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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Fake

Fake

Member
DemonCleaner said:
the first point i did still catch.
on the second: is both really official now?
Click to expand...
The first: Some leakers have being talking about 'PS5 will use a custom NAVI with GCN arc', but in AMD press the AMD Ceo Lisa confirmed NAVI will have a new architeture called RDNA.

The second: Yes. Is official. The initial desktop NAVI gpus will not have native RT hardware. Maybe next year. PS5 will get native RT hardware, so make a little sense the release date especulation.
 
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Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
~Fake said:
The first: Some leakers have being talking about 'PS5 will use a custom NAVI with GCN arc', but in AMD press the AMD Ceo Lisa confirmed NAVI will have a new architeture called RDNA.

The second: Yes. Is official. The initial desktop NAVI gpus will not have native RT hardware. Maybe next year. PS5 will get native RT hardware, so make a little sense the release date especulation.
Click to expand...
No where was it ever said PS5 would be using a Navi card with GCN. That started after the pcb pictures leaked showing off Navi and everyone assumed it was still using GCN.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
~Fake said:
The first: Some leakers have being talking about 'PS5 will use a custom NAVI with GCN arc', but in AMD press the AMD Ceo Lisa confirmed NAVI will have a new architeture called RDNA.

The second: Yes. Is official. The initial desktop NAVI gpus will not have native RT hardware. Maybe next year. PS5 will get native RT hardware, so make a little sense the release date especulation.
Click to expand...
It was confirmed PS5 is using a customized Navi but it was never said it is based on GCN.
Navi is RDNA.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
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FranXico

FranXico

Member
ethomaz said:
Somebody on ERA found that Sony's patent about Ray-tracing.

Filing Date: 08/29/2003
Published: 06/05/2019

METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR RENDERING THREEDIMENSIONAL OBJECTS - SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT INC

An image processing apparatus for performing rendering processing of three-dimensional objects is provided. An object storage unit stores the three-dimensional data of the object and the array data of
www.freepatentsonline.com www.freepatentsonline.com

Coincidence?
Click to expand...
That's not about Ray-Tracing?
 
Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
ethomaz said:
Somebody on ERA found that Sony's patent about Ray-tracing.

Filing Date: 08/29/2003
Published: 06/05/2019

METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR RENDERING THREEDIMENSIONAL OBJECTS - SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT INC

An image processing apparatus for performing rendering processing of three-dimensional objects is provided. An object storage unit stores the three-dimensional data of the object and the array data of
www.freepatentsonline.com www.freepatentsonline.com

Coincidence?
Click to expand...
Sony has about 8 patents regarding raytracing, I only read in detail 3 of them and they seem to be regarding CG creation for movies in farms.
 
nowhat

nowhat

Gold Member
ethomaz said:
Published: 06/05/2019

The patent was just updated by Sony today ;)
Click to expand...
Uhh....

Patent applications are generally published 18 months after the earliest priority date of the application. Prior to that publication the application is confidential to the patent office. After publication, depending upon local rules, certain parts of the application file may remain confidential, but it is common for all communications between an Applicant (or his agent) and the patent office to be publicly available.

The publication of a patent application marks the date at which it is publicly available and therefore at which it forms full prior art for other patent applications worldwide.
Click to expand...

That's not like the last revision date.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
wutnau said:
Probably?
Click to expand...

Sony has been testing RT for decades now. They first showed off applications for it I believe on the PS2, did much more of it on the PS3 with Polyphony Digital leading the charge with demos for GT, and as well as last year at GDC (and this year too I believe), PD had a panel showing the evolution of their work on the newest GT again.

This is something they have wanted to implement for quite a long time, and comes from their tech background in graphics, as well as their work in motional picture animation.

The computational prowess has just not been there yet, and finally next gen we will see the beginnings of it in the console arena.
 
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ANIMAL1975

ANIMAL1975

Member
I think Sony is by now outright just trying to confuse us, deviate our attention, we are probably getting too close to the real secret sauce...
I'm not sure what we are on here, and don't want to get peoples hopes too high, but have a pretty good idea...

7nm Cell2 second CPU?
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
wutnau said:
No, it was published today.
Click to expand...
So it was updated today...

To publish a patent you need to update it.

Somebody updated the patent today... coincidence? Why not a decade ago or when it was filled? No.. it was today... near PS5 that suppose will use ray-tracing.

I love coincidences.
 
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Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
ANIMAL1975 said:
I think Sony is by now outright just trying to confuse us, deviate our attention, we are probably getting too close to the real secret sauce...
I'm not sure what we are on here, and don't want to get peoples hopes too high, but have a pretty good idea...

7nm Cell2 second CPU?
Click to expand...
Replacing the secondary processor with a cell woudnt make the console energy efficient to pass standby mode certification.
 
Journey

Journey

Banned
bitbydeath said:
Lol, that was never a thing.
Click to expand...


Xbox 720 (mocking it for not being powerful enough) was definitely a thing. The focus during that time was all about power since initially the games weren't the big deal, Knack, Killzone, Driveclub, The Order, etc., were more about the technical marvel then excellent reviews. People knew they were getting a better machine for their buck and that's important during the launch window. Xbox 360 having the better multiplats and being a better value over the PS3 is how MS gained so much ground on Sony, ground that Sega was never able to pick up with the Dreamcast launching earlier, Sony made sure to constantly remind gamers to wait for a machine that promised 10x the power, so they waited despite some beautiful games like Soul Calibur that ran like a Dream (No pun intended).

