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[LordOfChaos]

Besides a lot of low level tech was included in the libraries later on. So even the learning curve was not that steep.

Which cost devs in the first 3-4 years. Back to my point about being put out there with little consideration for dev time and budgets.

Had Sony prebuilt the libraries and toolchains and been ready for its release, maybe...But it's just so many maybes and should-haves. Western devs in particular were kind of just handed this weird alien baby and told to make off with it, I think it's easy to forget how different Sony was to dev support in 2005 too.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Which cost devs in the first 3-4 years. Back to my point about being put out there with little consideration for dev time and budgets.

Had Sony prebuilt the libraries and toolchains and been ready for its release, maybe...But it's just so many maybes and should-haves. Western devs in particular were kind of just handed this weird alien baby and told to make off with it, I think it's easy to forget how different Sony was to dev support in 2005 too.

I think it is not simple lack of respect, but a belief in pushing things forward to deliver the performance people were screaming for in a console and a bit of bad luck with Toshiba’s RS not panning out and nVIDIA’s RSX being a bit behind the times, not matched well with CELL, and with some HW bugs and performance bottlenecks which forced people to rely on mastering CELL too early on... I do not think it was their plan.

 

[Imtjnotu]

these last two pages.....

 

[LordOfChaos]

I think it is not simple lack of respect, but a belief in pushing things forward to deliver the performance people were screaming for in a console and a bit of bad luck with Toshiba’s RS not planning out and nVIDIA’s RSX being a bit behind the times, not matched well with CELL, and with some HW bugs and performance bottlenecks which forced people to rely on mastering CELL too early on... I do not think it was their plan.

I can accept that, the perfect world with their ideal plan would be interesting to see. But as it happened, the explosion in complexity and lacking toolsets in the early years made it really only worth it to a handful of games by a handful of studios given Sonys blessing with the massive budgets to take advantage of it.

Ultimately, what it did well is largely co-opted by GPUs now, so CPUs can focus on what they're good at, heavy branching and prediction*, so the interesting chapter in weird hardware is closed.


*

Spoiler

sometimes too good, cough meltdown cough spectre cough MDS

 

[psorcerer]

Which cost devs in the first 3-4 years. Back to my point about being put out there with little consideration for dev time and budgets.

Loser ideology. Pretty sad that it's so common in the West right now.

 

[psorcerer]

But as it happened, the explosion in complexity

This "explosion" taught developers to scale well into multi-core reality, without Cell (and X360 for lesser extent, its memory access was horrible) we would have lived in the single thread game engines reality for another 5 years or so.
BTW, if you look at non-gaming software its performance and architecture usually still there in the 2000s with single-threaded processes and no parallelism.
Heck even Tensorflow is pretty atrocious in mutli-core scaling.

 

[LordOfChaos]

This "explosion" taught developers to scale well into multi-core reality, without Cell (and X360 for lesser extent, its memory access was horrible) we would have lived in the single thread game engines reality for another 5 years or so.

Yeah I find that really hard to believe. We hit a hard clock speed wall around the same time and multicore was the way forward to increasing aggregate performance. Pentium D but more so Core Duo and forward were revelatory for performance. Engines were primarily single threaded for another few years after the consoles launched, on the PC side, so saying so is saying developers and engines would have looked at everything about up to Haswell or Skylake and been like nah, leaving those gains on the table. Just the state of competition to visually impress us makes me really doubt that.

Honestly ST can still be king for a lot of games peak framerates which is why Intel still (before July 7th at least) leads in pure gaming performance value aside, to say the situation would be 5 years worse without Cell...Hard doubt.

And you already mentioned its main competitor also derived its aggregate performance from multicore.

 

[Lort]

In your little bubble called the green verse lol along mister media.

We got to call you out on your blatant bullshit especially since Digital Foundry and lens of truth were always giving the graphics nod and graphical benchmarks to ps3 exclusives. That's when Microsoft were going hard with live action trailers instead of gameplay. In each respective genre Sony was spanking them....

FPS-Consensus by professionals and gamers, it wasn't even close Killzone 2/3 destroyed Halo visually.

TPS-Unchaeted 2/3 people couldn't believe what thy saw the pinnacle of graphics last Gen. Gears couldn't compete

TLOU-We won't even go there

Heavy Rain hmmmm

God of War there wasn't even any competition in tht genre

MLB the Show again no competition in exclusives

You get the point but if you dont there are dozens of articles on ps3 exclusives setting the bar when all Xbox gamers could do was wonder how they pulled it off. If you don't believe me lol go back look at articles about Killzone and Uncharted.

Stop the blatant trolling and bs. Even towards the end multiplats were already running on par to 360 versions.

