New MacBook Pro leaked by Apple itself in latest macOS update

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Can you change the plug on your hardrive or other USB accessories so they use a USB C plug or is that not how it works?
Yes, there are plenty of USB-C --> type A/B/micro/etc cables already on the market. So you can just replace the accessory cable rather than rely on an extra dongle/adapter in the chain.
 
No USB-A ports? Well I'm in the market for a new laptop (I currently have a 2013 Macbook Pro), might be best to see what deals are on the out going models.

I don't mind the lack of a SD slot, but I use USB-A all the time. I would have been happy with just one USB-A port. Plus, there's no escape key?! That's essential when dual booting.

The more I think about it the more this annoys me more than anything else. I use USB sticks all the fucking time. :/
 
The touch bar in particular has, since the rumor first came out, struck me as the obvious result of Jobs's claim that touchscreen laptops suck and touch surfaces should be horizontal. Now they have a mini touch screen that lays horizontal and can display whatever buttons they want whenever they want.
Honestly, if this were a Jobs product, the entire trackpad would be a touchscreen. Not just the F-keys. That would be actual innovation. Not just removing an essential row of the keyboard and some ports as well as essential features (MagSafe). We can PM about this if you want to discuss further. Not trying to turn this is into a Jobs would have... thread.

Hell, that might even be the case we haven't seen the trackpad yet
 
Difference in weight and thin-ness between the 13" mbp and macbook isn't really that big.

I thought that and then I replaced my 2012 MBA with a 2016 MB and it is substantially lighter and easier to carry. I can only speak for myself but it was honestly a huge surprise how different it is.
 
The people complaining about lack of SD slot baffle me. Yes, it sucks losing a port but if you're on an actual professional shoot (Whether you're a DIT or whatever) a dongle is going to be least of your worries.

What actual professional camera shoots on an SD card?


Cameras like the AMIRA use CFast cards
Blackmagic uses SSD

I mean I guess the C100 uses SDXC cards but if you're not shooting on a Ninja Blade (which uses SSD) then it's basically moot.



I'm weirdly ok with having USB-C. Hopefully it's less finicky than the Thunderbolt ports

Uh a shitload of DSLR cameras?

My 2016 Nikon D500 does for one. In fact it doesn't even support CF only SD (UHS-II) and XQD. I guess it's not a "Pro" camera.
 
So no Thunderbolt ports? Most of the current audio interfaces are Tbolt, so this is going to cause problems for audio work, or at the least an annoying adapter.


Yeah, but else is it going to do? Display current music tracks, new email notifications, battery level. It's just a gimmick that will likely end up repeating information that could be easily viewed on screen.

1) action keys with custom icons that could switch contextually as you switch the active app, and also change as you hold down modifier keys (Command, Option, Control)
2) scrubber bar for videos, iTunes, video editing, etc
3) move document metadata to toolbar to save display space – i.e. Photoshop moves Info pane information there, maybe even color palette selection

Not a gimmick at all. It allows more space on your display for content, it makes finding menu shortcuts easier due to more vibrant and contextual icons, and it allows for a touchscreen editing area. And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure inventive developers can think of other uses.
 
So no Thunderbolt ports? Most of the current audio interfaces are Tbolt, so this is going to cause problems for audio work, or at the least an annoying adapter.

TB3 uses the USB-C connector, just like TB1/2 used miniDP, so the USB-C ports probably double as TB3. You'll need an adapter, but that's on Intel in this case, since they changed the plug.
 
I can think of so many great uses for that touch bar in regards to application integration. Hell using it for the scrubber on audio applications alone is great.
 
I can think of so many great uses for that touch bar in regards to application integration. Hell using it for the scrubber on audio applications alone is great.

It could be used for entering characters that aren't on the keyboard. So maybe in some French context you'd have accented e's and such showing up as the displayed characters.

Or perhaps you'd have a colour selector, maybe with a pinch to zoom thing going on, where you can choose colours while your main screen is dedicated to showing how the different colours look in context (images, apps, documents etc).

