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[KAL2006]

I'm not liking the new rumours.

I'm invested in the PS4 ecosystem with quite a few digital games. And I'm into Sony exclusives. The power gap is higher than expected. If it was a minor differences it wouldn't bother me.

If the rumours are true I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I have enough family and friends who would buy a PS5 where I can borrow and play exclusives if need be. So surprisingly MS may have won me over if the rumours are true about power difference which I thought never could happen.

 

[Marlenus]

I'm not liking the new rumours.

I'm invested in the PS4 ecosystem with quite a few digital games. And I'm into Sony exclusives. The power gap is higher than expected. If it was a minor differences it wouldn't bother me.

If the rumours are true I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I have enough family and friends who would buy a PS5 where I can borrow and play exclusives if need be. So surprisingly MS may have won me over if the rumours are true about power difference which I thought never could happen.

If PS5 is 9ish Tflops and Xbox sex is 12ish Tflops I would not be surprised if PS5 is $399 and Xbox sex is $499.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

We heard bad reports from people working on Navy 10 at AMD. Those said ot was a nightmare to work on, filled with problems like bugs. Is it a bad choice to go with Navy 10 for Sony? I mean if it turns out to be full of security holes, what's the point in selling a new hardware? Just take a look at what happened to the PSP. In my book, if Sony should copy something from XBOX, it's not TF but security. I know it's over reacting but a hacked PS would be worse than a 6tfp ps5 vs a 20 xbox scenario. It has the potential to kill the brand. Is this why we hear nothing from Sony?

 

[Nickolaidas]

Eh, even if the base PS5 is a 9.2 TF machine, the PS5 Pro is definitely going to hit 12-14 TFs. S'all good.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

$399 is a pipe dream. $499 - $599 more likely for both.

I don't think there will be differences in manufacturing costs, if indeed Sony is as a last ditch effort trying to up graphics clock to 2.0 GHz it'll mean their yields will be poor. MS chip may be bigger and they'll get less chips per wafer, but if they'll keep clocks around 1.8 GHz (for 12.9 TF) they'll have better yields of fully specced working chips.

 

[PocoJoe]

We heard bad reports from people working on Navy 10 at AMD. Those said ot was a nightmare to work on, filled with problems like bugs. Is it a bad choice to go with Navy 10 for Sony? I mean if it turns out to be full of security holes, what's the point in selling a new hardware? Just take a look at what happened to the PSP. In my book, if Sony should copy something from XBOX, it's not TF but security. I know it's over reacting but a hacked PS would be worse than a 6tfp ps5 vs a 20 xbox scenario. It has the potential to kill the brand. Is this why we hear nothing from Sony?

Dude they both basically use the same navi tech.. just bit different configurations probably

 

[Gamernyc78]

Tommy Fisher & OsirisBlack?

I'll believe them before I believe Timdog, Mistermediax or Penello

 

[pawel86ck]

5700XT in many DX12 games is as fast as 1080ti, so if these leaks will end up true PS5 should be fast enough to deliver 1440p at 60fps, or 4K 30fps. IMO 400$ is extremely cheap for a 1080ti level of performance in a console and later on sony can build PS5 pro with 4K 60fps target in mind.

But lets wait for official specs reveal because too many insiders say sony build stronger PS5 for 2020. If insiders are correct both PS5 and Xbox SX should be 12TF+.

 

[cormack12]

Not gonna lie, if MS come in at the same power differential that PS4 and Xbox had at the start of this gen I'm going to be disappointed. If I'm seeing native 4k on the Xbox at all times and only 2160cb on PS5 I'm gonna be a little annoyed - as I do own a 4K TV and what that native res. Then couple that with a near silent console and my head is being turned....price will be the biggest factor

I'm actually looking through Sonys exclusives now to see what would keep me. I think the main thing is the money I've already invested in PS+ and digital games is a big factor.

