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Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do
- Thread starter antitrop
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I am never going to understand how people can simultaneously complain that Hanzo is too weak while his Scatter Arrow is overpowered. He's either a junk hero or he isn't. And imo, he's not.
There are two main things Hanzo players need:
1. Decent aim. Not even particularly good aim, since the arrows have a generous hitbox without being the logs that Hanzo used to toss, but they can also fire them rapidly with each of them doing high damage. As long as you can hit 1 arrow in 5, you're going to be doing decent DPS. So it's really just a matter of you or your team being able to follow through to finish off the kill.
2. Positioning. This is applicable to all heroes, but since Hanzo doesn't have any kind of escape ability, you're more or less committing to whatever position you take. Sure, you have your climb, but that's highly dependent on your enemy not having their own ability to follow you up. As such, it's pretty important for you to position yourself somewhere where the enemy has to fight your teammates before they take you on as much as possible, as that will give you the most opportunities to land your arrows. Note: DO NOT put yourself at a significant distance away from the point. You are not Widowmaker. You are not a sniper, whatever the game tells you. You are a mid-long range fighter and you want to be at a distance where the projectile nature of your arrows means as little as possible.
If a player is able to do these two things, then they are as good as any other pick.
There are two main things Hanzo players need:
1. Decent aim. Not even particularly good aim, since the arrows have a generous hitbox without being the logs that Hanzo used to toss, but they can also fire them rapidly with each of them doing high damage. As long as you can hit 1 arrow in 5, you're going to be doing decent DPS. So it's really just a matter of you or your team being able to follow through to finish off the kill.
2. Positioning. This is applicable to all heroes, but since Hanzo doesn't have any kind of escape ability, you're more or less committing to whatever position you take. Sure, you have your climb, but that's highly dependent on your enemy not having their own ability to follow you up. As such, it's pretty important for you to position yourself somewhere where the enemy has to fight your teammates before they take you on as much as possible, as that will give you the most opportunities to land your arrows. Note: DO NOT put yourself at a significant distance away from the point. You are not Widowmaker. You are not a sniper, whatever the game tells you. You are a mid-long range fighter and you want to be at a distance where the projectile nature of your arrows means as little as possible.
If a player is able to do these two things, then they are as good as any other pick.
I don't remember them saying ult charges would eventually carry over? But if that's true, that'd be nice. When you're losing in a game and the enemy team keep getting ults while your team don't... there's no fun in that.
Something else that would be nice is to adjust the random a bit by making sure there's always at least one healer on team. The number of times I saw my team with 0 healers while the other one had 2...
Nuno Pinto
Member
Today I sniped a Pharah across the map in Eichenwalde as Hanzo, I was at the entrance of the stairs on the left after the first checkpoint (that lead to a small health pack) and the Pharah was hovering above the second checkpoint.
The first thing that came to my mind was the image from komaru's avatar.
The first thing that came to my mind was the image from komaru's avatar.
While I agree that Hanzo is not bad, those two opinions can be held and be completely valid.
Scatter is a ridiculous ability that is not fun to have used against you. When players say things like 'Overpowered' that is really the thought they are trying to communicate.
As for Hanzo himself being 'underpowered'...well...he sort of is.
But only because he takes of skill to provide what still ends up being inconsistent damage. Again, it is not fun for the team to have a bad Hanzo because it is so easy to use him for an entire match and do effectively nothing.
A large percent of people who end up taking Hanzo would actually better off learning McCree and Soldier. They are much better consistent reliable damage dealers. Especially Soldier.
I have to disagree with even that definition of overpowered. I mean, what you find fun is subjective, so not the fun part, and Scatter Arrow is a powerful ability, but the same way you could play around Roadhog's hook, you can play around it too. More so than Soldier or McCree since, being hitscan, the only way to avoid them is to not get in the enemy players reticle. With Scatter Arrow, you have more options since, if you know it's coming, you can bait it out. Plenty of characters can evade or defend against it.
I'm not saying your wrong here, but 1. I see that as a fundamental flaw with Soldier and genuinely think he should not be doing the kind of damage he is currently doing 2. Consistent damage might not always be preferable to spike damage. For example, if a Zenyatta is using Trancendance, there's nothing Soldier could possibly do against anyone in that situation, but Hanzo could still score kills because his headshot damage is instantaneously larger non-tank characters health.
Like I said, you're not wrong, but my point is that if someone wants to play Hanzo, it always feels silly to me to stress about that hero pick. He doesn't need to be exceptionally consistent, just consistent enough, because the spike damage he ends up doing makes up for the difference.
*Unless they're a console Widow without a m/kb
I think it's the position that make decent aiming Hanzos bad. I had a game on the weekend on Gibraltar and we started off on defence, our team picks were going along nicely until the last person took his time, we probably could have gone with a 2nd dps but he goes Hanzo. Yager checks his stats and he's barely played him at all, ok let's roll with it.
