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Judging by Gonzalo leak, I seriously doubt PS5 (or Xbox) is Navi21 (which seems to actually be "fat" Navi - 5900XT.
TBiddy
Member
That's kinda sad, dude. At least be man enough to tag me, if you need to team up with your buddy against me.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
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Imtjnotu
Member
didnt hear anywhere in that video about ps5 being stronger was related to lockhart
TeamGhobad
Banned
it was a speculation on my part.
demigod
Member
I "rarely" tag anyone, probably done it once or twice. Stop acting like I didn't put your name in there.
Dabaus
Banned
I said this in another thread but it still applies here:
Wonder if Scarlet's lead designer leaving MS for Intel also has something to do with this? Surely this cancellation and him leaving arent just coincidences? Its also insane how him leaving doesnt even so much as have a thread here, or anywhere else for that matter. Is there just that much apathy and indifference for xbox that no one even cares? Imagine Cerny leaving Playstaion the same week we started to hear rumors that the next xbox was more powerful. Gaf would break.
Like, nobody finds it odd or strange that the same week we get rumblings that the PS5 Might be more powerful than the next xbox that the lead architect leaves a little convenient? Then the following week Microsft drops the rumored 2 SKU approach? Hell maybe they fired the guy? He didnt just up and leave the Scarlett team because his work is done. If anything its back to the drawing board because they now have to rework anaconda to be somewhat affordable.
Wonder if Scarlet's lead designer leaving MS for Intel also has something to do with this? Surely this cancellation and him leaving arent just coincidences? Its also insane how him leaving doesnt even so much as have a thread here, or anywhere else for that matter. Is there just that much apathy and indifference for xbox that no one even cares? Imagine Cerny leaving Playstaion the same week we started to hear rumors that the next xbox was more powerful. Gaf would break.
Like, nobody finds it odd or strange that the same week we get rumblings that the PS5 Might be more powerful than the next xbox that the lead architect leaves a little convenient? Then the following week Microsft drops the rumored 2 SKU approach? Hell maybe they fired the guy? He didnt just up and leave the Scarlett team because his work is done. If anything its back to the drawing board because they now have to rework anaconda to be somewhat affordable.
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Munki
Member
John Sell left MS in May.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
We've gone full-blown X-files up in here.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I tried to tell you guys like 1 million times how dumb it was to have a Lockhart console. But some people really wanted to believe that you could of had a 1080p console and have 8 TFs of power just disappear due to a resolution change.
John Sell was SOC designer. He was an engineer who designed Scarlett SOC and now that is done, and it is done, he can pursue other venues. Similar to Jim Keller leaving AMD before Zen was released.
Cerny is PS5 architect, he is not one designing chip itself nor he is designing motherboard. Completely different responsabilities and titles.
SonGoku
Member
I just corrected you since you used the 400mm2 estimate instead of 380 mm2
My baseline expectation is still 64CUs total - 56 enabled ~11TF at ~380mm2
and that makes no sense... 56CUs at 1540Mhz would not only be more power efficient but also more powerful
Jury's still out on PS5 price point and the PS5 has the advantage of 6nm being available in the near future which the X did not have and will likely never be shrunk with Scarlet replacing it.
380mm2
56CUs at 1540Mhz = 11TF
$500
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Evilms
Banned
even it would be a pain in the ass for developers to make real next-gen games for both the weakest and most powerful console a real waste of time and resources.
LordOfChaos
Member
Besides that, Tensor cores are programmable, they're essentially to GPU shaders what GPU shaders are to CPU cores, really fast at lower precision math. DLSS is enabled by the same tensor cores that assist in RT performance, so if not used for ray tracing they could be used in other assistive ways. They're also good at inferencing, so it might be interesting to see a game that used that for something.
Granted we don't know if the Sony/MS dedicated hardware is anything like tensor cores.
Negotiator
Member
That engineer leaving MS is nothing worrying IMHO, it's just that he's not a cult personality like Cerny (although AFAIK Cerny is more of a PR spokesperson, since he's not the one who designed the PS4 APU, it was actually an obscure Japanese guy).
I guess MS didn't like the market's reaction to XB1 SAD edition, so they had to axe Lockhart.
Still though, Lockhart with a BD-ROM drive ($20) at $299 would have been a worthy proposition for VFM consumers.
Anaconda $499 vs PS5 $499 is a no brainer for most people, Sony will most likely have the upper hand due to brand awareness (minus the US maybe).
The GPU baseline is not that important, what's important is making games relatively quickly. This gen we have to wait 7-8 years for games like RDR2 and TLOU2 to come out. Are you happy with that?
Don't be surprised if next-gen games take even longer to make... y'all have been warned.
I guess MS didn't like the market's reaction to XB1 SAD edition, so they had to axe Lockhart.
Still though, Lockhart with a BD-ROM drive ($20) at $299 would have been a worthy proposition for VFM consumers.
Anaconda $499 vs PS5 $499 is a no brainer for most people, Sony will most likely have the upper hand due to brand awareness (minus the US maybe).
The GPU baseline is not that important, what's important is making games relatively quickly. This gen we have to wait 7-8 years for games like RDR2 and TLOU2 to come out. Are you happy with that?
Don't be surprised if next-gen games take even longer to make... y'all have been warned.
Negotiator
Member
Regarding Tensor cores (which are different from RT cores), I think Navi will most likely support INT8 acceleration for deep learning/neural networks (aka next-gen AI) by using the exact same CUs.
Kinda like what PS4 Pro does with RPM/2xFP16.
TeamGhobad
Banned
that has nothing to do with hardware
Negotiator
Member
Really?
