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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
saintjules said:
Expected

Click to expand...

PC hardware shortages make no sense to me. I would love to see how many GPUs Nvidia have sold because i get the feeling its under 50k.

I can at least understand console sales because both Sony and MS have to sell 10+ million every year and need to rely on other parts outside of the GPU and VRAM. Manufacturing GPUs should be far easier.
 
TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
SlimySnake said:
PC hardware shortages make no sense to me. I would love to see how many GPUs Nvidia have sold because i get the feeling its under 50k.

I can at least understand console sales because both Sony and MS have to sell 10+ million every year and need to rely on other parts outside of the GPU and VRAM. Manufacturing GPUs should be far easier.
Click to expand...
Makes sense for AMD's shortages, the consoles are hogging a majority of TSMC's 7nm production and their discreet GPU's will suffer.

I don't have a clue what's going on with Nvidia, since they are using Samsung's 8nm process. There really should not be an excuse. Rumours are swirling though that Nvidia want to switch to TSMC's 5nm process for their upcoming Lovelace and Hopper architectures.
 
HoofHearted

HoofHearted

Member
Yeesh - the back and forth and worrying about whether Bethesda titles will be exclusive or not on PS. Or Microsoft's vision and long term view... These have all already been discussed in various interviews if you just read..

The writing's on the wall:

“Is it possible to recoup a $7.5 billion investment if you don’t sell Elder Scrolls VI on the PlayStation?”

“Yes,”

“I don’t want to be flip about that, this deal was not done to take games away from another player base like that. Nowhere in the documentation that we put together was: ‘How do we keep other players from playing these games?’ We want more people to be able to play games, not fewer people to be able to go play games. But I’ll also say in the model—I’m just answering directly the question that you had—when I think about where people are going to be playing and the number of devices that we had, and we have xCloud and PC and Game Pass and our console base, I don’t have to go ship those games on any other platform other than the platforms that we support in order to kind of make the deal work for us. Whatever that means.”

....

“I think the people who want to pit us against Sony based on who sold the most consoles lose the context of what gaming is about today. There are 3 billion people who play games on the planet today, but maybe [only] 200 million households that have a video game console. In a way, the console space is becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall gaming pie.”

... and finally..

Recently however, Bethesda has been working more tightly with Sony. Bethesda had previously agreed to debut two of its upcoming games, Deathloop and Ghostwire: Tokyo, on Sony’s new PlayStation rather than Xbox. Both games were announced as “timed console exclusives,” meaning that they would be restricted to the PlayStation 5 for a fixed period of time before coming to Xbox.

Microsoft will keep that commitment, Spencer said in an interview. Future games, like Starfield, will be available for Xbox, PC and Microsoft’s Game Pass video-game service. “We’ll take other consoles on a case-by-case basis,” Spencer said.

Nadella said Microsoft may consider releasing games on other platforms in the future. “When we think about strategy whether it’s in gaming or any other part of Microsoft, each layer has to stand on its own for what it brings. When we talk about our content we want our content to be broadly available.”

Shorter answer:

  • Aside from the 2 games noted above, expect everything else to be (by default) "exclusive" to Xbox platform(s).
  • Certainly - there may (will?) be the possibility of future Bethesda games to be available to PS - but don't expect it.
  • It's clear that Microsoft is pursuing a much larger and broader transition to GaaS.
    • This strategy is about control of the market - not about which plastic boxes play which games.
    • If there's going to be any semblance of future XGS games (including Bethesda) made available on PS4/5 - expect to see these titles used as leverage to establish a much broader agreement/deal with Sony for enabling XGP on Sony's platform(s).
  • Caveat - most business plans operate on a 2-year model and evaluate progress on what's to focus on for the next 2 years
    • To that end - we're now in year 0.5 of 2 for the Xbox Platform/GaaS/XGP approach
    • Depending on overall success of the above in 2022 - either all bets are off (and XGP caves) - or continued expansion and leverage will remain
    • Considering the growth over the past year of XGP - progress seems to be as expected or better? Who knows..
 
