Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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xool said:
Yeah it seems too expensive to keep up the 8x generational RAM increase. But there's mo way you can shift data into DRAM fast enough on a frame for frame basis - even a small fraction (eg 1GB) at 30 fps means you need 30GB/s bandwith .. even Sony's custom solution isn't expected to reach that

I'd be interested to hear what this means for games - as I understand it a 4k texture should be 4x (2x double resolution) the size of a "1080p" one

.. but how does that actually work in practice ..? are current textures actually detailed enough for 4k ? is there a way to cheat on textures ? how much of an average game RAM allocation is texture ? etc etc .....
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Games will always be bandwidth limited because of the closed architecture of the console/PC GPUs. It's difficult to say whether 4k textures are enough. And any cheats for textures to keep storage down would have been utilized a long time ago. The big issue with moving to 4k is that you will need a 1:1 ratio on all of the levels of texture for a particular asset. For example, say you have an asset that requires the following components to render it:

Base color (which could have 2 or more textures blended together -- i.e. scratches, paint, scuffs, etc..)
Ambient color
Specular color
Emissive color
SSS color, etc..

Then you need at the same res (in order to have best quality):
Base normal map (1 or more blended together)
Specular normal map
etc.. etc..

Then all of those textures have to be mip-mapped into other levels of detail (4k, 2k, 1k, 512x512, 256x256, etc.. etc.. down to 1x1)

Do you see the pattern? A HUGE amount of bandwidth is needed throughout the entire graphics pipeline.
 
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xool said:
Yeah it seems too expensive to keep up the 8x generational RAM increase. But there's mo way you can shift data into DRAM fast enough on a frame for frame basis - even a small fraction (eg 1GB) at 30 fps means you need 30GB/s bandwith .. even Sony's custom solution isn't expected to reach that
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First of all I would expect some HW assisted decompression to further inflate the expected fast bandwidth (see one of the examples for such products and their compression ratios: http://www.binomial.info/blog/2016/12/11/overview-of-basis-rdo-mode which gets lossless compression to ~25% of the native GPU compressed texture format size) and then I would see different strategies depending on the data you want to update and its priority (maybe just a specific mip level instead of the entire texture, or just relying on the extra compression see above... and btw, 1 GB of additional unique texture data per frame is a humongous amount [even if we only transferred 250 MB of it] as that would mean 30 to 60 GB of unique texture data per second).
An open world game would likely keep several giant texture atlases, portions of which would be streamed in as characters move around the world (in that sense RAM is already used as a cache and the real storage, and what prevents you from traversing at super fast speeds, is the HDD/SSD).
 
DaGamez said:
Quick question, will anyone here really switch alliances because of a couple TF here or there? Say Sony bests Xbox by 25% even, given that the system design of Xbox seems more sound than last gen, do Xbox gamers really care? Same thing in reverse, I think Sony gamers are staying put regardless. I'm referring of course to the hard-core crowd that is entrenched to one side or the other already.
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I'm fed up of a "wireless" controller that I need to keep plugging in. If xbox is 25%+ faster I'll suck up a shitty D-pad and seriously consider it.

But I'd have to have a long hard think about their (MS) plans mid term. I don't want another "buy kinect or fuck off" point mid-gen
 
xool said:
I'm fed up of a "wireless" controller that I need to keep plugging in. If xbox is 25%+ faster I'll suck up a shitty D-pad and seriously consider it.

But I'd have to have a long hard think about their (MS) plans mid term. I don't want another "buy kinect or fuck off" point mid-gen
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What you are talking about? About charging controller?

Just buy the god damn charger cradle and problem is solved.

Much easier than mess around with AA-batteries anyway.

I guess you throw away your phone every time the battery is empty
 
"I expect PS5 to outsell Xbox Series X in 2020, but for both platforms to sell more consoles at launch than both the PS4 and Xbox One did back in 2013. One new factor for this upcoming generation is the impact of backwards compatibility on brand loyalty and audience transition. I think we'll see less brand switching as a result. I also expect pricing of both PS5 and Xbox Series X to be similar, and I think it's more likely than not they will be higher than the PS4 launch price point of $399."

