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[Xyphie]

nVidia had some low-end GPUs in the Fermi era with mixed density chips.

Problem with mixing memory chip sizes is you have non-uniform bandwidth access. Say you have a hypothetical 256-bit card with 6x 8Gbit modules and 2x 16Gbit modules for a 10GB total running at 10GT/s.

You can access 8GB of RAM at 320GB/s but the remaining 2GB can only be accessed at 80GB/s. Might be fine on a console since you use the memory for non-graphics tasks.

 

[Marlenus]

The use of different sizes chips is suspect to say the least, has there even been a gpu with asymmetric memory chips config?
2GB chips are supposed to replace 1GB, costs won't be much higher to justify this config

@Proelite You are welcome to chip in

Nvidia did a non uniform memory config on a gpu a few generations ago (not the 970). Can't remember which card but pretty sure it has 3GB of ram with with a 128bit bus or some other nonsense. I want to say it was a 6xx or 7xx series but I had no luck with Google. I know Anandtech reviewed it though.

 

[SlimySnake]

HBM memory is more expensive than GDDR and does not perform better in gaming than gddr, I strongly doubt that Sony will choose this choice which will only increase the invoice unnecessarily.

GDDR6 VS HBM2 Memory - TechSiting

Both GDDR6 and HBM2 are types of memory that enable processors to perform better in a wide variety of applications due to their high memory bandwidth. In this

www.techsiting.com

If rumors are true, they wont be going for 24 GB of HBM2 RAM, only 8GB of it. The rest is going to be cheap DDR4 RAM.

This will save them not just money but also on the overall TDP. That could explain the 1.8ghz clockspeeds for the GPU and the supposed power advantage over the Scarlet which is using standard GDDR6.

 

[SonGoku]

nVidia had some low-end GPUs in the Fermi era with mixed density chips.

You can access 8GB of RAM at 320GB/s but the remaining 2GB can only be accessed at 80GB/s. Might be fine on a console since you use the memory for non-graphics tasks.

Nvidia did a non uniform memory config on a gpu a few generations ago (not the 970). Can't remember which card but pretty sure it has 3GB of ram with with a 128bit bus or some other nonsense. I want to say it was a 6xx or 7xx series but I had no luck with Google. I know Anandtech reviewed it though.

Yeah i remember that, but its wasteful in a console and akin to splitting the memory pool

If the rumor is true, they wont be going for 24 GB of HBM2 RAM, only 8GB of it. The rest is going to be cheap DDR4 RAM.

fixd

 

[R600]

If rumors are true, they wont be going for 24 GB of HBM2 RAM, only 8GB of it. The rest is going to be cheap DDR4 RAM.

This will save them not just money but also on the overall TDP. That could explain the 1.8ghz clockspeeds for the GPU and the supposed power advantage over the Scarlet which is using standard GDDR6.

Cooling SOC and cooling SOC + memory is completely different thing.

Basically if you can move GDDR6 chips away from SOC and cool it efficiently, it wont make much difference regarding TF/GHz of SOC itself vs console using HBM2 memory.

Sony will go for 16GB GDDR6 @576 and 4GB of DDR4.

 

[TeamGhobad]

having 2 types of memory pools will lead to more mem controllers on the SoC?

 

[TeamGhobad]

since we're bored here is a pastebin 4chan leak

>3.2GHZ 8 core/ 16 thread Zen2
>8.3TF Navi - 1.8GHZ
>Hardware accelerated RT
>16GB GDDR6 @512GB/s
>4GB of DDR4
>1TB NAND

 

[JLMC469]

since we're bored here is a pastebin 4chan leak

>3.2GHZ 8 core/ 16 thread Zen2
>8.3TF Navi - 1.8GHZ
>Hardware accelerated RT
>16GB GDDR6 @512GB/s
>4GB of DDR4
>1TB NAND

Didn’t someone say (a journalist I believe) that this consoles were targeting higher tflops than Stadia?

 

[Imtjnotu]

since we're bored here is a pastebin 4chan leak

>3.2GHZ 8 core/ 16 thread Zen2
>8.3TF Navi - 1.8GHZ
>Hardware accelerated RT
>16GB GDDR6 @512GB/s
>4GB of DDR4
>1TB NAND

8tf at 1.8...lol

 

[McHuj]

Didn’t someone say (a journalist I believe) that this consoles were targeting higher tflops than Stadia?

Journalists is stretching it

 

[R600]

8tf at 1.8...lol

Nothing lol worthy. It would be 36CUs. Cut down NaviXT with slightly lower clocks (that card itself is 225W btw).

 

[Evilms]

> 8.3TF Navi - 1.8GHZ

36 CU x 64 x 2 x 1800Mhz ~ 8.3TF basically a 5700 slightly overclocked ?

 

[TeamGhobad]

these are Navi tflops, stadia uses vega. navi tflops > vega tflops

 

[ResilientBanana]

8TF Navi should be equal to 10TF Vega.. Right?

 

[R600]

8TF Navi should be equal to 10TF Vega.. Right?

