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[Bo_Hazem]

I just dont get Alex to him testing a last gen 5 year old game in BC mode is more intersting than talking about the tear down of a new console that is just weird.

I understand they have already committed to releasing these videos, but his response is just baffling comes across a bit snobbish. Like this video was 100% fluff, anyway i am sorry for the rant.

Typical DF BS, now one of the most infamous games in history, AC Unity, running at 60fps is somehow interesting. Seems too dry and they're trying to make shit smell good. Glad more people are getting it and calling them out.

No freebies from Sony.

EDIT: Wow, all that praise about AC Unity and it was 900p@60fps!

 

[ToadMan]

What do you think has happened to the relationship between Sony and DF, Heisenberg? Clearly there has been big changes with how Sony operate with the game press while at the same time Microsoft have increased their access/disclosure beyond even what they did with DF for Scorpio. It still shouldn't lead to bias but clearly whatever has happened, DF aren't too happy about it.

Ok I think it’s time to be clear about the situation with MS, websites and “influencers”.

MS has entered into marketing contracts and NDAs with the various influencers including DF.

Its not the benevolent action of a company just getting enthusiasts to try the console - MS is using those sources to market their console and those sources accept because they get hits and that makes money.

There is no impartiality when there is a contractual relationship.

Don’t confuse marketing and genuine users just trying the console out. If that was happening there’d be twitch streams with people actually playing Xbox series x games live for hours - what we actually have is a bunch of short opinion pieces and cut content in YouTube vids.

That’s not genuine user experience demos - it’s marketing.

 

[demigod]

And some people think they haven't been 'bought'.

Me and thelastword saw this a decade ago, welcome to the club boys.

 

[SlimySnake]

When cerny seemed annoyed?

Yeah, read that interview. After the sixth question about variable clocks, cerny was clearly annoyed and said that coding on a translator by transistor basis is simply never even done in video games.

 

[Sinthor]

Just my two cents here and this is taken from a totally none technical person or as a normal everyday consumer walking around your local Tescos.

I know fuck all about tech but when i see a game like that and see a 13 second load time i am like Wtf, why.

If it was say forza or the new call of duty and it had all that eye candy/raytraching etc i would be like fair enough, i can understand why it takes so long to load. With this game i am like WTF, this should be 1-2 seconds surely.

Of course there is a lot more to it than that, but that's why my soul died when i saw the loading screen of no mans sky on ps4, i just expect those type of looking games to load quick.

Well, I'll add my opinion as well. Heck, I think 13 seconds is pretty darn fast. I mean the XSX has a good fast SSD and I/O system, but it's not nearly as fast as the PS5. Still...we'll have to see exactly what that means real world. WILL that mean that a game XSX loads in 13 seconds loads in 6.5 seconds on PS5? 10 seconds? Or will it be the same? We just don't know yet. But again, i'd just say that 13 seconds is just fine. Anything better will be.....better.

Doesn't matter so much what the game looks like, it's what the game is DOING and everything else involved that dictates loading speeds. Someone mentioned No Man's Sky and that's a good example. Ok, not doing photorealistic graphics, right...but it IS procedurally generating a galaxy and hundreds of thousands of unique combination worlds and star systems at least. So it's actually pretty impressive that it can even load that on a PS4 within a minute or two. I'd like to see how fast THAT game loads up on XSX and PS5 by comparison. Because that game seriously makes you wait!

 

[SlimySnake]

Nah, i think DF burned their bridges with Sony when they revealed Scorpio after they got to reveal PS4 Pro. Hence why Sony went with wired for the PS5.

Nah. Cerny still went to him before the ps5 road to ps5 reveal and told him the tflops figure in advance. DF had their article up at 12pm that day, the same time road to ps5 went live.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Alex "DF":
"SSD only for loading"
"Clock fake"

While Alex is clearly a PC fan and doesn't really care about anything else, rightly or wrongly he is basically the voice of DF on forums when questions are asked. Rich has never done SM and John left the forums earlier in the year. You can see in Alex' post that the DF team simply don't like the fact MS gave unfettered access to XSX with the teardown and were even shown XSS and they have gotten nothing from Sony.

But their obvious ire about Sony in their videos, and responses we read from Alex on forums, is coming across pretty petulant. I just wish they would just come out and explain what has been going on. Steve Burke at Gamers Nexus puts everything out there when he has run ins or problems with manufacturers.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

this is on Sony. They should've kept DF in the loop like they did when they talked to him about the road to ps5 talk before the talk went live. Df has earned it.

