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Penny-Arcade: "Marketers of the Avenger Controller are thieves and liars".
- Thread starter SpeedingUptoStop
- Start date
If someone had hacked his twitter they would have done worse.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I'm not sure how. That guy is his own worst enemy.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
I don't think his asshole nature in intentional, but more to do with a tough childhood, rough home life, experience with the consequences of drugs, etc. He's quite introvert and socially awkward, and clearly carries a lot mental scars with him to this day.
Calling him a bully is out of line. Rather, I'd peg it down to a lack of social awareness and a complete lack of empathy.
Buddha Beam
Banned
Seriously. This has got to be one of my biggest fears, as improbable as it is.
Haunted
Member
ProfessorMoran
Member
I hope this thing doesn't end up going too far, you don't want to ridicule someone to the point where he goes psycho and resort to violence, it's like guys talking shit and bumping chests at a party and next thing you know someone is getting shot dead. Everybody wants to be an internet badass, but the PA guys aren't anonymous internet dudes anymore, they need to realize that.
Serious?
Because a shitty businessman deserves to have his family ruined. Right?
This is a moment where I'm ashamed to be part of the Internet. Fuck everyone that is cool with family getting involved. Scumbags.
I really don't understand the gabe hate.
Ok, yes, did he act all passive aggressive when he posted the transcript of the conversations? Yes. Did he post that transcript knowing full well what would transpire as a result? Again, yes. But so what? What should he have done? Would it have been better to just simply boot the douche from PAX and ignore Dave's situation? Would it have been better if this guy had NOT been shit canned? Better for who? I do feel sympathy for Paul's family, but it's because of Paul's mistakes that they're suffering. I don't see how Gabe did the wrong thing when the alternative was doing more or less nothing and letting the douche continue abusing customers.
Consider the fact that Gabe emailed the entire transcript and his reaction to Paul before posting it on PA. That was Paul's chance to redeem himself. Gabe didn't take what dave had to say at face value, he gave Paul a chance to speak up. Was it an example of baiting? Sure. Could he have been a bit clearer and less douchey? Absolutely. But it still says a lot to me that Gabe didn't rush off to sick his dogs on the guy immediately after being contacted by dave. Who knows how things would have worked out if Paul had been civil to Gabe. But he wasn't. He made both veiled and overt threats and flung insults. It was then and only then that Gabe felt dave's story was worth releasing to the internet. Through what other outlet could such a chain of events have been initiated? Had dave sent the transcript to IGN or kotaku or wherever, it's unlikely they would have run the story. Gabe did, with purposeful malice, and I really don't see how he was in the wrong.
Gabe, by his own admission, is not the most well adjusted guy in the world. Still, I've been a PA reader for the past 10 years (WOO HOO all credibility lost!) and I've always felt like both Mike and Jerry were pretty decent people. Misguided from time to time, but hell who isn't. You could say that about just about anybody.
I will say this though - over the years, it's become readily apparent that PA is not a company you fuck with. Those guys have never given a shit if their empire falls. If they feel they're representing something "right," they will not back down, and they have enough sway in the industry to make shit happen. They're among the most powerful people in the video game industry, but very rarely do they use that power like Gabe did yesterday.
Ok, yes, did he act all passive aggressive when he posted the transcript of the conversations? Yes. Did he post that transcript knowing full well what would transpire as a result? Again, yes. But so what? What should he have done? Would it have been better to just simply boot the douche from PAX and ignore Dave's situation? Would it have been better if this guy had NOT been shit canned? Better for who? I do feel sympathy for Paul's family, but it's because of Paul's mistakes that they're suffering. I don't see how Gabe did the wrong thing when the alternative was doing more or less nothing and letting the douche continue abusing customers.
Consider the fact that Gabe emailed the entire transcript and his reaction to Paul before posting it on PA. That was Paul's chance to redeem himself. Gabe didn't take what dave had to say at face value, he gave Paul a chance to speak up. Was it an example of baiting? Sure. Could he have been a bit clearer and less douchey? Absolutely. But it still says a lot to me that Gabe didn't rush off to sick his dogs on the guy immediately after being contacted by dave. Who knows how things would have worked out if Paul had been civil to Gabe. But he wasn't. He made both veiled and overt threats and flung insults. It was then and only then that Gabe felt dave's story was worth releasing to the internet. Through what other outlet could such a chain of events have been initiated? Had dave sent the transcript to IGN or kotaku or wherever, it's unlikely they would have run the story. Gabe did, with purposeful malice, and I really don't see how he was in the wrong.