We all set up around the usual spot just out of sight from enemy spawn but Hanzo decides to make himself known to the enemy team by setting up on the high bridge just above where the payload is based. This isn't always a problem, if you know what you're doing. I'm thinking 'ok, maybe he'll get a pick and retreat to our location'....
He dies in the first 5 seconds.
He rejoins the action but decides to stays on the ground, instead of finding a location above and raining arrows below, thus becoming fish food for the enemy Winston and Tracer. Realising he's doing nothing but feeding enemy ult, he then has the genius idea of going Genji, to further feed the Winston. We eventually lost because they capped the final point so quickly, not entirely his fault of course but he certainly didn't help. The enemy Winston was poppin' off like no one's business
In a game where Winstons and DVas are so prevalent in comp, I just don't think Hanzo belongs. We probably get a good Hanzo maybe 10% of the time and even then it's hard to tell whether they're actually contributing.
I think having a Hanzo that can actually stay alive and not feed (due to good positioning) would be ideal but they're rare occurences, on Xbox EU at least.
We all set up around the usual spot just out of sight from enemy spawn but Hanzo decides to make himself known to the enemy team by setting up on the high bridge just above where the payload is based. This isn't always a problem, if you know what you're doing. I'm thinking 'ok, maybe he'll get a pick and retreat to our location'....
He dies in the first 5 seconds.
He rejoins the action but decides to stays on the ground, instead of finding a location above and raining arrows below, thus becoming fish food for the enemy Winston and Tracer. Realising he's doing nothing but feeding enemy ult, he then has the genius idea of going Genji, to further feed the Winston. We eventually lost because they capped the final point so quickly, not entirely his fault of course but he certainly didn't help. The enemy Winston was poppin' off like no one's business
In a game where Winstons and DVas are so prevalent in comp, I just don't think Hanzo belongs. We probably get a good Hanzo maybe 10% of the time and even then it's hard to tell whether they're actually contributing.
I think having a Hanzo that can actually stay alive and not feed (due to good positioning) would be ideal but they're rare occurences, on Xbox EU at least.
Spamming arrows in a choke point in vague hopes that someone will run into them isn't any less legitimate a tactic than doing the same thing with Junkrat's grenade. It's how they're meant to be used.
Again, no matter what the game tells you, Hanzo is NOT a sniper. There is no "One Shot, One Kill" methodology with him like with Widow.
Blot out the sun with your arrows.
It's true enough Hanzo doesn't belong in the current meta, but I wouldn't begrudge someone for wanting to change it up. I don't really get people wanting to change scatter because it's not 'fun' to get killed by, i'll just lead to another roadhog situation where bad players are rewarded for not adapting.
If they ban everything that isn't 'fun' to get killed by, might as well delete symm
If they ban everything that isn't 'fun' to get killed by, might as well delete symm
Delete all Ults.
Delete Soldier entirely.
I got one a week back. He got play of the game and I think gold metals in damage and eliminations, even though we also had a genji and soldier on our team. At the end of the round, he thanked us for not shitting on him for picking Hanzo. And honestly, a positive mentality is big to this game. I bet he played better because we didn't decide to dogpile on him for picking a character he's clearly good with before the match even started. Not even a low-key passive aggressive "hey, if it doesn't work, can you switch? That'd be greaaaat..."
I got one a week back. He got play of the game and I think gold metals in damage and eliminations, even though we also had a genji and soldier on our team. At the end of the round, he thanked us for not shitting on him for picking Hanzo. And honestly, a positive mentality is big to this game. I bet he played better because we didn't decide to dogpile on him for picking a character he's clearly good with before the match even started. Not even a low-key passive aggressive "hey, if it doesn't work, can you switch? That'd be greaaaat..."
Which is why I never judge people in the start of a game. Pick whoever the fuck they want as long as the team comp makes sense. But if I see them constantly dying in the killfeed and not contributing, that's when I know they need to switch.
If they don't wanna switch, nothing we can do about it. Just gotta play your best.
Nocturnowl
Member
Hanzo is fascinating because a good one will ruin everyone's life, pirouetting around to instantly fire at someone coming from behind with a jammy looking headshot following by completing the spin with a scatter kill on the guy coming from the front.
And it makes me want to scream BULLSHIT, yet give me Hanzo and I can't do shit so obviously there's something to it.
All that said, Scatter Arrow is too strong, arrow hitboxes too large, screw Hanzo.
And it makes me want to scream BULLSHIT, yet give me Hanzo and I can't do shit so obviously there's something to it.
All that said, Scatter Arrow is too strong, arrow hitboxes too large, screw Hanzo.
I think Hanzo is a great character. I do not understand the hate he gets. He is just like Mccree, You have to have great aim and positioning to excel with him. I hate when people automatically throw a game by picking widow maker when I pick Hanzo.
Of course Hanzo is going to have weakness just like every other hero but that does not stop people picking Genji when there is a Winston or people picking Dva when there is a Zaraya on the other team.
Of course Hanzo is going to have weakness just like every other hero but that does not stop people picking Genji when there is a Winston or people picking Dva when there is a Zaraya on the other team.
