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[Tagg9]

Pachter right on the money again. I don't expect a lot of exciting news from their E3 Direct, as they haven't introduced new non-casual IP in ages (and no, I do not count Steel Diver and Dillon's Rolling Western). Is a new Zelda really so exciting now? This marks the 6th entry in the 3D Zelda series.

You people need to realize what the public perception is of Nintendo at the moment. I was telling everyone at work how incredibly awesome Mario Kart 8 is, and all I got in response was "Why must Nintendo keep making the same games over and over? I played that game 15 years ago. Give us something new!"

 

[border]

I agree that there are the super giant moments best suited for a physical huge theater conference, but... those kinds of moments really only happen at the start of a new hardware generation. Every other huge "we need press in seats right now" moment I can think of like the one you're describing has been a hardware reveal or blowout.

Zelda E3 2004 Admittedly it's a rare occurence.

I don't think it's unfair to say that mainstream coverage is influenced by fan and showfloor reactions. If the Wii hadn't had 3 hour lines stretching for a quarter mile around the booth, I suspect it might have been dismissed as a Guitar Hero-esque gimmick by newspapers and TV. Instead it got the lion's share of all mainstream coverage and every other publisher revolted, nearly destroying E3.

The press conferences just exist as a way for the big guns to set themselves apart from rank and file publishers. It's a way for a select few to emphasize "Here's what's really important - our content! And you know it's important because we spent all this money on this big event." Nintendo no doubt has some sort of small scale media briefing, but so does everyone else most likely.

Why do you think Microsoft and Samsung have started holding big Apple-style press conferences for (what they hope are) flagship mobile products? Same deal. If you produce a big spectacle, then you get better coverage.

 

[Loco4Coco]

Well letting the press into parties etc. helps you getting attention and therefore being likeable and getting coverage I guess.
I'm not agreeing on this one (they'll lose for me but because of their blindness)

Nintendo, the Ray Charles of the gaming world.

 

[border]

Mario Kart 8 was introduced through last year E3 direct and sold well world wide.

Mario Kart 8 would have sold well if they had introduced it in a 4AM infomercial on Comedy Central. It's Mario Kart. And not to downplay its performance too much, but they did kinda have to promise everyone on the planet a free game just to get those sales.

Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze was also introduced in the E3 Direct and its sales were pretty tepid. Most people seem to think that SM3DW underperformed as well.

 

[MisterHero]

Pachter right on the money again. I don't expect a lot of exciting news from their E3 Direct, as they haven't introduced new non-casual IP in ages (and no, I do not count Steel Diver and Dillon's Rolling Western). Is a new Zelda really so exciting now? This marks the 6th entry in the 3D Zelda series.

You people need to realize what the public perception is of Nintendo at the moment. I was telling everyone at work how incredibly awesome Mario Kart 8 is, and all I got in response was "Why must Nintendo keep making the same games over and over? I played that game 15 years ago. Give us something new!"

Xenoblade/X. It will probably be their big non-Zelda game this year.

Bolded: They are wrong. VERY wrong especially if they've ignored everything Nintendo's done in the last 15 years.

 

[Ridley327]

Pachter right on the money again. I don't expect a lot of exciting news from their E3 Direct, as they haven't introduced new non-casual IP in ages (and no, I do not count Steel Diver and Dillon's Rolling Western). Is a new Zelda really so exciting now? This marks the 6th entry in the 3D Zelda series.

You people need to realize what the public perception is of Nintendo at the moment. I was telling everyone at work how incredibly awesome Mario Kart 8 is, and all I got in response was "Why must Nintendo keep making the same games over and over? I played that game 15 years ago. Give us something new!"

Didn't Wonderful 101 come out just last year? If you're going to discredit that on the basis that Nintendo didn't develop it themselves, then what about the likes of Xenoblade? Four years is hardly "ages" in time.

