Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Please. You desperately tried to use an outdated beta screenshot from GTS because you couldn't concede that Forza has the worst trees.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
Please. You desperately tried to use an outdated beta screenshot from GTS because you couldn't concede that Forza has the worst trees.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
somes interiors taken in forza vista mode + photomode
Still don't seem to have a leather shader nailed
Curious Puppy
Banned
Do any of you realize the purpose of these games is to drive and not park the car and stare at trees? What exactly is the point of comparing the fidelity of trees in these games? GIF comparisons of the lighting and weather, or how the cars look is more relevant to what these games actually are.
TBiddy
Member
The purpose of these games is to give warriors ammunition to fight for their console of choice, apparantly. Whether that means "But the trees look better" or "60 fps. At all times" depends on which side you're on, I guess.
Both GTS and FM7 looks fantastic. Anyone claiming otherwise shouldn't post in this thread, to be honest.
Sebmugi
Member
now that I take the time to look good.. the interior of the forza vista models seems not so bad at first glance, but we focus on the various elements of the mobiler and their joints, it will be said that all were assembled in Korea in the 90s. The parts are really adjusted to way coarse :/ but all is not so bad 
you're in a graphics comparison thread complaining about a comparison of a graphical feature...good job guy! *thumbs up*
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Not to mention nailing how the environment looks (which on race tracks is often trees) is vital in making the game look more realistic which is the end goal of this genre.
What do you mean? Do you have any screenshots to show what you mean?
now that I take the time to look good.. the interior of the forza vista models seems not so bad at first glance, but we focus on the various elements of the mobiler and their joints, it will be said that all were assembled in Korea in the 90s. The parts are really adjusted to way coarse :/ but all is not so bad
What do you mean? Do you have any screenshots to show what you mean?
AbandonedTrolley
Member
now that I take the time to look good.. the interior of the forza vista models seems not so bad at first glance, but we focus on the various elements of the mobiler and their joints, it will be said that all were assembled in Korea in the 90s. The parts are really adjusted to way coarse :/ but all is not so bad
Yep I'm not even sure what's going on on the left hand side of the Porsche image, is that a bad angle or is the door clipping the vent?
somes interiors taken in forza vista mode + photomode
there's a surprising amount of faceting going on considering these are the autovista models. but aside from that and some weird materials, they look pretty good.
Don't think either look particularly fantastic nor that the PC2 photomode shots looks "realistic". Between F7 and GTS, one looks better, both in stills and in motion, than the other however, DC looks better in motion than either (notwithstanding poor IQ) from what I've seen thus far.
Last time I was impressed by the graphics of a racer was perhaps GT3 A-spec but times have changed and so have expectations. Mind you anything that is in your periphery may affect your driving experience in these games. So yes trees may affect that. Maple Valley track comparison is a perfect example.
I might ruffle a few jimmies but in comparing these 3 developers it essentially appears as though (graphically):
- PD have the designers to make the best looking racing game but are being held back by the hardware
- T10 are held back by the expertise and the hardware
- and SMS are simply held back by the expertise
TBiddy
Member
I don't agree with you on that, to be honest. T10 have proven time and again, that they are experts in making great looking racing games, that are running at locked 60 FPS. From what I know, they are the only one capable of that.
It's clear that the compromises shown in this thread are due to the required compatibility with the XB1. If FM7 was an XB1X exclusive, it would look very different, I think.
PD are masters of lighting, but have yet to produce a game at 1080p60.. or just 60 FPS locked, really. If you don't care about locked FPS, it's easier to create a great looking game. If you downgrade to 30 FPS, it becomes even easier.
Never really make GIFs and this was my first one which wasn't a complete failure, be easy on me
eso76
Member
Very good, all considered. Shame materials and lighting don't appear to be as realistic ingame as they do in forzavista and tessellation would really help.
BTW does GTS use dynamic tessellation like GT6 did ?
Yeah, looking at those they still look like they're artist impressions/CG concept renders than actual cars. GT still has dem shaders/lighting won in that regard. Particularly with the interiors.
for body work, i'm not even sure it's needed these days. if it is used i expect it to be exclusively used on body work though, i can't imagine it would be used on interiors
this for instance has some visible faceting too (seam line around the central steering wheel section), but they just manage to hide it a lot better than those forza shots above. they seem to model in a very efficient way tbh.
TBiddy
Member
Yes. We're establishing that FM7, overall, looks much worse than both FM4, FM5 and FM6, along with GT5 and GT6.
That's the best example I've seen. Thank you. The problem is the weather system seems to be triggered pre-race or when the lights go green and the time of day, or more precisely the movement of the sun, is not shown. Effectively, although you haven't moved, those systems were already actively processing a pre-defined sequence.
Is there a video that shows real-time changes to the time of day without weather? Much like this Gran Turismo 5 video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfYXtH0kx-s - which shows the physical movement of the sun and it's shadows that are casted across the scene. Something Forza Horizon 3 could provide, for instance.
I don't own it. My fascination stems from Turn 10's reluctance to incorporate these systems in the past. I remember reading an Dan Greenawalt interview years ago, post Gran Turismo 5, and he said it's too much engineering effort to include dynamics. I know this is a step in the right direction but it still doesn't seem to be fully dynamic like Gran Turismo 5. I'm just trying to find out what exactly is going on but on evidence seen so far it doesn't look like it's a real-time simulation for full dynamics.
My posts have nothing to do with art direction and I've responded to that video above. It still doesn't answer anything.
This shot, by far, is the most impressive. The atmospheric effects look the most natural here i.e. I feel the light from the advertising boards is being perfectly affected.
Wow, that really is very good.
