Cyborg
Member
Yeah I killed the boar but still I find myself running way to much for no purpose
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Soulblighter31
Banned
This type of comment is what i was refering to when mentioning nier fans. Just demented opinions and flat out dismissing faults that have been faults in every game since games existed. Somehow it doesnt apply to weaboo game because reasons. Thank fuck and baby jesus that developers dont make games like this very otfen. Its like begging for games that waste your time and have the largest amount of fetch quests possible. Because after 50 hours and after you played the game 3 times therers some philosophical line of text somewhere, that makes it all worth it. Its literal insanity the type of fans these 2 games have created
GHG
Gold Member
You have the option to simply not play "games like this" instead of crying about this game not playing like some shitty design by committee AAA western game. It's not like you don't have plenty of those games to sleepwalk your way through.
How about that?
Yeah I killed the boar but still I find myself running way to much for no purpose
Boar drift is life.
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Soulblighter31
Banned
yes, thankfully i have the option to not play poorly designed games in every aspect. But the arogance in your post, that this is some elevated experience that plebs dont get, my god.
People bitch every time an open world game comes out how its just wastes your time, how its so repetitive, how you have to walk so long to the objective. How Witcher 3 has bad combat and so on. Nier has EVERYTHING at once. But in this game, holly fuck, it doesnt matter. ANYTHING. We're glossing over every aspect. Seems you just have to be a jap game and all is forgiven
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killatopak
Gold Member
Your fixation of this being bad because it is a Japanese games shows your true intent.
GHG
Gold Member
I'm going to tell you something that might seem like a novel idea... Don't visit OT threads of a game (or franchise) that you've decided you don't like.
If you can't at least figure that out then yes you are a pleb.
cireza
Member
Honestly the boar is so fast it could compete in F-Zero.Yeah I killed the boar but still I find myself running way to much for no purpose
Also, awesome OST (great to listen while working, when possible) :
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Cyborg
Member
Its better then walking for sure. I never played the original so didnt know what to expect, Automata is in my top 10 best games ever.
I will come back when I finish all the endings
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Get back to spit shining my shoes plebian
I don't pay you to complain about games above your feeble mind
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
The game is repetitive, and so is Automata. Automata was the first game this director's ever released that was successful, so he purposefully designed his games around a limited budget. It is a limitation, but he handles those limitations in both games in increasingly interesting ways.
The levels are small and repetitive enough that you fairly quickly become intimately familiar with the layout and develop emotional attachment, and almost nostalgia for the spaces you're in. When something's wrong and you're running up those stairs to go ask Popola something, I always have that strange sensation like I'm a kid running up the stairs at my parents house, and I know exactly how those stairs turn and twist because I've run up them over and over. The northern plains are like your front yard, and the last line of defense for the village, and you become used to every aspect of it. Then later in the game, when things start to deteriorate more and more, you feel it. The levels take on the function of a stage in a play almost, more than just another throwaway game environment that you run past to your next objective. Plays aren't criticized for being boring and repetitive, because you have limited landscape space. Instead you use the same stage to orchestrate new story beats. The stage influence is even more obvious when you enter buildings and the interior scenes are displayed exactly like a stage.
The combat is not bad in any way. It's honestly fantastic combat on Hard mode. I should apparently upload some videos, because just fighting hordes of small shades, I'm constantly flanked and they only try to attack from behind where my block doesn't work, or attack when I start attacking. The enemy AI feels more aggressive than several action games I've played. You have to really aggressively use parries and sidesteps and then finish downed enemies, all while using a ton of magic that has more weight and player control feel than any magic aside from Dragon's Dogma. Dark Hand feels fantastic, and almost every spell has at least 2 subtle ways to use it with various charges or dashing.
The quests are indeed repetitive fetch quests and the game is grindy. But this was one of the few games I was able to overlook that on because the whole world around you is old and dying, and you're seemingly all that's left with some strength and drive to fight back. The villagers all seem nice, but are so weak they worry about even hunting sheep. I honestly found it fun to take the weight of the whole village on my shoulders and try and get their tasks done.
