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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
ZywyPL said:
"Fluid simulation on fog & vegetation, combined w/ global wind system creates effects "not possible" on last gen " - when I read that Killzone games on PS3 came into my mind... Just shows how hard PS4/XB1 pushed the entire industry back with their Jaguar CPU... But hey, that gives us high hopes for future games once cross-gen is over. 14 Zen2 threads, just imagine what devs will be able to do with it.
Click to expand...
14 Zen2 threads that are also, in comparison to last gen, unburdened by various audio and I/O workloads thanks to extra dedicated hardware.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Setsuna Mudou said:
Yes, it was a collaboration and obviously the lore and core story was Mitazaki's baby undoubtedly, it feels like Japan Studio were heavily involved. Especially as at the time they were between the Dark Souls 2 and 3 releases, I'm sure most of From was working on those. There's surely a reason why Japan Studio gets credited before From does.
However, the point is, they were involved in some of the most defining games of the last few generations. It's undeniable how Demon's Souls changed the gaming landscape and Bloodborne redefined it.

Comparing their output with, for example, Bend or Sony London is laughable. I'm not saying the restructuring is bad, I don't know enough details about it, but I don't agree with the downplaying of Japan Studio's relevance.
Click to expand...
Ass of Can Whooping said:
Sony's role was effectively technical support, QA and everything else that comes with being a publisher. That's it.

They were not involved in the creative process.
Click to expand...

Even then, I kinda doubt Sony did much tech help. Game still runs like ass ... and has no patch for PS4 Pro.

Because the actual devs (From Soft) didn't get to patch it or fix their engine because its not up to them post-launch. Sony just funded the game and published it. No one from Japan Studio ever even got around to patching it or fixing the frame rate.

100% of the game was developed by Miyazaki and the boys. Sony just cut the check. (Same with Activision on Sekiro.)

Saying Japan Studio made Bloodborne is like saying Guerrilla Games made Death Stranding... its false.
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
kyliethicc said:
Even then, I kinda doubt Sony did much tech help. Game still runs like ass ... and has no patch for PS4 Pro.

Because the actual devs (From Soft) didn't want to patch it or fix their engine. Sony just funded the game and published it.

100% of the game was developed by Miyazaki and the boys. Sony just cut the check. (Same with Activision on Sekiro.)
Click to expand...

Yup

Sony helped as much as they do with any of their external developer contracts

And in all honesty I never believed these collaboration stories. Do people really think it's a good idea to have two seperate studios developing a game together? Just sounds like a lot of creative head butting. That stuff can get bad enough with just one studio, nevermind two of them.
 
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Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
Ass of Can Whooping said:
Yup

Sony helped as much as they do with any of their external developer contracts

And in all honesty I never believed these collaboration stories. Do people really think it's a good idea to have two seperate studios developing a game together? Just sounds like a lot of creative head butting. That stuff can get bad enough with just one studio, nevermind two of them.
Click to expand...
Come on guys, stop downplaying what was clearly an important collaboration. From had DS2 released the year prior and DS3 released the year after BB. They did not have the manpower to actually do the whole work themselves.
I love From and Miyazaki as much, if not more, than anyone else, but that shouldn't take the credit away from those who should share it.

Besides, from the mouth of those in the know:

Bloodborne: making of

Japan Studio pitched the idea to Miyazaki, and then the game of the generation was made.
 
Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
Setsuna Mudou said:
Come on guys, stop downplaying what was clearly an important collaboration. From had DS2 released the year prior and DS3 released the year after BB. They did not have the manpower to actually do the whole work themselves.
I love From and Miyazaki as much, if not more, than anyone else, but that shouldn't take the credit away from those who should share it.

Besides, from the mouth of those in the know:

Bloodborne: making of

Japan Studio pitched the idea to Miyazaki, and then the game of the generation was made.
Click to expand...

