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[3liteDragon]

Edit, apparently it is 1440p for both modes:

Pretty sure the final output for both modes are still 4K though, I think.

 

[SSfox]

The reason people buy PlayStation isn't to play Destruction All stars. It's s to play their stable of single player, 3rd person titles. In fact it's been stated here numerous times that people on PlayStation prefer to play single player games. Xbox games tend to be multi-player PlayStation single. We'll see how well MS does when their big single player games start hitting.


I LIKE that. I hope MS makes even more and better co-op games. I can't play Last of Us with my friends and that's why I don't have interest in it.

People buy PS because it's the best platform with most variety. Something MS can always learn from.

Also GOT legends is one of the best and most fun co-op game in this generation and it's made by Sony, so stop trying hard with your nonsense.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Some how Ubisoft managed to get raytracing on Watchdogs legion on the 'Sbox'. Maybe different developers have more talent I suppose.

Lol... Talent?

Looks at Watchdogs Legion:

Looks at Control:

One looks like an early last gen visual mess (it's worse looking that WD2), the other even on last gen hardware is absolutely stunning... are you really surprised WD:Legion has more performance headroom for RT on XSS? It's not doing anywhere near as much as Control.

 

[kyliethicc]

Whats really embarrassing is the 1220p/30fps for the RT mode on both consoles.

Edit, apparently it is 1440p for both modes:

Control Ultimate Edition next-gen enhancements detailed News

Literally a typo, thats on me. Its 1440p in both modes. Performance Mode ·Targets 60fps performance with 1440p render resolution and 4K output Graphics Mode ·Targets 30fps performance with ray tracing (transparency and reflections) at 1440p render resolution and 4K output

www.resetera.com

Well even the latest Nvidia 3080 and 3070 graphics cards struggle to maintain 60 FPS @ 1440p with high settings and high RT.

So if the consoles can deliver 1440p 30 with RT thats good enough for me. In rough terms, its about as good as a 2070 Super or 2080 in 1440p with RT. And the lack of a DLSS style upres thing on the console to boost FPS at a given res, the price of the consoles, etc.

Not bad, assuming the frame rate is a mostly solid 30.

 

[kyliethicc]

Lol... Talent?

Looks at Watchdogs Legion:

Looks at Control:

One looks like an early last gen visual mess (it's worse looking that WD2), the other even on last gen hardware is absolutely stunning... are you really surprised WD:Legion has more performance headroom for RT on XSS? It's not doing anywhere near as much as Control.

Especially the physics and interactive environments in Control. Love the way so much of the world can be destroyed, moved, etc.

 

[Superayate]

Lol... Talent?

Looks at Watchdogs Legion:

Looks at Control:

One looks like an early last gen visual mess (it's worse looking that WD2), the other even on last gen hardware is absolutely stunning... are you really surprised WD:Legion has more performance headroom for RT on XSS? It's not doing anywhere near as much as Control.

One of the two games is an open world, that's not negligible.

 

[DarkMage619]

Lol... Talent?

Looks at Watchdogs Legion:

Looks at Control:

One looks like an early last gen visual mess (it's worse looking that WD2), the other even on last gen hardware is absolutely stunning... are you really surprised WD:Legion has more performance headroom for RT on XSS? It's not doing anywhere near as much as Control.

If you say so. It doesn't change the fact that the $299 XSS was able to pull off raytracing something that wasn't done on any similar hardware. The system is very capable for the price you pay. A developer refusing to take the time to implement a feature is very different from platform being unable to do the feature.

 

[EMR]

Damn 505 Games putting sbox on blast

 

[Thirty7ven]

I LIKE that. I hope MS makes even more and better co-op games. I can't play Last of Us with my friends and that's why I don't have interest in it.

All the big multiplayer/co op games are on PlayStation. Indeed the big multiplayer games have bigger communities on PlayStation than on Xbox.

And then there’s a game like fall guys that comes out and becomes a huge sensation and no Xbox version.