When this game came out 11 years ago, the story was a huge subversion of the games we were used to playing at the time. The story is incredibly deep and goes places you would not expect. Just small side quests have endings that are darker and more surprising than you would expect, with extremely high quality music and voice acting to accompany it. It doesn't hurt that this game has one of the most original and creative endings in video game history, and does something I haven't heard of. But that creativity starts much earlier, with the combination of grindy JRPGs with action combat, Zelda style puzzles for one part, Resident Evil influence on one part, text adventure and visual novel influence on one part, shmup and rail shooters influenced throughout in 2D and 3D, and more.
What people saw in the game was someone who was a complete underdog that had almost no budget, but was still fearless and took chances constantly to push games into new and surprising territory. The characters are some of my favorites in gaming.
But you're right, I guess we're all just racists who only like it because it's Japanese. Good one!
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Jeeves
Member
I can't remember, did the original have voiced dialogue for every npc? It feels new but maybe that's just me.
Even though I've played this so many times over the years, I still find myself getting turned around in the Lost Shrine. Living up to its name, I suppose.
So far, gameplay-wise it doesn't feel any different from the original to me besides the option of deflecting. Thanks to that I am using the guard button more than I used to.
Enjoying the changes to the music more than I thought I was going to.
Really feels different playing as Yonah's brother instead of her father. I think the "guy who will do anything for his daughter" is a little more natural than "guy who will do anything for his sister", but I'm interested to see how differently the character interactions will come across as this character.
Even though I've played this so many times over the years, I still find myself getting turned around in the Lost Shrine. Living up to its name, I suppose.
So far, gameplay-wise it doesn't feel any different from the original to me besides the option of deflecting. Thanks to that I am using the guard button more than I used to.
Enjoying the changes to the music more than I thought I was going to.
Really feels different playing as Yonah's brother instead of her father. I think the "guy who will do anything for his daughter" is a little more natural than "guy who will do anything for his sister", but I'm interested to see how differently the character interactions will come across as this character.
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
cireza
Member
Love the game too, and it did have its share of game-design flaws (it can get pretty tedious/repetitive as well). NieR Replicant does seem a bit worse though, but clearly, Yoko Taro did not have the same budget. I think it is pretty admirable what he managed to do in that regard.
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GHG
Gold Member
Call me weird but I think Replicant starts better than Automata. It's more of a slow build up rather than starting with a bang but I like that because it's more of a journey of discovery. People in the village don't know wtf is going on and are just trying to survive and so are you along with trying to figure out what's wrong with Yonah.
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Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Maybe in retrospect that's a good thing, but on a first playthrough it's not. The game is dull so far and the story beats infrequent and somewhat abrupt. A friend of mine whose favorite game is Automata keeps asking me how it is and I'd like to be able to say something more specific than it's slow so far but I hear it picks up.
So when approximately does it get good?
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It's not super long. Keep playing and see if you like it. Sounds like you may not. But if you like Automata, you'll probably appreciate some of the story coming up that sets up things in Automata, so hopefully you wont feel like you wasted your time. You might have already encountered things that are in Automata and not realized it just yet. There are lots of small references, and a few big ones.
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cireza
Member
It clicked for me once the second half starts and things get in motion. I then better understood the intention behind the world building as a whole, and I probably am in a much better mood to do more of the repetitive things that were proposed to me before. Simply because I am starting to really enjoy the world as a whole.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
Pretty bizarre reaction. Especially considering the poster you are replying to evidently bought the game at full price and sunk over 10 hours into it to give it a chance.
Face it, the game is flawed. It won't be for everyone. The game design is pretty crap when it comes to quests and even temples. Thankfully the game does seem to have major saving graces.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its funny to me, the whole "repetitive" argument.
I mean, the reality is that all games are repetitive because its impractical to introduce new gameplay elements every 5 minutes for X number of hours. It seems to me that its less about repetition being the problem than how well the repetition is covered up with fresh assets and other novelties.
Yoko is aware of this, its why the Nier games constantly hop genres. What he can't do though is cater for every sidequest to have tons of bespoke material because it'd be a huge strain on a budget already tightly stretched.
I've said this many times before but people really need to get it into their heads that there's no substitute for time and manpower, things that cost money and are always finite.