Most of the other ideas I'm thinking up are using it mostly as extra screen space. I'm never that hard up for screen space, but maybe it'd be nice from a design perspective to have a place to put secondary stuff and let the main screen be more clean and focused. Maybe the tab bar could be on the touch strip.
 
It could be used for entering characters that aren't on the keyboard. So maybe in some French context you'd have accented e's and such showing up, the displayed characters.

Or perhaps you'd have a colour selector, maybe with a pinch to zoom thing going on, where you can choose colours while your main screen is dedicated to showing how the different colours look in context (images, apps, documents etc).

Most of the other ideas I'm thinking up are using it mostly as extra screen space. I'm never that hard up for screen space, but maybe it'd be nice from a design perspective to have a place to put secondary stuff and let the main screen be more clean and focused. For Maybe the tab bar could be on the touch strip.

It could be the universal macOS tabs when in full screen as well.
 
The touch ID is cool and all, but it looks exactly the same as the current MBP. They've been using that design since I was in like 8th grade. I'll stick to my 2015 MBP.
 
I'm one of those suckers who got the "Macbook" with one USB-C slot for both charging, and anything else. Let me tell you it is actually fucking awesome. Yes, I have a dongle for everything from HDMI to USB to SD card slot. But guess what? I maybe bust that thing out once every 2 weeks. 99% of the time I'm just so glad that it's thin and light has a beautiful retina screen.

Portability and lightness is fucking important when it comes to laptops. Unlike phones, we're talking on the order of entire lbs being shaved off the weight of these devices through miniaturization and convergence. My Macbook is 2 pounds in weight, it's actually lighter than my iPad 3 and about half as heavy as my Dell laptop with an NVidia GPU and 17" screen. I carry this tiny thing in my bag to and from work every day and I barely feel it.

Plus, docking the Macbook is a one-connection deal. One connection to a dongle and I'm using an HDMI monitor, ethernet cable, and charging.

There's so much progress to be made in laptop miniaturization that I can't believe people are whining about ports going away, honestly, and I'm someone who railed on (and will continue to rail on) Apple for taking the headphone port out of the iPhone. There are shaving a fraction of a millimeter of length kind of improvements, and there are shaving 2 pounds of weight kind of improvements.

I guess that's you, but I am literally baffled at the fetishization of weight loss in a fucking professional laptop like this. I'd add a goddamned pound to my laptop for more functionality. I really don't care about the weight and thinness. For the most part when I'm carrying it around it's in a bag with all my other work shit so a bit more weight isn't doing much for me.
 
With the SD, HDMI, and USB slots I wouldn't even trade my 15" 2015 for a new one.

I've been desperate for a new MacBook Pro for over a year now... patiently waiting for rumors, announcements, refreshes, anything.

But...

Almost all of the rumors have me sitting here asking "why, as a professional who uses Mac products, is this good for me?" The ultra-low travel keyboard from the MacBook is probably my biggest complaint. I'm willing to buy dongles for USB-C... It's annoying but isn't something that would make me really not buy a computer... But.. goddam, that terrible keyboard in the MacBook... ugh. In an ultra mobile, iPad competitor like the MacBook, it's fine and it doesn't bother me, I wouldn't buy the device, but I get how somebody who wants an ultra-light, iPad competitor but with a full OS and physical keyboard might prefer super-slim over a better typing experience. But, on a full size computer, I'm not sold on the benefits.

I'm hoping Apple sells me on the benefits of these changes, versus their salesmanship on the iPhone. Like, "We removed the universally agreed upon greatest laptop keyboard on earth and replaced it with one with mixed reviews because this, this, this and this." If they say, "Because courage" or "Because striking, beautiful design..." I'll be dissatisfied. If they say, "BEcause we can cram 4 more hours of battery life, and drop a 0.8lbs, and it has these unique new features..." then I'll be open to them.