That said, i think Richard might have burned some bridges when he refused th take cernys word about the variable clocks and went to devs for clarifications. Cerny seemed annoyed and i think they decided then and there not to engage DF like that again.

Sony has no reason to pander to any specific gaming outlet. There's so much turnover in the industry that there's no point in it. If they've suspected DF of being biased, there's even less incentive in doing this. There are tons of ways to market your platform, and tons of tech-based YT channels out there. Personally, I'm intrigued by the possibility of someone like Travis Scott getting a PS5 to review, because the platform these celebs have dwarfs the tech community. If you want to hit the mainstream, you go to where the mainstream is at, not the enthusiast community. Peter and Ned gaming on a PS5 in Spidey 3, and some popular rapper stanning over Miles Morales in his crib would do much more for promoting the PS brand than Rich and Alex throwing soft shade in every PS5-related video.

Keeping DF "in the loop" benefits the DF brand, not the Sony one. Sony's only going to look out for themselves, and the results seem to be working.

 

[chonga]

Purely on content, what is wrong with what he said? Tear down is indeed self-explanatory and like he said, they have the XSX... If Sony gave them a PS5 with BC games, they would do exactly the same. But Sony didn't so that's their own fault. I get that when you are a PS fan, you want more info, but look at Sony for that.

Not being in the PC space I never even knew using liquid metal was a thing. And you can tell a lot of people on here aren't clued up on it either because some people were getting confused between it and liquid cooling. Hardly self-explanatory.

And as I've already posted there's plenty to discuss about what was revealed from the teardown in terms of pros and cons, what options it opens up and how it compares to the SX.

So there is plenty of content there ripe for making a video. They did after all make a video where they discussed the internal structures and build of the SX after they got the chance to pull one apart and put it together again.

I mean yeah they don't have to make a video if they don't want to but to dismiss it as uninteresting and self-explanatory is just plain wrong. The questions and commentary on forums like this and the view count proves that.

 

[Orky]

Ok I think it’s time to be clear about the situation with MS, websites and “influencers”.

MS has entered into marketing contracts and NDAs with the various influencers including DF.

Its not the benevolent action of a company just getting enthusiasts to try the console - MS is using those sources to market their console and those sources accept because they get hits and that makes money.

There is no impartiality when there is a contractual relationship.

Don’t confuse marketing and genuine users just trying the console out. If that was happening there’d be twitch streams with people actually playing Xbox series x games live for hours - what we actually have is a bunch of short opinion pieces and cut content in YouTube vids.

That’s not genuine user experience demos - it’s marketing.

what are you even talking about? Lol „clearing up“ and then starts blabbering lies and FUD.
it’s genuine users trying the console out! Why are you making shit up?

The NDA only says what the reviewers are not allowed to talk about and that is stuff that isn’t ready yet, other than that MS even told them BE OPEN AND HONEST AS POSSIBLE, give us your honest opinion.
I don’t know why you are making this shit up, it’s ridiculous and just plain FUD.

 

[Loxus]

Purely on content, what is wrong with what he said? Tear down is indeed self-explanatory and like he said, they have the XSX... If Sony gave them a PS5 with BC games, they would do exactly the same. But Sony didn't so that's their own fault. I get that when you are a PS fan, you want more info, but look at Sony for that.

Don't came with that, they did break down of trailers without hardware.
Why can't they do the same for the teardown?
They had discussions without hardware many, many times.
I think it clear what's going on with DF.

 

[kyliethicc]

Purely on content, what is wrong with what he said? Tear down is indeed self-explanatory and like he said, they have the XSX... If Sony gave them a PS5 with BC games, they would do exactly the same. But Sony didn't so that's their own fault. I get that when you are a PS fan, you want more info, but look at Sony for that.

They made multiple videos about the Xbox teardown. "Self-explanatory."

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Don't came with that, they did break down of trailers without hardware.
Why can't they do the same for the teardown?
They had discussions without hardware many, many times.
I think it clear what's going on with DF.

Sure, they are all paid shills

 

[SlimySnake]

Sony has no reason to pander to any specific gaming outlet. There's so much turnover in the industry that there's no point in it. If they've suspected DF of being biased, there's even less incentive in doing this. There are tons of ways to market your platform, and tons of tech-based YT channels out there. Personally, I'm intrigued by the possibility of someone like Travis Scott getting a PS5 to review, because the platform these celebs have dwarfs the tech community. If you want to hit the mainstream, you go to where the mainstream is at, not the enthusiast community. Peter and Ned gaming on a PS5 in Spidey 3, and some popular rapper stanning over Miles Morales in his crib would do much more for promoting the PS brand than Rich and Alex throwing soft shade in every PS5-related video.