Piers Harding-Rolls, IHS Markit Technology

www.gamesindustry.biz

Analysts dole out 2020 predictions

Every year, we turn to a panel of expert analysts to ask them what they see coming down the road. And for returning pan…
www.gamesindustry.biz www.gamesindustry.biz
 
xool said:
I'm fed up of a "wireless" controller that I need to keep plugging in. If xbox is 25%+ faster I'll suck up a shitty D-pad and seriously consider it.

But I'd have to have a long hard think about their (MS) plans mid term. I don't want another "buy kinect or fuck off" point mid-gen
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:messenger_tears_of_joy: From what I've read online, I think the new MS controllers use internal batteries also. Looks like they might have lost you before they had you.
 
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If the leaks are true, then PS5 having 36 Compute Units is literally to ensure backwards compatibility with PS4? The same number of compute units as PS4 Pro except its RDNA? Why can Xsex have more compute units but still have backwards compatibility?

I was hoping both Xsex and PS5 would be in 64-128 Compute Unit range but now that dream is gone :(
 
PocoJoe said:
What you are talking about? About charging controller?

Just buy the god damn charger cradle and problem is solved.

Much easier than mess around with AA-batteries anyway.

I guess you throw away your phone every time the battery is empty
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Suppose I can just play the game holding it in the cradle too. Or buy two to play one game.

Right.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
If the leaks are true, then PS5 having 36 Compute Units is literally to ensure backwards compatibility with PS4? The same number of compute units as PS4 Pro except its RDNA? Why can Xsex have more compute units but still have backwards compatibility?

I was hoping both Xsex and PS5 would be in 64-128 Compute Unit range but now that dream is gone :(
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The theory is that Xbox games are more hardware agnostic than PS games so it's easier to run them on different hardware. Whether there is any truth to it I don't know. Could be possible though I guess.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
If the leaks are true, then PS5 having 36 Compute Units is literally to ensure backwards compatibility with PS4? The same number of compute units as PS4 Pro except its RDNA? Why can Xsex have more compute units but still have backwards compatibility?

I was hoping both Xsex and PS5 would be in 64-128 Compute Unit range but now that dream is gone :(
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While avoiding TF-Gate and CU-Gate all together, I'd say that MS games were more abstracted from the hardware to begin with. Especially after Xbone X was released, part of the patching that MS completed on every single game released at that time, was to ensure there wouldn't be excessive resistance to backwards compat in the future. With that said, they obviously still have things to fine tune, hence canceling Xbox and 360 BC programs to focus on Xbone.
 
xool said:
Imagine selling a controller with a 7 hr battery life, and no USB port on the front of the console. And a tiny ass USB plug to connect it with.

Indutive charging would be nice too ..
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Which console doesn't have a USB port in the front of it?
 
crazy buttocks on a train said:
JFnbneh.png


iz this thng on??
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Xbox fanboys nightmare is back. Os 2013 all over again
 
Kazekage1981 said:
If the leaks are true, then PS5 having 36 Compute Units is literally to ensure backwards compatibility with PS4? The same number of compute units as PS4 Pro except its RDNA? Why can Xsex have more compute units but still have backwards compatibility?

I was hoping both Xsex and PS5 would be in 64-128 Compute Unit range but now that dream is gone :(
Click to expand...


The way the Pro already handled it (disabling half the GPU, with a seperate boost mode for higher clocks with no guarantee of compatibility if you turned it on), seemed to point to GNM being lower level and more bespoke to the hardware than the Xbox derivative from DirectX, which seems to have an easier time porting.
 
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DJ12 said:
Don't forget 'we have calculated this is X2 the X gpu' which everyone takes as gospel means 12 tflops when it clearly doesn't as they would've said 2x the tflops. It's a metric ms have used so why ditch it now unless they are trying to be deliberately obtuse.

I guess they are waiting for Sony to release a number so they know if Sony are using special maths to convert RDNA to gcn and they will follow suit accordingly.

They go high now and Sony come out much lower but compete or better with in game performance and questions will be asked about ms ability to make consoles.

