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[Angry_Megalodon]

Wicked is a movie for kids at Christmas time, so not the best example. Again, its success is based on a huge IP.

Barbie is the biggest doll brand out there, with a hot actress in the leading role (they didn't pick an ugly one for that, huh?), an interesting visual presentation, and a follow-up on the success of Lalaland. They were smart with this one. Also, many kids went with their parents to this fake nostalgia-bait movie.

Even so, those are countered by dozens of flops. This could be an argument in 2015, not today.

 

[Bernardougf]

People are frustrated so I cannot say it doesn't discourage people from buying the game.

The point I'm making is HOW MUCH it impacts the overall sales of a video game or a movie.



I don't believe it's that simple.

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever succeeded, but Furiosa failed. I don't consider this a "gender swap" because they're completely different characters. Black Panther succeeded because it's a Marvel movie and Shuri is an established character in the franchise. There could be also something to do with the actress being cast in her role. I believe it would've done better if actress was known for her action roles in films.

Wakanda forever barely broke even or more likely even lost money .. its was 250 million budget with a 850. Mil total grossed... break even would be close to the 900 mil mark

As comparison Black Panther cost 200 mil and made 1.3+ billion .

Wakanda Forever was not a success by any metric and a big drop off from the first movie even without adjusting for inflation

 

[DForce]

No, no - Wicked is not just "considered" woke, it IS woke. But it doesn't affect sales because the target demographic (in its majority) doesn't care about, or endorses, wokeness.

In order to make a good case, you must present me a fully woke movie (or any piece of media for that matter) whose fanbase is predominately male, where that piece of media fully attacks masculinity, fully elevates women in girlboss roles, lectures you on pronouns, race, white privilege and conservative values, etc. AND that utterly kills it in the box office or sales.

Basically, show me an Acolyte which succeeded and sold millions.

Show me such an example, and we can talk.

And that's why I brought up The Last of Us TV show because it has a large male audience.

Acolyte was a terrible Star Wars series and even fans of Star Wars were upset at the major retcons.

You're not making a good case because every time I bring up something considered "woke" and successful, you tell me it's because it is good. Well, how come TV series such as Acolyte can't fail because it's bad?

I'll bring up another example.

Many sitcoms in the past would be considered woke because they touched on topics about race, privilege, gender-roles, etc. You even have The Show The Conners that are more open and direct about these topics and you don't see millions of people turning off their TVs.


Movies, games, and TV shows bomb because the movie is just bad.

 

[DForce]

Wakanda forever barely broke even or more likely even lost money .. its was 250 million budget with a 850. Mil total grossed... break even would be close to the 900 mil mark

As comparison Black Panther cost 200 mil and made 1.3+ billion .

Wakanda Forever was not a success by any metric and a big drop off from the first movie even without adjusting for inflation

No, because all movies don't make their money from the box office alone. And just because something succeeded, doesn't mean it did not underperform in some aspects. Still, the point is that one movie flopped and this one didn't. It attracted a bigger audience and generated more money than the other.

 

[Bernardougf]

No, because all movies don't make their money from the box office alone. And just because something succeeded, doesn't mean it did not underperform in some aspects. Still, the point is that one movie flopped and this one didn't. It attracted a bigger audience and generated more money than the other.

LoL... sorry mate.. thats goal post moving and bad faith argument... you know pretty well that loosing money is not a metric of succes for any business... much more when coming from a lucrative previous product, and "perfoming better than this other failed project" is not a metric for success either.. so if you are going to ignore numbers and talk success out of your ass than talk alone.

 

[DForce]

LoL... sorry mate.. thats goal post moving and bad faith argument... you know pretty well that loosing money is not a metric of succes for any business... much more when coming from a lucrative previous product, and "perfoming better than this other failed project" is not a metric for success either.. so if you are going to ignore numbers and talk success out of your ass than talk alone.

That's not how you lose money.

You also believe a game would underperform with 6 million sales in the first year. You also believe TLOU 2 underperformed or didn't meet internal expectations with zero evidence.