I'll drop this again just in case you want to keep lying and talking nonsense. This isn't subjective it was facts all last Gen

How Sony Is Leading The Charge With The Best Looking Console Exclusives – Part 1

gamingbolt.com

Digital foundry said the best graphics of the generation was tomb raider for xbox 360. But whatever dont let reality burst your bubble.

 

[Negotiator]

Actually it's 8th gen with the Jaguar CPU that really pushed the CPU multi-threading paradigm shift, 7th gen pushed the SIMD paradigm (Cell SPUs and VMX128 to a lesser extent), which is now being served by the GPU paradigm shift much better.

According to ND, their engine in TLOU was single threaded (because they only had 1 PPU core) and they had to make huge changes (fiber system) to port it to the Jaguar CPU (6+ cores).

They never really addressed what happened to the custom SPU code, but I think it's safe to assume that it was rewritten to GPU compute shaders.

 

[psorcerer]

Honestly ST can still be king for a lot of games peak framerates

That's correct, because people still write a lot of game code* without any performance optimizations.
And although in theory it should not need much CPU performance anyway it becomes very complex and hard to optimize pretty fast, and then they tweak it till the deadline, where nothing can save them from the poor performance.

*game code: code that runs the game logic itself, not related to graphics, audio or any other subsystem, pure gameplay mechanics and interactions

 

[Lort]

For anyone interested this article talks about the issues with the Cell architecture and how it was convertered to normal CPU code and GPU async compute.

http://www.redgamingtech.com/killzo...w-fall-technology-ps3-vs-ps4-analysis-part-1/

In short noone is bringing back the Cell... if Sony use a technique similar to MS .. recompilation from binary rather than real time emulation .. they can prob make a fairly decent PS3 emulator.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Digital foundry said the best graphics of the generation was tomb raider for xbox 360. But whatever dont let reality burst your bubble.

Right right we heard tht from you before lol get out of here with tht nonsense. Mister media is that you???? You always come with some fanboy bs.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Right right we heard tht from you before lol get out of here with tht nonsense. Muster media is that you???? You always come with some fanboy bs.

...and this is where you guys go when you don't have anything worthwhile to rebute with.

 

[stetiger]

That table has some wrong info, no?

Bobcat
SP IPC: 4flops
DP IPC: 2flops

K10/Jaguar
SP IPC: 8flops
DP IPC: 4flops

Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller/Excavator/Zen/Zen+
SP IPC: 16flops
DP IPC 8flops

Zen 2
SP IPC: 32flops
DP IPC: 16flops

Core/Penryn/Nehalem
SP IPC: 8flops
DP IPC: 4flops

Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge
SP IPC: 16flops
DP IPC: 8flops

Haswell/Broadwell/Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffe Lake/Whiskey Lake/Amber Lake
SP IPC: 32flops
DP IPC: 16flops

Lol no, those are not flops, they are instruction precision measurements. To measure flops take the instruction measurement 8 * 1.6Ghz (clock speed) * 8 (core count) = 102.4GFlops maximum theoretical throughput

 

[Gamernyc78]

...and this is where you guys go when you don't have anything worthwhile to rebute with.

I already made a list and gave you an article. Don't talk nonsense just because you have nothing to back up your bs. The consensus always was has been last Gen and this gen that ps exclusives set the bar in graphics. Hasn't changed much this gen at all if anything its more blatant. Horizon, God of War, MLB the Show, Killzone are still those pinnacles in graphics shit Infamous from the beginning of the gen looks better than most Xbox exclusives including Crackdown 3. Don't blame me bro blame Microsoft. What are you Gona mention Horizon from Playground? That's about the only game graphically that's worth mentioning in the same breadth as the multiple ps4 exclusives.

None of you can change history, if you want to be revisionists that's on you but alot of us are old enough to have experienced that generation as adults. Nothing came close to Killzone 2/3 for fps on consoles (shit thy were comparing it to crisis on PC tht should tell you something lol), God of War and again Uncharted 2/3/tlou all multi award winners for graphics amongst other things.

Do I have to post more articles???? From the past???

Digital Foundry vs. Uncharted 3

"We felt really good about that game as it came together. We felt that we had something really special on our hands but…

www.eurogamer.net

And I quote...

"Uncharted 2 was the game that changed everything, redefining the third-person genre, setting new standards in technology, production values, characterisation and gameplay. Its legend is so powerful that any faults it may have had are perhaps forgotten in a haze of happy nostalgia. Its deserved success at the time was unparalleled, and for us it remains one of the principal reasons for owning a PlayStation 3 - the ultimate first-party console exclusive. The pressure on Naughty Dog to follow up on that must have been tremendous"

I'm done on this subject I'll let you guys pm each other and think of a strategy to change the history of last generation but I won't be partaking in it anymore lol just like to put you zealots and fanboys in place when I read some of the ridiculousness.