Uncharted: Wasn't too keen on 4 but loved LL. But no idea what's happening with the franchise going forward.
HZD: Not really my jam, but looked impressive
Infamous: Played 2 and SS. They were OK but nothing I'd choose if the library was rich
GT Sport: I actually loved this and still play from time to time. I know a lot of GT fans didn't but this was the best car game for me - ties with Forza 4 but doing different things
Yakuza: Haven't played them, except for trying 3 which didn't gel with me
God of War: No news on what's happening with this. I preferred the old style but it was enjoyable and I'm in for another round. Recent job listings have hinted heavily that GoW2 will be on the PS5 though.
Bloodborne: No news on if 2 is being worked on/coming out. I'd deffo be niterested in this
Spider-Man: Good, solid title, bit more of the same in terms of overall combat system etc.
Death Stranding: No interest at all

Then I look at possible new games as well:

Godfall: One of those launch titles that you might get to show off the new power, but is not a must buy for me
+Ghost of Tsushima: Looks really pretty but still need to see some more of this before deciding, +Nioh 2 (remastered?) also has weight in this debate though and they are games I'd definitely want to be amongst
All Stars Arena: Not really a fighting game fan, but I did get PSABR which was fun. Not enough to keep me
TLoU II: It's a good game, but I recently played through the original remastered and while it be absolutely superb in terms of animations and art I'm just not sure it's got the same pull factor as the previous title

These are the ones that jump out to me so a lot of the games that will be coming out will be cross platform. Next year will be interesting in terms of game announcements, for people like me if MS launch stronger, quieter and a better price then it's going to be a tough decision. They need to show some games though. That last outing with all the cartoony stuff was not for me. I want to see alternatives to the titles above because stuff like FFVII, Elden Ring, Nioh etc are all cross platform......

 

[Reindeer]

5700XT in many DX12 games is as fast as 1080ti, so if these leaks will end up true PS5 should be fast enough to deliver 1440p at 60fps, or 4K 30fps. IMO 400$ is extremely cheap for a 1080ti level of performance in a console and later on sony can build PS5 pro with 4K 60fps target in mind.

But lets wait for official specs reveal because too many insiders say sony build stronger PS5 for 2020. If insiders are correct both PS5 and Xbox SX should be 12TF+.

Plus with a bit of optimisation and VRS it can surpass 1080TI in performance inside a console. This alone should be enough for next gen, and the Pro should push things to maximum once it arrives. Ideally it would be nice to have 11-12 tflops to start with so we don't feel like we have to upgrade to Pro down the line.

 

[TeamGhobad]

apparently ps2 did Raytracing

 

[pawel86ck]

Plus with a bit of optimisation and VRS it can surpass 1080TI in performance inside a console. This alone should be enough for next gen, and the Pro should push things to maximum once it arrives. Ideally it would be nice to have 11-12 tflops to start with so we don't feel like we have to upgrade to Pro down the line.

I totally forgot about VRS. Additional 50-75% perfromance boost will make a difference for sure.

However if Xbox SX will be indeed much faster than PS5, then I will only buy XSX next year and wait for PS5Pro. Sony will not release many exclusives first year anyway.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Plus with a bit of optimisation and VRS it can surpass 1080TI in performance inside a console. This alone should be enough for next gen, and the Pro should push things to maximum once it arrives. Ideally it would be nice to have 11-12 tflops to start with so we don't feel like we have to upgrade to Pro down the line.

Could this be the plan all along? Sony giving us a 9TF machine to make us think we just HAVE to get the 14TF Pro down the line?

 

[Reindeer]

Could this be the plan all along? Sony giving us a 9TF machine to make us think we just HAVE to get the 14TF Pro down the line?

I don't know, but there will be very little reason to upgrade to Pro consoles if your current one is capable of doing 4K60 already. Sure with time games could become more demanding and base consoles might have to lower resolution somewhat, but that will hardly be a reason to upgrade for most people. The only things I could see Pro consoles offering (if base consoles are 11-12 tflops) is maybe an option for 120fps in some games and much improved ray tracing at 60fops.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

I don't think we get mid gen updates this time unless 8K becomes a thing. Like 4K did this gen.