With the bar at the top, I don't really get the benefit yet but I'm willing to keep an open mind. I like the immediacy of hitting my audio buttons, and using escape in virtually every application I use regularly... So I'm keeping an open mind to it. I don't see how it's much of an improvement from function keys now, especially when you can easily map function keys to different functions in all of the applications that I use regularly, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

But I really want Apple to sell me on these design decisions. Don't tell me about courage or how forward thinking you are. Show me why it benefits me as a power user of your devices. OTherwise, I'm like you, I might buy a 2015 MacBook Pro instead, something I held off on doing for a year.

*edit*

If it's not the new low-travel keyboard, then I'll probably buy it.
 
umm..I think i saw this one before

L9TzQzB.jpg
 
I've been desperate for a new MacBook Pro for over a year now... patiently waiting for rumors, announcements, refreshes, anything.

But...

Almost all of the rumors have me sitting here asking "why, as a professional who uses Mac products, is this good for me?" The ultra-low travel keyboard from the MacBook is probably my biggest complaint. I'm willing to buy dongles for USB-C... It's annoying but isn't something that would make me really not buy a computer... But.. goddam, that terrible keyboard in the MacBook... ugh. In an ultra mobile, iPad competitor like the MacBook, it's fine and it doesn't bother me, I wouldn't buy the device, but I get how somebody who wants an ultra-light, iPad competitor but with a full OS and physical keyboard might prefer super-slim over a better typing experience. But, on a full size computer, I'm not sold on the benefits.

I'm hoping Apple sells me on the benefits of these changes, versus their salesmanship on the iPhone. Like, "We removed the universally agreed upon greatest laptop keyboard on earth and replaced it with one with mixed reviews because this, this, this and this." If they say, "Because courage" or "Because striking, beautiful design..." I'll be dissatisfied. If they say, "BEcause we can cram 4 more hours of battery life, and drop a 0.8lbs, and it has these unique new features..." then I'll be open to them.

With the bar at the top, I don't really get the benefit yet but I'm willing to keep an open mind. I like the immediacy of hitting my audio buttons, and using escape in virtually every application I use regularly... So I'm keeping an open mind to it. I don't see how it's much of an improvement from function keys now, especially when you can easily map function keys to different functions in all of the applications that I use regularly, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

But I really want Apple to sell me on these design decisions. Don't tell me about courage or how forward thinking you are. Show me why it benefits me as a power user of your devices. OTherwise, I'm like you, I might buy a 2015 MacBook Pro instead, something I held off on doing for a year.

*edit*

If it's not the new low-travel keyboard, then I'll probably buy it.
It's at the bolded point in your post that I look back at the OP and notice that there are no F or function keys on the keyboard...

Yeah, I'm going to need to see how they pitch this.
 
This is form over function at its finest.

The existing Fn keys are discrete hardware keys that only serve 1 to 2 functions. They don't need to be hardware keys. What's the point? You're not using them like you use letter/number keys so there's no issue with ergonomics. It's a waste to dedicate 1 to 2 functions to physical buttons that get used every once in a while. Some don't get used at all, if you're the average person.

But a touchscreen slab taking up the same area has any number of uses. Not only can it display changing icons, but it can act as something other than buttons. The Magic Touchbar is function that dictates form, and I for one welcome our new toolbar overlord.
 
Form over function implies either fewer functions or reduced functionality in favor of style. How does introducing TouchID and a reconfigurable bar result in either?
Lack of tactile feedback when trying to hit those keys now. Possibly needing to activate or switch their functionality before using them because they might not be in the state you want them in. Those are two examples how the functional ease of use has been made worse. Also, nobody knows how this will work with Windows for those who dual boot.
 
I'm sure the touch strip will be totally customizable.

Let's look at the Function keys. They're literally only on current Mac keyboards because in the '90s Apple was pressured to include them for compatibility with office software since a lot of those programs used function keys on Windows versions. So to make the transition to the Mac version easier, Mac keyboards gained function keys. It's basically a cross-platform compatibility thing.

