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Paris Terrorist Attacks, 120+ dead. Do not post hearsay/unsourced/old news.

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Zabant

Zabant

Member
It seems a lot of people in here are confused about the term 'Moderate Muslim'.

This video from a gathering of self-described Moderate Muslims living in the UK should help.

Nearly the entirety of the crowd agrees that sharia law is correct and that homosexuals should be killed, you should be stoned for adultery and executing anyone who tries to leave Islam is a 'moderate' stance.

The only thing that does not make them 'extremists' is that they wont do these things because it's against the 'law of the land' (british law). They still believe that all the things mentioned above 'should' be done as it's god's law as mentioned in the Qur'an.
 
O

operon

Member
Oersted said:
Western folks demanding dictatorships for the Middle East, so they can be "safe". Jeez.
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Nobody is demanding this. Posters are saying the west went into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya with no plan other than regime change and the get the fuck out leaving their populations to pick up the pieces. Getting rid of those dictators was a good idea but you have to be prepared to stay for the long term help form stable governments
 
B

brian!

Member
Merino said:
Honestly old pictures they are not. Really twitter is flooding with different new materials. It can't be a hoax with reliable sources reporting.

I feel people are scared of this, even if it turns out to be an unrelated accident.

here more different video sources:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/CalaisMigrantSolidarityActionFromUK/permalink/940357619372319/

https://twitter.com/CazTravels/status/665335106979110912
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yes multiple ppl on the ground there are reporting this to be the case, ppl should absolutely not assume a connection (i really really hope there isn't one)
 
N

nib95

Banned
King_Moc said:
Oh, he's not gonna do anything. He's nothing like the violent type and he's literally just married and had a kid. He doesn't even seem to know much about ISIS, it's just a generic anti-west thing he's being fed. It just worries me to see that happening as it means it can happen anywhere.
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Right now it's a really difficult situation all around, for those ordinary citizens indirectly affected by these sorts of atrocities, mentally and physically, and Muslims in the West too, many of whom are stuck in some weird void where hatred and discrimination is at every corner, but people in the name of their religion are adding fuel to the fire. Then there's the antics of the West that dirty things even more, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Palestine etc, making things even more confusing.

This guy you speak of probably has no idea who or what to trust any more, and as a result is more malleable.
 
M

marrec

Banned
Zabant said:
It seems a lot of people in here are confused about the term 'Moderate Muslim'.

This video from a gathering of self-described Moderate Muslims living in the UK should help.

Nearly the entirety of the crowd agrees that sharia law is correct and that homosexuals should be killed, you should be stoned for adultery and executing anyone who tries to leave Islam is a 'moderate' stance.

The only thing that does not make them 'extremists' is that they wont do these things because it's against the 'law of the land' (british law). They still believe that all the things mentioned above 'should' be done as it's god's law as mentioned in the Qur'an.
Click to expand...

No need to spread your bigotry tonight.
 
S

samn

Member
SomTervo said:
That's true, but that was nothing to do with Assad himself and what he was doing to his own people. In my understanding, we're talking about two separate issues here. However, standing with Assad against ISIS is hugely important. And I never intended to shame you or put words in your mouth, but the phrase 'under his rule, Syria was a relatively safe, stable country' sounded a lot like you were ignoring when he chemical-bombed his own people. Feel free to re-inform me on this – it sounds like you know your stuff.

How is the question ridiculous? A hypothetical: it transpires that armed forces are crossing the border nearest to you to invade your country (this is not what's happening now obviously). What do you do? Cautious and careful thought, or active reaction?

That's my point - I feel like the whole ISIS situation is quickly escalating towards that. I might be totally wrong in this analysis - anyone feel free to correct me on it.
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The important word is relatively, as in, relative to now.

You yourself said the question was ridiculous. I don't think the situation is escalating towards that. Awful as they are, all terrorist attacks need to be put into perspective. We cannot kneejerk towards calling for changes to foreign policy (or domestic policy) the day after an attack until we have some perspective.
 
Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
seems to me the momentum of bad guys out of syria and iraq is coming to a head, unfortunately

this shit has totally metastasized
 
Starfield

Starfield

Member
operon said:
Nobody is demanding this. Posters are saying the west went into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya with no plan other than regime change and the get the fuck out leaving their populations to pick up the pieces. Getting rid of those dictators was a good idea but you have to be prepared to stay for the long term help form stable governments
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Indeed. Because after that we saw what chaos had been created.
 
P

Pacbois

Member
finally had the guts to check the news. just saw that attacks happened where i was walking to a safe place minutes ago, worst feeling ever
 
O

Oersted

Member
operon said:
Nobody is demanding this. Posters are saying the west went into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya with no plan other than regime change and the get the fuck out leaving their populations to pick up the pieces. Getting rid of those dictators was a good idea but you have to be prepared to stay for the long term help form stable governments
Click to expand...

There was demand. But lets stop it here.
 
L

Linkyn

Member
SteveO409 said:
One world trade center now in NY

CTu_DpDUkAAmP8u.jpg
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This entire evening has been very emotional for me, but the symbolism in this single act of solidarity just pushed me over the edge.
 
S

SomTervo

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
My point is what's your long term plan? You go into Syria and you retake some land and "kick ass" to satiate the reactive bloodlust like we did in Afghanistan and Iraq. Then what? You have to permanently occupy the land and engage in nation building which takes years. Meanwhile, your enemies go underground for a while or relocate and become something else. Al Qaeda was replaced with IS and AQ in the Arabian Peninsula. Some group will just take their place. What happens with Assad and his regime?

They're also still radicalizing people all over the world and carrying out attacks wherever they can.
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Wise words on the whole. Although I think the comparison to Iraq is facetious. We know Assad was doing bad shit to his own people. But you're right that just firing off at him then standing back and watching the fallout is worse than doing nothing. And getting overly involved to re-establish power is the worst possible thing. Colonialism never works. I'm not stupid!

Also I have no interest in 'kicking ass'. I'm not an American. I'm a left-wing Brit socialist.

I suppose my argument for intervention makes more sense in the ISIS case than the Assad case. I also think you're way off the mark comparing al-Qaeda and ISIS. al-Q were far smaller and more nebulous - they never had this much actual land, never had this much money or organisation, and never had a conscription drive like ISIS do. They're a totally different ballgame. However, you're right that they were likely a fallout of the Afghanistan war, and more action on our part could lead to another spun-out generation of terrorism.

samn said:
The important word is relatively, as in, relative to now.

You yourself said the question was ridiculous. I don't think the situation is escalating towards that. Awful as they are, all terrorist attacks need to be put into perspective. We cannot kneejerk towards calling for changes to foreign policy (or domestic policy) the day after an attack until we have some perspective.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right. I hope it doesn't amount to much. I'm scared by ISIS's resources and numbers, though. The UK's Channel 4 reported them as unprecedented - apparently an extremist group has never had this much money or this many numbers in human history.

And I did say that, well spotted - it was to introduce a philosophical conversation, though. A 'what if' so that you could understand my point. You have to entertain that sort of thing in a discussion like this. I think you've resolved the idea, though.
 
S

superdeluxe

Member
Cybit said:
Well, if it is ISIS - it is interesting to see if NATO invokes Article 5. ISIS declares the area it occupies to be a sovereign country. NATO could take them at face value and that would then invoke Article 5...which would mean a full scale war.

<hugs to anyone affected>, and godspeed on your recovery Paris.
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Problem is there is no sovereign country to attack.
 
K

KAP151

Member
This has NOTHING to do with gun control. Shut the fuck up.

Zero respects shown to the hundred plus people that were just killed.
 
K

Konka

Banned
RPGCrazied said:
Doesn't matter the date, it still came from his mouth after a tragedy.
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Okay, but his tweet tonight was.

Donald J. Trump &#8207;@realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago
My prayers are with the victims and hostages in the horrible Paris attacks. May God be with you all.
 
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