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[mehrmantrout]

So they win the World Cup, and then they finance attacks on the Western world? That is the plot of a bad James Bond film.

Even in that scenario, they would wait until the World Cup to engage their masterplan. And even then what does it accomplish. A war between Islam and the West, essentially no trade and a blockade of money into the country. They go from an emerging power to a essentially modern Iraq overnight. It is not sensible at any level.

Edit: I apologize. I lost myself for a moment there. This tragedy is bigger then a bunch of nonsensical conspiracy bullshit.

Its not a conspiracy, have a read

http://carnegie-mec.org/2014/09/11/qatar-and-recalibration-of-power-in-gulf
http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/qatar-rise-underdog

Edit i'll leave this for now, no doubt a more suitable thread will popup in the next few days

 

[Hedge]

So after what Hollande said, is it confirmed that Daesh was behind the attacks?
Or rather, they are at least claiming responsibility?

 

[Kuldar]

AFP: #BREAKING: Islamic State group claims Paris attacks

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/665481882927276032

 

[Sijil]

So after what Hollande said, is it confirmed that Daesh was behind the attacks?
Or rather, they are at least claiming responsibility?

ISIS did not claim responsibility yet, either there are more attacks to come or they're waiting for better timing, making propaganda videos etc.... Or it was another group like AQAP who was responsible for the attack on Charlie Hebdo, and got away clean with the attack since KSA has a close relationship with AQAP in Yemen fighting Iranian backed Houthi rebels.

One theory for why Hollande would accuse ISIS with confidence is that his Gulf allies, mainly Qatar, assured him that it was not AQ.

EDIT: Looks like the did claim responsibility, still I need to see proof that they did it and not taking credit for home grown and self nurtured terrorists.

 

[Betty]

AFP: #BREAKING: Islamic State group claims Paris attacks

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/665481882927276032

Hold your surprise guys.

 

[C4Lukins]

Its not a conspiracy, have a read

http://carnegie-mec.org/2014/09/11/qatar-and-recalibration-of-power-in-gulf
http://politicsandpolicy.org/article/qatar-rise-underdog

Edit i'll leave this for now, no doubt a more suitable thread will popup in the next few days

I will check out your sources, but I will no longer discuss this aspect of the topic in this thread. All due respect.

 

[Jb]

NOTE TO PARIS/FRANCE GAF

Most hospitals cannot deal with influx of blood donors right now (but check your local center to be sure). On the other hand they will need a lot of blood donations during the coming week in order to restock.

Thanks for the info, I'll give Monday if they need mine. Wish I could do more.

 

[Apt101]

I could see why ME refugees integrate more slowly into new societies than other groups. They were forced out of their homes and it's a big culture shock comparatively. In some cases they arrived in an atmosphere after 9/11 that wasn't exactly inviting. The willing immigrants though I don't understand. I can only look on as on outside observer with next to no knowledge about where they came from and the systems in place in their new homes, but I know from experience in America that this isn't a problem. People come from all over to this country, and while they retain their cultural they seem to end up fitting in just fine - even within a single generation. Hell we celebrate it and encourage them and enjoy it when they set up their own little "towns" within a city. And they seem to enjoy that encouragement and celebration.

I mean, I'm a product of first generation Irish and Filipino immigrants. We were the very image of the "typical working class family" coming up. Lived the dream and all, with a few of us kids going to college and everyone ending up in biracial marriages with the natives. So to see entire groups of people immigrating to a new country and refusing to adapt is just odd to me - but I'm reading up and trying to understand why that is.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

People are queuing at George Pompidou hospital to donate their blood

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/en-d...is-hopital-georges-pompidou-vient-ouvrir.html

EDIT: and Saint-Louis hospital

 

[neorej]

AFP: #BREAKING: Islamic State group claims Paris attacks

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/665481882927276032

Shocking news indeed. I have my surprise face on.

 

[Phantast2k]

Some things for you to think about / address (I you care to):
1) A lot of Westerners joining ISIS are well-educated and well off (same think applies to 9/11 hijackers btw. - at least those from KSA)
2) You come from a gulf country afair. Some of the gulf countries practically hold people as slaves, yet there is zero radicalization from them.
3) What is the mistreatment you speak of exactly? In most of Europe Muslims can practice their religion more freely than in some predominantly Muslim countries.