Keeping DF "in the loop" benefits the DF brand, not the Sony one. Sony's only going to look out for themselves, and the results seem to be working.

pardon my language but then wtf we talking about here? Why are we so upset over df covering it when a hack of a rapper has already received it?

Let's face it, despite any perceived bias, we still want to see what df says over celebrities.

 

[reksveks]

They made multiple videos about the Xbox teardown. "Self-explanatory."

Their teardown video came out before the specs was out and actually had actual games running on it, lets not pretend its the same as the sony teardown video.

 

[ToadMan]

what are you even talking about? Lol „clearing up“ and then starts blabbering lies and FUD.
it’s genuine users trying the console out! Why are you making shit up?

The NDA only says what the reviewers are not allowed to talk about and that is stuff that isn’t ready yet, other than that MS even told them BE OPEN AND HONEST AS POSSIBLE, give us your honest opinion.
I don’t know why you are making this shit up, it’s ridiculous and just plain FUD.

Really?

Perhaps you can provide a link of one of these users just, you know, playing games on an Xsex for a few hours like you might see on twitch ....

That’s what I’d be doing with a new console given me by MS to just “try out”

 

[SlimySnake]

They made multiple videos about the Xbox teardown. "Self-explanatory."

It's because they were part of the teardown. Ms literally had them put it back together.

Here we are 7 months later, 1 month from launch and Sony won't even engage them in any way.

 

[chonga]

Their teardown video came out before the specs was out and actually had actual games running on it, lets not pretend its the same as the sony teardown video.

But according to him it is uninteresting content to see a teardown, so why include it in your video?

Nice job guys making us sit through minutes of boring shit!

 

[reksveks]

MS has entered into marketing contracts and NDAs with the various influencers including DF.

Evidence of marketing contracts? NDA's and embargo's are normal for pre-release hardware/software.

 

[Loxus]

Sure, they are all paid shills

That not my point, my point is if anything. Do a DF Direct.
What so hard about that, they do it all the time.

 

[ToadMan]

Sure, they are all paid shills

They are paid yes... Do you doubt that?

DF isn’t making content (just) for fun, they make it for money.

That post from REEE said as much “we have a console no one else has” - translation = posting privileged information is getting us hits and that generates revenue.

It is what it is - but neither DF nor MS is a charity, they are businesses.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

Still find the Travis Scott thing a little suspect, sure he had the controller but we didn’t even see one shot of the console.

I don't see it either, but he's the only one that we know of with a DualSense and allegedly a PS5 without Sony supervision. I sure do hope more people have the PS5 at home, but Sony ninjas are probably watching everything closely.

Travis Scott is a Sony artist. https://www.sonymusic.co.uk/artist/travis-scott/
That's why he has one. Reality is many celebraties have them already. Just like they get pre cinema releases films for their home cinema. They just don't tweet about it because of NDA's & its just rich people shit they don't brag about.

Linus talking about PS5 teardown and BC. Also mentions they have a Series X video coming soon. They have not received a PS5 as of yet.



Timestamped (1:05:25)

This Entitlement mentally is crazy.Why exactly should you get one?? Nobody ever ask this question? Why should you get one before general public? When you are not a console gamer to boot.

This a Goofy clown right here. You tried to clown the SSD ,Epic & Tim Sweeney. Japanese don't fuck with that disrespect shit. These dumb fucks really think they are important to gaming. You are just a dude with a gaming channel not an engineer ,not a dev. You are no different to a random in a tech store. This people need to come back to reality. What a goofy expecting a box after showing disrespect.

 

[reksveks]

But according to him it is uninteresting content to see a teardown, so why include it in your video?

Nice job guys making us sit through minutes of boring shit!

Because Microsoft didn't do the breakdown beforehand to the public but DF/Austin Evans did. There is nothing much that DF would have added as Alex said.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[ToadMan]

Evidence of marketing contracts? NDA's and embargo's are normal for pre-release hardware/software.

Where there is an exchange of value, there is a contract.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's what I'm expecting to be honest. Besides that I'm guessing their will be features that will take advantage of that I/O.

 

[reksveks]

Where there is an exchange of value, there is a contract.

So nothing written ? or is your pov is that there is a written contract?

 

[PSX]

 

[danielJackson]

pardon my language but then wtf we talking about here? Why are we so upset over df covering it when a hack of a rapper has already received it?

