carloseduardocd
Member
All resources you mean PS5 GPU/CPU full clock speed?
I guess PS5 features like RT and GE should be available only in the new SDK, and it's not available in BC mode.
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I guess PS5 features like RT and GE should be available only in the new SDK, and it's not available in BC mode.
LiquidRex
Member
The Studio hasn't said if it's coming to PS5 later, currently it's Xbox PC exclusive.... However since the developer is independent I would think they'd want to release on PS5.
Imtjnotu
Member
Animations are shit. Atmosphere is amazing
There you go.
FranXico
Member
They might choose not to.
I starting to think Richard isn't as technical as he makes it out to be.
In his interview with Mark, he was told how it works.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive • Eurogamer.net
But he just acts dumb and refuse to believe how powerful the PS5 is.
Please someone correct if i`m wrong beucase i`m not enterely sure about it...
I remember reading somewhere that because of EU (or something like that) regulation the PS5 despite being able to churn enough power to have both GPU and CPU running at the limit, it wasnt allowed because that would exceed maximun power consuption allowed by regulation.
kyliethicc
Member
perhaps, or just hold off until 2026 and launch an even better PS5 Pro called PS6
ethomaz
Banned
That is not the case.
You will only have full access to the PS5 power doing a native PS5 game.
In BC you have three options:
PS4 BC Mode: Runs like PS4 game
PS4 Pro BC Mode: Runs like a PS4 Pro game
PS5 BC Mode: it is aware you are running on PS5 hardware so you can use a bit of PS5 power but it still heavy limited.
That is exactly why the Rocket League devs said they couldn't reach 120Hz with PS5 in BC mode... they need to do a native PS5 game to allow Rocket League run at 120Hz on PS5.
kyliethicc
Member
I kinda doubt the PS5 could take Ghost from 1800p30 to 1800p60 while only running the CPU at 2.1 GHz and GPU at 911 MHz.
Clearly devs can use the PS5's higher frequencies if they want, Sony themselves said the PS5 can run PS4 games at "boosted frequencies."
ethomaz
Banned
That depends how well over the cap it runs on PS4 Pro.
The CPU alone at 2.13Ghz runs at least twice faster than Jaguar CPU at 2.13Ghz... so if not using the PS4s modes it will be using the actual real IPC power of PS5 CPU.
The GPU is about 40-50% faster than the GPU on PS4 Pro at same clock.
Not running on legacy mode already do a big boost in CPU and GPU even without clock increase.
And I'm not saying PS5 full clocks can't be used in PS5 BC mode either.
Richard is saying the CPU is running at 2.1Ghz on GoT on PS5.
Only PS4 BC and PS4 Pro BC modes have the CPU/GPU emulation the old CPU/GPUs... in these modes the IPC is limited to be similar to original IPCs.
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jasondefaoite
Member
Nah, you are wrong here. There is no limitation of power during gaming. There is the usual standby mode power limitations, like most mains powered electronics.
Why? "Furthermore, a power limitation on power consumption during gaming could lead to a differentiation in future models on the European market, if less computational power is made available in order to meet power limitation requirements. Another very unlikely but possible outcome could be, that certain games are not offered in Europe, because the computational power required for rendering the game would lead to a violation of a power cap."
Source: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication...e4799-e4bd-11e9-9c4e-01aa75ed71a1/language-en
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
My point is that a game patched to be aware it’s running on a PS5 is no longer running in BC mode.
Unsubstantiated trollop.
There’s no EU regulation constraining power consumption for electronic devices. Consumer or otherwise.
Sony, MS and Nintendo have all signed up to a voluntary EU programme where they commit to employing every possible available technology to reduce power consumption for standby, media playback and other low power states. There are no limits for nominal performance under full operating load.
As mentioned above, a game patched to run aware that it’s running on PS5 is no longer running in any BC mode.
Games like Rocket League are limited precisely because they do run in BC mode, because that’s a far quicker and easier patch to produce than a more comprehensive change which allows the application to be aware it’s running on a PS5.
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ethomaz
Banned
Cerny said it is still BC mode.