1) They have grievances with current wars and unwavering support for Israel. They are warped individuals that are chastised by regular Muslims, and are isolated from them. It's not scripture but current affairs that corrupt them.
2) ?
3) Hate crime against muslims have increased 10 fold, in UK for instance police have created a new category for hate crime known has anti Muslim, which will be treated the same as anti-semitic
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/13/police-must-record-anti-muslim-hate-crimes

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with him, I just find it weird how some Muslims stonewall against the thought that their particular religion is part of the problem too. Hence I gave examples of oppressed people in his / her region who do not resort to mass murder of civilians, I alluded to the fact that many of the Islamic terrorists are in fact not oppressed and, especially, can practice their religion more freely than in other countries (especially small Islamic sects). I don't necessary search for answers, just wanted for the poster to think about it.
I am not denying hate crimes against Muslims. This is like a vicious cycle: with every attack there will be more and more backlash and with every backlash there will be more secluded Muslims.
And I'm not sure why you ignored no. 2 there. Hopefully not because you deny the existence of slaves in the Gulf.

But overall I don't think this is the correct thread to peruse this discussion. Maybe there should be a separate thread for that.

 

[Lutherian]

NOTE TO PARIS/FRANCE GAF

Most hospitals cannot deal with influx of blood donors right now (but check your local center to be sure). On the other hand they will need a lot of blood donations during the coming week in order to restock.



From where I am the city feels like an especially quiet January 1st.

And likewise : )

This time I hope they won't refuse my blood because I'm gay.

 

[2San]

Yes? You were saying the fourth didn't exist and the third generation are just young kids. Don't think your logic works, right?

Friends of mine (20-30) have kids (4. generation), their parents are 50-60 (2. generation), with their grandparents being around 80 (1. generation).

Maybe that makes it clearer.

Most of the original Turkish immigrants stem from 1960s to 1970s the kids they brought with them are still first generation immigrants. The oldest of the second generation are 55 tops (this is a small group) most of the second generation is younger.

In the Netherlands the third generation vast majority consist of young kids and the fouth generation is almost non existent this is based on reports provided by the national statistics bureau. Our Turkish guest workers also stem from 1960s to 1970s. So I can't imagine Germany having that different demographics.

AFP: #BREAKING: Islamic State group claims Paris attacks

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/665481882927276032

I am shocked. >_>

They're the least integrated.

I'm talking about integration over generations rather than between groups.

 

[UnluckyKate]

NOTE TO PARIS/FRANCE GAF

Most hospitals cannot deal with influx of blood donors right now (but check your local center to be sure). On the other hand they will need a lot of blood donations during the coming week in order to restock.



From where I am the city feels like an especially quiet January 1st.

And likewise : )

want to give blood but heart and blood pression doesn't allow me wanted to do my part

 

[LiK]

fucking ISIS.

 

[Slaythe]

ParisGAF, if you guys need help with anything, I'm there, I actually live in the charonne street, so feel free to ask.

 

[llehuty]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

 

[C4Lukins]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

Double post

 

[R_thanatos]

AFP: #BREAKING: Islamic State group claims Paris attacks

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/665481882927276032

Not surprised , but damn i'm angry.

At least as a french i'm proud of the way we dealt with it during the night .since many people helped those without a home last night.

Not to mention that blood donations reserve are full now.
I will help whenever possible

 

[Majukun]

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with him, I just find it weird how some Muslims stonewall against the thought that their particular religion is part of the problem too. Hence I gave examples of oppressed people in his / her region who do not resort to mass murder of civilians, I alluded to the fact that many of the Islamic terrorists are in fact not oppressed and, especially, can practice their religion more freely than in other countries (especially small Islamic sects). I don't necessary search for answers, just wanted for the poster to think about it.
I am not denying hate crimes against Muslims. This is like a vicious cycle: with every attack there will be more and more backlash and with every backlash there will be more secluded Muslims.
And I'm not sure why you ignored no. 2 there. Hopefully not because you deny the existence of slaves in the Gulf.