Let's face it, despite any perceived bias, we still want to see what df says over celebrities.

As a gamer & tech nerd I dont see the point of watching channels like DF, they are basically like watching Kardashians, biased stuff for people whom dont understand things by themselves.

Watching famous people gaming is even more pointless.

Watching official channels is the way. Or expert engineer tech talk (df have no real experts) that have long track record, like Cerny.

Then those fps&zoom800% videos, also mostly useless and pointless, who cares if one version have less pixels or shadows, if they own only one console?

Channels like that are mostly for casuals whom dont have the knowledge to see if they are fooled or not by biased people.

I know it is difficult to learn years worth of computer & electronics stuff without being really interested in it, but it is same as people read some shit on Facebook about 5G causing corona because they lack basic biology understanding, when they believe some famous person on channel just because they are famous and use simple words they understand

In my opinion it is fine to watch them, but people should not talk about tech based on watching some youtube videos and then think they are experts now.

They are entairtenment for the casuals, not real unbiased source of knowledge

 

[NeonGhost]

This guy should seek treatement for narcissistic personality disorder at this point.

Well posts like this probably just feed into it

 

[Blue Spring]

If they've suspected DF of being biased, there's even less incentive in doing this.

Its really this. Do people really think those companies dont know what the gaming media is up to? What they write and where their bias lies?
Sony knows that DF is not too friendly towards them so they will not give them priority.
The same is true for Microsoft. They know DF eats up anything they say, so they are very comfortable in having them do their tear down etc.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Okay, as a non-tech gamer ... what is uncapped framerate? I always had the impression it's a framerate which goes as high as the hardware allows, which means, in my head, that an uncapped ps3 game running on a PS5 would go 400 frames per second or something, becoming too fast and unplayable.

What is uncapped framerate really?

 

[chonga]

Because Microsoft didn't do the breakdown beforehand to the public but DF/Austin Evans did. There is nothing much that DF would have added as Alex said.

No you miss the point.

He labelled the video uninteresting. So if it is uninteresting to watch a console being taken apart, why did they put out a video of them taking apart a console? Apparently it is uninteresting to watch. So he basically called their content uninteresting.

 

[Captain Ashley]

Because Microsoft didn't do the breakdown beforehand to the public but DF/Austin Evans did. There is nothing much that DF would have added as Alex said.

I watched NXGamer analysis of the teardown and he had lots of interesting info on the topic, for example what specs mean for the future of VR. But he is a tech expert.

 

[RaZoR No1]

This is the future!
I expect MS to catch with xCloud

Imagine playing the game etc. While you are downloading the whole game in the background

 

[Antelope]

The ‘boring’ PS5 tech teardown has nearly 7 million views in less than a week. I don’t think Sony is too worried.

Also, whoever is in charge of DF should really clamp down on their social media. Posting on these forums might boost the ego of a contributor, but it really hurts their brand long term.

 

[kyliethicc]

It's because they were part of the teardown. Ms literally had them put it back together.

Here we are 7 months later, 1 month from launch and Sony won't even engage them in any way.

good. and don't talk shit about La Flame

 

[Blue Spring]

Travis Scott is a Sony artist. https://www.sonymusic.co.uk/artist/travis-scott/
That's why he has one. Reality is many celebraties have them already. Just like they get pre cinema releases films for their home cinema. They just don't tweet about it because of NDA's & its just rich people shit they don't brag about.



This Entitlement mentally is crazy.Why exactly should you get one?? Nobody ever ask this question? Why should you get one before general public? When you are not a console gamer to boot.

This a Goofy clown right here. You tried to clown the SSD ,Epic & Tim Sweeney. Japanese don't fuck with that disrespect shit. These dumb fucks really think they are important to gaming. You are just a dude with a gaming channel not an engineer ,not a dev. You are no different to a random in a tech store. This people need to come back to reality. What a goofy expecting a box after showing disrespect.

Linus is actually very level headed from what I have seen.
And that he genuinely apologized for spreading FUD is something you dont see every day either.

 

[NeonGhost]

Seems like a lot of people who hate DF really want to watch their videos

 

[reksveks]

Okay, as a non-tech gamer ... what is uncapped framerate? I always had the impression it's a framerate which goes as high as the hardware allows, which means, in my head, that an uncapped ps3 game running on a PS5 would go 400 frames per second or something, becoming too fast and unplayable.

What is uncapped framerate really?

If the game logic was tied to the frame rate then it would be unplayable. When people typically say uncapped frame rate on console, they typically mean that the game returns the frame (image) as soon as it's ready so the frame rate varies based on what's on screen. I think even on consoles they have a minimum number of the time that the frame could be returned in due to the video output.