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MistBreeze

MistBreeze

Member
DaGwaphics said:
That's a wall right there.

Those that make asinine statements about MS being unable to lose 50% sales from Bethesda games just hasn't looked at the math at all. On an average year they've been taking in 500m in revenue, even if half of that is from PS that's only 250m, which is nothing to MS. Say they have a big launch and post 2b in revenue (would be big historically for them), and again take half, it's still only 1b. If MS can increase the reach of their platform, even modestly, they can easily cover the lost PS revenue and then some. Goosing a 4-5b per quarter business by even 5 or 10% would net a much bigger win for them. LOL

The platforms have greater earning potential than the publishers/developers, always have. There are some rare caveats (Fortnite/Epic), but that's not easy to do.
Click to expand...

Im with you friend but even if ur calculations are right and we presume microsoft will get 250m from playstation and u say it is nothing for microsoft

I can argue even 1b is nothing for microsoft it is a 2 trillion dollar company after all but this is not how business works

250m is not a small amount of money

we witnessed how microsoft tried to double live gold prices even this will only get them small amount of money in short term there is nothing enough for these companies

I argue even sony would release their first party games on every platform if they did not sell enough consoles or if they shift their goal from selling hardware to services

even nintindo
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
villentretenmerth said:
Makes sense for AMD's shortages, the consoles are hogging a majority of TSMC's 7nm production and their discreet GPU's will suffer.

I don't have a clue what's going on with Nvidia, since they are using Samsung's 8nm process. There really should not be an excuse. Rumours are swirling though that Nvidia want to switch to TSMC's 5nm process for their upcoming Lovelace and Hopper architectures.
Click to expand...
gotta love how Nvidia stock is at $500 even though they havent announced any sales figures for their latest gen cards. Jayz2Cents was saying how they shipped like 2,000 3080s for launch.

But hey, Nvidia is an A.I company now according to Wallstreet. No need to actually sell your marquee products. And they call GME stock buying a scam. lol
 
Lunatic_Gamer

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member

Hitman 3 recoups project costs in under a week
​

"It has been a labor of love between our fans and everyone at the studio. As the developer and publisher, we are immensely proud that we can say Hitman 3 is already profitable. We have recouped the total project costs in less than a week. That puts us in a really good place and allows us to confidently move forward with our ambitious plans for future projects."
Click to expand...

www.gamesindustry.biz

Hitman 3 recoups project costs in under a week

Hitman 3 is already profitable, IO Interactive has announced. The stealth game launched last week, immediately shot to …
www.gamesindustry.biz www.gamesindustry.biz
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lunatic_Gamer said:

Hitman 3 recoups project costs in under a week​

​



www.gamesindustry.biz

Hitman 3 recoups project costs in under a week

Hitman 3 is already profitable, IO Interactive has announced. The stealth game launched last week, immediately shot to …
www.gamesindustry.biz www.gamesindustry.biz
Click to expand...
Just goes to show that games aren't super expensive to make. The problem with most companies is that they try to market them like summer blockbuster movies and end up spending double the development budget on marketing.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
M1chl said:
Yeah but I like co-op, I hate that it's vanishing.... I like that MS is keeping it.
Click to expand...
I like coop too. I have like 2000 hours in Destiny and Destiny 2. I just think it needs to be its own separate mode. Gears has had horde since Gears 2. Halo Reach had firestrike or whatever they called it. I think thats far more ideal than watering down the single player experience for coop. Look at what happened to RE campaigns when they added coop.

I do think they at least one GaaS game like Destiny. All PvE. Make that entire game coop. I just dont want every game of theirs to be PvE. Halo 5, Sea Of Thieves, Gears 4, Gears 5, State Of Decay 2... I think Ori and Crackdown are the only non coop games they have released in the last few years. They were even trying to make Fable and Scalebound into coop games before they cancelled them.
 
DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
I'm looking forward to the next wave of big Playstation exclusive 3rd Person SP, story driven titles:







Click to expand...

The reason people buy PlayStation isn't to play Destruction All stars. It's s to play their stable of single player, 3rd person titles. In fact it's been stated here numerous times that people on PlayStation prefer to play single player games. Xbox games tend to be multi-player PlayStation single. We'll see how well MS does when their big single player games start hitting.

SlimySnake said:
I like coop too. I have like 2000 hours in Destiny and Destiny 2. I just think it needs to be its own separate mode. Gears has had horde since Gears 2. Halo Reach had firestrike or whatever they called it. I think thats far more ideal than watering down the single player experience for coop. Look at what happened to RE campaigns when they added coop.

I do think they at least one GaaS game like Destiny. All PvE. Make that entire game coop. I just dont want every game of theirs to be PvE. Halo 5, Sea Of Thieves, Gears 4, Gears 5, State Of Decay 2... I think Ori and Crackdown are the only non coop games they have released in the last few years. They were even trying to make Fable and Scalebound into coop games before they cancelled them.
Click to expand...
I LIKE that. I hope MS makes even more and better co-op games. I can't play Last of Us with my friends and that's why I don't have interest in it.
 
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M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
SlimySnake said:
I like coop too. I have like 2000 hours in Destiny and Destiny 2. I just think it needs to be its own separate mode. Gears has had horde since Gears 2. Halo Reach had firestrike or whatever they called it. I think thats far more ideal than watering down the single player experience for coop. Look at what happened to RE campaigns when they added coop.

I do think they at least one GaaS game like Destiny. All PvE. Make that entire game coop. I just dont want every game of theirs to be PvE. Halo 5, Sea Of Thieves, Gears 4, Gears 5, State Of Decay 2... I think Ori and Crackdown are the only non coop games they have released in the last few years. They were even trying to make Fable and Scalebound into coop games before they cancelled them.
Click to expand...
I actually hold RE5 really close to my heart, I think it's the best RE. So I disagree and that's fine. I like the diversity, I like that both companies offer something different. If you feel me
 
F

Fishake

Neo Member
Physiognomonics said:
I am predicting a decently optimized PS5 version. The PS4 version was patched with immense improvements after launch.
Click to expand...
  • Performance Mode – Targets 60fps performance with 1440p render resolution and 4K output
  • Graphics Mode – Targets 30fps performance with ray tracing (transparency and reflections) at 1220p render resolution and 4K output
    • NOTE: Only the Performance mode is available on Xbox Series S. It is targeting 60fps with no ray tracing, at 900p render resolution, and 1080p output. This is a limitation of the hardware, not the game.
  • PS5 DualSense Support – Support for vibrations and triggers.
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
villentretenmerth said:
Makes sense for AMD's shortages, the consoles are hogging a majority of TSMC's 7nm production and their discreet GPU's will suffer.

I don't have a clue what's going on with Nvidia, since they are using Samsung's 8nm process. There really should not be an excuse. Rumours are swirling though that Nvidia want to switch to TSMC's 5nm process for their upcoming Lovelace and Hopper architectures.
Click to expand...
Could be unexpectedly low yields?

I can see why Samsung wouldn't want to ramp up production to full capacity if the yields were bad. So it would certainly explain the parts shortages.

Samsung's process has been largely unproven for products in this performance category. So i'd be unsurprised to hear they've been struggling to compete with TSMC.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
SlimySnake said:
PC hardware shortages make no sense to me. I would love to see how many GPUs Nvidia have sold because i get the feeling its under 50k.

I can at least understand console sales because both Sony and MS have to sell 10+ million every year and need to rely on other parts outside of the GPU and VRAM. Manufacturing GPUs should be far easier.
Click to expand...
You know the biggest seller ship from nVidia is not the high end ones.