Because bad players unwilling to switch or play tank/healer when the team needs it gravitate to Hanzo. A bad Hanzo is way worse than a bad tank/healer. It's not a hero problem, it's a playerbase problem. Everyone watches Seagull and thinks they can be hot shit with him too.
Yes, because her entire kit depends on getting getting shots in. There's no middleground, you can either aim with her precision rifle or you can't. Hanzo has a lot of allowances in comparison.
Hanzo can climb walls at any time, Widow has the longest mobility cooldown on one of the shittiest mobility abilities.
Hanzo's bow takes less time to draw AND he can move around more than she can while at full charge (or atleast it feels that way). And he doesn't even lose his charge when climbing anymore, while Widow has to recharge her shot every time she scopes in.
I'd even argue that Hanzo is easier to get shots in because he can be closer to the fight and his Arrows generous hitbox makes his shots easier to actually hit, other than the projectile based nature of them compared to Widow's hitscan.
Hanzo has Scatter Arrow that can take out tanks if shot correctly. Widow has a venom mine that mildly tickles the enemy.
Hanzo has a powerful offensive ult that can destroy entire teams if used right. Widowmaker has a slightly better version of Hanzo's sonar arrow (Which, btw, alerts the enemy when it's used via voiceline while Hanzo's is silent).
I can accept the argument that Widowmaker is fine on PC because the precision of the mouse allows her to be used if the player is skilled enough, but the lack of precision a controller provides means she is a fundamentally useless character on console. I bitch a lot about m/kb users with her, but honestly, I can't blame people for doing that when Widow is abjectly useless without it. She needs a symmetra style rework on her console counterpart.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
Summer games starts today?
Thewonandonly
Junior Member
Is it just me or is doomfist terrible at attack. Now sure it was quick play so we were running no healers and a widow for attack, but I still couldn't do shit. I would charge it pin one guy to the wall then immediately get killed by his two buddies right next to him. Mabey I suck but it seems like if it is 2 v 1 even if you kill the first one your fucked...
While on defense you can just pick of the flankers that get by and have your team distracting them on defense while you start recking havoc.
While on defense you can just pick of the flankers that get by and have your team distracting them on defense while you start recking havoc.
Carl-Sagan
Member
No one knows.
Dead Prince
Banned
so is doom going to be today or thursday?
Jimnymebob
Member
In my opinion, he's definitely another example of why the attack, defence, support, tank labels need to be reworked. He works better on defence for me, but then again, I prefer playing defence Genji and annoying/distracting their back lines. Either way, I prefer hanging back with my team and just punishing anyone who tries to dive or attack a point by themselves.
If I'm outnumbered, I tend to do shoot, seismic slam, shoot, uppercut, shoot in midair against the lowest HP target, which should kill them, then when I land, I can either just rocket punch the other person, or if there are more, just either repeat that combo, or do something like shoot, uncharged punch, shoot, uppercut, shoot, then slam the 3rd enemy if it's a 1v3, and then repeat on him etc. You gain shields for using your skills, so when you're outnumbered it's good to use as many of them as possible. Luckily, the fact that all of your skills move your character helps you manuovere around them while taking them out. But yeah, unless you're just going for a fully charged rocket punch, make sure you shoot before using an ability.
I don't know what you mean by that, but aside from the PTR update, it's unknown if the 2017Summer Games will happen this week or whenever.
Carl-Sagan
Member
There weren't any announcements for last year's Summer Games event. At least I don't think there was.
Overwatch needs it's own "I feel a disturbance in the force" meme.
But they did announce the last event one week in advance. Don't remember about the others though.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
I feel like we're on the biggest break in between events there's ever been?
Carl-Sagan
Member
Then if anything, we get an announcement today about it at 2PM CST.
Saying scatter arrow is a bullshit move is not the same as saying hanzo is a weak character; the two modes of thought are not mutually exclusive. Hanzo needs to reliably being getting a pick or two every encounter. Scatter might be good for one and then your aim needs to do the rest otherwise you're not doing much to help your team in fights whereas a soldier or mcCree would be reliably getting you picks every encounter. Hanzo also lacks mobility to escape if he gets flanked or jumped on and his terrible health.
Additionally, hook vs scatter arrow is a pretty terrible comparison. There's little you can do against rng and there are plenty of videos of characters not even in a fire fight getting one shot by a stray arrow (rapida just had a video showing an Anna getting iced from like 50 meters away from the initial arrow). Hog didn't have any range that resembled that type of ability and additionally he actually had to hit you for his hook to go through (And then shoot and likely melee for the kill). It was designed to punish bad positioning and it worked as such. Even if you jump up when hanzo scatter arrows you, you could still die. It's a bullshit rng mechanic that shouldn't exist and is much more bs than anything hog ever had because hog had to actually hit you with his shots to kill you quickly. Hanzo needs to just shoot an arrow in your general vecenity.
I'm genuinely shocked people are making this comparison here tbh.
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