Gabe, by his own admission, is not the most well adjusted guy in the world. Still, I've been a PA reader for the past 10 years (WOO HOO all credibility lost!) and I've always felt like both Mike and Jerry were pretty decent people. Misguided from time to time, but hell who isn't. You could say that about just about anybody.
I will say this though - over the years, it's become readily apparent that PA is not a company you fuck with. Those guys have never given a shit if their empire falls. If they feel they're representing something "right," they will not back down, and they have enough sway in the industry to make shit happen. They're among the most powerful people in the video game industry, but very rarely do they use that power like Gabe did yesterday.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Why is this line of empathy/rationale/understanding only being applied towards Gabe, though? Like I said earlier in the thread, I have a lot of respect for the PA dudes, but I feel like this was out of line for them. I don't understand how people can have empathy for one self-admitted bully/asshole/human being but not for another.
I think Paul acted like a complete dick (and clearly has some issues), but I feel like the overall response has been over-the-top and frankly, a little sad. I just want, like, kum-bay-yas and shit, man.
faceless007
Member
I'd be amused at the head explosions that would result if it turned out these things were also true of Paul.
...So sociopath is better?
This makes no goddamn sense. So if I have a family, I'm allowed to be a complete douche, publicly misrepresent myself and others, and openly threaten people within the industry that I work in? I should be able to lie to customers without any repercussions because I have a family? Nobody got the rest of the family involved but Paul. I do think that attacking and harassing his private life should be avoided at all costs, but Paul should have been the one looking out for his family and his own private life to begin with.
If the asshole goes apeshit and murders his family and commits suicide, do you know who is going to be to blame? Paul Christoforo.
Not saying Paul was perfect but damn if you don't think the Internet is at fault for involving the family. Like putting the blame of rape on the victim.
The PA dudes KNEW this would happen. Sure, ban him from PAX. Sure, post an email or two with NO personal info and complain to the company heads but this is bullshit.
I'm not empathizing with Gabe, I'm saying he's not perfect and that there are definitely ways he could have handled things a bit better. But ultimately I'm willing to overlook some of his faults because 1. He seems to be an all around decent person, though admittedly with some social problems, 2. I don't find his faults overfly offensive (though I could understand it being annoying), and most importantly 3. He recognizes his own mental problems and has actively worked towards becoming better adjusted for years.
faceless007
Member
Are you seriously fucking equating my critique of Gabe's style with everything that the Internet rage machine has done to Paul? Really? Only to then acknowledge the very obvious thing that makes them not the same at all? I don't see how I'm "raging at" anything, certainly not compared to the shitstorm of this thread. And LOL at "it's how life works," that's not an argument.
ProfessorMoran
Member
Call me cynical but I'm beginning to suspect that this whole thing is a staged marketing stunt.
This entire event just makes me think of that big fight scene in the movie anchorman which ends with Ron saying "boy that escalated quickly".
A few of my real life friends think gabe should have at least put something on penny arcade that they don't condone threats towards people to at least distance themselves from this fiasco a bit. I mean it wasn't long ago gabes own family was getting threatening e-mails and such for the whole dickwolves thing. Now the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly it's a-ok to be an ass because he's not the victim this time.
It's nerd power fantasy fulfilment at it's best. Sure the initial e-mails paint the sales rep as a total asshole, and sure it escalated to even bigger levels of ass-hatery not long afterwards. The guy probably had some rants coming aimed at him. But it's 2011, Mike and Jerry are both men in the 30's . High school was over a decade ago for both them, they are successful businessmen with families and employees that depend on them to do their jobs. These are people who know how big their fanbase is and Mike should really have known what was goign to happen to the poor sap as soon as his e-mail was spread around. This is the same fanbase afterall that largely agreed it was ok to make fun of rape victims because they didn't get a joke.
I suppose I'm just a bit disappointed in Mike in the end. All the power and money he has but he didn't take the high road. Still would have painted the sales rep as a huge asshole and would make Mike look like the grown up that he claims to be. Instead he seems like the 15 year old who'd been teased to the point of showing up at school with a loaded firearm and he's asked a million other nerds to pull the trigger but he aimed the gun.
A few of my real life friends think gabe should have at least put something on penny arcade that they don't condone threats towards people to at least distance themselves from this fiasco a bit. I mean it wasn't long ago gabes own family was getting threatening e-mails and such for the whole dickwolves thing. Now the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly it's a-ok to be an ass because he's not the victim this time.