Online racing? Gran Turismo.

Yes Sony invests big on single player and that’s actually pretty good because just like Nintendo, they making the games that third parties won’t make instead of MS that is constantly chasing the trends set by third parties.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

One of the two games is an open world, that's not negligible.

In this day and age it's a common fallacy.

That a game is open world is immaterial when 99% of games are built on the same streaming engine technology. The level of texture fidelity and geometric complexity in a given scene is a function of how much hardware resources are available to render the visible streamed portion of the world at any given moment, not a function of the overall size of the world on the disk.

It's no wonder some of the best looking games this gen are in fact open world: RDR2, Horizon ZD, Death Stranding etc etc etc. "Open world" isn't the technical challenge it once was, as practically all games now run on the same underlying technology.

If you say so. It doesn't change the fact that the $299 XSS was able to pull off raytracing something that wasn't done on any similar hardware. The system is very capable for the price you pay. A developer refusing to take the time to implement a feature is very different from platform being unable to do the feature.

Compared to the PS5DE, the XSS is trash value in terms of the performance vs price. "Very capable for the price" simply isn't a phrase I would expect in the same sentence as the XSS. It's serviceable at best.

Also, lol @ "A developer refusing to take the time to implement a feature is very different from platform being unable to do the feature."... you're really pushing this "lazy devs" narrative when the devs have outright come out and said "it's a hardware limitation not a limitation of the game".

Yeah, let's ignore all the facts and live in our own delusional lala land because the facts don't align with our own platform biases... pretty typical behavior, tbh.

 

[LiquidRex]

Realtime Ray Tracing on PS2

 

[BatSu]

 

[saintjules]

 

[saintjules]

Ooof. TLOU much?

 

[kyliethicc]

So this is just The Division + The Last of Us

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Lol... Talent?

Looks at Watchdogs Legion:

Looks at Control:

One looks like an early last gen visual mess (it's worse looking that WD2), the other even on last gen hardware is absolutely stunning... are you really surprised WD:Legion has more performance headroom for RT on XSS? It's not doing anywhere near as much as Control.

And yet we all know Watchdogs will sell millions while Control bombed. Ubisoft will be laughing all the way to the bank- again.

 

[Superayate]

In this day and age it's a common fallacy.

That a game is open world is immaterial when 99% of games are built on the same streaming engine technology. The level of texture fidelity and geometric complexity in a given scene is a function of how much hardware resources are available to render the visible streamed portion of the world at any given moment, not a function of the overall size of the world on the disk.

It's no wonder some of the best looking games this gen are in fact open world: RDR2, Horizon ZD, Death Stranding etc etc etc. "Open world" isn't the technical challenge it once was, as practically all games now run on the same underlying technology.

You really think that these games are more best looking than GoW, TLOU2, Uncharted 4, etc... ?

 

[SportsFan581]

I assume the crux of the matter is, that compute doesn’t scale with resolution. The number crunching is just not there on S GPU compared to X. If the game is heavily compute based, there is just nothing left in the tank on S.

I always considered such a thing may come into play, where the GPU is deployed for other tasks - e.g. calculating physics, collisions, etc, not just pixels. And the S will either need to do less in a game - or more often hold back compute progress on the big boy.

Clearly not the case here though as the system is scaling just fine with the resolution alone (PS5 and XSX at only 1440p at 60fps with no RT vs. the XSS at 900p at 60fps with no RT).

The biggest limiter on RT is memory bandwidth, RT is going to get left off in most cases on XSS just because of this alone.

 

[EMR]

So this is just The Division + The Last of Us

+ Spider-Man PS4's Puddles

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yes Sony invests big on single player and that’s actually pretty good because just like Nintendo, they making the games that third parties won’t make instead of MS that is constantly chasing the trends set by third parties.

Sony mostly makes single-player open world games... and there's nothing wrong with that, but they are, gameplay wise, not a lot different from other SP open world games.