 

[KingT731]

Interesting thing I've been seeing is a lot of positive word of mouth for VRS but in the same breath talking down checkerboard rendering....are people aware of what VRS actually does?

 

[Mista]

I wish I can engage in all this discussion but I’m a bit clueless in all the technical matter

 

[Reindeer]

Interesting thing I've been seeing is a lot of positive word of mouth for VRS but in the same breath talking down checkerboard rendering....are people aware of what VRS actually does?

VRS basically reduces detail in distance that is unlikely to be picked up by human eye. It can improve by performance by around +-10 FPS going by Digital Foundry's testing.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I don't know, but there will be very little reason to upgrade to Pro consoles if your current one is capable of doing 4K60 already.

Why does everybody keep saying that? The PS5 won't play all games at 4K/60 just like the PS4 Pro couldn't play all games at 1080p/60. As long as character models and textures keep improving and becoming heavier files, and as long as environmental effects and physic engines become more complicated, 4K at 60 fps will never be guaranteed. Developers always push for visually stunning games, usually at the cost of framerate. Even the PSOne could play games at 60fps - IF the developers wished to sacrifice visual fidelity for the sake of performance.

The PS5 won't be any different. Eventually PS5 games *will* appear which will need to downgrade the resolution to 1080p in order to run, and then the PS5 Pro will appear and claim that it can run those games at native 4K.

 

[Reindeer]

Why does everybody keep saying that? The PS5 won't play all games at 4K/60 just like the PS4 Pro couldn't play all games at 1080p/60. As long as character models and textures keep improving and becoming heavier files, and as long as environmental effects and physic engines become more complicated, 4K at 60 fps will never be guaranteed. Developers always push for visually stunning games, usually at the cost of framerate. Even the PSOne could play games at 60fps - IF the developers wished to sacrifice visual fidelity for the sake of performance.

The PS5 won't be any different. Eventually PS5 games *will* appear which will need to downgrade the resolution to 1080p in order to run, and then the PS5 Pro will appear and claim that it can run those games at native 4K.

PS4 couldn't do 1080p60 because the CPU was holding it back. The CPU in new consoles should be adequate enough to provide 60 fps in most games at 4K if the consoles are indeed 11-12 tflops. I do agree though that some games might have to lower their resolution to hit that 60 fps mark, especially down the line as games become more complex. A lot will also depend on developers and what they want to achieve with their games

 

[PocoJoe]

900p vs 1080p were bigger deal than 4k vs almost 4k.

Because first is really visible with most tvs, latter isnt.

Even 1080p vs 4k isnt that big of difference unless using really big +65" tv and/or sitting closer than many probably sit.

It would be sad if ps5 is much slower than xbox, but it doesnt matter because xbox isnt interesting.

It is like buying a car, if there is faster one that doesnt interest you, it doesnt matter anyway

 

[pawel86ck]

Interesting thing I've been seeing is a lot of positive word of mouth for VRS but in the same breath talking down checkerboard rendering....are people aware of what VRS actually does?

76% performance boost thanks to VRS for small picture quality reduction is IMO good compromise. Small details in the distance will look worse but picture quality will still look far superior compared to checkerboard rendering, because objects edges will remain rendered in native resolution.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Boy this thread has turned into regurgitated bs and conjecture

 

[Airbus Jr]

Jesus if its true a 9 teraflops PS5 is terible for a 2020 console

Especially when it compared to X Series X

3 tf behind Xbox is just plain stupid and unnaceptable

Esp since X series X and PS5 will came out in the same timeframe

Any Sony engineer who came up with this stupid idea should be fired

 

[chemical boy]

Jesus if its true a 9 teraflops PS5 is terible for a 2020 console

Especially when it compared to X Series X

3 tf behind Xbox is just plain stupid and unnaceptable

Esp since X series X and PS5 will came out in the same timeframe

Any Sony engineer who came up with this stupid idea should be fired

That's why it's not happening

 

[Gamernyc78]

Jesus if its true a 9 teraflops PS5 is terible for a 2020 console

Especially when it compared to X Series X

3 tf behind Xbox is just plain stupid and unnaceptable

Esp since X series X and PS5 will came out in the same timeframe

Any Sony engineer who came up with this stupid idea should be fired

You really believe this shit given Sony's history?