 

[Zghia]

Yo this is pure gold

 

[Salz01]

This is so awesome. Can’t wait till AI takes over games.

 

[Fake]

Best ending.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Jokes aside, this is going to be a gigantic money saver for companies and publishers in 4-8 years.

I work at a publishing company and we already decided to stop hiring animators for a few short animated films (which were meant to be used for marketing) and just make them with A.I. instead. We also stopped hiring voice actors and use A.I. to do audio dialogue. While the technology is still in an infantile stage, it is progressing very rapidly.

My theory is that imagination is going to be a huge commodity in the next decade, because everyone will be able to make movies - but only those with the imagination to create great fictional worlds will prosper.

But one has to wonder how long until A.I. can trace those worlds and make its own new ones, who will be just as interesting, if not more, to explore.

 

[Nickolaidas]

And that's why I brought up The Last of Us TV show because it has a large male audience.

Nnnnnnah, I don't agree with it being your gatcha. TloU show still had a straight male lead who plays the role of protector and kills a small army in the end in order to 'save' what he perceives to be 'family'. Quite a lot of masculine values prevent the show from being Acolyte levels of woke. A single 100% gay episode, Pedro Pascal and a few women in leadership roles in a post-apocalyptic setting isn't enough to deter that, especially when the first game is a favorite amongst gamers.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

104 pages and we haven't seen proper gameplay yet. Wow.

GAF hates it but can't stop talking about it.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Im not the one downgrading this game to sub Days Gone level of sales two/three years before its release mate and trying to start the trend that ND games now are expected to sell only 6 mil in a year to be a success for Sony. If this is not fear .. what is ... lol ...

In fact I really hope this game sells only 6mil in one whole year ... huge succes im sure.... lol.

It will sell twice that, most likely.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Days Gone sold 9 million copies. Sony would sign with blood those sales for every new IP, including this one. Anyone thinking this will sell better than TLOU 2 is delusional.

 

[DForce]

Nnnnnnah, I don't agree with it being your gatcha. TloU show still had a straight male lead who plays the role of protector and kills a small army in the end in order to 'save' what he perceives to be 'family'. Quite a lot of masculine values prevent the show from being Acolyte levels of woke. A single 100% gay episode, Pedro Pascal and a few women in leadership roles in a post-apocalyptic setting isn't enough to deter that, especially when the first game is a favorite amongst gamers.

And the goalpost keeps moving. lol

Two episodes featuring gay couples, other episodes where fans of the series claimed they made him soft isn't "woke enough."

But you're saying there, "levels to this"

I mean, I GUESS we could compare the sales between AC Shadows and the last three AC games, once Shadows is out for a year?

But AC Shadows is not on the same level as Dragon Age, but you want to use it as proof it if bombs.

This is how it goes.

If AC Shadows bombs, you're going to blame wokeness.
If it's successful, you're going to say it's based on a popular franchise.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, you're going to blame it on wokeness
If it's successful, say it's because Ghost of Tsushima was already popular.

But overall you're proving my point. These woke elements didn't do enough to "deter" the audience because..........the majority just doesn't care.

 

[Nickolaidas]

But you're saying there, "levels to this"

Of course there are levels. Just because you put Type A and Type B in Elden Ring's character creation instead of Male and Female doesn't automatically make it as woke as Dustborn.

Like I said - woke points. The more you amass, the bigger the chances the game will flop.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, I am going to blame it on gamers being sick and tired of the girlboss replacing the established male protagonist of the IP and pattern recognition. Although I honestly do not think the game will bomb. I think it'll do fairly well.

AC Shadows is a strange beast, because aside from Yasuke, I am not sure that there is anything 'woke' or 'offensive' about the game, though that may end up being enough and of itself.

the majority just doesn't care

But that majority seems to care more and more.

Also, a factor you seem to be ignoring, is the fact that shows like the Acolyte are also bad due to wokeness BEHIND the scenes. By hiring actors, showrunners and directors not because of merit, but because of sexuality and / or skin color. There's more to wokeness than just changing Male to Type A in the char select screen. It affects writing, design, staff and overall quality because you no longer hire the best people for the job.