They just tend to have more story content; which TBH I could do without. Would love to see Sony's resources put towards open world games that are more gameplay focused; Days Gone is a good start. Give me a full blown military open world like Ghost Recon from Sony and I'd be thrilled.

edit: sorry this post is badly exagerated as pointed out by Thirty7ven

 

[onesvenus]

That a game is open world is immaterial when 99% of games are built on the same streaming engine technology. The level of texture fidelity and geometric complexity in a given scene is a function of how much hardware resources are available to render the visible streamed portion of the world at any given moment, not a function of the overall size of the world on the disk.

While that's true, it's also true that open world games usually have larger views than non open world games. The detail you can render is a lot different because for the same polygon and texturing budget you are rendering a much bigger view.

Saying that being open world is immaterial is not really true, IMO, there are a lot of considerations to be taken into account.

 

[BatSu]

Ooof. TLOU much?

joel division

 

[SportsFan581]

^ So true. Anything set in a confined indoor environment has the potential to really turn up the details, if the dev is capable.

 

[LiquidRex]

Joel Mod pending, for those that want TLOU2 to be nothing but a bad dream.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Sony mostly makes single-player open world games... and there's nothing wrong with that, but they are, gameplay wise, not a lot different from other SP open world games.

They just tend to have more story content; which TBH I could do without. Would love to see Sony's resources put towards open world games that are more gameplay focused; Days Gone is a good start. Give me a full blown military open world like Ghost Recon from Sony and I'd be thrilled.

I don’t agree and a look at their published games last gen and heading into this gen, the evidence does not support the theory. Is Demon Souls an open world game? Is Destruction All stars an open world game? Ratchet? Returnal? Sackboy? Astro? Was TLOU2? God Of War? Uncharted ? The list goes on and on.

And then if we look at their open world games, should we really come to the conclusion that Spider-Man, Days Gone, Horizon, and Death Steanding play the same? That doesn’t make much sense.

Should they bring back SOCOM, as that is a franchise with a lot of potential? Sure.

 

[LucidFlux]

You really think that these games are more best looking than GoW, TLOU2, Uncharted 4, etc... ?

While that's true, it's also true that open world games usually have larger views than non open world games. The detail you can render is a lot different because for the same polygon and texturing budget you are rendering a much bigger view.

Saying that being open world is immaterial is not really true, IMO, there are a lot of considerations to be taken into account.

While TheThreadsThatBindUs is right in that the underlying technical foundations are becoming largely ubiquitous across engines and genres, the biggest differentiator is the vast amount of unique assets that need to be created to populate the larger open worlds. It's the extra attention to detail more linear games can afford to implement thanks to their often smaller and more deliberately laid out game spaces. It's what helps elevate them visually a notch above open world games, even though they may not be any more technically impressive.

 

[LiquidRex]

such a shame.

 

[LiquidRex]

Realtime Ray Tracing on PS2

I can't help but be fascinated by this.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I don’t agree and a look at their published games last gen and heading into this gen, the evidence does not support the theory. Is Demon Souls an open world game? Is Destruction All stars an open world game? Ratchet? Returnal? Sackboy? Astro? Was TLOU2? God Of War? Uncharted ? The list goes on and on.

I'll give you that; they make a lot of other types of games.. many of their biggest are the open world ones, I guess maybe they are the ones I care about lol I also was mainly talking about their internal studios and not really thinking of games like Returnal or Death Stranding.

And then if we look at their open world games, should we really come to the conclusion that Spider-Man, Days Gone, Horizon, and Death Steanding play the same? That doesn’t make much sense.

I've never played Death Stranding.. but yeah Sony's open world games generally share quite a few similarities. Particularly Spider-Man, Days Gone and Ghosts of Tsushima. Some of these same things are also common in their 3rd person non-open world action games. Like forced walking/talking sections, "follow missions", detective mode stuff, and sections where you play as another useless character or your character becomes useless and it's worse than an unskippable cutscene (Sony likes those too.)