Eventually Apple decided they needed to take a back seat and set the default function of them to perform other system things like changing brightness, volume, controlling music, LaunchPad, Dashboard, Exposé/Mission Control. You can of course switch it around so they're F-keys first and controls second if you want.

And yes, they can be really useful. With some utilities like BTT you can set them up to do other things in apps that don't use them at all anyway. In my case I have them set up to launch applications when I hold Shift.

But now what Apple is giving us is something that will be so much more useful. They'll give you F-key functionality when needed. They'll give you system controls when needed. But they'll also give you so many other contextually sensitive functions. For instance, firstly, the default controls. Maybe they might display the system controls by default, but press and hold down Fn and boom, they change to F-keys in apps where F-keys are needed. But in apps like, say, Apple designed apps like Safari for instance, they might show a bunch of buttons for most used functions like New Tab, Close Tab, Show History, Bookmarks, Tab Overview, etc. All with nice looking icons maybe. Other apps will show other things. It'll be on a per-app basis. And by default it'll just show normal Function keys.

The part that gets me excited is that this could be a preview of technology that might come to the iPhone. A Touch ID sensor in the screen instead of its own button. Maybe a hint at removing the Home button from the iPhone? Maybe? I dunno. Maybe.

As long as it's customizable as shit. I hope BTT does some stuff with it. If not some other dev.

I bet it'll also use haptic feedback when the "buttons" are "pressed".

I just hope, and assume, that the section that the Power button is on will still have some physical aspect to it. We need a button that can interrupt the system no matter what even if it's frozen completely. As well as power it on without needing to draw power just to check the status of the button. So I assume it'll have a normal button hidden under the strip that will detect the press and hold of the Power button. Well, unless they've moved the Power button elsewhere. Ever since the Retina and Air, the Eject key was replaced with a Power key and the normal Power button was removed. It used to be above the keyboard. I assume they wouldn't put one back there again. (Especially since we'd see it in those leaked shots.)

Imagine if they figured out a way to make it so low power that they actually integrate it into the wireless stand alone keyboards as well.

I cannot wait for Thursday to finally see what this is all about. If anything the keynote is going to be fun to watch.
 
Lack of tactile feedback when trying to hit those keys now. Possibly needing to activate or switch their functionality before using them because they might not be in the state you want them in. Those are two examples how the functional ease of use has been made worse. Also, nobody knows how this will work with Windows for those who dual boot.

That is one example and one possibility, but it does not indicate that it has fewer functions or reduced functionality overall. I don't see how it is sacrificing functionality for form. It is sacrificing some functionality for additional functionality.
 
The existing Fn keys are discrete hardware keys that only serve 1 to 2 functions. They don't need to be hardware keys. What's the point? You're not using them like you use letter/number keys so there's no issue with ergonomics. It's a waste to dedicate 1 to 2 functions to physical buttons that get used every once in a while. Some don't get used at all, if you're the average person.

But a touchscreen slab taking up the same area has any number of uses. Not only can it display changing icons, but it can act as something other than buttons. The Magic Touchbar is function that dictates form, and I for one welcome our new toolbar overlord.

Form over function implies either fewer functions or reduced functionality in favor of style. How does introducing TouchID and a reconfigurable bar result in either?

I'm talking about touch screen over keys. They should have made the keys just have OLED screens on it. Pressing on a capacitive bar is going to suck. Absolutely no button feedback. I can press function keys blind. I can't with this.
 
That is one example and one possibility, but it does not indicate that it has fewer functions or reduced functionality overall. I don't see how it is sacrificing functionality for form. It is sacrificing some functionality for additional functionality.
Form over functionality also means making things more difficult to use as well. So even if you technically can do ask the same things, if it is more complicated to do that also fails under the complaint of form over functionality.
 
Form over functionality also means making things more difficult to use as well. So even if you technically can do ask the same things, if it is more complicated to do that also fails under the complaint of form over functionality.