Just look at the credits

Japan Studio did not play a significant role, and pitching an idea is just that, it's an idea. FROM did the heavy lifting
 
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F

FatKingBallman

Banned
kyliethicc said:
Even then, I kinda doubt Sony did much tech help. Game still runs like ass ... and has no patch for PS4 Pro.

Because the actual devs (From Soft) didn't get to patch it or fix their engine because its not up to them post-launch. Sony just funded the game and published it. No one from Japan Studio ever even got around to patching it or fixing the frame rate.

100% of the game was developed by Miyazaki and the boys. Sony just cut the check. (Same with Activision on Sekiro.)

Saying Japan Studio made Bloodborne is like saying Guerrilla Games made Death Stranding... its false.
Click to expand...

Ass of Can Whooping said:
Yup

Sony helped as much as they do with any of their external developer contracts

And in all honesty I never believed these collaboration stories. Do people really think it's a good idea to have two seperate studios developing a game together? Just sounds like a lot of creative head butting. That stuff can get bad enough with just one studio, nevermind two of them.
Click to expand...

Setsuna Mudou said:
Come on guys, stop downplaying what was clearly an important collaboration. From had DS2 released the year prior and DS3 released the year after BB. They did not have the manpower to actually do the whole work themselves.
I love From and Miyazaki as much, if not more, than anyone else, but that shouldn't take the credit away from those who should share it.

Besides, from the mouth of those in the know:

Bloodborne: making of

Japan Studio pitched the idea to Miyazaki, and then the game of the generation was made.
Click to expand...

Ass of Can Whooping said:
Just look at the credits

Japan Studio did not play a significant role, and pitching an idea is just that, it's an idea. FROM did the heavy lifting
Click to expand...

Well, you can't make a game if you don't have a plan and idea. It all starts from there.
 
Rudius

Rudius

Member
Mr Moose said:
And Syphon Filter, Twisted Metal, Resistance, maybe Silent Hill :pie_thinking: but that's way too much for just one studio to do remasters/remakes and stuff.
Click to expand...
I played some Destruction All Stars yesterday. It feels good to play and makes great use of the Dualsense, but the colorful style and lack of weapons decreased my enjoyment. I wish they had made a new Twisted Metal, but perhaps now Sony can give them the ip to work with? At least in the gameplay department it would be good.
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
SSfox said:
Everyone can have their ups and downs, So as Japan Studio, they made some of the best games of playstation brand, Santa Monica almost died 7 years ago, but Yosp and Adrew (THANKFULLY) give them a second chance and believe in them, and it resulted on having God Of War, Aka one of the best game ever, and one best game of the last decade imho. If it was Jimbo and Hermen they would have just closed the studio and go give that money to Bethesda for some random time exclusives.
Click to expand...

This is quite disingenuous.

Calling 2 to 3 straight gens of mostly irrelevance "ups and downs" is a gross understatement. Likewise, SSM never "nearly died", that's hyperbole. They had a major game cancelled and then had to go back to building a new God Of War. The studio survival was never in question, as SSM is one of Sony's biggest studios and even throughout the time they were working on their new IP with Stig at the helm, they were also working with third parties on additional games, e.g. ThatGameCompany.

Setsuna Mudou said:
Erm, for real?

Bloodborne-Game-of-the-Year-GOTY-PS4


Oh, and...

EMppkcDUUAACWVd.jpg


The original Demon's Souls too, together with From :)
Click to expand...

Errr.... wut?

These are third party games published by Sony Japan. Japan's input was minimal.

Setsuna Mudou said:
Yes, it was a collaboration and obviously the lore and core story was Mitazaki's baby undoubtedly, it feels like Japan Studio were heavily involved. Especially as at the time they were between the Dark Souls 2 and 3 releases, I'm sure most of From was working on those. There's surely a reason why Japan Studio gets credited before From does.
However, the point is, they were involved in some of the most defining games of the last few generations. It's undeniable how Demon's Souls changed the gaming landscape and Bloodborne redefined it.