But overall I don't think this is the correct thread to peruse this discussion. Maybe there should be a separate thread for that.

they re not oppressed because they are not following a "special religion"
they are following the same religion as everyone else
but they interpret it differently..the focal point is that,interpretation..because what they teach is written in paper in the quran..but here are the muslims that know that the quran must not be interpreted literally,that it was written i reflexion of its times,and people that instead decide to be really militant and literal about it
same things happen to the bible actually...hell we have many countries where gay marriage is still illegal just because of some parts of the bible..so it's not like the west it's totally free from influence by religion

 

[DiipuSurotu]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

What about the "Parisians everywhere are offering their homes to people who are stranded or who need a place to rest" and "Parisians are donating their blood en masse to help" messages?

 

[Xun]

So it was ISIS?

I'm absolutely shocked.

 

[dabig2]

Seriously. There are plenty of dirt-poor, systemically-abused ethnic groups in the world who aren't resorting to this level of violence to solve their issues.

Just because it doesn't happen everywhere doesn't mean it happens nowhere. Tell me, how did the ira rise to such power. I mean, they were the leading terrorist group in the world for decades. And they weren't Muslim. What teachings radicalized them and why? How?

At the heart of the matter is that pissed off impoverished people are going to get angry. They turn to crutches and one of them is religion. They then get violent. 20 something males with no social structure and repressed in some way is a recipe for disaster. And yes, the West helped and still helps that repressive system to exis and thrive. We harp on this because apparently we haven't learned shit in 70 years judging by some of the responses.

 

[C4Lukins]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

I think that is a reasonable safety concern.

 

[Apt101]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

They could be exercising caution due to logistics. Like, they'd obviously want to have some form of security and intelligence around such an event, and maybe they don't think they can provide it on such short notice with everything that just happened. In the US we have cops and the NSA and other law enforcement falling out the woodwork and I don't think we'd allow such an event following an attack of this nature either.

 

[diamount]

ISIS can claim they turn your milk sour, where is the proof they are involved?

 

[marc^o^]

What would it take to eradicate ISIS?

 

[Lutherian]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

State of Emergency prevent / forbid reunion / groups.

 

[llehuty]

What about the "Parisians everywhere are offering their homes to people who are stranded or who need a place to rest" and "Parisians are donating their blood en masse to help" messages?

It's true, but I feel like all France should be supporting Paris, and we should be showing that we are not scared.

 

[dc89]

What would it take to eradicate ISIS?

In short - A concentrated international effort.

 

[Macadinho94]

ISIS can claim they turn your milk sour, where is the proof they are involved?

Francois Hollande said it was ISIS as well, highly doubt he'd say that unless they were sure.

 

[BrainZEROX]

There was planned a demonstration today in Toulouse (Big city in the South of France) in memory of yesterday's attacks. But from the city hall they are prohibiting any kind of public movilization until Thursday.

Not sure that this "we are scared" should be the message they should be sending.

Such demonstrations would make a perfect target for a second wave attack. Especially now that suicide bombers are a thing in France.

 

[hohoXD123]

Did that story about the Calais refugee camp burning turn out to be fake in the end?

 

[NateDog]

I feel so awful being relieved that it's only 120 and not the 150 that I saw earlier. This fucking world man...

Hey I feel the same way. I went to bed yesterday when a few sources said 118 were dead in the Bataclan alone at that stage and we had reports of at least 40 elsewhere (although they did say 15 earlier in the night were confirmed dead from that theatre so perhaps that is it). I went to bed fully expecting to hear the count was at least 180-200. According to Sky it is at 138 at the moment though.

Sweet and great to see the influx of blood donors. Stay strong Paris.

 

[Xando]

What would it take to eradicate ISIS?

International ground troops. These fools cannot defend themselves against the kurds. What will they do again High Tech military

Also force the gulf states to stop financing terrorists to beat iran

 

[Sijil]

What would it take to eradicate ISIS?

Look, you can't wipe away ISIS with military means and keep supporting the source that breeds the types of ISIS politically and militarily. I'm talking about the KSA. The US managed to defeat AQ in Iraq, what changed? A new group took its place. Wipe away ISIS now but who's to say another stronger group won't take its place in the future? What about all the AQ splinter groups worldwide?

At the end of the day the source for their ideology is a US and Western ally that is receiving a ton of political shielding and military support, a country that has hundreds of satellite TV channels that airs the Wahabbi ideology, funds hundreds of international schools to spread said ideology and mums the word.