RTX 2060 and below are the chips in mass production... and you don’t see shortage no matter the millions that keep buying them.

GTX 1060 was a big seller for example.
 
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TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
The possibility of PS5's custom Cache Scrubbers being incorporated into RDNA 3

LeviathanGamer2's take:




Today MLiD also had a senior software engineer and they discussed some of it, I've added in the quotes but couldn't make out 1 or 2 words so I've added in the time stamped links as well.

Software Engineer: You want to focus more on average bandwidth, or in particular latency and general efficiency rather than just raw bandwidth and to some degree brute forcing things can help but something that's come up, on the PS5 they've talked about this thing on the GPU that clears the caches on loading stuff...and that's basically something you have to do when your doing DMA and your modern CPU will have efficient support for DMA, but that's being added to GPU's now and they need better optimisation for that...

I actually looked through RDNA 2 instruction set and I noticed they had things for clearing the whole cache but I couldn't see anything for selective cache clearing so that does seem to be PS5 specific...and that specific example, they might just copy it from PS5...and the reason you need to clear the cache is if you've sneakily transferred something from the background into main memory and you have a copy of the old data in cache that's now stale, you need to clear it from the cache if it is in the cache and if you don't know it's in the cache, the only thing you can safely do is to clear the cache or accept the fact that you're going to have graphics glitches. I'm not going to promise which way AMD will implement it into RDNA 3 but one of those two will be very likely


 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
DarkMage619 said:
Compared to playing it safe and sticking with another 3rd person, single player, story driven title. Like I said to each his own some like variety some perfer to stick to the same thing. Neither is wrong.
Click to expand...
Nintendo has almost never made a first person game and yet no one seems to care. They sell millions.

Only ones I can think of are Metroid Prime 1-3. And those are quite old now.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
SlimySnake said:
PC hardware shortages make no sense to me. I would love to see how many GPUs Nvidia have sold because i get the feeling its under 50k.

I can at least understand console sales because both Sony and MS have to sell 10+ million every year and need to rely on other parts outside of the GPU and VRAM. Manufacturing GPUs should be far easier.
Click to expand...
The bottleneck for all of it is TSMC. Every PS5, XSX, XSS, every AMD 6000 GPU, every AMD Zen CPU, and more ALL use TSMC 7nm wafers and TSMC can only produce so many at once. TSMC have to supply Apple with all of their silicon too, as its one of TSMC's biggest clients. Only so many dies can be made per wafer and AMD can only manage to get so many wafers from TSMC.

But why are Nvidia GPU's so hard to buy when they're made at Samsung instead of TSMC? Idk. Seems like they didn't yield great, also rumors say Nvidia are selling GPUs to bitcoin miners instead of gamers.
 
SportsFan581

SportsFan581

Member
MistBreeze said:
Im with you friend but even if ur calculations are right and we presume microsoft will get 250m from playstation and u say it is nothing for microsoft

I can argue even 1b is nothing for microsoft it is a 2 trillion dollar company after all but this is not how business works

250m is not a small amount of money

we witnessed how microsoft tried to double live gold prices even this will only get them small amount of money in short term there is nothing enough for these companies

I argue even sony would release their first party games on every platform if they did not sell enough consoles or if they shift their goal from selling hardware to services

even nintindo
Click to expand...

It depends on the motivation behind that attempted price increase. Was it about $$$ directly? Unlikely, since they grandfathered anyone with an active subscription. Was it about discouraging the use of Gold in favor of GPU? Much, much more likely. I don't doubt that they want to push users on to GP/GPU, that is their focus across PC/console/mobile.
 
R

roops67

Member
devilNprada said:
When they releasing this?