Comparing their output with, for example, Bend or Sony London is laughable. I'm not saying the restructuring is bad, I don't know enough details about it, but I don't agree with the downplaying of Japan Studio's relevance.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you're moving the goal posts to (incorrectly) attribute more credit than is due to Sony Japan studio so as to try to justify their relevance as a dev studio over the past two to three gens. The fact you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel by pointing to their publishing efforts as a means to justify them as a dev studio only proves to buttress my point.

Their primary role in the past two decades has been as a publisher, so quite why so many posters online are trying to pretend they're this amazing first party development house is utterly baffling. Sony's restructuring is only about reforming them into what they've mostly been acting as, i.e. a publisher for third party games on PS. Publishing is the only thing they've been successful at outside of Asobi Team, PD and Fumito Ueda's team (which is now arguably third party); and as for the latter their commercial success is quite debatable.

I get that some gamers have a special place in their heart for quirky titles like The Puppeteer, Gravity Rush and Knack, but realistically, these games have added very little to the PS portfolio. If they never existed, would it have meaningfully impacted the success of the PS3, PS4 or PS5?.... Not really. It's sad but true. Whereas, games like Persona, Bloodborne, Demons Souls etc have been infinitely more important and impactful to the brand. As such, Sony is choosing to focus their Japanese division's efforts on third party collaborations like these. That's a good thing.

I'd much rather take one top-tier third party Japanese exclusive than another mediocre Japan Studio developed Knack.

I know... I should shut my filthy whore-son mouth... because Knack is GOAT and lyfe and all you bitches who deny it suck!!!!.
 
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Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
This is quite disingenuous.

Calling 2 to 3 straight gens of mostly irrelevance "ups and downs" is a gross understatement. Likewise, SSM never "nearly died", that's hyperbole. They had a major game cancelled and then had to go back to building a new God Of War. The studio survival was never in question, as SSM is one of Sony's biggest studios and even throughout the time they were working on their new IP with Stig at the helm, they were also working with third parties on additional games, e.g. ThatGameCompany.



Errr.... wut?

These are third party games published by Sony Japan. Japan's input was minimal.



Ok, so you're moving the goal posts to (incorrectly) attribute more credit than is due to Sony Japan studio so as to try to justify their relevance as a dev studio over the past two to three gens. The fact you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel by pointing to their publishing efforts as a means to justify them as a dev studio only proves to buttress my point.

Their primary role in the past two decades has been as a publisher, so quite why so many posters online are trying to pretend they're this amazing first party development house is utterly baffling. Sony's restructuring is only about reforming them into what they've mostly been acting as, i.e. a publisher for third party games on PS. Publishing is the only thing they've been successful at outside of Asobi Team, PD and Fumito Ueda's team (which is now arguably third party); and as for the latter their commercial success is quite debatable.

I get that some gamers have a special place in their heart for quirky titles like The Puppeteer, Gravity Rush and Knack, but realistically, these games have added very little to the PS portfolio. If they never existed, would it have meaningfully impacted the success of the PS3, PS4 or PS5?.... Not really. It's sad but true. Whereas, games like Persona, Bloodborne, Demons Souls etc have been infinitely more important and impactful to the brand. As such, Sony is choosing to focus their Japanese division's efforts on third party collaborations like these. That's a good thing.

I'd much rather take one top-tier third party Japanese exclusive than another mediocre Japan Studio developed Knack.

I know... I should shut my filthy whore-son mouth... because Knack is GOAT, Knack is lyfe bitches!!!!.
Click to expand...
Sorry, what goalpost am I moving exactly? I don't get it.
My entire point was to push back at the narrative of somehow making Japan studio as some irrelevant piece of the Sony WWS. They were involved in more games being released in Sony consoles than probably any other 1st part studio.
Does that mean they often provide a supporting role to other (3rd party) studios? Yes, of course. Are they involved in some of the most meaningful game releases of the past generations, absolutely.