8.3TF Navi ~ 11TF Vega.

 

[Ovech-King]

I just like how we go crazy on scrutinizing numbers on a partial chip view in a video. It's time they both reveal their specs before we go nuts.

 

[Aceofspades]

since we're bored here is a pastebin 4chan leak

>3.2GHZ 8 core/ 16 thread Zen2
>8.3TF Navi - 1.8GHZ
>Hardware accelerated RT
>16GB GDDR6 @512GB/s
>4GB of DDR4
>1TB NAND

If thats PS5, what does that make Anaconda a 7.5TF navi

 

[Evilms]

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The new Navi chips + RT cores + 8 core CPU = approx 375 to 400mm2 die

This is what we are getting folks, #dealwithit

Remove hardware RT and you can push CU count higher. Only other option for higher CU count and RT is ~450mm2 APU and that is unlikely

 

[ResilientBanana]

8.3TF Navi ~ 11TF Vega.

I thought the calculation was roughly 25% more performance. If you're at 8.3TF then the Vega equivilant is 10.375TF which is not quite 11 unless you are rounding off your remainder rather high.

 

[R600]

I thought the calculation was roughly 25% more performance. If you're at 8.3TF then the Vega equivilant is 10.375TF which is not quite 11 unless you are rounding off your remainder rather high.

Going by official AMD slides, Vega vs Navi XT was ~31% on average.

 

[Fake]

Yikes about those specs...

 

[Evilms]

I thought the calculation was roughly 25% more performance. If you're at 8.3TF then the Vega equivilant is 10.375TF which is not quite 11 unless you are rounding off your remainder rather high.

~45%

Apparently according to AMD slides : 1 Tflop RDNA/Navi is more than 1.25x than 1 Tflop GCN/Vega.

We notice RX 5700 XT with 9.75 Tflops is 14% faster than Vega 64 with 12.6 Tflops, so 1 Tflop RDNA/Navi is 1.47x 1 Tflop GCN/Vega.

So if the PS5/Scarlett (Navi) have 9 Tflops for example it would give 13.2 Tflops in GCN/Vega, honestly i find it not bad and the difference is likely to be huge with
the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X which are based on GCN/Polaris (2016).

 

[ResilientBanana]

~45%

Bitchin'

 

[DeepEnigma]

since we're bored here is a pastebin 4chan leak

>3.2GHZ 8 core/ 16 thread Zen2
>8.3TF Navi - 1.8GHZ
>Hardware accelerated RT
>16GB GDDR6 @512GB/s
>4GB of DDR4
>1TB NAND

Why wouldn't they just add more cores and lower the clocks, for not only heat, but wattage?



Fake post is fake.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The new Navi chips + RT cores + 8 core CPU = approx 375 to 400mm2 die

This is what we are getting folks, #dealwithit

Remove hardware RT and you can push CU count higher. Only other option for higher CU count and RT is ~450mm2 APU and that is unlikely

RT cores, as in Nvidia style, are a complete waste of space that could be used for better things on consoles. I hope sony/MS find a better solution (modified hybrid CUs, whatever).

 

[R600]

Why wouldn't they just add more cores and lower the clocks, for not only heat, but wattage?



Fake post is fake.

Yea, not like die space is not free.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Edit: nevermind, 1050 would have had 3 even chips

 

[FrostyJ93]

You guys worry way too much about specs. It'll be fine the games will look amazing. I will choose to trust devs to make great games with whatever hardware is there.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yea, not like die space is not free.

They will be shrinking from 28nm to 7nm, why would they use the same CU count (36) as the PS4 Pro with all that extra space on the die?

Would be a lot of wasted space.

 

[JLMC469]

You guys worry way too much about specs. It'll be fine the games will look amazing. I will choose to trust devs to make great games with whatever hardware is there.

You Sir, you deserve a medal.

 

[SonGoku]

8tf at 1.8...lol

36CUs baby! looool

 

[R600]

They will be shrinking from 28nm to 7nm, why would they use the same CU count (36) as the PS4 Pro with all that extra space on the die?

Would be a lot of wasted space.

1. Because Pro's 36CUs are on 16nm node, not 28nm
2. Because NAVI CUs are quite a bit larger then GCN CUs
3. Because there will be RT hardware on die

 

[DeepEnigma]

You guys worry way too much about specs. It'll be fine the games will look amazing. I will choose to trust devs to make great games with whatever hardware is there.

They sure will, but some people like talking about specs in the next-gen pre-season.

 

[SonGoku]

Yea, not like die space is not free.

True but 380-390 mm2 is within managable cost range for a console

RT cores, as in Nvidia style, are a complete waste of space that could be used for better things on consoles. I hope sony/MS find a better solution (modified hybrid CUs, whatever).

