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[CyberPanda]

Man that OG Xbone was weak as. I wouldn't have minded that if sold cheaper, but add insult to injury and sell it for a $100 more, because of forced accessory nobody cared about? So, so stupid. I hope they never ever go back to that stupidity ever again.

They won’t. They lost a lot of their fan base as it is and basically handed the generation over to Sony. They have got rid of Kinect, and now Don Mattrick is also gone. With Phil in the drivers seat, things should be good imo.

 

[ethomaz]

Wasnt there a grass scene in Crysis 3 that benefited from hyper threading?

Maybe some specific place/case? Because looking on google I just see it losing performance with HT on.

 

[xool]

They won’t. They lost a lot of their fan base as it is and basically handed the generation over to Sony. They have got rid of Kinect, and now Don Mattrick is also gone. With Phil in the drivers seat, things should be good imo.

But the bean counters are still strong with MS - if the rumours of a crippleware streaming box are true then it looks like that side of the company has had its usual unwelcome input.

If Phil was the only voice there I think we'd get a great machine, but he isn't - there are far more powerful forces at play here.. (cue spooky music)

 

[CyberPanda]

Press Releases

Browse AMD’s company-wide and financial press releases.

ir.amd.com

 

[TLZ]

If Phil was the only voice there I think we'd get a great machine, but he isn't - there are far more powerful forces at play here.. (cue spooky music)

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Phil spencer is a mouthpiece in a suit. He has zero charisma. I have no idea where the love fascination for that shit-grinning doughball comes from.

OMGZ he worz t shert wiv old game name. He so kewl.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Phil spencer is a mouthpiece in a suit. He has zero charisma. I have no idea where the love fascination for that shit-grinning doughball comes from.

OMGZ he worz t shert wiv old game name. He so kewl.

But the bean counters are still strong with MS - if the rumours of a crippleware streaming box are true then it looks like that side of the company has had its usual unwelcome input.

If Phil was the only voice there I think we'd get a great machine, but he isn't - there are far more powerful forces at play here.. (cue spooky music)

I don’t think Lockhart is a stream box. The rumors around it make It seemingly more powerful. Quite honestly they could just release a stream stick as a primary streaming device. You don’t need that kind of power to stream games especially if they are going to allow it to be on the phone.

I don’t know if you have noticed but there are a lot of companies that want to stream games to your TV or phone or whatever. Why wouldn’t Microsoft or Sony?

But yeah, fuck Microsoft I guess.

EDIT: I thought I quoted two posts

 

[joe_zazen]

Phil spencer is a mouthpiece in a suit. He has zero charisma. I have no idea where the love fascination for that shit-grinning doughball comes from.

OMGZ he worz t shert wiv old game name. He so kewl.

It is what happens in a post religious society.

Phil is our saviour, he will fulfill our lives with 80+ MC scoring games every three months for the low low cost of $9.99 per month. I have to go sacrifice a chicken now on my 486.

 

[CrustyBritches]

So much concern for Lockhart. It will be just fine, no need to worry.

 

[TeamGhobad]

So much concern for Lockhart. It will be just fine, no need to worry.

expect 6-8Tflop power machine. 4k checkerboarded. no RT. maybe no disc driver either.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I don’t think Lockhart is a stream box. The rumors around it make It seemingly more powerful. Quite honestly they could just release a stream stick as a primary streaming device. You don’t need that kind of power to stream games especially if they are going to allow it to be on the phone.

I don’t know if you have noticed but there are a lot of companies that want to stream games to your TV or phone or whatever. Why wouldn’t Microsoft or Sony?

But yeah, fuck Microsoft I guess.

I didn't mention a streaming box...

 

[CrustyBritches]

expect 6-8Tflop power machine. 4k checkerboarded. no RT. maybe no disc driver either.

I'm going with 4TFLOPS, 1080p, and hopefully no RT and no disc drive. At $299 I'll take 2. If it can't be cheap, it shouldn't exist. 6-8TFLOPS is not cheap.

People should be more concerned about the PS4's massive install base causing games to be built around it's Jag CPU. Consoles have never been so forwards/backwards compatible as this coming jump.