I just don't agree with somehow having to put them down to give credit to other developers. Both can get credit, it's not an all or nothing.

And I repeat, I'm not saying the current restructuring is somehow bad, I honestly don't know. But I'm very used to see the Japan Studio logo on a lot of my favorite games ever and don't appreciate the downplaying I've seen in several posts recently.
 
sainraja

sainraja

Member
Rudius said:
I played some Destruction All Stars yesterday. It feels good to play and makes great use of the Dualsense, but the colorful style and lack of weapons decreased my enjoyment. I wish they had made a new Twisted Metal, but perhaps now Sony can give them the ip to work with? At least in the gameplay department it would be good.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the game feels good to play but the lack of weapons is definitely a miss and they tied hitting another car to a cool down which I didn't like; I mean, just give me boost and just ram into them burnout style or at-least show the car flying or something!
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
King Harkinian said:
Why this obsession with 120fps? 900p to achieve 120fps on a 65"+ tellie is the dumbest thing. Shadow pop in galore. It looks rough! Low AF value as well.

60fps, higher res. with better visuals?
#F*CK120FPS@900p_in_2021+_on_65"_4K_TV

hwcnFeG.png
A6JVmec.png
Click to expand...
they arent patching games. this is using Xbox's new technology to boost the framerate without requiring any real input from developers.

Maybe in the future, these xbox engineers can figure out a way to intercept the render resolution and boost it like they are doing here. its frankly quite an ingenious bit of engineering. Hopefully, Sony has something similar in the works because then we would no longer have to beg Sony for a 60 fps Bloodborne or Horizon patch. It will just work as a system toggle like supersampling or boost mode.
 
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TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
Setsuna Mudou said:
Sorry, what goalpost am I moving exactly? I don't get it.
My entire point was to push back at the narrative of somehow making Japan studio as some irrelevant piece of the Sony WWS. They were involved in more games being released in Sony consoles than probably any other 1st part studio.
Click to expand...

The whole discussion from the beginning was predicated on the point that Japan Studio hasn't developed anything notable in the past 25 years, outside of a few explicitly noted exceptions (i.e. PD, Asobi etc).

You're argument is, "b-b-but, they published some great games"

That's moving the goal posts because the primary criticism is against the studio's development efforts, not their publishing efforts.

You're arguing against something no-one is criticizing in the first place. You're tangentially expanding the scope of the discussion to include non-developed titles to try to prove their development value... that's the very definition of moving the goal posts.

Setsuna Mudou said:
Does that mean they often provide a supporting role to other (3rd party) studios? Yes, of course. Are they involved in some of the most meaningful game releases of the past generations, absolutely.

I just don't agree with somehow having to put them down to give credit to other developers. Both can get credit, it's not an all or nothing.
Click to expand...

What you're disagreeing with, nobody is arguing in the first place. No-body is arguing they haven't published great games. We're arguing they haven't developed great games.

Development =/= publishing/support.

It's not about who gets or doesn't get credit for what, it's about you misunderstanding the scope of the entire discussion... or you're just being disingenuous.

Setsuna Mudou said:
And I repeat, I'm not saying the current restructuring is somehow bad, I honestly don't know. But I'm very used to see the Japan Studio logo on a lot of my favorite games ever and don't appreciate the downplaying I've seen in several posts recently.
Click to expand...

Just because you see a logo on a splash screen, doesn't mean much in terms of the studio's contribution to the game. Everyone else in here is correctly delineating the differences in Japan Studio's involvement in the example games you mentioned. You're trying to argue that we should all shut our eyes to these facts and assess the value of Japan Studio as a developer based solely on the appearance of their logo on the intro of a game (many of which they've barely had any creative input into in reality).... i'm sorry but that's absurd.
 
Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
The whole discussion from the beginning was predicated on the point that Japan Studio hasn't developed anything notable in the past 25 years, outside of a few explicitly noted exceptions (i.e. PD, Asobi etc).