I think nvidia rt cores are just that: Cuda cores with extra hw

1. Because Pro's 36CUs are on 16nm node, not 28nm
2. Because NAVI CUs are quite a bit larger then GCN CUs
3. Because there will be RT hardware on die

Even accounting RT logic you can fit 64CUs on a 380-390mm2 APU
A lower clocked big chip will be cheaper long term than a small power hungry chip

 

[DeepEnigma]

1. Because Pro's 36CUs are on 16nm node, not 28nm
2. Because NAVI CUs are quite a bit larger then GCN CUs
3. Because there will be RT hardware on die

I still think the CU count will be higher to get away with lower clocks/thermals, as well as higher TF will be needed for VR, RT, 4K for all.

16nm to 7nm is still more than half the shrinkage. The CUs are not that much bigger.

 

[FrostyJ93]

They sure will, but some people like talking about specs in the next-gen pre-season.

And thats fine but i think its becoming a bit obsessive/unhealthy. I think the midgen refreshes specifically One X have created unrealistic expectations.

 

[quest]

You guys worry way too much about specs. It'll be fine the games will look amazing. I will choose to trust devs to make great games with whatever hardware is there.

Not just us but trying to sell the general gaming population on a new generation. If the new consoles are slightly above the X in raw TF it will be a hard sell. You are then trying to market things like IPC ect it's a mess. These need to be 10tf in raw power just for marketing 5x the og ps5 which is a lot less than a normal jump. Ideally both be 12TF twice the X and around 10x the og xbox one. Much easier to market to people. Like it or not MS and the GPU makers made TF the end all be all.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not just us but trying to sell the general gaming population on a new generation. If the new consoles are slightly above the X in raw TF it will be a hard sell. You are then trying to market things like IPC ect it's a mess. These need to be 10tf in raw power just for marketing 5x the og ps5 which is a lot less than a normal jump. Ideally both be 12TF twice the X and around 10x the og xbox one. Much easier to market to people. Like it or not MS and the GPU makers made TF the end all be all.

And Google Stadia of all (junk) will point and laugh with their marketing. It most definitely was a shots fired moment at their reveal.

 

[SonGoku]

And thats fine but i think its becoming a bit obsessive/unhealthy.

Check the thread of the title lol
The whole point of this thread is to obsess over next gen specs

 

[DeepEnigma]

And thats fine but i think its becoming a bit obsessive/unhealthy. I think the midgen refreshes specifically One X have created unrealistic expectations.

Who is obsessed? I personally don't think of them at all when I close the web page.

 

[FrostyJ93]

Fair enough. But in the end its the results that matter. They always have and they always will.

 

[R600]

And Google Stadia of all (junk) will point and laugh with their marketing. It most definitely was a shots fired moment at their reveal.

Google made sure to tell everyone that by being in cloud they dont have to worry about small box thermals as they would if they made console, probably insinuating that 10.5TF of Stadia would not be possible in console box.

Seriously, there is nothing about Navi10 that tells us to expect more then 9TF in next gen consoles. 7.9TF 5700 is more, relatively, then what Sony put in last gen console, so not sure why everyone expects 10TF.

 

[FrostyJ93]

Google made sure to tell everyone that by being in cloud they dont have to worry about small box thermals as they would if they made console, probably insinuating that 10.5TF of Stadia would not be possible in console box.

Seriously, there is nothing about Navi10 that tells us to expect more then 9TF in next gen consoles. 7.9TF 5700 is more, relatively, then what Sony put in last gen console, so not sure why everyone expects 10TF.

Aren't Navi TFs better than Vega TFs anyway? If so what is the problem?

 

[SonGoku]

Seriously, there is nothing about Navi10 that tells us to expect more then 9TF in next gen consoles.

Good thing next gen consoles won't use Navi 10 then

 

[TeamGhobad]

good news



seems the ps5 comparisons were with the lockhart model not anaconda, xCloud will replace lockhart.

more: https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/208837/microsoft-shifts-xbox-focus-to-one-next-gen-console

 

[DeepEnigma]

Google made sure to tell everyone that by being in cloud they dont have to worry about small box thermals as they would if they made console, probably insinuating that 10.5TF of Stadia would not be possible in console box.

Seriously, there is nothing about Navi10 that tells us to expect more then 9TF in next gen consoles. 7.9TF 5700 is more, relatively, then what Sony put in last gen console, so not sure why everyone expects 10TF.

Who said the consoles are using Navi 10? Navi 10 does not even support RT nor will RDNA. RDNA2 will supposedly have that support which will not be for Navi 10, but from what I understood 20.

Stadia is also not using Navi, but a juiced to the max Vega. The thermals will of course be different PPW.

 

[R600]

Aren't Navi TFs better than Vega TFs anyway? If so what is the problem?

They are. Navi with 8-9TF is definitely match for Vega ~12TF. Its that some people cling on TF number and wont accept we are getting less then 10TF, likely even 9.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They are. Navi with 8-9TF is definitely match for Vega ~12TF. Its that some people cling on TF number and wont accept we are getting less then 10TF, likely even 9.

I can see this argument, but I still feel no less than 10. But even if it is, that is still a healthy baseline when 1.84TF have been putting out some fantastic visuals still.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Umm....I'm really not too sure the explanation about what happened to Lockhart is really adding up. I'm sure most will be happy it isn't happening, though.