 

[TeamGhobad]

I'm going with 4TFLOPS, 1080p, and hopefully no RT and no disc drive. At $299 I'll take 2. If it can't be cheap, it shouldn't exist. 6-8TFLOPS is not cheap.

People should be more concerned about the PS4's massive install base causing games to be built around it's Jag CPU. Consoles have never been so forwards/backwards compatible as this coming jump.

they can't release a new console with less tflops than xbox one x. doesn't make any sense.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I didn't mention a streaming box...

I fixed it.

they can't release a new console with less tflops than xbox one x. doesn't make any sense.

They could to serve a purpose of next-gen at 1080p at a $299 price point which may put them lower than the PS5. If they have an Xbox more powerful than the PS5 then they could price it above. I see Xbox at 3 price points.

• Xbox C $99
• Xbox S $399
• Xbox X $499 - $599

 

[CrustyBritches]

they can't release a new console with less tflops than xbox one x. doesn't make any sense.

Xbox One X, despite having a sufficiently powerful GPU, is still tied to the same weak Jag in the XO/PS4. To be the 1080p version of Ana's 4k, they need to have the same CPU.

Example I posted in one of the old threads:

Spoiler: Ryzen

The Xbox One X is a machine designed to run X1S or PS4 games at 4k. It's going to be tied to last gen because of the Jag CPU.

The purported "Lockhart" has a next-gen CPU with a more modern GPU. Here's an example of what just a Ryzen 5 1600 CPU at 4GHz can do with a RX 480 set to 911MHz core/4.2TFLOPS compared to the 6TF Polaris 10 in the X1X:

NXGamer running X1S version of The Witcher 3 unpatched and with unlocked framerate in CPU-heavy Novigrad:

38-43fps

Spoiler: Xbox One X TW3 unpatched Novigrad Docks

70-74fps

Spoiler: RX 480 set to 911MHz(4.2TFLOPS), X1S settings Docks:

The 4.2TFLOPS GPU is running the game ~70% faster than the 6TF GPU. This is why it's more important that the rumored "Lockhart" has the same CPU and also has the same GPU architecture as the Anaconda.

PC benchmarks seem to confirm that a setup like this will work from what I've seen.

 

[SonGoku]

expect 6-8Tflop power machine. 4k checkerboarded. no RT. maybe no disc driver either.

what if ps5 and snek checkerboard to push better graphics and simulations?

 

[Come On Tars]

So I only play on PC. Still excited to see whats coming but for my perspective I am most excited to see the new controllers.

 

[ResilientBanana]

So I only play on PC. Still excited to see whats coming but for my perspective I am most excited to see the new controllers.

I’m in this boat as well unless I want something under my TV.

 

[SonGoku]

So I only play on PC. Still excited to see whats coming but for my perspective I am most excited to see the new controllers.

YES! Im sick and tired of shitty analogs for aiming; i wish ms & Sony would push the medium forward with a right trackpad like the steam controller or trackball and paddles on the standard model

 

[Chozofication_]

11.5 TF - 12 TF is pretty fucking good.

Add a CPU that isn't dead on arrival such as Jaguar, faster RAM, a speedy SSD, games that are built from ground up for the new architecture, and the general experience will feel like a proper generational leap already.

I am excite. Base PS4 games already look so good, everything beyond that from now on is just a plus.

This is how you stay positive and not get let down when you are hoping dearly for 14 TF machines with 32 GB of RAM such as OP.

I would go as far to say as there won't be any technical limits at all on ps5, given no to minimal load times, great cpu and seeing as how scary good certain ps4 games look already... The only limit will be manpower/money and developer talent next gen.

We will see the cgi/game line completely shattered, have great physics be possible and 60fps will be far more common.

Any bickering over which console has a few more bits or clocks will just be pretty pointless at that point, but will that stop people hell no lol.

Yes there will be limits if every game wants to be native 4k but who the hell cares about that? Bloody titanfall 2 on base ps4 is virtually jaggy free at 900p, shadow of the colossus is completely jaggy free at 1080p.