You're argument is, "b-b-but, they published some great games"

That's moving the goal posts because the primary criticism is against the studio's development efforts, not their publishing efforts.

You're arguing against something no-one is criticizing in the first place. You're tangentially expanding the scope of the discussion to include non-developed titles to try to prove their development value... that's the very definition of moving the goal posts.



What you're disagreeing with, nobody is arguing in the first place. No-body is arguing they haven't published great games. We're arguing they haven't developed great games.

Development =/= publishing/support.

It's not about who gets or doesn't get credit for what, it's about you misunderstanding the scope of the entire discussion... or you're just being disingenuous.



Just because you see a logo on a splash screen, doesn't mean much in terms of the studio's contribution to the game. Everyone else in here is correctly delineating the differences in Japan Studio's involvement in the example games you mentioned. You're trying to argue that we should all shut our eyes to these facts and assess the value of Japan Studio as a developer based solely on the appearance of their logo on the intro of a game (many of which they've barely had any creative input into in reality).... i'm sorry but that's absurd.
Click to expand...
I don't claim to know the extent of their involvement in development, how the hell could I? I only linked to an interview where they pretty much confirm they were pitching Bloodborne to Miyazaki. It's not me who claims to know more than they probably do.

Btw it's SIE that actually publishes the games, Studio Japan is a development studio, like Naughty Dog or Insomniac are, so yeah, let's be precise then.

Anyway, I'm happy to let the subject die as I guess we're apparently talking tangents.
 
Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member


The more I see of this game, the more I want to play it... But I know I won't be a fan of the type of game it is :messenger_weary:

sncvsrtoip said:


nxgamer guessing its not cb on ps5 "ps5 looks to be rendering at native resolution and saving that cost in terms of inner triangles and alpha effects in terms of artifacts around the edges thats why its cleaner sharper image than ps4pro"
Click to expand...

YouTube (or the capture software/card) is making that game look horrible in darker areas, especially on camera pans.
 
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TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
Neo Blaster said:
Unless they rework MGS gameplay, I don't think it will be a good representative of PS5 capabilities. All we had so far are crossgen games, multis and an exclusive game(Demon's Souls) with mechanics limited to what a 2-gen old console could do. Returnal and R&C will be the first true PS5 exclusives, built from the ground up to what it can do.
Click to expand...
From what I understand of RGT's comments, the game will be made from the ground up and be exclusive to PS5 (although it will likely come to PC as well but much later)

This means it'll pretty much be a new game, it's not like they can rework the code from the first Metal Gear from like 20 odd years ago. I think it's why Mark Cerny is also on board, the Bluepoint team would need an industry veterans guidance on such a big undertaking.
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
Setsuna Mudou said:
I don't claim to know the extent of their involvement in development, how the hell could I? I only linked to an interview where they pretty much confirm they were pitching Bloodborne to Miyazaki. It's not me who claims to know more than they probably do.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I'm not even accusing you of this. I'm only suggesting you're misunderstanding the arguments you're arguing against.

Setsuna Mudou said:
Btw it's SIE that actually publishes the games, Studio Japan is a development studio, like Naughty Dog or Insomniac are, so yeah, let's be precise then.
Click to expand...

Actually it's WWS that is the publishing arm of SIE, and the publishing function of the Japanese division of WWS exists within Japan Studio. So Japan Studio are acting both production support and publishing for third party games published by the Playstation umbrella.

Setsuna Mudou said:
Anyway, I'm happy to let the subject die as I guess we're apparently talking tangents.
Click to expand...

No problem.
 
Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
villentretenmerth said:
From what I understand of RGT's comments, the game will be made from the ground up and be exclusive to PS5 (although it will likely come to PC as well but much later)

This means it'll pretty much be a new game, it's not like they can rework the code from the first Metal Gear from like 20 odd years ago. I think it's why Mark Cerny is also on board, the Bluepoint team would need an industry veterans guidance on such a big undertaking.
Click to expand...
Is it supposed to be Shadow Moses alone? Would be awesome to get MGS2 in there...