You need to compile the game by the new PS5 SDK to be a native PS5 game.
Rockect League received a patch to be aware or running on PS5 but it is still BC.
Needs a new game compilation on new SDK to be a native PS5 game.
It generate a new ID SKU for the game too.... an ID for PS5.
Cyberpunk is a clear example... it received a PS5 patch to be aware of PS5 but it can't receive new modes because it is not a native PS5 game... the patch for a native PS5 game will come in 2021... it will probably replace all the game binaries (compiled with PS5 SDK) and chance the ID of the game.
The three PS5 BC modes are very limited even if one of them can use some parts of PS5 power.
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mejin
Member
Games made to feed gamepass should have a little discount imo.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
If a game is aware it’s running on a PS5 it’s been re-compiled in the PS5 SDK, otherwise it cannot possibly be aware it’s running on PS5 hardware.
Rocket League, therefore by definition is running on PS5 as a PS4/Pro game unaware it’s running on anything else.
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ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
If the game is only aware of running on PS5 it received a patch though PS4 SDK... that option is available since June of this year on PS4 SDK... games shipped for compliance after July 8th needs to ship already aware of PS5.
RL runs in PS5 BC mode... it received a patch to be aware of PS5.
Using the PS4 SDK you can at most make the game aware of PS5 and there is no way to make it a native PS5 game.
To be a PS5 native game you need to be fully compiled on the new PS5 SDK and that needs a lot of work... it will generate a new GAME ID different from the ID they have being a PS4 game aware of PS5.
All next-gen free patches are only using the PS4 SDK making the game aware of PS5 to use some part of it power (it can’t use the new features for example like RT).
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
No. If the game is aware it is running on PS5 hardware, by definition it means it was compiled on the PS5 SDK, has the PS5 ID and has been compiled as a specific PS5 binary.
If it was compiled through the PS4 SDK it is a PS4/Pro game, it’s compiled as a PS4 binary. A PS4 binary cannot have any awareness that it’s running on PS5 hardware.
There are two frames of reference to consider that I think you might be getting confused about:
- The hardware
- The application (i.e. game)
In any of the BC modes the hardware decides based on the software instruction which of the three BC modes to run the software in. Whereas, from the application’s perspective, it thinks it’s running on PS4 hardware, running in whatever select performance profile based on the hardware ID (which is the only unique info. about the hardware the application sees or knows about the hardware).
E.g. a patched PS4 game compiled as a PS4 binary can never access RDNA2 specific GPU features like Wave32 instructions. It can, however, run at full CPU or GPU clocks, but only because the hardware (seeing it as a PS4 binary) selects that specific legacy mode to run the software in.
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carloseduardocd
Member
Am i wrong or both of you are talking the same thing in different words?
If the game is running in BC mode, even in PS5 CPU/GPU clocks, is still PS4 code, compiled in PS4 SDK. Rocket Leagle and Cyberpunk 2077 are examples. No 120fps, no Ray Tracing, no Geometry Engine, no settings improvements, no better resolution.. only PS5 horse power pushing to fixed 60fps.
If the game is not running in BC mode, it's compiled in PS5 SDK, different ID. Destiny 2 and Borderlands 3 are good examples. But Destiny 2 and Borderlands 3 has the PS4 code too. I can play 2 games: Destiny 2 ported to PS5 and Destiny 2 in BC mode.
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ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
PS4 SDK has a option to make it aware of PS5 hardware.
You are just confusing things.
PS5 has 4 modes (3 BC modes + 1 native):
BC PS4 Mode
BC PS4 Pro Mode
BC PS5 Mode ------------ this is the BC PS4 games are aware of PS5 hardware (it can even have menu options only show running on PS5)
PS5 Native Mode
Rocket League is definitively running in BC PS5 Mode... it is not running native... developer confirmed it... it uses the power of PS5 thought PS5 BC Mode but BC modes are limited for example BC doesn't allow 120fps no matter how light your game is... you need to make a native PS5 port for that.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think if a ps4 game needed the ps5 sdk it had to have a new sku, its own download on the psn store and be completely different from the ps4 version.