A 'capped' frame rate means that the game returns a frame every 16.66/33.33ms seconds even if the console has done the calculation.

Don't think I really explained it well.

No you miss the point.

He labelled the video uninteresting. So if it is uninteresting to watch a console being taken apart, why did they put out a video of them taking apart a console? Apparently it is uninteresting to watch. So he basically called their content uninteresting.

It was kinda uninteresting once the specs was out as the xbox series x would have been if the specs had been out.

 

[DarkParadise]

 

[reksveks]

This is the future!
I expect MS to catch with xCloud

Imagine playing the game etc. While you are downloading the whole game in the background

Don't know about the demo, previously I think devs had to provide a demo for users for the xbox store but not sure that's the case now. Phil has already commented that they are interested in having a game stream whilst it was installing I think.

 

[jasondefaoite]

PS+ is in many countries, and PSNow is only in a few. Assuming this feature is real, I wonder if this will be available in countries without PSNow? Hopefully yes.

 

[Nickolaidas]

If the game logic was tied to the frame rate then it would be unplayable. When people typically say uncapped frame rate on console, they typically mean that the game returns the frame (image) as soon as it's ready so the frame rate varies based on what's on screen. I think even on consoles they have a minimum number of the time that the frame could be returned in due to the video output.

So basically, uncapped framerate means the framerate goes up and down depending on what's on screen (i.e. rotating the camera upwards and seeing only your character's face and the empty sky suddenly takes the framerate to 60fps, but when you lower the camera and see houses, the grass and twenty enemies running towards you, the framerate goes to 20 fps)?

But there's still a 'ceiling' of 60fps? That is, even if you're on an empty room, the framerate won't go higher than 60fps?

 

[Nickolaidas]

So basically, every game that has 'frame drops' is basically uncapped framerate?

 

[RookX22]

I think people are just using the lack of a DF video as confirmation of bias no?

 

[kyliethicc]

Okay, as a non-tech gamer ... what is uncapped framerate? I always had the impression it's a framerate which goes as high as the hardware allows, which means, in my head, that an uncapped ps3 game running on a PS5 would go 400 frames per second or something, becoming too fast and unplayable.

What is uncapped framerate really?

Sekiro on PS4 Pro has an uncapped frame rate, so its always trying to go as high as possible. It changes a lot. A faster CPU could push it higher.

Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4 (Pro) is capped/locked at 30 FPS so the devs can build their game engine around that set frame time of 33 ms. Even if the system could push it higher sometimes, they don't and its coded to not, so they can do other things instead. A faster CPU can't push it higher unless patched (changed.)

Also, most TVs lack VRR and are 60 Hz panels, so many games stick to 30 or 60 FPS to look/feel best. At least on console, I think. So sometimes if a game couldn't keep even close to a steady 60 FPS, they'd just cap it to 30 and it'd look/run better.

So basically, every game that has 'frame drops' is basically uncapped framerate?

Nah. A 30 Hz capped game could still dip, depends. It just can't go past the cap. The ceiling.

 

[Captain Ashley]

PS+ is in many countries, and PSNow is only in a few. Assuming this feature is real, I wonder if this will be available in countries without PSNow? Hopefully yes.

I highly doubt it's real. They would need millions of PS5s in their server centres. We know they're trying to manufacture and sell as many of them as possible because of unprecedented demand.

 

[reksveks]

So basically, uncapped framerate means the framerate goes up and down depending on what's on screen (i.e. rotating the camera upwards and seeing only your character's face and the empty sky suddenly takes the framerate to 60fps, but when you lower the camera and see houses, the grass and twenty enemies running towards you, the framerate goes to 20 fps)?

But there's still a 'ceiling' of 60fps? That is, even if you're on an empty room, the framerate won't go higher than 60fps?

Yes to the first bit.

I think there might be still be a hard cap on consoles based on the output aka hdmi 2.1. I would probably have to defer to people actually developing on consoles. I think that's why you are seeing alot of the xbox one games maxing out at 4k60 (the old hdmi 2.0 cap).

 

[Neo_game]

Usually games are v sync or capped to particular fps like 30 or 60. It cannot go beyond the refresh rate of the display. They do this to prevent tearing of frames because the display may not be able to keep up with the next frame. On PC v sync can be disabled. I think on consoles games it can be done via patch. But still frames sync issue can occur. Nvidia has g sync and I think AMD also has an alternative so if your display support it the frames sync problem does not occur.