I mean, Jesus Christ, AC Shadows is said to have unexperienced employees comprising 50% of the dev team. And I am willing to bet a lot of those are the 'progressive' types with the 'correct way of thinking'. How do you make a million dollar IP with people who never worked before? Was the collage photo of 200 Type B employees worth it that much?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I don't care if the teaser is the real time of the video game... And even if it is the real gameplay. I would have little interest in buying it. I dislike the characters in the teaser.

 

[evolve]

Of course there are levels. Just because you put Type A and Type B in Elden Ring's character creation instead of Male and Female doesn't automatically make it as woke as Dustborn.

Like I said - woke points. The more you amass, the bigger the chances the game will flop.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, I am going to blame it on gamers being sick and tired of the girlboss replacing the established male protagonist of the IP and pattern recognition. Although I honestly do not think the game will bomb. I think it'll do fairly well.

AC Shadows is a strange beast, because aside from Yasuke, I am not sure that there is anything 'woke' or 'offensive' about the game, though that may end up being enough and of itself.


But that majority seems to care more and more.

Also, a factor you seem to be ignoring, is the fact that shows like the Acolyte are also bad due to wokeness BEHIND the scenes. By hiring actors, showrunners and directors not because of merit, but because of sexuality and / or skin color. There's more to wokeness than just changing Male to Type A in the char select screen. It affects writing, design, staff and overall quality because you no longer hire the best people for the job.

I mean, Jesus Christ, AC Shadows is said to have unexperienced employees comprising 50% of the dev team. And I am willing to bet a lot of those are the 'progressive' types with the 'correct way of thinking'. How do you make a million dollar IP with people who never worked before? Was the collage photo of 200 Type B employees worth it that much?

How can you not use a different protag in the new Ghost game? It's not a replacement since it is set in a different era, literally 300+ years after...and the first game already had a "girlboss".

And let's not pretend like Jin Sakai was a great and charismatic character...he wasn't.

 

[DForce]

Of course there are levels. Just because you put Type A and Type B in Elden Ring's character creation instead of Male and Female doesn't automatically make it as woke as Dustborn.

Like I said - woke points. The more you amass, the bigger the chances the game will flop.

If Ghost of Yotei bombs, I am going to blame it on gamers being sick and tired of the girlboss replacing the established male protagonist of the IP and pattern recognition. Although I honestly do not think the game will bomb. I think it'll do fairly well.

AC Shadows is a strange beast, because aside from Yasuke, I am not sure that there is anything 'woke' or 'offensive' about the game, though that may end up being enough and of itself.

Wait.. wait.. no..

You already said earlier you wanted to wait to see how AC Shadows was going to perform, but now you're saying, "I'm not sure that there is anything "woke" or "offensive."

You wouldn't wait to see how AC Shadows performed, you would have said from the beginning it wouldn't be an issue for gamers.

But that majority seems to care more and more.

Also, a factor you seem to be ignoring, is the fact that shows like the Acolyte are also bad due to wokeness BEHIND the scenes. By hiring actors, showrunners and directors not because of merit, but because of sexuality and / or skin color. There's more to wokeness than just changing Male to Type A in the char select screen. It affects writing, design, staff and overall quality because you no longer hire the best people for the job.

Your average viewer knows nothing about that. Unless your name is up there with the likes of Quentin Tarantino, then your average consumer won't have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. This is why I mentioned sitcoms that always go into topics about race, sex, gender, etc. that don't turn viewers away. This is been going on for decades.

I mean, Jesus Christ, AC Shadows is said to have unexperienced employees comprising 50% of the dev team. And I am willing to bet a lot of those are the 'progressive' types with the 'correct way of thinking'. How do you make a million dollar IP with people who never worked before? Was the collage photo of 200 Type B employees worth it that much?

Your average gamer doesn't know anything about what happened behind the scenes, so that's irrelevant.

You can't say we should wait to see how AC performs to try to prove a point but then say it's not that woke to begin with. lol.

It's like you want to use it as an example only if it proves your point.