Fuck man I just completely ruined my XZ premium and replaced it with the Xperia 1 ii.
I wanted to hold out for this but just didn't.
I should have just suffered with an older I phone for a couple months!!!!!!
Click to expand...
It's the same as your Xperia 1ii but with hdmi in and 5g millimetre-wave beam-forming antenna's, it's made for a extremely niche market
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Damn 505 Games putting sbox on blast

h14xxoq.jpg
 
DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
ZehDon said:
Damn man, they just highlighed that the tiny lesser spec-ed cheaper console can't keep up with the larger higher-spec-ed more expensive console. Fuck. Microsoft must be in full damage control mode right now - 505 Games just fucking clowned them, yo.
Click to expand...
Coupled with the earnings news I'm not sure how MS stays in business.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
ZehDon said:
Damn man, they just highlighed that the tiny lesser spec-ed cheaper console can't keep up with the larger higher-spec-ed more expensive console. Fuck. Microsoft must be in full damage control mode right now - 505 Games just fucking clowned them, yo.
Click to expand...
Its just funny how they specifically chose to write "this is on the hardware not our game" instead of just diplomatically not saying why it can't have ray tracing or even 1080p native, etc.Its rare nowadays to see a publisher so blunt.

I never said 505 clowned anyone, nor implied so. I also never said the performance gap was surprising. I also never even considered that Microsoft would need to do damage control for such a thing lol.

But great job projecting your insecurities.
 
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SportsFan581

SportsFan581

Member
ZehDon said:
Damn man, they just highlighed that the tiny lesser spec-ed cheaper console can't keep up with the larger higher-spec-ed more expensive console. Fuck. Microsoft must be in full damage control mode right now - 505 Games just fucking clowned them, yo.
Click to expand...

Who would have thunk that the box that was billed as being the lower res box with a few graphical downgrades here and there would run the game at lower resolution and not support the RT mode. Mind blown.

Plus, it doesn't make any sense. So, whoever wrote it wasn't particularly bright. The hardware is capable of RT, as seen in other titles. The system can't handle THIS game with RT, thus it is the code itself that creates the issue. LOL
 
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Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
DaGwaphics said:
Who would have thunk that the box that was billed as being the lower res box with a few graphical downgrades here and there would run the game at lower resolution and not support the RT mode. Mind blown.

Plus, it doesn't make any sense. So, whoever wrote it wasn't particularly bright. The hardware is capable of RT, as seen in other titles. The system can't handle THIS game with RT, thus it is the code itself that creates the issue. LOL
Click to expand...
I assume the crux of the matter is, that compute doesn’t scale with resolution. The number crunching is just not there on S GPU compared to X. If the game is heavily compute based, there is just nothing left in the tank on S.

I always considered such a thing may come into play, where the GPU is deployed for other tasks - e.g. calculating physics, collisions, etc, not just pixels. And the S will either need to do less in a game - or more often hold back compute progress on the big boy.
 
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FrankWza

FrankWza

Member
Shmunter said:
I assume the crux of the matter is, that compute doesn’t scale with resolution. The number crunching is just not there on S GPU compared to X. If the game is heavily compute based, there is just nothing left in the tank on S.

I always considered such a thing may come into play, where the GPU is deployed for other tasks - e.g. calculating physics, collisions, etc, not just pixels. And the S will either need to do less in a game - or more often hold back compute progress on the big boy.
Click to expand...
If they put a drive in the s they could have kept the SSD at 500 gb and it would look like a much better purchase.
 
Zathalus

Zathalus

Member
kyliethicc said:
Damn 505 Games putting sbox on blast

h14xxoq.jpg
Click to expand...
Whats really embarrassing is the 1220p/30fps for the RT mode on both consoles.

Edit, apparently it is 1440p for both modes:

www.resetera.com

Control Ultimate Edition next-gen enhancements detailed News

Literally a typo, thats on me. Its 1440p in both modes. Performance Mode ·Targets 60fps performance with 1440p render resolution and 4K output Graphics Mode ·Targets 30fps performance with ray tracing (transparency and reflections) at 1440p render resolution and 4K output
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
 
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