 

[stetiger]

You make it sound like some kind of enigma, a super-wonder chip. Yet it could barely manage 720p30 in a lot of games. If the current Xbox One X can elevate Xbox 360 games to 4K then I can't see why the next-gen PS5 couldn't do the same with PowerPC code from PS3.

What is it with people in this thread with power fixation. It seems like you are fixated on thinking that people are saying that it was a revolutionary chip. Nobody is saying that or has even said that. The whole point is to point out that to properly emulate its behavior you require certain criterias, that's it. Not about how bad or great it was more like what it was and continue to be whether you like it or not. Personally I think it was a mess, but the vision of what it was meant to be can still be understood and analyzed. It also explains why BC is kinda hard.

 

[Bogroll]

I think 360 /PS3 best game graphics are fairly even, but one thing that's always stood out to me is the best graphics on PS3 are always slow paced games and not that much going on most times and I've never thought that TLOU or Uncharted games couldn't be done on 360. And as most people know or say is that Microsoft didn't really put much effort into exclusives the last 2-3 years of the 360 life, but i'm sure they could have pushed more out of it like Sony did with the PS3. All imho.

 

[stetiger]

I could see a CELL redesign without the limitations of the previous one, with an easy to use and efficient API to distribute tasks per SPUs, for scientific calculations farms that have no need for gpus. (so, not gonna happen!)

the Cell is dead but ironically APUs kinda have the same idea, except cheaper, simpler, and thus easier.

 

[ethomaz]

Lol no, those are not flops, they are instruction precision measurements. To measure flops take the instruction measurement 8 * 1.6Ghz (clock speed) * 8 (core count) = 102.4GFlops maximum theoretical throughput

No.

They are flops per circle per core... every time you mensure single-precision ou double-precision calc you use flops.

You posted not accurate data for Ryzen/Ryzen 2... both do 16flops (SP) and 8 flops (DP) per cycle per core.

 

[stetiger]

No.

They are flops per circle per core... my data of correct.

Got it took it as you saying that those were the total flops to expect from the system as a whole. But yes you are correct

 

[shark sandwich]

LOL we should thank Sony and the Cell CPU for teaching game developers to develop for multi core processors.

Dumbest thing I’ve read all week. Bet you jizzed yourself reading that Nicholas Blackford article back in the day too.

 

[CrustyBritches]

This was the PS3's real secret sauce...

Spoiler: Top Secret PS3 Tech

 

[ethomaz]

Two different sources from ERA.

 

[shark sandwich]

FWIW here’s my eulogy for Cell: we should thank Sony/Toshiba/IBM for exploring an exciting, promising, yet ultimately fruitless evolutionary dead end.

The best and worst part about the following generation’s hardware is how damn boring it is. Midrange PC gaming hardware. And it’s doubtful that any future console will try something as ambitious as creating their own CPU architecture intended as the ultimate gaming CPU yet also for use in cell phones, HDTVs, etc.

 

[Insane Metal]

Two different sources from ERA.

Spider Man?

So... no PS5?

Edit: but... that was Friday?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Two different sources from ERA.

If this is about Jeapoardy why is it being mentioned here lol

 

[bhunachicken]

I've heard rumours that the PS3 might launch for $599. Is it me or is that too much?

 

[Gamernyc78]

I've heard rumours that the PS3 might launch for $599. Is it me or is that too much?

600 is OK if the hardware warrants it but only fools would think that after the ps3 situation Sony would launch at 600. Mass market does not want 600 consoles. It will be 500 tops.

 

[CJY]

Two different sources from ERA.

Any clues about what this is about?

 

[FranXico]

If this is about Jeapoardy why is it being mentioned here lol

What is going on with that, and why is there a legal problem?

 

[Gamernyc78]

What is going on with that, and why is there a legal problem?

I heard Sony owns Jeapoardy or something like that and since the guy tht is on it has been unbeatable for weeks and is about to break a record its a big thing if the episode leaks ahead of time. This guy has boosted ratings dramatically.

 

[Negotiator]

FWIW here’s my eulogy for Cell: we should thank Sony/Toshiba/IBM for exploring an exciting, promising, yet ultimately fruitless evolutionary dead end.

The best and worst part about the following generation’s hardware is how damn boring it is. Midrange PC gaming hardware. And it’s doubtful that any future console will try something as ambitious as creating their own CPU architecture intended as the ultimate gaming CPU yet also for use in cell phones, HDTVs, etc.

Let's be honest here: the only reason people (usually from the glorious PC brigade) don't like semi-custom, mid-range, PC-based hardware is because comparisons with PCs are easy for the average (and usually clueless) internet person and this "devalues" console hardware in their minds. It's a state of mind, first and foremost.

While on the other hand, exotic and bespoke hardware blurs the lines and thus it makes comparisons a lot harder, but not entirely impossible. Was Cell (or Emotion Engine, if you will) a traditional CPU? Or a proto-GPGPU?