 

[Servbot24]

Wait, if we're basing this off past showings then Sony and MSFT aren't in the same league as Nintendo. Who has spent 30 minutes every other month for the past year giving us information on new games before, during and after E3s? Who gave us E3 demos, and multiple preview events around the country during the year? All we get out of MSFT and Sony are tidbits and leaks, usually when it's already been forced into the open. Some companies won't even tell us willingly who is working on the games we're already supposed to be pre-ordering, do you have high hopes for them?

I have no idea what this post is.

I'm not talking about all the months around the year. I'm talking about E3. I don't care about floor demos because I won't be there. I care about announcements. We always get much more than tidbits from MS and Sony at E3, not sure where you're pulling that from.

I do expect Sony to have an underwhelming E3 though. MS will probably "win".

 

[Mine01]

Its funny how nintendo "always do the same" while all next gen games worth waiting for are sequels or yearly franchises, while nintendo games just came one or 2 per console.

 

[Mariolee]

Pachter right on the money again. I don't expect a lot of exciting news from their E3 Direct, as they haven't introduced new non-casual IP in ages (and no, I do not count Steel Diver and Dillon's Rolling Western). Is a new Zelda really so exciting now? This marks the 6th entry in the 3D Zelda series.

You people need to realize what the public perception is of Nintendo at the moment. I was telling everyone at work how incredibly awesome Mario Kart 8 is, and all I got in response was "Why must Nintendo keep making the same games over and over? I played that game 15 years ago. Give us something new!"

Whenever Nintendo makes something new nobody cares.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Didn't Wonderful 101 come out just last year? If you're going to discredit that on the basis that Nintendo didn't develop it themselves, then what about the likes of Xenoblade? Four years is hardly "ages" in time.

Xenoblade is at least made by a subsidiary. Steel Diver and Dillion are not, meaning TW101 should count.

 

[ponpo]

I don't care about nintendo at all but Pachter says some dumb shit sometimes. If they announce 'earth shattering' titles it won't matter 'because you don't own a Wii U'? Wouldn't good titles give people reasons to buy one? How would it not matter.

 

[Ansatz]

Pachter right on the money again. I don't expect a lot of exciting news from their E3 Direct, as they haven't introduced new non-casual IP in ages (and no, I do not count Steel Diver and Dillon's Rolling Western). Is a new Zelda really so exciting now? This marks the 6th entry in the 3D Zelda series.

You people need to realize what the public perception is of Nintendo at the moment. I was telling everyone at work how incredibly awesome Mario Kart 8 is, and all I got in response was "Why must Nintendo keep making the same games over and over? I played that game 15 years ago. Give us something new!"

We are constantly fed the public perception though, we know that. Some of us want in depth coverage and discussion from the fan perspective. Things like speculating what the NFC game will be, when and what they will announce on the hardware front, will this Zelda target the western AAA gamer and be like the tech demo, or go for a whimsical artstyle again.

I'm aware of the fact that some people consider Zelda to be the same old game. I do the same thing with TLoU, to me that's just a reskinned Uncharted. We have now 5 Uncharted-style games and I got bored after the third entry. RDR is GTA with horses. What matters is the underlying gameplay, not the setting and story. From my perspective, each new Zelda entry is more fresh and unique than actual new IPs like those I listed. Those games have absolutely no gameplay substance. I'm tired of the sites taking the general consumer perspective. Talk about how fucking amazing Bayonetta 2 will be instead.

The Nintendo segments on GT, IGN, Gamespot, etc. are made for the Sony/MS fanbase. It can be positive but it's superficial at best because those guys own Nintendo hardware as a secondary system for Mario and Zelda. That's the core issue, they don't really do content aimed specifically for hardcore Nintendo fans.

 

[Chaos17]

I was telling everyone at work how incredibly awesome Mario Kart 8 is, and all I got in response was "Why must Nintendo keep making the same games over and over? I played that game 15 years ago. Give us something new!"

Right, like all those FPS always been the same for the 10 past, years.