Content is triaged according to how critical it is to the core experience, "golden path" elements get priority because that stuff is essential to the plot and is the thing that every player is likely to see. Optional stuff, anything outside of the golden path has to play second fiddle not just because its inessential to the core experience, but from the pragmatic realization that being optional not every player will bother with it.
Yoko's goal is to surprise the player. He wants to make you think you understand what his game is, before knocking down a wall and revealing a different aspect that not only makes you see things in a new light, but to reflect upon how things you've already done in a different way. This is the entire point of his multiple route design ethos.
The issue of course is that conventional wisdom as I just described depreciates EVERYTHING beyond the golden path to the end of route A. He'd have a hell of a job convincing a western publisher to greenlight so much optional content even at a secondary value tier in terms of budgeting. The argument would be to cut it, maybe repackage as DLC, so as the resources it requires could be shifted to a frontloaded position in the game, because that's the bit that everyone -especially reviewers- is certain to see.
Yoko Taro is a smart man, he understands what he's trying to do flies in the face of this established logic, and given his modest resources how difficult he's making things for himself and his teams. But he's on a mission, and so what he tends to weight are elements that are high-value creatively, but low cost production wise. Music, text, dialog are relatively cheap to create in volume, but they punch above their weight experientially.
I mean, the reality is that all games are repetitive because its impractical to introduce new gameplay elements every 5 minutes for X number of hours. It seems to me that its less about repetition being the problem than how well the repetition is covered up with fresh assets and other novelties.
Yoko is aware of this, its why the Nier games constantly hop genres. What he can't do though is cater for every sidequest to have tons of bespoke material because it'd be a huge strain on a budget already tightly stretched.
I've said this many times before but people really need to get it into their heads that there's no substitute for time and manpower, things that cost money and are always finite.
Content is triaged according to how critical it is to the core experience, "golden path" elements get priority because that stuff is essential to the plot and is the thing that every player is likely to see. Optional stuff, anything outside of the golden path has to play second fiddle not just because its inessential to the core experience, but from the pragmatic realization that being optional not every player will bother with it.
Yoko's goal is to surprise the player. He wants to make you think you understand what his game is, before knocking down a wall and revealing a different aspect that not only makes you see things in a new light, but to reflect upon how things you've already done in a different way. This is the entire point of his multiple route design ethos.
The issue of course is that conventional wisdom as I just described depreciates EVERYTHING beyond the golden path to the end of route A. He'd have a hell of a job convincing a western publisher to greenlight so much optional content even at a secondary value tier in terms of budgeting. The argument would be to cut it, maybe repackage as DLC, so as the resources it requires could be shifted to a frontloaded position in the game, because that's the bit that everyone -especially reviewers- is certain to see.
Yoko Taro is a smart man, he understands what he's trying to do flies in the face of this established logic, and given his modest resources how difficult he's making things for himself and his teams. But he's on a mission, and so what he tends to weight are elements that are high-value creatively, but low cost production wise. Music, text, dialog are relatively cheap to create in volume, but they punch above their weight experientially.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Just keep in mind the second half is a point of no return if you have side quests that need to be completed.
If you don't care about 100% completion then don't worry though. It's a pretty demanding platinum trophy, from the era the game came out. Requires lots of grinding, and farming, and boss rushes. FYI: The DLC is by far the best place to farm rare materials.
Jeeves
Member
This game is pretty much the definition of a diamond in the rough. I feel like a lot of those who get hung up on the game's faults to the point of disliking it are people who have a hard time with looking at something as more than the sum of its parts.
It's been a long time since I went further than ending B, can you remind me if any of the missable weapons can only be found in the first half? I don't think that's the case, but it would be nice to be sure of it.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I'm going to have to look up a trophy guide myself. I forgot.
I did get the platinum back in the day, and it's a lot more work than I've done on games recently lol. The farming and fishing alone is a trial.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
Lots of excuses for the game in here. I don't know who is calling it repetitive, but no, that's not the problem.
Except maybe in terms of environment. I could see someone finding the trivial in having to wander through the library loading screen 100 times so the game can piece out a small bit of story. That does actually feel unnecessarily repetitive.
But the fact is, if people are calling it repeterivr, there is a problem. People don't call Halo repetitive, because it's gameplay systems are fun and dynamic, yet you pretty much do the same thing over and over. (And for the dense ones: no I'm not saying Nier should be halo.)