 

[CyberPanda]

I wish I can engage in all this discussion but I’m a bit clueless in all the technical matter

Wikipedia helped me a lot when I wanted to learn about tech.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I think it is safe to assume that final dev kits are only going to be sent to devs after the consoles full spec reveal, so there might be some surprises yet (probably small, if any).
I assume that only 1st party studios know the real final specs and the rest have target specs.

 

[Venom Snake]

Can i ask you something guys? Where did 12TF for XSX actually come from?

 

[Reindeer]

Can i ask you something guys? Where did 12TF for XSX actually come from?

Article by Windows Central, but there were rumours circulating before that.

 

[stopitgetsomehelp]

Can i ask you something guys? Where did 12TF for XSX actually come from?

Windows Central / Digital Foundry & many more sources: 12 TH
AMD Leaks: 12 TH is achievable for a Arden's CUs number (codename linked to Xbox family by BC modes & insiders)
Phil Spencer: So when we do the math, we're over eight times the GPU power of the Xbox One, and two times what an Xbox One X is (power = TH; X1X: 6 TH x 2 = 12 TH for XSX)

 

[Gamernyc78]

Can i ask you something guys? Where did 12TF for XSX actually come from?

Tales out of someones ass. All guesses based on form factor. No one has said "this is what it definitely is"

 

[TeamGhobad]

Tales out of someones ass. All guesses based on form factor. No one has said "this is what it definitely is"

phil said 2x the X, thats about as official as it gets.

source: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-series-x-specs-twice-as-powerful-as-xbox-one-/1100-6472198/

 

[Gamernyc78]

phil said 2x the X, thats about as official as it gets.

source: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-series-x-specs-twice-as-powerful-as-xbox-one-/1100-6472198/

We know Microsoft is as ambiguous as it gets. Thy say alot of shit tht doesn't pan out or have in the past.

 

[SportsFan581]

I feel as if the pressure is on Xbox to be more powerful even if it is 250 gigaflops more. But even if the rumors are true Sony will be absolutely fine with 9.2 tf.

I don't think it matters much to anyone if the difference is >= 10%

When you listen to what big devs are saying (the ones that would actually have access to both systems), they've repeatedly stated that they don't see any mistakes. That no one has beaten themselves before they got started (which is always a shot at Xbone's memory system). I don't think it matters much to MS if Sony is at 13TF. Different companies have different priorities, since 360 MS has proven to be thermally conservative, it's quite possible that Sony was more aggressive with clocks. There's also that chance that nobody is at 12TF and we are really closer to 10TF all around (with architectural improvements would still be 2x Xbone X).

 

[TeamGhobad]

We know Microsoft is as am iguous as it gets. Thy say alot of shit tht doesn't pan out or have in the past.

 

[Venom Snake]

Thank you for the answers. I see that there is no other way for me than to wait for official data. It's all so confusing that I don't even know which information to stick to and discuss. Unofficial sources, shills, insiders (or outsiders "insiding" to stir up shit even more), pseudo-technical videos trying to match the amount of CU's and clock speeds to fit more or less educated guesses..

Damn, I admire everyone who is actively involved in this thread, hats off to you guys.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I wish I can engage in all this discussion but I’m a bit clueless in all the technical matter

Basically, the higher the numbers, the better.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I wouldn't be surprised if benchmarks of real console chips were done completely offline to prevent leaks.
Basing predictions on leaked benchmarks might not be accurate for either console.
9tf for 399$ seems a bit of a mistake, appealing to the public, but a mistake. It's only 3tfs more than the X1X 3 years later and it will really lag behind later in the gen. Its not a 6 years console, unless they are already planning a Pro to release with the 1st price drop of the base console.

