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[Rightisright]

Its been interesting watching the evolution of this topic over the last couple of months.
Not long ago the Sony peeps were set that the PS5 was 14tflops and the only questions were how the HBM chips would be laid out on the APU, and just what difference the ReRam would make to games. Now peeps are scrambling to try and say how the PS5 will have parity with the XSX.
Now this isn't waring, as it makes me remember how last gen I was coming off the great 360 and getting leaks about what MS was planning with the One. I was originally thinking about how MS were gonna smash the 720 out of the park, and then I ended up going off about how MS were killing themselves and screwing over its customers.

 

[Fake]

16GB is low IMO if the OS ends to be memory hungry.

 

[RaySoft]

16GB is low IMO if the OS ends to be memory hungry.

DDR3 for OS memory... cheap

 

[VFXVeteran]

16GB is low IMO if the OS ends to be memory hungry.

It's not low if you consider the custom SSD. I'm thinking that they'll use about 4G for OS task switching and this SSD is probably going to be used to allocate a streaming cache that would go into RAM. I heard of the virtual RAM mechanism will change workflows.. I believe it. It's no need to drive up costs for another 8G when you can get that in "slower" SSD streaming through the virtual RAM system. You got to remember that the GPUs aren't going to be that fast. Flooding the pipeline with assets that need the GPU to work on is going to slowdown the pipeline -- especially if you try to render target framebuffers of 4k.

 

[01011001]

16GB is low IMO if the OS ends to be memory hungry.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would use DDR4 RAM for the OS... maybe 3 or 4GB of additional DDR4

 

[Insane Metal]

It's not low if you consider the custom SSD. I'm thinking that they'll use about 4G for OS task switching and this SSD is probably going to be used to allocate a streaming cache that would go into RAM. I heard of the virtual RAM mechanism will change workflows.. I believe it. It's no need to drive up costs for another 8G when you can get that in "slower" SSD streaming through the virtual RAM system. You got to remember that the GPUs aren't going to be that fast. Flooding the pipeline with assets that need the GPU to work on is going to slowdown the pipeline -- especially if you try to render target framebuffers of 4k.

How effective would that virtual ram be against, say, +8GB of VRAM? Or some addition al 4GB of DDR4 for the OS, for example?

 

[TLZ]

It's not 8G. I was hinted at 16G and I trust my sources. And I think DF info is pretty accurate (imo).

Oh? What else have they told you?

 

[Insane Metal]

Oh? What else have they told you?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't know anything about techno-babble, but I get the new systems are supposed to be so different with much better cpus, SSD and faster ram.

But I don't think there's ever been a new system where the amount of ram didn't keep going up.

So if XBox One X is at 12gb. I'm going to assume the new systems have at least 16gb.

 

[TLZ]

 

[Mista]

The series X will be like a premium rather than base.
Now, if Lockhart will replace either base Xbox or Xbox X will be a mistery.
What the retail price of Xbox One X? Lockhart will be more expensive, no?

Might be. I can see MS selling it with a loss though don’t know why. If I’m not mistaken, X1X retail price is $500 but now I think it’s $450

There are so many different factors on why casual/price conscious consumer doesn't jump in early and it's more than just the entry level price of a console.

First, game library is more important than the price point of a console & launch will always have the least desirable lineup.

Second, casuals who want cheaper consoles like cheaper games as well. One of the best reasons on adopting early is getting a varied game lineup with different prices. A casuals doesn't say to themselves "I'm a cheap bastard when comes to the price of a console, but boy, do I sure like spending full price on every game!" Do soccer moms not like to got to Wal Mart or Gamestop to find cheap games for their kids? (Lockhart may not even come with a disc drive, which limits its potential for casuals even more)

Lastly, what makes you think casuals who waited this gen to buy an Xbox One or PS4 are gonna want to spend money on a console again so soon? If someone bought a console in '17, '18 or '19, we're talking 2-3 years max so far with their current console. What is their rush to buy another one again? All the popular cross gen titles will still be available. Their initial plan of waiting and having a vast library to choose with cheaper game prices worked before. Why change now?

Consumers are creatures of habits and I think in general are being short sighted with the market potential for Lockhart. There has been lower priced SKU's for consoles at launch before (that actually came with a disc drive) and performed poorly in relation to the higher priced SKU.