MS learned a lot with Xbox One, they will have the most powerful hardware next gen, serve me up the crow if I'm wrong.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
Journey said:
Xbox 720 (mocking it for not being powerful enough) was definitely a thing.
Click to expand...
And a whole generation of mockery over the PS3 power disadvantage had nothing to do with that? You didn't think people would want to give Xbox fanatics a taste of their own medicine, given the circumstances?

Irrespective of power, people who bought a PS4 did so because they were confident on the quality and variety of the games, coming from the PS3, power never was the main reason.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
FranXico said:
Come on, that's speculation. Says so in the title :p.
Click to expand...
That is why I linked the comments... he claim the devkit has option on BIOS for... that is not speculation.

Of course it could be fake.

TeamGhobad said:
any real benefits of having more than 8 cores? multiplat games will not take advantage of them?
Click to expand...
If I'm not wrong they what he is trying to say is that the Zen MS is using has option to 2 SMP or 3 SMP per core...

8 real cores (SMT off)
8 real cores + 8 virtual cores (SMP 2x)
8 real cores + 16 virtual cores (SMP 3x)

That is what Zen3 is suppose to have... so the BIOS has option to enable 8, 16 or 24 cores (the last two options being SMP).
 
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FranXico

FranXico

Member
TeamGhobad said:
any real benefits of having more than 8 cores? multiplat games will not take advantage of them?
Click to expand...
Modern APIs are designed to run certain tasks as much in parallel as possible, so some things will scale to run faster with more cores, with minimal effort from developers. Even multiplatform games would take advantage of more cores, yes.

The moment that required the most effort, where inertia had to be overcome, was going from single to multicore. From here on, (good) multithreaded code scales according to the CPU.
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
FranXico said:
Modern APIs are designed to run certain tasks as much in parallel as possible, so some things will scale to run faster with more cores, with minimal effort from developers. Even multiplatform games would take advantage of more cores, yes.

The moment that required the most effort, where inertia had to be overcome, was going from single to multicore. From here on, (good) multithreaded code scales according to the CPU.
Click to expand...

so nexbox could have 12 cores just to fuck with the PS5, how much more real estate would 4 extra cores take up?
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
FranXico said:
Modern APIs are designed to run certain tasks as much in parallel as possible, so some things will scale to run faster with more cores, with minimal effort from developers. Even multiplatform games would take advantage of more cores, yes.

The moment that required the most effort, where inertia had to be overcome, was going from single to multicore. From here on, (good) multithreaded code scales according to the CPU.
Click to expand...
Games run faster with more real cores? Yes.
Games run faster with more virtual cores? No.

These virtual cores are useless to games because games already use the real cores to the point that they can't use the virtual ones.

But these virtual can be used to something else... the dude speculate it can be used to ray-tracing.
 
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P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
The beauty of this is that it is up to the game developer to turn this feature on or off and if on the HW can ensure that the CPU cores, which are way way wider than the Jaguar ones, are properly fed even if non dependent instructions need to come from other threads... there is lot that can be done :).
 
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joe_zazen

joe_zazen

Member
PaNaMa said:
We're 4 days from Microsoft e3 show, and there's been nothing on new Xbox hardware beyond vague speculation from months gone by -Props to MS for keeping it under wraps, but I wish they'd drop a couple of tidbits to escalate their hype levels going in . I'm not feeling the christmas eve excitement I normally get in the days leading up to e3.

MS is in centre stage position to steal the show and make a big impression since their competition has bailed. Is *complete* silence the best way to build hype? Maybe. What do I know? In my admittedly jaded experience, utter silence is a reasonable strategy when consumer speculation/expectation exceeds the reality of the actual product about to be revealed. In which case, maybe MS doesn't want to pour water on what little hype there is by hinting what's coming isn't as good as people are hoping. (as you can tell I'm a guess I'm a glass half empty sort of guy).
Click to expand...

The focus on streaming (every single game on next xbox is also on xcloud) and the need to have old pc hardware be able to run xbox exclusives and the fact that they will release a cheapo console kinda kills the next gen xbox hype for me personally. There will be nothing exclusive to the anaconda, so does having new hardware really matter? It is like nvidia releasing the next rtx series, cool and all but not hype inducing.

Still, they are the only company with a console that bothers to put on a show for their fans, so i hope it is a fun show for those who watch. Sony and Nintendo marketing are boring as fuck.
 
Snake29

Snake29

Banned
It's funny that after the PS5 sneak peek a few people suddenly showed up, concluding that the next-gen Xbox would be "much more powerful". Now the last few weeks it seems that the Xbox camp aren't so sure anymore,Throwing around unrealistic specs to fool themselves.
 
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JLMC469

JLMC469

Banned
Snake29 said:
It's funny that after the PS5 sneak peek a few people suddenly showed up, concluding that the next-gen Xbox would be "much more powerful". Now the last few weeks it seems that the Xbox camp aren't so sure anymore Throwing around unrealistic specs to fool themselves.
Click to expand...

Specs? Where?

We don’t know the specs of this consoles...
 
SonGoku

SonGoku

Member
BagofFeralCats said:
Eh? That's not how that works. The game's performance is dependent on a combination of CPU and GPU, and on PC the lean is much heavier into the GPU.
Click to expand...
Eh? how about you read the discussion thread being had before jumping in and making assumptions. The post where it originated from specifically mentioned games where the cpu is maxed out
PC comparisons based on current gen games are flawed and don't apply because games are designed around Jaguar cores as base spec.

Finally console devs squeeze every bit of hw resources, that's the benefit of targetting fixed hw and designing your game around that spec. By mid gen devs won't be leaving many if any idle CPU resources.
 
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