 

[Amazeballs]

Lol the Smash Bros. commentary would've been sad if there wasn't someone to correct him. Just goes to show punditry isn't always valuable.

Is punditry ever valuable? Pundits exist to confirm and disseminate everyone else's opinions. There's hardly anything to learn from them. Not sure why people give them the time of day. Well, I have an idea as to why but it's none too flattering.

 

[Ridley327]

Xenoblade is at least made by a subsidiary. Steel Diver and Dillion are not, meaning TW101 should count.

I mean, that's kind of the thing that really annoys me when people try say something like W101 doesn't count. So Nintendo didn't make, but who the hell else was going to pay for it? It's not like Platinum has some Nazi gold reserve they can tap into to fund their crazy games with highly questionable commercial prospects. Nintendo wanted the game to happen, and that's a strong enough statement in of itself.

 

[Grinchy]

Based on the first couple of posts in this thread I was expecting him to give some sort of nasty verbal beatdown to Nintendo but it never came. Some of you are easily riled up.

This is why I love it when Pachter talks about Nintendo. It makes for some hilarious threads.

 

[Soriku]

Nintendo will have the best show IMO if they at least show Zelda U, X, and SMTxFE.

 

[lightzGamin]

U guys just mad cause he speaks the truth. Wii U is irrelevant at this point, ps4 will sell over 100M consoles, xbox1 80M, wii u 8 million shipped to retailers, and Nintendo will never reveal true sales out of embarrassment.

 

[vinnygambini]

U guys just mad cause he speaks the truth. Wii U is irrelevant at this point, ps4 will sell over 100M consoles, xbox1 80M, wii u 8 million shipped to retailers, and Nintendo will never reveal true sales out of embarrassment.

...

 

[border]

Its funny how nintendo "always do the same" while all next gen games worth waiting for are sequels or yearly franchises, while nintendo games just came one or 2 per console.

Many publishers have new IPs every year, in addition to annualized sequels. This year there is plenty of new projects to look forward to -- Drive Club, The Division, The Evil Within, Destiny, The Order, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, D4, Rime, No Man's Sky, Evolve, Lords of the Fallen, Fantasia, The Last Guardian, etc, etc.

It's pretty rare for Nintendo to give new IP the time, money, and attention that they give to established properties. People will cite Wonderful 101 as an example of a new IP they published. But they didn't develop it and as far as I know they gave it very little in the way of marketing support.

X is a new IP as well, but how much support is that game going to get when NoA had to nearly be forced to publish Xenoblade?

 

[Renekton]

I wonder if it is true that 50% people who talk passionately about a platform or game don't actually own it?

 

[Loco4Coco]

Pachter just posted on this thread guys!

 

[AcademicSaucer]

But Nintendo isnt going to E3

And Patcher, the thing is , there are a lot of Nintendo fans that only like their handhelds, the home consoles are a different beast

 

[Ridley327]

Many publishers have new IPs every year, in addition to annualized sequels. This year there is plenty of new projects to look forward to -- Drive Club, The Division, The Evil Within, Destiny, The Order, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, D4, Rime, No Man's Sky, Evolve, Lords of the Fallen, Fantasia, The Last Guardian, etc, etc.

It's pretty rare for Nintendo to give new IP the time, money, and attention that they give to established properties. People will cite Wonderful 101 as an example of a new IP they published. But they didn't develop it and as far as I know they gave it very little in the way of marketing support.

Why is this at all important to whether something counts or not? Nintendo paid for the game to happen, they consulted on the project frequently, and they even went as far to pick up another game from them, which is a sequel to a game that did not do particularly well in the first place.

It's such a silly distinction to make, because that means games like Demon's Souls, Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, Alan Wake, and surely dozens others fall under the same criticism. These games do not exist without their respective first parties being confident enough in them to get funding.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

he is spot on about the fans, I am tired of listening to fools talk about when this game comes out and a price drop I'll buy a WiiU but they get angry when the media says Nintendo is doomed

Yup.