 

[Fake]

Sony just need to improve the analog. D-pad are IMO by far the best I ever used. Works like a dream on both PC and PS4.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

I still think its a bad idea for ms to release teo systems i see that back firing fucking HARD

 

[Imtjnotu]

Ok

I still think its a bad idea for ms to release teo systems i see that back firing fucking HARD

Casual parents will obviously buy the cheaper one not knowing the difference. Same as the switch. Only way I see Sony losing any ground

 

[CyberPanda]

 

[ResilientBanana]

I feel like Sony may be lying in wait to see what Microsoft does. It worked out for them last gen, announcing 8GB GDDR5, that felt last minute for some reason.

 

[TLZ]

Monday 6am for me. Perfect. I wake up 5am anyway

 

[SonGoku]

ethomaz

Bus controllers + etc shrink in size too with each node progression. In fact, you can fit a 384 bit bus in less die space as the 256 bit bus on the Pro.

So my new conclusion is that non-cpu / gpu on the next gen console should only be around ~80mm2 if they don't add extra bus controllers, caches, dark silicon. In a 350mm2 die there should be 270mm2 to use, assuming cpu and Rops take around 100mm2, there is ~170mm2 remaining, which should fit 64 Vega 7 sized CUs with 30mm2 to spare.

New estimates for me is that >330mm2 SOC should be big enough to accommodate 8 core Zen2, 64CUs (4 disabled), 64 Rops.

Thoughts?

 

[Imtjnotu]

ethomaz

Thoughts?

Apu prices should be anywhere from $80-$150

 

[SonGoku]

Apu prices should be anywhere from $80-$150

At this point the only thing holding 13TF back are clocks it seems, hope Navi clocks high

 

[CyberPanda]

I feel like Sony may be lying in wait to see what Microsoft does. It worked out for them last gen, announcing 8GB GDDR5, that felt last minute for some reason.

They got very lucky with the ram situation last gen, and with Don Mattricks fuck ups helped Sony too. But, this time both companies have to have their specs finalized sooner or later for production to start. They can’t really change too much, which would effect production etc.

Monday 6am for me. Perfect. I wake up 5am anyway

So early. Lol

 

[Fake]

At this point the only thing holding 13TF back are clocks it seems, hope Navi clocks high

Will be a energy efficient, but we already have a veredict from CPU clock?

 

[ResilientBanana]

At this point the only thing holding 13TF back are clocks it seems, hope Navi clocks high

I'd be down for a bulky box again if they are willing to give it the horsepower it needs.

 

[ethomaz]

ethomaz

Thoughts?

I don’t know... GPU is not that small:

Vega 20: 331mm2 in 7nm
Vega 10: 495mm2 in 16nm

To have 64CUs I believe the size of the GPU will be close to Vega 20.

How much AMD can make it smaller than Vega 20 plus the 70-80mm2 of the CPU side.

 

[SonGoku]

I don’t know... GPU is not that small:

Vega 20: 331mm2 in 7nm
Vega 10: 495mm2 in 16nm

To have 64CUs I believe the size of the GPU will be close to Vega 20.

they are saying 140mm2 for 64cu and 75mm2 for zen2

 

[ethomaz]

they are saying 140mm2 for 64cu and 75mm2 for zen2

So what makes these 191mm2 on Vega 20??? I’m sure the GPU needs the rest to works not only the CUs.

 

[SonGoku]

So what makes these 191mm2 on Vega 20???

Supposedly the other bits that take over 50% of die space, and those bits can be reused for the CPU is my understanding

In a 350mm2 die there should be 270mm2 to use, assuming cpu and Rops take around 100mm2, there is ~170mm2 remaining, which should fit 64 Vega 7 sized CUs with 30mm2 to spare.

Which leaves 110mm2 for the other bits that make up the die (on a 350mm2 die)

 

[ethomaz]

Supposedly the other bits that take over 50% of die space, and those bits can be reused for the CPU is my understanding

Which leaves 110mm2 for the other bits that make up the die (on a 350mm2 die)

That is what confuses me... Vega 20 is only GPU (there is no CPU) and it is 331mm2.