Your 3 tflops more and being outperformed is not a good look.
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I agree they're probably concerned Sony might say PS5 is "the eqivalent of a 12.X TF PS4" which would be applying an RDNA offset to what is actually a 9.XTF GPU. On the other hand, X's leaked APU has 56CUs with presumably several disabled to improve yields, and at lower clocks than PS5s supposed APU. MS might be holding out an ace that sees them ultimately disabling fewer CUs and/or boosting clocks taking them above 12TFs.
 
sonomamashine said:
Hi, can anybody put me up to speed ?
What's the latest news / speculation ?
thanks.
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PS5 estimated around 12.8 TF and Nextbox around 12. Same bs back and forth like before but the narrative tht PS5 has better RT keeps poppin up. Everyone is happy cboat is back even making him a groupie thread but he's not saying much except some shit about edge of tomorrow 😂😂😂
 
So, what I don't fully understand is... If Ray tracing is active will it be using a significant amount of the gpu or cpu? Or is it compartmentalised?

In the case of the X and what we k ow of the PS5.
 
Gamernyc78 said:
PS5 estimated around 12.8 TF and Nextbox around 12. Same bs back and forth like before but the narrative tht PS5 has better RT keeps poppin up. Everyone is happy cboat is back even making him a groupie thread but he's not saying much except some shit about edge of tomorrow 😂😂😂
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Hold on, are the most current rumors putting PS5 at 12.8? I thought it was 9 and change, but admittedly these claims are hard for me to keep up with day in / out.
 
Bryank75 said:
So, what I don't fully understand is... If Ray tracing is active will it be using a significant amount of the gpu or cpu? Or is it compartmentalised?

In the case of the X and what we k ow of the PS5.
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I was under the impression tht they use the gpu bcus it's more efficient but in the past cpus have also been used for raytracing.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
If the leaks are true, then PS5 having 36 Compute Units is literally to ensure backwards compatibility with PS4? The same number of compute units as PS4 Pro except its RDNA? Why can Xsex have more compute units but still have backwards compatibility?

I was hoping both Xsex and PS5 would be in 64-128 Compute Unit range but now that dream is gone :(
Click to expand...
PS5 sounds like it's going the route of more hardware emulation whereas MS has gone down the path of more software emulation via some form of Hyper-V, Obviously they are both doing both some combination of the two but the emphasis on the implementation is different which brings different pros and cons
 
NickFire said:
Hold on, are the most current rumors putting PS5 at 12.8? I thought it was 9 and change, but admittedly these claims are hard for me to keep up with day in / out.
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Initial and most ps5 leaks were always in the double digits and edging out nextbox until the github doc which Matt then said ppl are going to feel dumb bcus thts not telling the latest specs basically saying it's higher than 9.
 
It does. It's 31TF.

All the speculation online about the pricing, even as an Xbox user, I still think that both camps stick to their familiar price points, regardless of power edge etc. I could be wrong though.
 
xool said:
Yeah I'll just arrange my life and playtime around a shitty product. And buy some add ons to compensate for the piece of shit that came in the box.
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Bruh sounds like your life is pretty swell if this is the thing you have to rearrange your whole life around 😂
 
Gamernyc78 said:
Initial and most ps5 leaks were always in the double digits and edging out nextbox until the github doc which Matt then said ppl are going to feel dumb bcus thts not telling the latest specs basically saying it's higher than 9.
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Thanks. Not gonna lie - I really don't want 9 v 12 situation. Strictly for personal reasons of internally debating whether i picked the right horse for 1-2 years

DaGamez said:
It does. It's 31TF.

All the speculation online about the pricing, even as an Xbox user, I still think that both camps stick to their familiar price points, regardless of power edge etc. I could be wrong though.
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I think I see what you did there. Captain America gifs for me!
 
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NickFire said:
Thanks. Not gonna lie - I really don't want 9 v 12 situation. Strictly for personal reasons of internally debating whether i picked the right horse for 1-2 years
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Depends on how your horse performs though. You can have a fast ass horse compared to another but if you use him for shows and he can't jump its not good enough lol

Nvm don't mind my analogy lol 😂 😂 😂
 
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