He was 100% spot on, imo, regarding people voting with their wallets.

 

[MattyG]

Pachter just posted on this thread guys!

On or in? Imma need a link either way, I want to see what he said.

 

[vinnygambini]

Many publishers have new IPs every year, in addition to annualized sequels. This year there is plenty of new projects to look forward to -- Drive Club, The Division, The Evil Within, Destiny, The Order, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, D4, Rime, No Man's Sky, Evolve, Lords of the Fallen, Fantasia, The Last Guardian, etc, etc.

It's pretty rare for Nintendo to give new IP the time, money, and attention that they give to established properties. People will cite Wonderful 101 as an example of a new IP they published. But they didn't develop it and as far as I know they gave it very little in the way of marketing support.

X is a new IP as well, but how much support is that game going to get when NoA had to nearly be forced to publish Xenoblade?

I definitely understand the premise of Nintendo failing to provide new properties comparatively to other publishers; however, in my opinion, Kid Icarus and Luigi's Mansion falls into the new property category although a revival of an old intellectual property, I think we might see more revivals moving forward.

For the bolded, Nintendo has given both Fire Emblem : Awakening and Bravely Default a great marketing push, and have been rewarded for the efforts although one would of initially thought those were niche, and not mainstream products - one might see such a campaign for X and equal success.

 

[Loco4Coco]

On or in? Imma need a link either way, I want to see what he said.

U guys just mad cause he speaks the truth. Wii U is irrelevant at this point, ps4 will sell over 100M consoles, xbox1 80M, wii u 8 million shipped to retailers, and Nintendo will never reveal true sales out of embarrassment.

Spoiler

That's not him

 

[justchris]

Had every single person in this thread forgotten that the 3DS exists? You don't have to have a Wii U to be a Nintendo fan. You also don't have to buy every game that comes out. I won't be getting Mario Kart 8, but I plan to buy both versions of SSB4.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Neogaf is made up mostly of PC and Nintendo fans but you have to realise that it is not representative of the gaming market.

From my experience i would say that the vast mayority of people in GAF, like more than one platform.

 

[MisterHero]

Is punditry ever valuable? Pundits exist to confirm and disseminate everyone else's opinions. There's hardly anything to learn from them. Not sure why people give them the time of day. Well, I have an idea as to why but it's none too flattering.

Of course. But Pachter and others are treating Nintendo fanboys as only capable of behaving irrationally. I'd like to at least argue against that perspective.

I think it would behoove Nintendo detractors that fanboys don't agree with Nintendo 100% of the time. Nintendo is praised for balancing quality and affordability in their games and hardware. 3DS and Wii U did not meet those standards with their original launch prices. Combining the price of the current 3DS and Wii U is still a big purchase, but at least Nintendo's closer to where they should be.

 

[MattyG]

Spoiler

That's not him

Oh wow, woosh, right over my head.

Spoiler

It probably is.

 

[DNAbro]

U guys just mad cause he speaks the truth. Wii U is irrelevant at this point, ps4 will sell over 100M consoles, xbox1 80M, wii u 8 million shipped to retailers, and Nintendo will never reveal true sales out of embarrassment.

joking or no? can never tell

 

[StevieP]

U guys just mad cause he speaks the truth. Wii U is irrelevant at this point, ps4 will sell over 100M consoles, xbox1 80M, wii u 8 million shipped to retailers, and Nintendo will never reveal true sales out of embarrassment.

Haha 100m and 80m

 

[rdrr gnr]

Like, there's a million ways to criticize Nintendo's handling of press, but I've never understood this arbitrary line in the sand drawn between a corporate charade streamed online and liveblogged by journalists where PR people and executives show carefully crafted videos and announcements of their marketing message, and that exact same thing but there's a white background sometimes and no fanboy screaming in the back.

Are you seriously arguing the difference between a live event and something pre-recorded? You don't see the inherent appeal of something being done in real-time? As a non-journalist and non-PR person the appeal is still there.