Fair argument right there. Not going to disagree at all mate

 

[VFXVeteran]

How effective would that virtual ram be against, say, +8GB of VRAM? Or some addition al 4GB of DDR4 for the OS, for example?

Oh RAM will always be the better alternative - always. But I don't see them going with split RAM. I could be wrong but it's not something I would do. I would try to design these consoles to be as PC friendly as possible. That means cutting less corners and dealing with a pipeline that won't require too much fiddling. The virtual system is proposed to be "invisible" to developers so they don't have to worry about it. We'll see..

 

[01011001]

I don't know anything about techno-babble, but I get the new systems are supposed to be so different with much better cpus, SSD and faster ram.

But I don't think there's ever been a new system where the amount of ram didn't keep going up.

So if XBox One X is at 12gb. I'm going to assume the new systems have at least 16gb.

that's true, but you have to keep in mind that the current systems were expected to have 4GB of RAM at most.
Consoles were pretty low end when it came to the amount of RAM they had.

the Xbox 360 had 512MB of ram for example, that was EXTREMELY low. even mid range PCs back then had at least 1GB, hell my pretty low en PC back then had 512MB.

and the PS3 also had 512MB but split up in two and harder to effectively use.

so this generation had a gigantic jump in the amount of RAM, 512MB all the way to 8GB.

which means we shouldn't expect a huge jump this time from either side. and with the new SSD focus the amount of RAM won't be as important anymore.
of course an SSD can't fully compensate for the lack of RAM but it can really help with less important stuff like Mipmap textures and other smaller stuff.

Microsoft even already officially said that the SSD will have a dedicated amount of space reserved to be used as Virtual RAM

 

[VFXVeteran]

Oh? What else have they told you?

I gave all of what I was told but it's not good enough for fans I guess.

I have no specifics on specs. I was just told performance range compared to PC GPUs. And well, the RAM wasn't hard to have a "guess" verified. Nothing else.

 

[Mista]

I gave all of what I was told but it's not good enough for fans I guess.

I have no specifics on specs. I was just told performance range compared to PC GPUs. And well, the RAM wasn't hard to have a "guess" verified. Nothing else.

From developers or someone at Sony-MS?

 

[Insane Metal]

From developers or someone at Sony-MS?

Yes please, give us the names and their positions!

/s

 

[Mista]

Yes please, give us the names and their positions!

/s

Calling Ken Kutaragi right now

 

[VFXVeteran]

From developers or someone at Sony-MS?

Devs. I think someone mentioned this before but only the managers and high-end employees know about the specs on the next-gen consoles. That part is definitely true, so even most devs don't know the specs. They may have an "idea" from rumors at a given company, but they probably don't know the specs (most of them I mean) -- or at the very least was told that specs aren't final form factors.

 

[ethomaz]

What do you think of this thread claiming 8gb and 12gb?

Techpowerup has listed the specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X

It seems the smoke did lead to a fire and the contrast is quite stark. I can't see them posting this not only if it wasn't true, but also with this much detail it seems the leaks led to the actual hardware. Xbox Series X https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482...

www.neogaf.com

A thread based in placeholders?

 

[darthvaderer]

Ps4 games 8k@30fps

No, not likely.

 

[Disco_]

Are we sure that the CPUs are going to be clocked this high? Or are we getting single-thread boost clock speeds, with lower base clocks.

That's pretty low for a zen cpu.
Did you see the supposed benchmarks for the 4800u? It's a mobile apu with likely vega cores and a zen 3 matching the same clocks as the flute benchmark from earlier this year. 1.8/3.6 boost, vega gpu, 15-25w TDP.

What do you think of this thread claiming 8gb and 12gb?

Techpowerup has listed the specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X

It seems the smoke did lead to a fire and the contrast is quite stark. I can't see them posting this not only if it wasn't true, but also with this much detail it seems the leaks led to the actual hardware. Xbox Series X https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482...

www.neogaf.com

Placeholder specs copied from 5700xt, xbox one x, github. Look at the "graphics processor", "memory", and "graphics features" for both ps5 and 5700xt. Copy pasta.