Not that I ever said they were all exactly the same or anything; but they have some really formulaic missions and some really formulaic similarities. Sony for their internally developed games as of late has been banking on "what has worked in the past." They also fund some more unique stuff, and still do the dinky platformer thing.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[SlimySnake]

Sony mostly makes single-player open world games... and there's nothing wrong with that, but they are, gameplay wise, not a lot different from other SP open world games.

They just tend to have more story content; which TBH I could do without. Would love to see Sony's resources put towards open world games that are more gameplay focused; Days Gone is a good start. Give me a full blown military open world like Ghost Recon from Sony and I'd be thrilled.

i love sony's story focused games, but I also loved their PS3 shooters. I found them to be a lot more enjoyable than COD, BF and other third party shooters. MAG, Socom, Resistance 3, Killzone 2 and Killzone 3, warhawk were all fantastic games that couldve used sequels or reimaginings. These studios had great FPS and MP talent that just went to waste.

I hate played Destiny for almost 2000 hours because there were no good alternatives. I am a 100% certain a Sony studio wouldve made a better PvE shooter, or at least one that wasnt as cheap and grindy as Destiny.

 

[EMR]

Then PS Now is the new PS Plus?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Then PS Now is the new PS Plus?

WTF! Literally that.

 

[Dabaus]

Then PS Now is the new PS Plus?

What I dont get about sony is that ps now has alot of good content but they barely seem to promote it. Like it doesnt get updated as often as game pass but it has alot of stuff worth playing. If they tried they could probably have 5-6 million subscribers easily, thatd be 50-60 million extra a month then multiply that by 12. And thats actual, real 10 dollars a month not 1 dollar subs and poptart box coupons.

Maybe third parties are seeing sales collapse on xbox because of gamepass and have told sony to slow down on this whole subscription thing? I think thats the most likely scenario.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

You really think that these games are more best looking than GoW, TLOU2, Uncharted 4, etc... ?

There's not much in it between them all. They're all top tier in terms of visuals. And that's my point. It isn't like previous gens where there was a massive gulf in visual fidelity between linear vs open world.

As it pertains to visuals, this "linear vs open world" dichotomy largely doesn't exist anymore.

Clearly not the case here though as the system is scaling just fine with the resolution alone (PS5 and XSX at only 1440p at 60fps with no RT vs. the XSS at 900p at 60fps with no RT).

The biggest limiter on RT is memory bandwidth, RT is going to get left off in most cases on XSS just because of this alone.

Actually RT scales strongly with resolution. The per rays sampled per pixel rate, is just as important coherent vs non-coherent rays as it pertains to the memory bandwidth limitation.

Given that RT is limited to reflections and soft-shadowing for current-gen consoles, you're probably still right that memory bandwidth is the bigger limitation on the consoles, but resolution also matters, and reducing rendering res can net not insignificant perf. gains for RT too.

All that said, for a game like control that boasts heavily compute-based (non-RT) dynamic lighting, it's no wonder XSS doesn't quite provide sufficient grunt to accommodate the lighting system as well as RT. They'd probably have to drop resolution to something obscene like 560p to accommodate both, and as a developer, I can understand them making the decision to just not include RT. The cost vs overall visual benefit equation just doesn't make sense.

While that's true, it's also true that open world games usually have larger views than non open world games. The detail you can render is a lot different because for the same polygon and texturing budget you are rendering a much bigger view.

Saying that being open world is immaterial is not really true, IMO, there are a lot of considerations to be taken into account.

That's not always true either.

View distance is less important than visible geometric and texture detail (i.e. limited mostly by RAM). LOD systems, dynamic tessellation, the use of imposters, fog/mist and other such techniques can help get around these limitations too.

The vast majority of data kept in RAM and processed during rendering, will be for texture, geometry and lighting data for assets closer to the player. GPUs simply aren't by design very efficient at rendering stuff far away, so devs will use every trick in the book to limit distant detail as much as possible. This true for both linear and open-world games.