 

[SonGoku]

That is what confuses me... Vega 20 is only GPU (there is no CPU) and it is 331mm2.

The gist of it is that CUs take 40% of GPU die space, the rest are rops, hbm stacks and silicon bits that make up modern chips.
My knowledge on this is minimum thats why i asked for your thoughts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They got very lucky with the ram situation last gen, and with Don Mattricks fuck ups helped Sony too. But, this time both companies have to have their specs finalized sooner or later for production to start. They can’t really change too much, which would effect production etc.



So early. Lol

Wasn’t just ram, their GPU customizations / setup were also better across the board. So much so, MS pretty much mirrored it with the X. Higher clocks and larger bus to achieve their 6TF years later naturally.

Definitely looking forward to each one’s customizations this go round.

 

[SonGoku]

Will be a energy efficient, but we already have a veredict from CPU clock?

most are predicting 3.2Ghz
3ghz or slightly more is a safe bet imo

 

[ethomaz]

The gist of it is that CUs take 40% of GPU die space, the rest are rops, hbm stacks and silicon bits that make up modern chips.
My knowledge on this is minimum thats why i asked for your thoughts.

Makes sense...

 

[DemonCleaner]

The gist of it is that CUs take 40% of GPU die space, the rest are rops, hbm stacks and silicon bits that make up modern chips.
My knowledge on this is minimum thats why i asked for your thoughts.

HBM is on extra dies and therefore not included in the 331mm² figure. i think CUs are more like 50% of die space in vega20 (60% in vega10).

 

[SonGoku]

HBM is on extra dies and therefore not included in the 331mm² figure. i think CUs are more like 50% of die space in vega20 (60% in vega10).

Yeah that was a mistake on my part, the additional memory controllers as opposed to Vega10
I wonder if the poor density increase is due to new process.

 

[DemonCleaner]

HBM is on extra dies and therefore not included in the 331mm² figure. i think CUs are more like 50% of die space in vega20 (60% in vega10).

That is what confuses me... Vega 20 is only GPU (there is no CPU) and it is 331mm2.

there is a lot of unused space on vega20:

im not sure why the are doing this. maybe thermal reasons.

 

[DemonCleaner]

ethomaz

Bus controllers + etc shrink in size too with each node progression. In fact, you can fit a 384 bit bus in less die space as the 256 bit bus on the Pro.

So my new conclusion is that non-cpu / gpu on the next gen console should only be around ~80mm2 if they don't add extra bus controllers, caches, dark silicon. In a ​

350mm2 ​

die there should be 270mm2 to use, assuming cpu and Rops take around 100mm2, there is ~170mm2 remaining, which should fit 64 Vega 7 sized CUs with 30mm2 to spare.

New estimates for me is that >330mm2 SOC should be big enough to accommodate 8 core Zen2, 64CUs (4 disabled), 64 Rops. ​

Thoughts?

where is this quote from?

it's grounded on the presumtion that we will still see a SOC and not chiplets.
at this Point i think it's very unlikely that we won't see chiplets / seperate dies in next gen.

 

[FranXico]

I feel like Sony may be lying in wait to see what Microsoft does. It worked out for them last gen, announcing 8GB GDDR5, that felt last minute for some reason.

That's because it was. Right until they got confirmation for a great deal on GDDR5, the PS4 was going to have 4GB RAM.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

I feel like a low value gamer now

 

[CyberPanda]

 

[Fake]

I prefer to stay anonymous as well.

 

[onQ123]

Wild speculation that I had before but might not be as wild as you might think.


PS5 GPU has the same number of CU's as PS4 Pro (36 CU's) but it's clocked to 1.85Ghz & it's able to perform 3 operations per clock instead of 2



So someone going by old standards would see 36CU's clocked at 1.85Ghz & think 36 x 64 x 2 x 1850 = 8.52 TFLOPS but because it can perform 3 operations per clock it's 36 x 64 x 3 x 1850 = 12.78 TFLOPS


MIMD better for raytracing & all that plus PS4 BC