Hell, I still remember people saying back in 2005 that Cell was the first "true" 8-core "CPU". Mind you, I'm talking about people with academic background working in universities and they were literally clueless! Now imagine the average dudebro gamer trying to figure out what the fuck Cell was.

Exotic hardware induces a scarcity mentality, an elusiveness that PC-based hardware doesn't have (or even ARM-based SoCs, thanks to the mobile bonanza). Just keep in mind that PC hardware has borrowed lots of technologies from other (now defunct) companies.

 

[Geki-D]

why is it being mentioned here lol

Sony are tapping into the PS5 funds to pay off his winnings.

But seriously, no idea. SIE are pretty much separate from the rest of Sony so whatever's going on with that shouldn't affect the games division. Though I guess seeing as both sources are from ERA people assumed it was in regards to gaming because, after all, ERA is meant to be a video game forum firstly.

 

[demigod]

Two different sources from ERA.

Any clues about what this is about?

When stirring the pot goes wrong, era.

 

[bitbydeath]

Any clues about what this is about?

Tomorrow (June 3) was rumoured to be PS5 announcement day.

 

[Negotiator]

Tomorrow (June 3) was rumoured to be PS5 announcement day.

We would have had a teaser video by now, so...

I think Sony will announce their PS5 unveil event right after the MS E3 2019 presentation and it makes sense if you think about it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

We would have had a teaser video by now, so...

I think Sony will announce their PS5 unveil event right after the MS E3 2019 presentation and it makes sense if you think about it.

Possibly, but well see how truthful Sony is.

When Sony announced they won't be attending E3, they also claimed they wouldn't be PRing gaming stuff on their own during the E3 spectacle.

 

[IceManCat]

Any clues about what this is about?

Sony is getting sued by the Australian commission agency or something along those lines. I believe it related to false advertising but you'd have to check that.

 

[bitbydeath]

Possibly, but well see how truthful Sony is.

When Sony announced they won't be attending E3, they also claimed they wouldn't be PRing gaming stuff on their own during the E3 spectacle.

I think they did the same thing with PS4 as well stating it wouldn’t be announced anytime soon... but we do have this mysterious meeting coming up...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think they did the same thing with PS4 as well stating it wouldn’t be announced anytime soon... but we do have this mysterious meeting coming up...

Can't wait for PS5 and Anaconda announcements.

By now, I think most people are expecting a fall 2020 date. It would be amazing if these systems were announced launching earlier.

 

[Geki-D]

Possibly, but well see how truthful Sony is.

Truthful? About what? They haven't announced any dates yet to be truthful about...

 

[Fake]

Two different sources from ERA.

About?

 

[bitbydeath]

We would have had a teaser video by now, so...

I think Sony will announce their PS5 unveil event right after the MS E3 2019 presentation and it makes sense if you think about it.

He did also post this...



Maybe just hoping that rumour pans out and is trying to catch it early?

 

[Insane Metal]

WHAT IS GOING ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Who's bgamer90? Never heard of him. He an insider?

 

[Fake]

Sony gonna sue pastebin. About time.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Sony gonna sue pastebin. About time.

Checks out

What's going to happen on June 3 with Sony - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

pastebin.com

 

[Geki-D]

He did also post this...



Maybe just hoping that rumour pans out and is trying to catch it early?

I reckon, seems a lot of these leakers merely base themselves off of other rumours.

And just like with cold reading, "The sitter will usually forget the misses and remember only the hits ".

 

[ethomaz]

I heard Sony owns Jeapoardy or something like that and since the guy tht is on it has been unbeatable for weeks and is about to break a record its a big thing if the episode leaks ahead of time. This guy has boosted ratings dramatically.

I never even hear that name... Jeapoardy lol

It could be the name of a console

 

[Mattyp]

Superdae was hilarious. He was posting on gaf from an apple store after he returned home only to to see cops taking away his computer gear. Lol

Thank god I'm not the only old bloke around here, the leaks, the arguments about real time trailers, 360 vs PS3 banter was so much funnier.

I think 360 /PS3 best game graphics are fairly even, but one thing that's always stood out to me is the best graphics on PS3 are always slow paced games and not that much going on most times and I've never thought that TLOU or Uncharted games couldn't be done on 360.

This is the thing a lot of people don't look at, Halo & Gears target 60FPS, Uncharted & TLoU target 30FPS. The reason being 2 are multiplayer games 2 are not (please don't start this argument here either) There's a reason one game is a lot more detailed then the next, Uncharted is mostly static set pieces with extremely high detailed textures and non moving parts. My bet is any modern FPS at 60fps pushes the current hardware to the limit more then either of these games, would like to see an uncapped option to see what they're capable of doing.