While TheThreadsThatBindUs is right in that the underlying technical foundations are becoming largely ubiquitous across engines and genres, the biggest differentiator is the vast amount of unique assets that need to be created to populate the larger open worlds. It's the extra attention to detail more linear games can afford to implement thanks to their often smaller and more deliberately laid out game spaces. It's what helps elevate them visually a notch above open world games, even though they may not be any more technically impressive.

You're right, but the uniqueness of assets in linear vs open world games is more of a game dev budget issue in more cases than it isn't these days.

Yes, RAM capacity and I/O can be limiting with respect to this, but given that in both cases (linear vs open world) you're working within the same hardware limitations, more aggressive LOD systems for open world games often prove to help close any gap between the two.

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

i love sony's story focused games, but I also loved their PS3 shooters. I found them to be a lot more enjoyable than COD, BF and other third party shooters. MAG, Socom, Resistance 3, Killzone 2 and Killzone 3, warhawk were all fantastic games that couldve used sequels or reimaginings. These studios had great FPS and MP talent that just went to waste.

I hate played Destiny for almost 2000 hours because there were no good alternatives. I am a 100% certain a Sony studio wouldve made a better PvE shooter, or at least one that wasnt as cheap and grindy as Destiny.

I wish Sony would have let SSM continue working on that open-world sci-fi TPS (Destiny-like) game they were working on. The concept art was rad.

They canned it precisely because of it's similarity with Destiny they had signed the marketing deal with Bungie/Acti for. It sucks, because as much as I enjoy playing D2, I feel like this game had the potential to be miles better. And SSM's have the pedigree to pull something like this off.

 

[LiquidRex]

 

[saintjules]

Either that or to prevent conflict with Kena. I think that was slated for March as well.

 

[SlimySnake]

I wish Sony would have let SSM continue working on that open-world sci-fi TPS (Destiny-like) game they were working on. The concept art was rad.

They canned it precisely because of it's similarity with Destiny they had signed the marketing deal with Bungie/Acti for. It sucks, because as much as I enjoy playing D2, I feel like this game had the potential to be miles better. And SSM's have the pedigree to pull something like this off.

Man that art looks so much more inspired than Destiny. 2014 was a rough year for Sony. They did Stig dirty. Amy too.

At least we got Star Wars Fallen Order out of it. Poor Amy didnt even get to make her star wars game.

Hopefully someone over at Sony realizes that they missed out big time on the battle royale craze. Fortnite and Warzone's success proves that PubG and battle royale wasnt a fad. Warzone to me is one of the best games of the year because they figured out how to make battle royale fun. I think Insomniac, Zipper and Guerrilla had enough talent to get there before Warzone. Next gen CPUs should allow for massive destruction in a scale never possible before. I see that DICE is already going there. We need a single player version of this from Sony studios. Thousands of enemies on screen. I dont care if its WW2 or something futuristic like KZ2. I want first person shooter campaigns to finally pull off Saving Private Ryan.

 

[Dibils2k]

i am way more understanding of delays in current times

but also.. where the fuck Ratchet! launch window my ass

 

[LucidFlux]

You're right, but the uniqueness of assets in linear vs open world games is more of a game dev budget issue in more cases than it isn't these days.

Yes, RAM capacity and I/O can be limiting with respect to this, but given that in both cases (linear vs open world) you're working within the same hardware limitations, more aggressive LOD systems for open world games often prove to help close any gap between the two.

Yep that's exactly what I'm getting at. Since the linear game is by nature more focused it leads to more intricately dressed play spaces. While an open world game with the same theoretical budget and manpower is spread much more thin and can't apply the same density and uniqueness to a larger world.

 

[devilNprada]

It's the same as your Xperia 1ii but with hdmi in and 5g millimetre-wave beam-forming antenna's, it's made for a extremely niche market

Mine is not 5g in the US which is why I wanted to delay buying a phone...

 

[DarkMage619]

All the big multiplayer/co op games are on PlayStation. Indeed the big multiplayer games have bigger communities on PlayStation than on Xbox.