The more horsepower you have, the higher the baseline is and the longer AAA video games take to make. Don't you see it?
Mind you, both RDR2 and TLOU2 are games with 1080p assets. Be prepared for even long game dev cycles in the true 4K (asset) era/9th gen.
TeamGhobad
Banned
sure but games taking 7years to make is a design choice or lack thereof (anthem). you can still pop out games every 3-4years and most do.
demigod
Member
Yeah I remember, there was a cop around here that kept insisting that devs are fine with scaling down.
Negotiator
Member
Sure it's possible to release "new" games every year if you asset flip (Ubisoft does it a lot, ND tried it once):
I knew it from the first time I played it back in 2017 that the jungle textures/assets seemed awfully "familiar" for some reason and well, there's your explanation (copy-paste assets)... there's no magic solution.
You wouldn't be happy if RDR2/TLOU2 had PS3-era textures, would you?
That's why I'm optimistic about 60 fps becoming common next-gen. If true 4K and 30 fps becomes the new baseline, then you need to set your expectations straight.
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Munki
Member
The SOC (ZEN 2) was finalised a long time ago, John Sell was the chief architect of the Scarlett SOC.
Honestly we should have much stronger rumors than that. If big studios have dev kits, believe me multiple outlets would coolaborated the story already. SOC engineer leaving after designing 3 chips is nothing new.
TeamGhobad
Banned
sure as technology advances and games will become more complex they will take longer to make buts its not just about graphics. I have no problem with this. I actually like fewer but better games and then indie games can fill the gap. CP77 is about 7 years of dev time and look how amazing it looks, its worth it.
oh and i expect 4k60 being the new standard in games.
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SonGoku
Member
Negotiator
Member
Actually the majority of the dev budget goes to graphics (artistic work, hiring expensive actors, mo-cap) and stuff like that. Coding/gameplay/AI design is miniscule in comparison.
That's the price of AAA(A) video games and it's only gonna get worse, unless a miracle happens (AI making 4K assets instead of human workers?).
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Sorta makes me wonder what makes people believe in things that are obviously terrible ideas. Are they astroturfers? It's like someone being pro TV,TV,TV when MS first annouced the Xbox One and those crazy rules that they came up with.
I can't believe the last Uncharted game was made in one year!!!! CRAZY!!
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bitbydeath
Member
Also Death Stranding taking just three years is incredible. Gotta be engine related. Re-using existing assets but still incredible.
SonGoku
Member
It would be easier to downgrade to lockart from snek/ps5 than the other way around
That said, i never thought lockart was a good idea
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I don't plenty of games will go effect mostly RT crazy. If RT brings top end NVIDIA cards to its knees next generation consoles will take a bigger hit. There will be more 60fps games just because smaller AA games will have so much extra juice it will be trivial. Big expensive AAA single player games especially open world will still be 30fps with lots of RT effects.
Gamernyc78
Banned
I made a thread here when it happened but article specifically stated his departure didnt affect Scarlet as all things were all ready done on his end. There were also threads in reset so idk what your getting at.
Chief architect of the Xbox One, Scorpio and Scarlet
https://googleness.com/chile/the-chief-architect-of-the-project-scarlett-leaves-microsoft/ https://newsvire.com/intel-hires-ex-amd-fellow-xbox-chip-designer-john-sell-to-oversee-chip-security/ John Sell worked for Microsoft 14 years. He was the chief architect of the Xbox One, Scorpio and...
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TeamGhobad
Banned
4x cpu power, hw rt. cp77 will run 4k60 on nexgen consoles dammit!
Negotiator
Member
I agree that would be ideal but we have not seen many console games offer many options. Honestly I was disappointed to hear both consoles will have RT hardware. I rather have more CUs for performance. I just seen to many times a new fancy effect becomes over used killing performance in games. I just don't think AMD and the console makers can come up with RT that is half as efficient as nvidia. So the effects get used and bye bye fps. It is just to soon for it RT is several generations of GPUs away from being worth while IMO. If the consoles were 2022 using second or third generation RT hardware I feel a lot better. Just remember cyberpunk used a flipping titan to demo RT effects.
demigod
Member
What on earth does the US election have anything to do with consoles?
FrostyJ93
Member
Markwting cost a lot of moeny during this period.
demigod
Member
I was not aware of that, thanks.
He is talking advertising costs especially on TV will cost more because of the election adds flooding the market taking up primetime add space. I don't think it matters most likely the consoles will be supply constrainted until January 2021 or later. No need to have a huge marketing push till supply catches up.
SonGoku
Member
Noice now do one with that Australian episode in which a snek bit his dik and he wanted to suck it, the venom i mean...
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bitbydeath
Member
I think it’s the reason why PS5 was rumoured to be pushed from 2019 - 2020.
It’s the only bit of hardware that isn’t available this year.
demigod
Member
I will double dip on TLoU2 if needed.
SonGoku
Member
idk about that many devs already made 4k assets and downscaled to 1080p, RT will reduce time invested hand baking reflections (see Control vs SpiderMan puddle gate)
Im interested how devs will manage SSD, CPU and RAM to create bigger, more immersive, interactive and persistent worlds.
GPU cycles can easily be maxed out at 30 fps pushing next gen effects alone
Burrito Bandito
Banned
i would gladly pay $499 for a console. i dont get the obsession with $399. With inflation, most consoles to ever release were above $399.
idk, to me the extra $100 is well worth the extra quality and fidelity.
idk, to me the extra $100 is well worth the extra quality and fidelity.
SonGoku
Member
I wonder if Sony will remaster PS4 games considering PS5 bc+
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