 

[44alltheway]

oof that timdog tweet

 

[Gamernyc78]

No it's one in your mind. Let's be oblivious to all the other rumors from ppl in the industry bcus you know I tht certain box

 

[Bogroll]

I don't think it matters much to anyone if the difference is >= 10%

When you listen to what big devs are saying (the ones that would actually have access to both systems), they've repeatedly stated that they don't see any mistakes. That no one has beaten themselves before they got started (which is always a shot at Xbone's memory system). I don't think it matters much to MS if Sony is at 13TF. Different companies have different priorities, since 360 MS has proven to be thermally conservative, it's quite possible that Sony was more aggressive with clocks. There's also that chance that nobody is at 12TF and we are really closer to 10TF all around (with architectural improvements would still be 2x Xbone X).

I know what your saying but it will matter on here and elsewhere. Its already ringing out that it doesn't matter if Xbox is 12tf and Ps5 you won't be able to tell, no games on Xbox etc as fanboys are just cushioning themself s in case X is more powerful. But you sure as well won't here the last of it if Ps5 is 10.5tf on Xbox is 10tf.

 

[TeamGhobad]

No it's one in your mind. Let's be oblivious to all the other rumors from ppl in the industry bcus you know I ❤❤❤❤❤❤ tht certain box

can mods start banning troll fanboys like this? there has been a real surge of fanboys these past few days and they are really dragging the discussion down.

 

[Gamernyc78]

can mods start banning troll fanboys like this? there has been a real surge of fanboys these past few days and they are really dragging the discussion down.

Troll? Look in the mirror. In your feelings because I don't agree with you lol smh whoaa

Thts sad. Keep posting your murals of salt.

 

[TLZ]

Relax and happy New year everyone. This is the year of nextgen consoles. We're finally there. A new decade. A new journey. All the best.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Relax and happy New year everyone. This is the year of nextgen consoles. We're finally there. A new decade. A new journey. All the best.

Hopefully we'll get some minor official information to start the new year.

 

[BattleScar]

We got a lot of armchair Electrical Engineers and Computer Systems Architects in this thread.

People were certain Microsoft would allow a 50% shader deficit back in 2012/13.....until it happened.
People making ridiculous pronouncements that a 9.2TF console isn't good enough and would be DoA.

We even had Digital Foundry making rather short sighted predictions that the PlayStation 4's early sales figures weren't indicative of sales performance long term.

The easiest way to make yourself look a fool.

And then we have the people who make new predictions with enough variety and at such frequency, that at least one of those predictions is almost certain to be partially correct.

The GitHub repo leak was about the only meaningful thing we had to talk about all year.

At this point just wait and see. Won't be long now.

 

[R600]

Xbox One X vs PS4Pro

48% more TF (6TF vs 4.2TF)
50% more memory (12GB vs 8GB)
50% more BW (326GB/s v 218GB/s)
43% more Tex fill (188GT/s v 131GT/s)
35% less Pixel fill (37.5GP/s v 58GP/s)

Arden vs Oberon

30% more TF (12TF v 9.2TF)
Same memory (16/20GB v 16GB + 4GB)
11% more BW (640GB/s v 576GB/s)
30% more tex fill (375GT/s v 288GT/s)
19% less pix fill (107,5GP/s v 128GP/s)

I would say these two are ~20% difference and HALF that of X vs PS4Pro.

I that close? I think so. If you are Sony, and dont know MS is going with dual SKU + PC tower premium console, you have to think difference would be even less, therefore IMO, Sony's console is very close to theoretical limit you would expect for ~200W 400-500$ console in todays time.

 

[CJY]

funny

 

[Mista]

Basically, the higher the numbers, the better.

This I know ;p