No, it doesn't mean making things difficult. It means making difficult for no purpose besides style. Two factor authentication makes things more difficult, it is not sacrificing function over form. If you can do the same things and much more, it does not fall under the complaint of form over functionality.

If they replace a tactile button with a Touch ID sensor with haptic feedback, it makes it more difficult for some people to touch the button but it allows a lot more functions. Nobody would argue that it is form over functionality.

Two Words is arguing about putting OLED tactile buttons--I disagree that it would offer the same additional functionality. For instance, you won't be able to use the bar as a slider for media editing. You couldn't have messages on there (that don't look fugly because the screens aren't connected).
 
I'm one of those suckers who got the "Macbook" with one USB-C slot for both charging, and anything else. Let me tell you it is actually fucking awesome. Yes, I have a dongle for everything from HDMI to USB to SD card slot. But guess what? I maybe bust that thing out once every 2 weeks. 99% of the time I'm just so glad that it's thin and light has a beautiful retina screen.

Portability and lightness is fucking important when it comes to laptops. Unlike phones, we're talking on the order of entire lbs being shaved off the weight of these devices through miniaturization and convergence. My Macbook is 2 pounds in weight, it's actually lighter than my iPad 3 and about half as heavy as my Dell laptop with an NVidia GPU and 17" screen. I carry this tiny thing in my bag to and from work every day and I barely feel it.

Plus, docking the Macbook is a one-connection deal. One connection to a dongle and I'm using an HDMI monitor, ethernet cable, and charging.

There's so much progress to be made in laptop miniaturization that I can't believe people are whining about ports going away, honestly, and I'm someone who railed on (and will continue to rail on) Apple for taking the headphone port out of the iPhone. There are shaving a fraction of a millimeter of length kind of improvements, and there are shaving 2 pounds of weight kind of improvements.

lmao at comparing your Macbook to your 17" Dell then reaching for conclusions. A more modern laptop like the HP EliteBook shows up Apple's compromises:
ArsTechnica said:
Look and feel

I originally described the EliteBook as “a MacBook with two ports” and that description is accurate in a lot of ways. It’s a very thin aluminum and glass laptop, and it relies exclusively on USB Type-C ports for charging and connecting to wired accessories.

But HP’s machine makes a different set of compromises than the MacBook. Where Apple’s design sacrifices functionality in the name of making the laptop as thin and light as possible—its single port, its muddy 480p webcam, its low-travel keyboard and trackpad—the EliteBook improves on all of those features, making the laptop a little heavier (2.14 pounds vs. 2.06 for the MacBook) and larger (11.5 inches long and 8.23 inches wide compared to 11.04 inches long and 7.74 inches wide) in the process. The MacBook is thicker than the EliteBook at its thickest point, but the MacBook’s body tapers where the EliteBook’s body doesn’t.

so shaving 0.08 pounds of weight kind of 'improvement'. I don't think that's worth it.
 
The people complaining about lack of SD slot baffle me. Yes, it sucks losing a port but if you're on an actual professional shoot (Whether you're a DIT or whatever) a dongle is going to be least of your worries.

What actual professional camera shoots on an SD card?

Cameras like the AMIRA use CFast cards
Blackmagic uses SSD

I mean I guess the C100 uses SDXC cards but if you're not shooting on a Ninja Blade (which uses SSD) then it's basically moot.



I'm weirdly ok with having USB-C. Hopefully it's less finicky than the Thunderbolt ports


This is denial at its best now.

sd card is a widespread format in any news/production/marketing agency.

They're just going one step further from the professional world (which they abandoned already on a software level).
 
No, it doesn't mean making things difficult. It means making difficult for no purpose besides style. Two factor authentication makes things more difficult, it is not sacrificing function over form. If you can do the same things and much more, it does not fall under the complaint of form over functionality.

If they replace a tactile button with a Touch ID sensor with haptic feedback, it makes it more difficult for some people to touch the button but it allows a lot more functions. Nobody would argue that it is form over functionality.