Or so i thought until I remember who the main character would be o.0

FydAmkDU-600x338.jpg
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
sncvsrtoip said:


nxgamer guessing its not cb on ps5 "ps5 looks to be rendering at native resolution and saving that cost in terms of inner triangles and alpha effects in terms of artifacts around the edges thats why its cleaner sharper image than ps4pro"
Click to expand...

what the hell are inner triangles?

and are the alpha effects worse than the pro or on par with the pro?

also, he says he would talk about the ps5 performance mode's IQ later but he never did. Did he ever say if both PS5 versions have the same native resolution? Pretty sure John found that it had cb artifacts.
 
B

Bladed Thesis

Member
PSX said:
Elden Ring, April 19th was the release!? so I am assuming... trailer will pop up at any moment since they mentioned the delay for the pandemic,

I hate to say it "soon" hopefully!

"lollipop_disappointed:





oNMZQzN.jpg
Click to expand...

This is GameStop marketing materials and all their marketing materials go out with a Date Code. That Date Code is based on when the MARKETING was designed and prepped to go to stores. It has nothing to do with a launch date.
 
sncvsrtoip

sncvsrtoip

Member
SlimySnake said:
what the hell are inner triangles?

and are the alpha effects worse than the pro or on par with the pro?

also, he says he would talk about the ps5 performance mode's IQ later but he never did. Did he ever say if both PS5 versions have the same native resolution? Pretty sure John found that it had cb artifacts.
Click to expand...
both modes same resolution, he thinks artifacts are not due cb but other performance tweaks/technics optimisation
 
Dictattor

Dictattor

Member
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assurdum

assurdum

Banned
SlimySnake said:
what the hell are inner triangles?

and are the alpha effects worse than the pro or on par with the pro?

also, he says he would talk about the ps5 performance mode's IQ later but he never did. Did he ever say if both PS5 versions have the same native resolution? Pretty sure John found that it had cb artifacts.
Click to expand...
What seems CBR artifacts as John named are not necessarily relative to CBR... that's why vgtech (which is quite more reliable in such stuff) specified as "it appears to be CBR". It would explain why the performance mode still has the same artifacts. No way ps5 needs to run at the same resolution of the raytracing mode if it wasn't already the higher possible. It would be quite bizzarre.
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Accidentally Bought One X said:
Fully Next Gen games is something else.

Crossgen can't even kiss my beautiful ballsack.
Click to expand...
Yep. Fifa 21 did this at native 4k 30 fps.

6sQlSGE.gif

tnEBnxz.gif


In gameplay, it's native 4k 60 fps with 22 of these guys on screen at once albeit at lower LODs, but also thousands of crowd. Imagine what they can do with 4kcb and 30 fps which should give them at least 4x more rendering power.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I got warned for "Inappropriate behavior" half hour ago, with no link to a post.. anyone here know how to tell WTF you got warned for?

I'd ask somewhere else.. but.. there's no place I can tell to ask questions like that.
 
SSfox

SSfox

Member
Mr Moose said:


The more I see of this game, the more I want to play it... But I know I won't be a fan of the type of game it is :messenger_weary:


YouTube (or the capture software/card) is making that game look horrible in darker areas, especially on camera pans.
Click to expand...

Bruh that fast travel tho.

This is insane, we didn't have those kind of instant loading times since Super Nes, it's crazy, we were all thinking about how next gen is gonna evolve with more GPU, more ram, more CPU, but there is an even more important factor which is SSD, this a game changer, to be honest when i was switching between Street Of Rage 4 and other AAA games with loading times i really felt it that kind of no loading thing.

Mark Cerny used to work with Sega, guess he missed too bad those instant loading time on Genesis times, which make total sens.

It make me want to see a new Dead Space btw
 
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