Games like dirt 5, borderlands 3 and Spiderman miles have you download the ps5 version of the game even if u have the ps4 version installed.
That's different from ghost of tsushima which has a ps4 patch telling it to detect the ps5 hardware so it can run at an uncapped framerate
ethomaz
Banned
Exactly.
It is a PS4 game that received a patch to be aware of PS5 hardware and so can use the PS5 CPU/GPU power but not its new features only available if you port it on PS5 SDK... it can't run at 120fps, can't use RT, can't use a lot of things... it is very limited.
From devs talk it is way more limited than what you can do with XboxGen9Aware using the old XDK.
Using the new GDK you have full access to the Xbox hardware of course.
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kyliethicc
Member
Sure but the PS5 can still run PS4 games using boosted clock speeds, Sony said as much.
Of course Sony wants game devs to make PS5 versions, but I bet patching PS4 games to run better on PS5 is similar to how it works on PS4 Pro. The game dev just has to make a patch for the game if they want.
Clearly CP2077 got coded to run at 60 FPS on PS5, while at best it can run at 30 FPS on PS4 (barely lol.) But its not a PS5 version of the game yet.
But most game devs/pubs are choosing to make entire PS5 versions of games like COD, Miles Morales, Rainbow 6 Siege, etc.. probably because they can sell their game again if they want, like Control, or do free upgrades.
Seems obvious Sony prefers having these games create a dedicated PS5 version of the game and often reprint a new game box with a white PS5 header on it. Maybe Sony think its more clear for casual customers.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This guy gets it.
We’re more or less saying the same thing,
ethomaz
The sole bone of contention is that in the BC PS5 mode (as it’s a BC mode) software cannot possibly know it’s running on a PS5. It’s still a PS4 binary. Binaries by definition are hardware specific.
BC PS5 mode simply allows for full CPU and GPU clocks, but it’s still a BC mode so to the game, the game thinks it’s running on a PS4 Liverpool APU, but with 3.5GHz and 2.3GHz CPU and GPU clocks respectively.
What determines whether the game runs in which BC mode is not the game code compiled into the binary. It’s the API meta-data that tells the OS “hey, I’m a PS4 game and I can run in the following modes:...” and the BC software in the PS5 OS says “OK, i’ll run you in X mode”.
The nuance that you’re missing is that in ALL BC modes, the PS4 game (patched or otherwise) doesn’t know it’s running on PS5 hardware, in that it doesn’t have access to PS5 specific hardware features.
I’m not arguing that PS4 games can be patched into PS5 binaries. Well they can in theory, but Sony has chosen for ease and clarity of distribution not to do it that way.
My argument is that only PS4 games recompiled into PS5 binaries actually “see fully” and have full access to the PS5 hardware they’re running on.
carloseduardocd
Member
Interesting.
Did you saw the Ghost of Tsushima DF analysis by Leadbetter?
What do you think about his point in the 'system level tweak' running at 60fps on PS5?
For me sounds strange. If the game is locked to 30fps, needs a patch do unlock 60fps. Doesnt matter which BC mode are running.
But why the game is locked 30fps in PS4 Pro and unlocked 60fps in PS5? Maybe it's because this API meta-data in PS5 boost mode.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Yeah, pretty sure it’s the same case as all patched PS4 games running in BC mode at higher framerates. The game probably unlocks the framerate and runs vsync’ed to lock at 60fps.
The dev would have activated the flag in the meta-data to say, you can run me in this mode if platform ID == PS5. The PS5 BC OS software layer will then select “BC Gen2 = BC PS5” to allow full PS5 clocks. That’s probably what Richard meant by “system level tweak”.
With games like GoT where the only improvement is the framerate, it’s pretty clear it’s still a PS4 game running in a legacy mode on PS5. The game doesn’t have access to any of the PS5 hardware features like RT, the GE or NGG fast path on the GPU, or even stuff like AVX vector instructions on the CPU. The game simply thinks it’s running on a PS4 (it doesn’t know or care what the clocks are, the hardware decides that).