AMD Playstation 5 GPU Specs

AMD Oberon, 2233 MHz, 2304 Cores, 144 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Specs

AMD Navi 10, 1905 MHz, 2560 Cores, 160 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Same goes for "memory" for x one x and series x. They just switched gddr5 to gddr6. Unless of course you believe series x has just 12Gb ram.

 

[Insane Metal]

I believe the CPUs on both consoles will be based off of Ryzen 4000U mobile parts. Or some kind of adaptation of those. I believe 1.6 base and 3.2 boost.

 

[Reindeer]

I believe the CPUs on both consoles will be based off of Ryzen 4000U mobile parts. Or some kind of adaptation of those. I believe 1.6 base and 3.2 boost.

3.6 GHz for Series X according to Windows Central.

 

[SportsFan581]

I believe the CPUs on both consoles will be based off of Ryzen 4000U mobile parts. Or some kind of adaptation of those.

Agreed, that's what I was getting at with the lower base clocks. I've seen some users posting that there's basically going to be a 3700x in there, which isn't realistic.

 

[Insane Metal]

3.6 GHz for Series X according to Windows Central.

Oh I forgot to say I was talking about the PS5 in this case. But yes I believe the XSX will get a higher clock.

 

[Insane Metal]

Just to have an idea of how good that mobile CPU is:




The desktop R5 3600X got 135 for one core. This one is 138. Think about this.

 

[Reindeer]

Oh I forgot to say I was talking about the PS5 in this case. But yes I believe the XSX will get a higher clock.

Yeah, it wouldn't make much sense to limit it to 3.2 when you have a PC mini tower design. Series X could also get much higher base clock due to its design.

 

[Reindeer]

Techradar on 4800U:

"We’re looking at is an 8-core Renoir APU (7nm, Zen 2) with a base clock of 1.8GHz, hitting boost speeds averaging at 3.65GHz across the benchmark."

 

[Insane Metal]

To further elaborate: on Userbenchmark.com the 3600X got a score of 831. This 4800U got a score of 840. So yeah. That's a pretty decent CPU and designed for laptops. On consoles they can make tweaks like improved L3 cache which is ridiculously small (only 4MB per CCX vs. 16MB for the desktop part).

The picture is getting clearer. We'll have a much better idean in two days. 🖥

 

[Reindeer]

To further elaborate: on Userbenchmark.com the 3600X got a score of 831. This 4800U got a score of 840. So yeah. That's a pretty decent CPU and designed for laptops. On consoles they can make tweaks like improved L3 cache which is ridiculously small (only 4MB per CCX vs. 16MB for the desktop part).

The picture is getting clearer. We'll have a much better idean in two days. 🖥

That's crazy powerful CPU for a console. Let's just hope the GPUs will be equally as impressive so we won't hit another bottleneck next gen.

 

[Disco_]

Just to have an idea of how good that mobile CPU is:




The desktop R5 3600X got 135 for one core. This one is 138. Think about this.

The CPU in the flute benchmark was comparable to a 1700x. Less cache, lower speed, etc. compared to current 3xxx series chips.

 

[SportsFan581]

It's unbelievable how far AMD has come in the last 7 years. Part of what makes this new gen exciting.

 

[Insane Metal]

The CPU in the flute benchmark was comparable to a 1700x. Less cache, lower speed, etc. compared to current 3xxx series chips.

Yes, since the 4000 series wasn't even ready yet. They'll be announced soon and will be released in a few months. So yeah. That wasn't final hardware. Obviously.

 

[Fake]

Any sight of the last devkit release?

 

[Reindeer]

It's unbelievable how far AMD has come in the last 7 years. Part of what makes this new gen exciting.

They went from $2 a share in 2016 to currently trading at $48.

 

[Fake]

They went from $2 a share in 2016 to currently trading at $48.

Su and Ryzen really did a great job.

 

[Reindeer]

Su and Ryzen really did a great job.

Now they just have to give Nvidia a kick up the backside.