Because gamers hate change, basically.
It's new and different.

Oh, but let's ignore the fact that E3, for most of its existence, was never even seen by the public and that the conferences are a very recent thing that gamers actually get to see.

It's mind boggling.

Nintendo is streamlining their game announcements. Less fluff and filler. More games. And that's seen as a bad thing.

New, different and worse. I'm pretty I've seen some "fluff" in directs or at least content that did not warrant a special event.

He's still so bitter about being so wrong about the Wii. :lol

I can't tell if you're serious.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Mario Kart 8 would have sold well if they had introduced it in a 4AM infomercial on Comedy Central. It's Mario Kart. And not to downplay its performance too much, but they did kinda have to promise everyone on the planet a free game just to get those sales.

Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze was also introduced in the E3 Direct and its sales were pretty tepid. Most people seem to think that SM3DW underperformed as well.

Pikmen and Nintendo land were introduced through a regular conference and under preformed while Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem and even the 3DS XL were introduced through directs and succeeded which implies that the new Nintendo Web cast approach is successful in getting the message across which can observed through Nintendo's enthusiasm this year. My guess is that Nintendo's Web cast platform will evolve into modernized version of their Nintendo Power

 

[AcademicSaucer]

U guys just mad cause he speaks the truth. Wii U is irrelevant at this point, ps4 will sell over 100M consoles, xbox1 80M, wii u 8 million shipped to retailers, and Nintendo will never reveal true sales out of embarrassment.

 

[BM8]

 

[mario_O]

Haha 100m and 80m

Why not? The PS360 is close to that figure, and with Nintendo's console with even less support I don't see why that's not possible.

 

[Opinionatedfish]

Oh we're insinuating Pachter is a racist now... Good grief.

Oh no. Not insinuating that at all. I was just saying that his voice and vocal mannerisms sounds exactly like a landlord I didn't like. Although I thought it was pretty funny when he said "whitebread" in his rant. It kind of makes me believe that he's exactly like many people his age who may have a few politically incorrect terms still stuck in their dialogue and he's trying to make sure those don't slip out in recorded conversation, hence the hesitation in some of his dialogue.

He's not a racist, but -if he's not on guard- he's probably a lot saltier and more politically incorrect than he appears in recorded videos.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Sorry, but not even knowing that there's a new fucking Smash Bros coming out just shows that Pachter doesn't know two cents worth of shit about anything he's blabbering about.

 

[border]

Pikmen and Nintendo land were introduced through a regular conference and under preformed while Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem and even the 3DS XL were introduced through directs and succeeded which implies that the new Nintendo Web cast approach is successful in getting the message across which can observed through Nintendo's enthusiasm this year.

Like Mario Kart, Pokemon and Animal Crossing are pretty huge IPs that would do well with or without a press conference introduction. Nintendoland was bundled with the hardware and Pikman has always been a B-tier property. I really don't think you can adequately chalk up a title's success or failure to the method by which it was introduced -- particularly when you are talking about very well established and loved franchises. There are way too many other factors at play (franchise history, marketing support, reviews, what time of year the game gets released).

 

[wildfire]

It's funny that Pachter's probably most important claims to pay attention to in this segment have been fairly ignored'

He expects MK8

• To move around 1.5M Wii U's
• To sell around 5M

I think that 5M might be a tad low although with it's current install base I guess it's impossible for it to sell 10M+ anyways but overall he seems fairly optimistic on its performance I think given Wii U's relative performance

It's "funnier" to comment on the things he says that are controversial.

Compared to the other videos about MS and Sony he didn't say much about what he thinks will happen at E3 which is why I watch these videos in the first place. His expectations of no new surprises will be dashed.

 

[border]

I definitely understand the premise of Nintendo failing to provide new properties comparatively to other publishers; however, in my opinion, Kid Icarus and Luigi's Mansion falls into the new property category although a revival of an old intellectual property, I think we might see more revivals moving forward.