Physiognomonics
Member
This guy found normal temperatures for the GDDR6 chips. He even tried to turn the fan off and put a cover on the PS5 to create overheating.
Using another methodology this user also found perfectly normal temperatures:
Steve (GamersNexus) is doing a PS5 thermal analysis
The issues brought up were nowhere near RROD levels that's for sure.
www.resetera.com
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kyliethicc
Member
Sucker Punch probably just wrote their code that way. The game did ship like 4 months before PS5 launched, and they're 1st party.
I bet it was a pretty easy bump for them. Same with CP2077 and Days Gone. Clearly they lifted the 30 Hz cap.
Patching games for PS4 Pro was probably fairly similar. Some devs just didn't care or couldn't cause of engine stuff, etc.
Great Hair
Banned
TheRedRiders
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
they should just make it a PS5 only title.
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
LivingD3AD
Member
Can’t wait for Ragnarok 
WelshBluebird
Member
In short - it is a load of bull.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
PS5 Stock Set To Be Replenished This Week Across Ireland/Europe
PS5 Stock Set To Be Replenished This Week Across Ireland/Europe
PS5 stock across Ireland and Europe is set to be replenished later this week with a massive delivery of consoles across Ireland.
techstomper.com
kyliethicc
Member
I think it might be coming alone a PS5 remaster, maybe around May-June, about 1 year after Part 2 came out.
Assuming its gonna be like $50 for the Remaster + Factions, as a PS5 game. Then maybe just Factions on PS4 will be free or like $20.
The multiplayer will definitely be cross-gen. They will want the bigger player base.
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Paulxo87
Member
The fact that it's pre-installed is genius. I have let a couple friends of mine play astrobot and the reaction is all the same. Big smile on your face once you feel what this controller can do. Nevermind the CGI quality graphics with ray tracing.
Btw I'm glad you're over on this forum. I remember you from beyond3d back in 2003/4 when we were all arguing over the broadband engine lmao. I was Paul on those forums.. Remember Vince? I wonder what ever happened to him. Smart guy great writing style.
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
Nintendo Switch Pro
kyliethicc
Member
Nintendo Switch Pro
fake
cmon.. 256 GB storage? dead giveaway its fake. lol its Nintendo.
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Mahavastu
Member
No, the game definitly knows / can check it is running on a PS5. Otherwise for example "ghost of tsushima" would not be able to set the console into 60fps mode.
the game knows it is running on a PS5 and has probably access to the full CPU/GPU power of the device.
According to some devs other restrictions still apply (e.g. no 120fps mode, only the same RAM available as the PS4 pro), but I guess if Sony wanted they could lift these restrictions as well.
small addition as it was not clear from your comments:
A game does not necessarily needs to know that it runs on a PS5 to run in the "PS5 BC mode".
You can see a lot of cases where an unpatched (unaware of PS5) game profits from the additional power. Examples are AC Origins which now works always on the top of the dynamic resolution, which the PS4Pro seldom reached. And Sekiro runs with 60fps while on PS4Pro the performance was worse.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And DLSS 2.0 in a mobile Nvidia GPU? That's not in any consumer product right?
Can’t wait for Ragnarok
Love the footprints too!
Dolomite
Member
At this point the MP will probably be bundled with a TLOU2 PS5 release
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Imtjnotu
Member
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Yoboman
Member
So a new console, new Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Bayonetta, Metroid Prime, Splatoon plus every third party game on the wish list in one year
Seems legit
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HawarMiran
Banned
Why not? Switch uses a NVIDIA GPU. I am sure they want this future for their Pro modelDLSS 2.0
Chris_Rivera
Member
Because DLSS is primarily for heavy RT/graphics heavy games, AKA not Nintendo games.
BertleTheTurtle
Member
Nintendo Switch Pro
GTA V and COD? Lol no.
HawarMiran
Banned
No DLSS needs Tensor Cores, and it isn't just for RT/graphics heavy games. DLSS is the future for portables. It would suit Nintendos stragety pretty good
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