It's nerd power fantasy fulfilment at it's best. Sure the initial e-mails paint the sales rep as a total asshole, and sure it escalated to even bigger levels of ass-hatery not long afterwards. The guy probably had some rants coming aimed at him. But it's 2011, Mike and Jerry are both men in the 30's . High school was over a decade ago for both them, they are successful businessmen with families and employees that depend on them to do their jobs. These are people who know how big their fanbase is and Mike should really have known what was goign to happen to the poor sap as soon as his e-mail was spread around. This is the same fanbase afterall that largely agreed it was ok to make fun of rape victims because they didn't get a joke.
I suppose I'm just a bit disappointed in Mike in the end. All the power and money he has but he didn't take the high road. Still would have painted the sales rep as a huge asshole and would make Mike look like the grown up that he claims to be. Instead he seems like the 15 year old who'd been teased to the point of showing up at school with a loaded firearm and he's asked a million other nerds to pull the trigger but he aimed the gun.
Crossed my mind also but you can't plan this shit... just consider how many turns it could have taken... And this was about the best outcome...
faceless007
Member
It's always odd to me how the Internet Justice machine is so quick to throw out straw men and make up bullshit false equivalencies. As far as I can tell, not a single person in this thread is arguing that Paul should be "allowed" to continue working as he did. Literally no one is defending his actions. What people are also saying is that bringing his family into it is taking it too far. Are you so blinded by vicarious rage that you can't see any middle ground between wanting Paul to suffer the consequences of his actions and wanting his entire family to suffer the consequences? The bloodlust of you guys is seriously galling. So if you ever make any fuck-ups in your life at all, I'm sure you're OK with your wife having to suffer equally at the hands of an unruly mob, right? Anything you deserve, she deserves too, right?
reptilescorpio
Member
You do realise that Penny Arcade was one of SEVERAL places that the emails were sent to? It says so right in the post. They also emailed Paul several times privately before they got the shits with him, especially after he was saying that he had contacts at PAX. They also didn't disclose any personal information that wasn't already available.
Well I agree with you about that (mostly). The reality is though that had personal info been omitted, internet hounds would have uncovered it rather quickly. There's also no guarantee that contacting the parent company would have had any effect. Evidence points to similar incidents occurring in the past with no consequences. But that's all after the fact. Who knows, maybe Paul would have been fired behind the scenes had PA had more tact and just contacted his employer.
I think the rest of the family is innocent in this situation, but if anyone is at fault it's Paul. It's unfortunate that his actions led to their suffering, but I put the blame squarely on HIS actions. Gabe knew posting that transcript would result in all hell breaking loose, and there were probably better ways of going about mediating the dispute, but I don't think not posting the transcript would have necessarily been better. Signs point to the outcome most likely being worse, meaning the situation would have been ultimately ignored by Paul's employer. Still, I agree that Gabe should have contacted them first.
Amibguous Cad
Member
Everything that's good about their organization comes from Tycho, I'm pretty sure
You can tell throughout all these dustups he's like "Don't fuck this up, troglodyte"
ALL bullies result from a lack of social awareness and a lack of empathy. Gabe isn't different from the guys who pantsed you in 6th grade aside from the fact that he has a geeky website
reptilescorpio
Member
The rest of the family is DEFINITELY innocent in the situation. 100%
Paul is the dick, Paul is the one who has treated people like shit for the last year.
Also there are other stories posted in this thread of people over the last year having bad experiences and nothing had been done until this one guy sent the emails to Reddit, Kotaku and Penny Arcade.
lol, arguing a straw man with a straw man. No, my wife would not deserve to suffer for my actions, but if she did, I would be the one at fault for causing such actions to transpire. I've said repeatedly that involving the family is definitely taking things too far, but the fact that that's happening is ultimately Paul's fault. I'd like to blame the "internet" for going too far, sure, but the internet has no uniform consciousness, so that's much more difficult to do.
I don't think anyone's using it right now, lol
Frankenstrat
Member
It was designed for use by handicapped gamers who would have had problems pressing the buttons hard enough. I'm not sure who thought of the idea of marketing this towards the CoD crowd, but it wasn't a very good one.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
How anyone could be all white knight about this guy losing his job is beyond me. You should get fired and never be able to set a foot in PR for way less things.
I'm usually defending almost anything, but this? No, Ma'am! He got exactly what he deserved. He could easily had written up a sincere apology right after the whole thing started, and nobody would have cared by now. Instead he goes mental, using the dickish methods available, from pretending to be a huge deal in industry, to lying about associates and supporters, to straight-up insulting and laughing about other people and trying to make a buck with all of this.
Really, don't defend this guy. He deserved everything what's coming for him.
I'm usually defending almost anything, but this? No, Ma'am! He got exactly what he deserved. He could easily had written up a sincere apology right after the whole thing started, and nobody would have cared by now. Instead he goes mental, using the dickish methods available, from pretending to be a huge deal in industry, to lying about associates and supporters, to straight-up insulting and laughing about other people and trying to make a buck with all of this.