And then there’s a game like fall guys that comes out and becomes a huge sensation and no Xbox version.

Online racing? Gran Turismo.

Yes Sony invests big on single player and that’s actually pretty good because just like Nintendo, they making the games that third parties won’t make instead of MS that is constantly chasing the trends set by third parties.

The biggest reasons to play PlayStation is for their single player, 3rd person titles. 3rd party titles are everywhere and I doubt someone going to pick up a cheap console will ask which system has sold more so I can play with the largest community. On top of that for games like Fortnite I don't think PlayStation players play alone so with it being cross platform the largest seller won't matter. Finally Forza has surpassed Gran Turismo in popularity and quality so if racing games were my thing I would NOT count on Sony to deliver that for me.

Compared to the PS5DE, the XSS is trash value in terms of the performance vs price. "Very capable for the price" simply isn't a phrase I would expect in the same sentence as the XSS. It's serviceable at best.

Also, lol @ "A developer refusing to take the time to implement a feature is very different from platform being unable to do the feature."... you're really pushing this "lazy devs" narrative when the devs have outright come out and said "it's a hardware limitation not a limitation of the game".

Yeah, let's ignore all the facts and live in our own delusional lala land because the facts don't align with our own platform biases... pretty typical behavior, tbh.

I disagree. For the target audience XSS is a better deal than the PS5 DE especially since f2p games will truly be free on the XSS. You would be better making the argument that the PS5 DE is a better deal than the XSX over the XSS. If saving money is the goal of a casual gamer they will not want to pay an additional $100 for the privilege of playing on a Sony platform. The technical advantages will not outweigh the extra cost especially seeing how to this very day you cannot expand PS5 game storage AT ALL and we are 3 months in to this generation. With f2p games being free now and Gamepass, the service hated by Sony fans, but popular with normal people, XSS is a very attractive offer for the casual gamer. You might want to look in the mirror with your last statement.

 

[NewChoppa]

Finally Forza has surpassed Gran Turismo in popularity

Not sure about this one my guy.



6 months ago, 1 million views



7 months ago, 9.1 million views

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I disagree. For the target audience XSS is a better deal than the PS5 DE especially since f2p games will truly be free on the XSS. You would be better making the argument that the PS5 DE is a better deal than the XSX over the XSS. If saving money is the goal of a casual gamer they will not want to pay an additional $100 for the privilege of playing on a Sony platform. The technical advantages will not outweigh the extra cost especially seeing how to this very day you cannot expand PS5 game storage AT ALL and we are 3 months in to this generation. With f2p games being free now and Gamepass, the service hated by Sony fans, but popular with normal people, XSS is a very attractive offer for the casual gamer. You might want to look in the mirror with your last statement.

Gotta move that goal post

Like he said, PS5DE shits on the Series S in terms of Price/Performance. Not even debateable.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Yep that's exactly what I'm getting at. Since the linear game is by nature more focused it leads to more intricately dressed play spaces. While an open world game with the same theoretical budget and manpower is spread much more thin and can't apply the same density and uniqueness to a larger world.

This is only true when the two are limited by the same budget and dev time constraints. Given how the gaming business generally works, Open World games are seen as bigger projects with greater appeal and thus end up being some of the most expensive games out there. So my point rests mostly on this, that open world games naturally having larger budgets are able to pack in a similar amount of detail as more focused linear titles.

Games like RDR2 I think demonstrate this aptly. The game is one of the best looking games this past gen, has incredible attention to detail, rivalling even ND's latest labour of love, and yet it probably cost Rockstar 2-3 times more to make as a consequence (but also probably went on to sell 2-2.5x the number of copies thus justifying the publisher investment).

 

[Hashi]

Wanna buy my A7r4???

I have tested 7rm4 and for me it doesnt have wow factor. Alpha 9 does, 7s (all series) and A1.

 

[Hashi]

Wrong. Gamepass costs 0.

 

[LiquidRex]

WIPO - Search International and National Patent Collections

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