Sebmugi
Member
this is a reaction I had, posting screens of forza vista .. but it is still very clean most of the time .. the Korean cars of the 90's were better assembled than I thought ; )
for tesselation in the interior I do not know too .. it seems to me yes but to confirm or not
I wanted to buy an MX5 in forza, I would do a similar screens ^^
SolidSnakex
Member
Some cockpit shots from GTS
TBiddy
Member
Some cockpit shots from GTS
That looks really, really impressive.
ethomaz
Banned
The weather changes are possible triggered by race progress and not player movement... your video shows you standing on the same place but others players/AI already in the lap 2 and progressing the race.
There is no ToD changes too... and weather changes looks to be predefined.
Can you make more tests?
Start a race where you are alone and stay there for 10 minutes to see if weather changes are triggered... after that race to end to see when the weather is triggered.
From what Im reading from others tests the trigger (when the weather changes) is random but predefined when the race starts without real time simulation.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Oh, come on people. GTS definitely looks better but Forza 7 can't possibly look worse than Forza 4 LOL. Why do people always try to exaggerate like this?
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Yeah they look great, I guess one advantage of not outsourcing the models but with that comes the price of not as many cars. Assuming the car list isn't too restrictive I'll be happy with the decision they've taken, because the quality is off the scale.
cyen
Member
Its not bad, until you look at this.
That done it, Forza 7 is a bad looker, hell, every game looks bad now...
Just kidding, since i cant see if people are being serious or just trolling
TheAdmiester
Member
Apples and oranges, completely different conditions.Its not bad, until you look at this.
Yeah his screenshots have been great. Outside of the trolling, there have been plenty of great screens in this thread.
Pretty sure one of the reasons this thread exists is so the trolls and warriors can pointlessly bicker in this thread instead of shitting up every other racing game thread. Of course that's not entirely working based on the other Forza 7 vs GTS thread, but at least the OT threads benefit some.
Maybe I'm weird but these two games are a good example of why I have trouble labeling any game as overall better. I agree that GTS has better lighting and shaders overall but the LOD draw in and shadows are distracting at times. Maybe they've improved in the final game but they bring the overall presentation down a notch for me.
We have two games with different priorities and features. They are bound to excel in different areas. Whichever someone thinks looks better is a matter of preference for some and console fanboy pride for others. I honestly can't say which I think looks better overall, especially without playing both final games for myself, but I can definitely appreciate where these games get it right.
It's still up in the air whether GT Sport will even have conditions like the FM7 pic.
cyen
Member
Agree, at least that are some with some sense in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0WK0EqmAcs
I don't understand what technical difference you thing this implies? Do you think something ceases to be dynamic because it's triggered differently?
In either situation the time of day will simply be determined by a value, This value could be mapped so that noon is at 50% race completion, or that noon is at 2mins of game clock... it's a non-factor. Do you think the AI cars not being there would somehow break FM7's engine?
FlutterPuffs
Member
GT Sports shader use is bloody incredible.
ethomaz
Banned
Like I said it was not what I expected after they announced it... I expected fully dynamic weather and ToD like others games but it ended a better way to baked weather conditions.
When me and others talk about dynamic weather and ToD we are talking about real time simulation to choose these variations during the race making every race unique and allowing a simulated experience of something called endurance races.
I do believe even today GT5 was the most complete racing game ever created (and way better than GT6) because it has everything... we can argue it was not polished like most wanted but the experience was not delivered by any modern racing sim on consoles yet.
velociraptor
Junior Member
This is the worst and best thread at the same time. I find it hilarious, and don't ever wish to see it locked.
Honestly it's just nice to see pretty pictures of cars - whetever the game is. When it comes down to it, they look mostly the same anyway.
Which would be entirely fair... but that's not what the word dynamic means. There are tons of shortcuts games make to achieve things, and some make more than others. But when something like time of day or weather in a game is changing dynamically, then that game factually has dynamic time of day and/or weather. You were previously claiming that it's the same as selecting a time of day in GTS which then remains static throughout the race. There's a very clear distinction. Even if GTS entirely calculates and simulates its time of day without any prebaked information, if it doesn't change then the time of day not dynamic.
What my last post is trying to address however, is what difference does the chosen trigger make to this conversation? Simulating the passage of time via the ingame clock or the race progress (let's say the completion percentage of whoever is in 1st place) is literally just a case of choosing which variable to map the updates to... if your point was in regards to how much of flexible the time of day implementation is, this wouldn't be a criteria worth considering either way. Even if it were mapped to time passage, rewinding the game would logically reverse that time passage... it's all just values.
I share the same sentiment tbf. I'm a big Gran Turismo fan since GT3, the series made me a huge racing games fan in general and I think I spend more than a thousand hours with GT5, more than any other game I've ever played. I remember dropping GT6 pretty quickly and I'm not too hyped about GTS. I'll pick it up for sure as I still feel some sort of affection to the franchise, but I don't follow the news and couldn't care less about getting in the betas so far. I'll try the free demo on the 9th to check out how's online, though.
Journey
Banned
UpUpDownDown
Member
The leather on the Forza shot looks like was in the sun too long
The stiching really jumps out to me.
One extreme to another. GTS looks like a cockpit of plastic and FM7 looks like an elderly's skin.
Need similar conditions there for a better comparison, no natural light coming in the FM7 shot.
Daffy Duck
Member
You buy a racing game to race?
That's your mistake mate, I treat my racers as car park simulators, why join the rush of the pack and follow everyone else round the track when I can stare at 2D trees for hours?
psn
Member
Well this is a thread where we compare graphics.
Even in-game the leather looks a bit off
Dunno if it's the same Mazda as in the quoted shots.
Taliban Stan
Member
Non-replay mode footage or bust. We gotta get over judging racing games off of how awesome they look when you put the controller down and don't play them and completely gloss over what they look like when you're actually in a race.
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