Two Words is arguing about putting OLED tactile buttons--I disagree that it would offer the same additional functionality. For instance, you won't be able to use the bar as a slider for media editing. You couldn't have messages on there (that don't look fugly because the screens aren't connected).

As I said, form over functionality.
 
As I said, form over functionality.

Please explain how the ability to act as a slider and act as buttons and provide information is not an increase in functionality. Your proposal reduces functionality, and it definitely is more complicated to have 17 individual mechanical OLED screens, which only reduces overall functionality.
 
lmao at comparing your Macbook to your 17" Dell then reaching for conclusions. A more modern laptop like the HP EliteBook shows up Apple's compromises:


so shaving 0.08 pounds of weight kind of 'improvement'. I don't think that's worth it.
Uh, what are you babbling about again? The 13" MacBook Pro is 3.57 pounds. The 2016 Macbook is 2.03 pounds, a huge reduction. It's also .14 inches thick vs 0.95 for the Macbook Pro. Anyone who honestly says these differences aren't noticeable has not felt the difference for themselves, I'm sorry. It's amazing to curl up with this thing, it's amazing on the train, it's amazing on planes, it's fantastic for work too. I also don't hate being able to charge with the same USB-C cable between my phone and my laptop. That has been super-convenient -- every damn thing should be USB-C.

The 2016 Macbook is even lighter than the Air by nearly a pound (the Air is 2.96 pounds), and yet it was able to pack in an upgrade to a retina screen, all because of externalizing the ports. It's a great accomplishment in economical hardware design and honestly it even performs really well. I love this fuckin' thing to death.

There honestly aren't even substantial performance differences between the Macbook Pro 13 and the Macbook 2016 that I can actually detect in daily use and I use both a Macbook 2016 (personal) and 13" MB Pro (work) every day. Given that I bust out the port dongle maybe once every two weeks or so, and the fact that the performance isn't even noticeably different for my use cases (writing, programming, streaming, and internet) I don't have any idea what I'd gain paying more money for native ports on a huge device. That feels like a lose/lose proposition.

So, yeah, stand by my post 100%, and I'm really happy to see heavy, thick-ass "powerful laptops" (which always end up being disappointing, power-wise, anyway) going out of style.
 
Please explain how the ability to act as a slider and act as buttons and provide information is not an increase in functionality. Your proposal reduces functionality, and it definitely is more complicated to have 17 individual mechanical OLED screens, which only reduces overall functionality.

Sliders are just a slicker way of representing an option. The lack of tactile feedback hurts functionality. Let's not act like we've been needing a new way to display data on a computer. Hell, the esc key is suddenly a second class key now.
 
No they aren't, they're an analog and much quicker + more precise way to do it compared to key presses, especially for things like volume, brightness, or scrubbing through media files.

What are you talking about? This slider is not going to be more accurate. It is a digital input as well. A button press is going to be more precise than trying to slightly move a slider.
 
A 3.5mm jack. I guess being brave only applies to the devices you'll sell millions of and can rake in money from licensing fees.
 
Uh, what are you babbling about again? The previous MacBook Pro, which was my Mac laptop before this one, was 3.57 pounds for a 13". The 2016 Macbook is 2.03 pounds, a huge reduction. It's also .14 inches thick vs 0.95 for the Macbook Pro. Anyone who honestly says these differences aren't noticeable has not felt the difference.

The 2016 Macbook is even lighter than the Air by nearly a pound (2.96 pounds), and yet it was able to pack in a retina screen, all because of externalizing the ports. It's a great accomplishment in economical hardware design that performs great. I love this fuckin' thing to death.

There honestly aren't even substantial performance differences between the Macbook Pro 13 and the Macbook 2016 that I can actually detect in daily use and I use both a Macbook 2016 (personal) and 13" MB Pro (work) every day.

So, yeah, stand by my post 100%.

Your post is nonsense. You are mistaking the options that Apple presents as the only alternatives conceivable. The choice is not between creating a 2.03 lb Macbook and a 3.57 lb MBP. The choice was between a 2.06 lb Macbook with one port and a 2.14 Macbook with two ports**. Apple chose to save 0.08 lb at the expense of one more port.