 

[xPikYx]

Nah. I don't see that. 16G is pretty much a given.

honestly every gen has seen 8x the amount and better RAM, I;,m not saying this is the case, but only the double this time looks pretty silly to me for lasting 7 years

 

[Insane Metal]

honestly every gen has seen 8x the amount and better RAM, I;,m not saying this is the case, but only the double this time looks pretty silly to me for lasting 7 years

RAM need and management has changed A LOT in recent years. If you put, say, 32GB of RAM on these console it would be an absolute waste of money.

 

[xPikYx]

No, not likely.

so where that gt sport was running on?

 

[xPikYx]

RAM need and management has changed A LOT in recent years. If you put, say, 32GB of RAM on these console it would be an absolute waste of money.

like back in the day 8gb were a waste on PS4 right?

 

[Lort]

that's true, but you have to keep in mind that the current systems were expected to have 4GB of RAM at most.
Consoles were pretty low end when it came to the amount of RAM they had.

the Xbox 360 had 512MB of ram for example, that was EXTREMELY low. even mid range PCs back then had at least 1GB, hell my pretty low en PC back then had 512MB.

and the PS3 also had 512MB but split up in two and harder to effectively use.

so this generation had a gigantic jump in the amount of RAM, 512MB all the way to 8GB.

which means we shouldn't expect a huge jump this time from either side. and with the new SSD focus the amount of RAM won't be as important anymore.
of course an SSD can't fully compensate for the lack of RAM but it can really help with less important stuff like Mipmap textures and other smaller stuff.

Microsoft even already officially said that the SSD will have a dedicated amount of space reserved to be used as Virtual RAM

The xbox one was always designed to have 8 gigs of RAM that’s why it has the eSRAM so they could buy more cheaper memory.

 

[Insane Metal]

like back in the day 8gb were a waste on PS4 right?

Absolutely not.

 

[xPikYx]

Absolutely not.

I honestly remember many people were stating that. it always looks like but never is

 

[Fake]

Now they just have to give Nvidia a kick up the backside.

Will not be a easy task after that AMD Radeon engineer get hired for Intel.

 

[VFXVeteran]

That's crazy powerful CPU for a console. Let's just hope the GPUs will be equally as impressive so we won't hit another bottleneck next gen.

There will always be a bottleneck. Even PCs have bottlenecks. The GPU will be the bottleneck with the consoles just like the PC. Rendering has taken over most of the work of getting a frame to the screen. I wouldn't be too excited about the CPU because now the work will shift to the GPU. If next-gen consoles shoot for 4k, you'll be bottlenecked again and see lower graphics settings, lower FPS or cb rendering upscaled to 4k. I expect RT games to run @ 1080p.

 

[captainraincoat]

There will always be a bottleneck. Even PCs have bottlenecks. The GPU will be the bottleneck with the consoles just like the PC. Rendering has taken over most of the work of getting a frame to the screen. I wouldn't be too excited about the CPU because now the work will shift to the GPU. If next-gen consoles shoot for 4k, you'll be bottlenecked again and see lower graphics settings, lower FPS or cb rendering upscaled to 4k. I expect RT games to run @ 1080p.

i think we are at a good point graphics wise now......i would much rather more enemies...faster loading and much better AI than pixel counting
Ray tracing should be parked to be honest.....HDR is more impressive

 

[Musky_Cheese]

There will always be a bottleneck. Even PCs have bottlenecks. The GPU will be the bottleneck with the consoles just like the PC. Rendering has taken over most of the work of getting a frame to the screen. I wouldn't be too excited about the CPU because now the work will shift to the GPU. If next-gen consoles shoot for 4k, you'll be bottlenecked again and see lower graphics settings, lower FPS or cb rendering upscaled to 4k. I expect RT games to run @ 1080p.

Will RT be a giant waste of time for on these consoles? Wouldn’t players prefer higher res and hdr?

 

[Reindeer]

i think we are at a good point graphics wise now......i would much rather more enemies...faster loading and much better AI than pixel counting
Ray tracing should be parked to be honest.....HDR is more impressive

We are still light years away from photorealism, the graphics today haven't even reached image quality of PIxar movies in the 90s. There's still a long way to go when it comes to graphics. Things like image quality, skin rendering, animations, materials, cloth and hair simulation and so on still have some ways to go.

 

[SportsFan581]

Never underestimate the power of a good buzzword.

It can be a beautiful effect, they better have an option to 86 it for performance.