If people call Nier repetetive, then their critique might be off, but the game still isn't serving them what they "need."
It's like how a baby cries when they're upset. Crying isn't the technically correct response to wanting milk, but it still communicates that something is wrong.
Except maybe in terms of environment. I could see someone finding the trivial in having to wander through the library loading screen 100 times so the game can piece out a small bit of story. That does actually feel unnecessarily repetitive.
But the fact is, if people are calling it repeterivr, there is a problem. People don't call Halo repetitive, because it's gameplay systems are fun and dynamic, yet you pretty much do the same thing over and over. (And for the dense ones: no I'm not saying Nier should be halo.)
If people call Nier repetetive, then their critique might be off, but the game still isn't serving them what they "need."
It's like how a baby cries when they're upset. Crying isn't the technically correct response to wanting milk, but it still communicates that something is wrong.
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Jeeves
Member
Ah okay. Thought I'd ask since you seem to have a good memory of the game. To be clear though, I don't care about achievements. It's just that you must collect every weapon to access endings C and D. Pretty sure I did that on my first save file without worrying about gathering weapons in the first half, though.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Yeah, I'm going to have to look up a guide just to make sure. I think I'm getting fairly close to the jump.
Jeeves
Member
I don't think anyone anywhere is calling the game perfect. But we still like it for what it is and want to celebrate what we love about it.
a multicultural team of v
Member
I don't know if it is the version of the song they are using or just how it is implemented in the game, but Hills of Radiant Wind just is not anywhere near as good as it was in the original. I have no idea why remasters are so allergic to just using the same damn OST as the original game, but I am sort of getting sick of it - especially when you don't even have the option to select the original.
Other than that I am very happy to be playing Nier again.
Other than that I am very happy to be playing Nier again.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
The OST from the first game seemed to reallyyyyyyy go hard on the drums in the recording mix on nearly every track. So naturally, I loved that (I'm an ex-drummer).
The new one seems to be trying to add in more variants where the song builds slower in multiple parts. I'm wondering if the full on heavy drums versions are being saved for later on in the game, but I don't know yet.
At the moment, I prefer the OST from the original release. I do think though that this one has a little more subtle variation and is a little less repetitive. Some of the tracks in the first game you'd hear just hundreds of times without many changes.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
No one is calling the game perfect, but enough people are acting overly defensive of critiques. One player buys it opening week, dedicates ten hours into it, then gets torn apart for making a critique. It's gross.
My point isn't that people shouldn't call this game perfect (again, no one did). My point is that fans of this game need to take a chill pill and accept that it does have flaws. No one is taking the game away from you.
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Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Just to clarify - is the second half the beginning of route B? Or are you referring to the second half of route A?
a multicultural team of v
Member
You know what, I think that is exactly it - the slowness and the drums. I'm listening to the original version and there is basically zero downtime, zero break in the vocals (unlike the new version where there are gaps). And the drum part really makes sense because you hear this song a LOT during the game as an instrumental. And I think that is where the difference in drums is probably making me feel like the new version is off compared to the old one.
cireza
Member
This is the first time I play the game and haven't finished anything yet, so I am guessing route A.
Gediminas
Banned
The remaster of a cult favourite 2010 PS3 game has topped the UK retail charts this week.
Nier Replicant ver.1.22474487139 tops the charts, knocking FIFA 21 down to No.2. The last Nier game that was released came in March 2017 in the form of the acclaimed Nier Automata. This remake sold 50% fewer copies than Automata.
89% of sales were on PS4 and 11% on Xbox One.
Nier Replicant ver.1.22474487139 tops the charts, knocking FIFA 21 down to No.2. The last Nier game that was released came in March 2017 in the form of the acclaimed Nier Automata. This remake sold 50% fewer copies than Automata.
89% of sales were on PS4 and 11% on Xbox One.
cireza
Member
SkylineRKR
Member
Emil is doing his best to make me misty eyed, jesus christ. This is just tragic.
