the "SONOPRESS B-9589/CDP 7469722 A" on the real disc, this one says "6845623 45689654 STEREO T.N. S.H. N.B. S.S. A.G."..

I can't find any references for these in regards to the release, so presumably they're just little inserts relevant to the artists who made the model.

Real life:

6rwVSr3.jpeg
DKTaNJW.jpeg
8LSUkoJ.jpeg


In-game:

tCWxn7U.jpeg
ouioUEF.jpeg


So that's how I spent my last ~25mins, lol..
I had that same question a while ago, but didn't think the research would give the results. Nice job!
 

yogaflame

Member
Since Bend and Bluepoint resource were wasted on live services that was shutdown recently, hopes for a good single player exclusives from the west lies with this three games, GOY, Wolverine and ITHP. But if ITHP or any of this three game has turned into woke with force and push for agendas especially twisted gender ideology crap, then it will really be the doom for Sony game development in this ps5 cycle and will really hurt sales and future game development towards ps6.
 
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