**
assuming all else stays the same, which in the real engineering world they won't, but we're discussing hypotheticals so who knows
 
Sliders are just a slicker way of representing an option. The lack of tactile feedback hurts functionality. Let's not act like we've been needing a new way to display data on a computer.

Additional functionality can always be welcome. Touch ID is just a slicker way of representing an option. I personally don't use the keys except for volume and brightness, and sliders can handle those functions better. I always forget the keyboard shortcut to activate Grab, and having an icon that I can press would increase functionality for me. I do think the ability to have notifications simultaneously present and not hidden but not take up screen real estate can increase functionality. If you are watching a movie, playing a game, or in a full-screen app and you get a notification/e-mail, for instance.
 
What are you talking about? This slider is not going to be more accurate. It is a digital input as well. A button press is going to be more precise than trying to slightly move a slider.

He's referring to how it's faster to use positional controls than relative ones - e.g. if you use a mouse you can zip to a specific point on a screen very quickly, while if you use a keyboard to control a mouse cursor you have to hold it or tap it continuously until it reaches where you want it to go. In terms of volume controls, it's similarly easier to quickly change up and down or go to a specific point (e.g. halfway) with a physical (or digital) slider than it is to press the "volume up" / "volume down" buttons. That sort of thing.
 
He's referring to how it's faster to use positional controls than relative ones - e.g. if you use a mouse you can zip to a specific point on a screen very quickly, while if you use a keyboard to control a mouse cursor you have to hold it or tap it continuously until it reaches where you want it to go. In terms of volume controls, it's similarly easier to quickly change up and down or go to a specific point (e.g. halfway) with a physical (or digital) slider than it is to press the "volume up" / "volume down" buttons. That sort of thing.

I was contending his point that the slider is more precise. That simply isn't true.
 
Your post is nonsense. You are mistaking the options that Apple presents as the only alternatives conceivable. The choice is not between creating a 2.03 lb Macbook and a 3.57 lb MBP. The choice was between a 2.06 lb Macbook with one port and a 2.14 Macbook with two ports**. Apple chose to save 0.08 lb at the expense of one more port.

**
assuming all else stays the same, which in the real engineering world they won't, but we're discussing hypotheticals so who knows
So let me get this straight. Comparing rumored estimates of what hypothetical non-existent machine specs might have been, in theory, to actual machines that exist is NOT nonsense, even though you admit that in practice these estimates would likely turn out to be invalid.

But comparing the specs of actual machines that exist right now in the market and concretely demonstrate the benefits of these design decisions, THAT is nonsense?

Welp. I'll cherish our time together.
 
I was contending his point that the slider is more precise. That simply isn't true.

But you at least agree that it provides a better option, when used in combination with key presses (which are still available) compared to simply button presses on their own. If you want to move to a middle, end or beginning of a song or document, the option of a slider provides more functionality.
 
I really wanna upgrade, my 2011 MBP is chugging along just fine, especially after I threw a SSD in there. I really liked the Retina Macbook but can't live with just one port.
 
So they remove the function keys but they still won't remove or simplify fn + control + option/alt + command + shift. Those are always what annoyed me most about the mac keyboards -- so many of these modifier keys with no clear meanings. I can never remember when I need to use which ones for which shortcuts.

Hopefully they'll get to removing or simplifying them eventually.
 
So let me get this straight. Comparing rumored estimates of what hypothetical non-existent machine specs might have been, in theory, to actual machines that exist is NOT nonsense, even though you admit that in practice these estimates would likely turn out to be invalid.

But comparing the specs of actual machines that exist right now in the market and concretely demonstrate the benefits of these design decisions, THAT is nonsense?

Welp. I'll cherish our time together.

No you got that wrong again. We're comparing Apple's Macbook with one port to an actual machine existing in the market right now that Ars Technica describes as the "Macbook with two ports".
 
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