For the bolded, Nintendo has given both Fire Emblem : Awakening and Bravely Default a great marketing push, and have been rewarded for the efforts although one would of initially thought those were niche, and not mainstream products - one might see such a campaign for X and equal success.

The titles you mention are mostly in the portable world, where Nintendo dominates comfortably and a little marketing money goes a long way since almost nobody else will spend money on a TV or print ad campaign for a mobile game. It's much harder to get noticed in the console space.

I certainly hope Nintendo becomes less risk-averse in the console segment of the market, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Amazeballs]

I definitely understand the premise of Nintendo failing to provide new properties comparatively to other publishers; however, in my opinion, Kid Icarus and Luigi's Mansion falls into the new property category although a revival of an old intellectual property, I think we might see more revivals moving forward.

For the bolded, Nintendo has given both Fire Emblem : Awakening and Bravely Default a great marketing push, and have been rewarded for the efforts although one would of initially thought those were niche, and not mainstream products - one might see such a campaign for X and equal success.

Nintendo provide new properties, moreso than most other publishers in the last decade. It's just that a lot of those properties aren't "hardcore." Some of those fell by the wayside when the blue ocean left. Their current strategy seems to be trialing new properties as budget titles before iterating and scaling them up as we've seen with Pushmo and the new Pushmo world. Of course those don't count because instead of finding ways to do new things in an economically viable manner, Nintendo should be putting all their funds into bloated AAA titles because that worked out sooo well for so many developers last gen.

Of course. But Pachter and others are treating Nintendo fanboys as only capable of behaving irrationally. I'd like to at least argue against that perspective.

I think it would behoove Nintendo detractors that fanboys don't agree with Nintendo 100% of the time. Nintendo is praised for balancing quality and affordability in their games and hardware. 3DS and Wii U did not meet those standards with their original launch prices. Combining the price of the current 3DS and Wii U is still a big purchase, but at least Nintendo's closer to where they should be.

A futile effort. The kind of people who agree with this drivel and rely on it to validate their opinions aren't looking to discuss and learn. They wouldn't be like that if they were. Hell, they aren't not even discerning enough to see some of the blatant inaccuracies in his statement.

 

[Nilaul]

Showcasing your biggest fighting game for a few hours live during E3 with top competitive players is a bad idea? I'd love to know why.

I would imagine It would make those companies that show pre recorded gameplay as live footage look bad.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

Pachter! lol

He's awesome, much in the same way Ringo Star is the best Beatle: becoming filthy rich due to others hard work, just sitting there beating your drums

 

[Kozak]

Maybe Nintendo just doesn't give a fuck cause they know the Wii U is bomba?

Why put money and resources into a failed product right?

 

[vinnygambini]

Nintendo provide new properties, moreso than most other publishers in the last decade. It's just that a lot of those properties aren't "hardcore." Some of those fell by the wayside when the blue ocean left. Their current strategy seems to be trialing new properties as budget titles before iterating and scaling them up as we've seen with Pushmo and the new Pushmo world. Of course those don't count because instead of finding ways to do new things in an economically viable manner, Nintendo should be putting all their funds into bloated AAA titles because that worked out sooo well for so many developers last gen.

How did you extrapolate such a response from my comment Amazeballs?

 

[border]

Sorry, but not even knowing that there's a new fucking Smash Bros coming out just shows that Pachter doesn't know two cents worth of shit about anything he's blabbering about.

He obviously knows that a new Smash Brothers is coming out. He just didn't think Nintendo would be holding a tournament around an unreleased game.

Their current strategy seems to be trialing new properties as budget titles before iterating and scaling them up as we've seen with Pushmo and the new Pushmo world. Of course those don't count because instead of finding ways to do new things in an economically viable manner, Nintendo should be putting all their funds into bloated AAA titles because that worked out sooo well for so many developers last gen.

There are just as many (if not more) failures in the budget/mobile market as there are in the AAA market.