Really, don't defend this guy. He deserved everything what's coming for him.
Garcia el Gringo
Member
One bully was using his power to mock customers who lost money, while lying, cheating and stealing his way through life. He was power tripping and people had to deal with it for a long time. The other "bully" was using his power to put him on blast to protect those being abused and to prevent it from happening to the gaming community in the future. Paul needed to be outed as the crook he is. He didn't deserve a less harsh outing than what Gabe posted.
They're would probably be less messy ways of approaching this and getting him fired, but Paul didn't deserve it. He threatened Penny Arcade, and Penny Arcade swung back. Who cares if he's been embarrassed?! Paul has been harassing people for too long. Sometimes people need to be embarrassed to finally learn a lesson.
We should be thanking PA for getting this guy out of the gaming industry.
XANDER CAGE
Member
See, this is what I don't get. The guy "threatened" Penny Arcade with about the same malice and credibility as say, me walking up to a Ninja Turtle and telling him I can totally kick his ass.
I don't think that posting and mocking the initial email exchange was wrong of Gabe, I just think the extended drubbing beyond the initial post and the overall internet response (if the ID theft/family harassment is to be believed) is a bit saddening. It's not like the ego-inflated jerk could actually do anything to Penny Arcade. Just walk away from stupid fights like that, I dunno.
ScientificNinja
Member
Generally speaking, it was kind of a dick move for Mike to engage with Paul by weighing in and cancelling his PAX East stall. Then again, he's well within his rights as he was brought into the discussion and he felt he needed to stand up for the little guy.
What many of you probably don't realise is that, behind closed doors, game companies are saying that Paul did his job, that now everyone knows the Avenger control pad because Dave WANTED the pad in spite of the abuse he took from Paul. Yes, they are quietly high-fiving this guy. And while they acknowledge the customer service was poor, they make absolutely no apology for the inflated sense of entitlement they have whenever they hand out free review/sample products to the media. I was privy to one such discussion today between a pair of marketing execs who have no idea their FB posts are public.
In any case, my point is simply that the Paul will still have a career; it'll just be out of the public eye. He isn't the first guy on earth to lose his shit during Christmas while managing a newborn baby; he's not worth shedding any tears for.
What many of you probably don't realise is that, behind closed doors, game companies are saying that Paul did his job, that now everyone knows the Avenger control pad because Dave WANTED the pad in spite of the abuse he took from Paul. Yes, they are quietly high-fiving this guy. And while they acknowledge the customer service was poor, they make absolutely no apology for the inflated sense of entitlement they have whenever they hand out free review/sample products to the media. I was privy to one such discussion today between a pair of marketing execs who have no idea their FB posts are public.
In any case, my point is simply that the Paul will still have a career; it'll just be out of the public eye. He isn't the first guy on earth to lose his shit during Christmas while managing a newborn baby; he's not worth shedding any tears for.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm Bobby Kotick!
Garcia el Gringo
Member
I feel bad for the family, but I don't feel bad for Paul at all. Once you're a family man every single one of your actions affects your family. If you're going to be a crook, you can't expect people to go easy on you just cause you mention that you have kids. You're the one hurting your own family by trying to get by life that way. You can't really blame PA or Reddit (or whoever it is) for the shitstorm. Paul was the one who decided to be a crook.
If you go threaten a Ninja Turtle, don't go expecting him not to kick your ass because he knows it's an unfair fight. Especially if that Ninja Turtle just saw you bullying and pulling the same shit on some innocent person who didn't have the advantage of being a Ninja Turtle.
Gabe wasn't just protecting Penny Arcade, he was protecting the gaming industry from this crook.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Again: what legitimate threat did this guy pose to Penny Arcade? If he was a miserable, ego-inflated rat already humiliated by the the initial internet shaming, what was Gabe possibly defending PA from?
A useless pieces of plastic and rubber?
XANDER CAGE
Member
But dude, Adam Sessler likes it!
elrechazado
Banned
How was his family ruined?
Also, good to see jiantrobot the "I'm not defending him" defense force still out in play ...
If 4chan got hold of his family's info (they CAN do that and they do it pretty fast at that), I don't have a hard time to believe the guy's family got a taste of it, too.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
And how was anyone happy about that?
elrechazado
Banned
The internet did nothing to his family. The confirmed liar who is now supposedly a victim has claimed they were harassed. We should of course believe him, because he's a confirmed liar looking for sympathy, and because PA posted his business 1-800 number.