Jeeves
Member
To understand the defensive reactions, put yourself in the shoes of a longtime fan of this game, back before it had any sort of acclaim attached to it. People played the game back then unsure of what to expect, and though it had plenty of flaws, fans still saw something special in it. Despite gaining some ardent fans, the game flopped so hard the developer was shut down.
Then Automata defies all expectations and is a runaway success. Great! But now there's a lot more people looking at this series than back when it was just the small but passionate group of fans. It's got mainstream attention now.
So now for longtime fans, having this less polished Nier be subject to a broader audience is a bit of a double-edged sword. The new players are coming into this game with more mainstream expectations, and to them it's not this special little flawed game that they cherish and were lucky to discover, it's standing on the shoulders of Automata and its reputation. They didn't go out of their way to investigate and take a chance on the game because something about it spoke to them. At least not the way that the original players did. Plus it's easy to ignore the game's vintage, which creates some more problems for expectations when you consider that some aspects of the game, such as level design, arguably felt a bit dated even at the time of the original release.
For the longtime fan, it's tiring to watch people rip on the game for its shortcomings, taking a less patient approach and demanding to know "When does this game get good?? I heard this was supposed to be the best game ever but it kind of sucks??" Or even worse, the ol' "LOL this game's just weeb trash, people just pretend to like it!". It's easy for me to understand a defensive reaction to this, especially considering this series and especially this particular game is still very much a scrappy underdog in our eyes. I'm glad that more people get to play it, but my personal gut reaction to most of the fresh wave of criticism is "Ugh I know it's flawed, the game was never meant to be for everyone. Now let us enjoy it in peace."
PS: This is really neither here nor there but unless I read wrong I don't think the person you're referencing actually put ten hours into the game before posting, I think they were just saying they heard it gets good at about ten hours and wanted to know if that was true.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Sorry, I don't have gaming PC. I mostly playing the game on my PS5 and runs pretty smoothly on that system.Danjin44
How is the PC port? And the remaster of Replicant compared to the original? Thinking of playing Nier Automata and then this at some point.
We never got Replicant version in west, the only difference between Replicant and Gestalt is the main character, in Replicant you play as Brother to Yonah but Gestalt you play as the father.
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RobRSG
Member
SafeOrAlone
Banned
I appreciate the explanation. I see where you are coming from. And maybe part of the problem is that I addressed that post to the room, rather than individuals, but despite your explanation, I think the reaction to critique has been overly sensitive. There are "extremists" on both sides of the conversation, which I think is what we are both addressing, just from opposite sides.
SkylineRKR
Member
NieR is more like a form of art, which means you either get it or you don't. And its thus hard to recommend. Its really the best way to describe it. Nier is about existentialism, nihilism and other topics. I hold the same opinion about Metal Gear Solid 2, its post-modernism fascinates me. Its the biggest reason why its my fave MGS and one of my fave of all time. But I can see why some players utterly hate it.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Been a decade since I played it, but yeah I believe there's new story bits on each run. Then eventually a final ending.
There might even be some new content on this one from what I heard.
killatopak
Gold Member
I haven’t gotten to that point yet but in the original there’s no difference.
Ending C and D is a choice you’re presented at the end.
edit: well now I’m not sure lol.
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nowhat
Gold Member
Hmm, getting conflicting info here I guess I'll give this a rest for a while, don't want to burn myself out with it. I've quite liked this so far, but while the added context was welcome on my second run, I would have appreciated a more Automata-like different approach to it.
One thing though regarding the ending, having the king of Facade and his soliders appear there out of nowhere was just stupid, and this is a hill I'm willing to die on.
I guess I'll give this a rest for a while, don't want to burn myself out with it. I've quite liked this so far, but while the added context was welcome on my second run, I would have appreciated a more Automata-like different approach to it.One thing though regarding the ending, having the king of Facade and his soliders appear there out of nowhere was just stupid, and this is a hill I'm willing to die on.
killatopak
Gold Member
Well, I can’t exactly remember the circumstances but at least he had the motivation to go there.
The Facade will always remember their debts no matter how hard the times and after what happened in Facade after the time skip, I think they were doing just that.
nowhat
Gold Member
The motivation I'm fine with. But how they got there was just 100% deus ex machina for me. Unless they can for example explain what happened to the humans for the "guard birds" to let them through. Not to mention the locked doors and all.