You want to end ISIS, start with the Wests allies, which is more difficult. Wiping ISIS away on the ground is a cakewalk in comparison.

International ground troops. These fools cannot defend themselves against the kurds. What will they do again High Tech military

Are the governments behind those troops willing to stay there for decades in order to make sure another ISIS doesn't sprout? Check Iraq and Afghanistan, military action without action on ISIS supporters will have short term effect.

 

[Apt101]

Did that story about the Calais refugee camp burning turn out to be fake in the end?

Official reports was that it was accidental.

 

[marc^o^]

In short - A concentrated international effort.

Let's do that.

 

[BaronLundi]

ParisGAF, if you guys need help with anything, I'm there, I actually live in the charonne street, so feel free to ask.

Glad you are ok!

I'm just realizing now that I had lunch right next to the Charonne/Faidherbe corner on thursday because there was no reservation yesterday night.

And now I have to somehow explain to my daughter why we won't go out this week-end.

 

[Nathan_Drake]

NOTE TO PARIS/FRANCE GAF

Most hospitals cannot deal with influx of blood donors right now (but check your local center to be sure). On the other hand they will need a lot of blood donations during the coming week in order to restock.

At the airport in Madison Wisconsin right now. When I checked in at the gate at 4:45am their was a man weighing in boxes of Red Cross boxes labeled human blood and platelets. I saw they had Delta Dash stickers on them. I asked where they were going and he said France there were at least 5 large boxes. It's nice to see things like that. *be warned it may contain high concentrations of nationalism or diabetes! (But honestly we are with you our oldest ally and friend as always)

 

[Lev]

What would it take to eradicate ISIS?

Figure out who is actually funding them. Then freeze and seize their assets, and send them to jail for financing terrorism. If these groups don't have money they really can't effectively operate, IMO.

 

[Joni]

Did that story about the Calais refugee camp burning turn out to be fake in the end?

No, it is just an unfortunate accident. Which is not that strange or uncommon for camps like that.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Did that story about the Calais refugee camp burning turn out to be fake in the end?

Real, but has been confirmed by a sub-prefect as an accident, likely relating to candles or a stove.

 

[llehuty]

Such demonstrations would make a perfect target for a second wave attack. Especially now that suicide bombers are a thing in France.

They made attacks in a restaurant, a concert hall, etc. while a high security plan that has been going on for almost a year. I'm worried of where are we going to move from here, getting fear inside of peoples mind is probably not a good idea.

I know there is a risk with aglommerations of people, but I don't think fear is the right answer (heck, even Hollande went to to Bataclan yesterday instead of going home).

 

[Joni]

Look at it through the eyes of law enforcement. They must be stretched thin at the moment, with almost all reserves going to Paris.

 

[dabig2]

In short - A concentrated international effort.

I remember hearing this in '02. Results were and still are not pretty.

 

[BaronLundi]

At the airport in Madison Wisconsin right now. When I checked in at the gate at 4:45am their was a man weighing in boxes of Red Cross boxes labeled human blood and platelets. I saw they had Delta Dash stickers on them. I asked where they were going and he said France there were at least 5 large boxes. It's nice to see things like that. *be warned it may contain high concentrations of nationalism or diabetes! (But honestly we are with you our oldest ally and friend as always)

It is nice to see indeed! Cheers and thanks to all for the thoughts and support.

 

[Palette Swap]

Damn, a cousin had a friend at Bataclan. These 2-3 degrees of separation are going to hit hard on Monday at work.

NOTE TO PARIS/FRANCE GAF

Most hospitals cannot deal with influx of blood donors right now (but check your local center to be sure). On the other hand they will need a lot of blood donations during the coming week in order to restock.

I'd gladly donate but a blood transfusion in the eighties and too much time spent in Britain in the nineties exclude me every time. It's time they updated these archaic rules (or I started lying I guess).

(But honestly we are with you our oldest ally and friend as always)

<3

 

[llehuty]

Look at it through the eyes of law enforcement. They must be stretched thin at the moment, with almost all reserves going to Paris.

Good point.

 

[Tugatrix]

Figure out who is actually funding them. Then freeze and seize their assets, and send them to jail for financing terrorism. If these groups don't have money they really can't effectively operate, IMO.

They know how this kind of groups are funded but that mean confronting the Saudis with their activities