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People seem to forget that the Pro is premium product

Gaiff

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
winjer said:
Your definition of premium is rather lacking.
Might I remind you that this console is still using the old Zen2 CPU, with cutdown cache and FP unit.
It's using a 256bit bus with no infinity cache. It's memory is only 28% faster than the base console.
It has only 16TFLOPs + VOPD.
Has no disk drive included. And even the stand is sold separately.
Click to expand...
Only significant upgrades are the storage and GPU. They are not worth $300 over the Slim DE model.
 
Draugoth

Draugoth

Gold Member
finalflame said:
It should if people will buy it.

This is really a matter of the haves and the have nots. You know which one you are if you’re complaining about $700.
Click to expand...

Astray said:
This is what people write in forums.

But we also know that these products sell out as soon as they land on shelves.
Click to expand...


It's sad because you guys are not wrong. Sony is testing the market to see if enough idiots will buy consoles at ridiculous price tags.

Whomever gamers are not dumb. The reaction tells me this console will sell very poorly like the PSVR2.
 
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Astray

Astray

Member
Draugoth said:
It's sad because you guys are not wrong. Sony is testing the market to see if enough idiots will buy consoles at ridiculous price tags.

Whomever gamers are not dumb. The reaction tells me this console will sell very poorly like the PSVR2.
Click to expand...
No one tests a market with a $700 device launch. They are doing it because they have what is essentially a reasonable hunch that the product will sell.

They may land on their face (very doubtful imo), but they will just reduce production on it and adjust accordingly.

This device is meant to improve margin not volume.
 
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saintjules

saintjules

Gold Member
HeisenbergFX4 said:
This is the problem they need to show people what it can really do and not having to sit 12" away from an 80" TV to see those differences.

After talking to some last night that is coming
Click to expand...

Do you think in your opinion, if they had a dedicated showcase to show off the power of the Console properly by showing detailed differences in games before the price reveal, that the price tag would then be okay for those 'concerned'? Or at least easier to swallow?

I think people would still be worried, but these are also the same people who said we don't need a Pro. In reality they wanted it until they saw the pricing. Just wait until Scalpers get a hold of them.
 
Hrk69

Hrk69

Member
Dj Khaled Fabric GIF by Recording Academy / GRAMMYs
 
Bojanglez

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
TintoConCasera said:
I don't think you can separate the product from it's price, but you do you, I don't care.

They are asking 800€ + stand + disc drive and haven't even shown what this thing is capable of outside of a very few exclusive titles that already ran perfectly fine on the base model, instead of showing what players could be interested in which is the games that are already struggling on the base model, like FF XVI, Wukong or Space Marine 2.

PSSR might end up being the best thing ever, who knows, but as of right now this thing to me is an overpriced product.

If you want to label it as "premium", ok go ahead, but imo you are doing that because of the price alone.
Click to expand...
I don't separate the product from the price. They have shown enough (for me) that it will run better than my existing PS5, that is all I personally need to know. I totally agree that other people will have their own value scale and are right to ask questions, wait until they have further information or wait until there is a price reduction.
 
saintjules

saintjules

Gold Member
Draugoth said:
It's sad because you guys are not wrong. Sony is testing the market to see if enough idiots will buy consoles at ridiculous price tags.

Whomever gamers are not dumb. The reaction tells me this console will sell very poorly like the PSVR2.
Click to expand...

If you had the money you wouldn't be dumb or saying that comment lol. Someone who can't put food on their table trying to buy one is dumb. I work for a living and have a secure job. I see something I want and can afford, I'll buy it. What's dumb about it?

I wish Bloodborne Remaster was revealed here and showcased under the Pro. It would have silenced half of the complainers.

Remember, the Apple Vision Pro at $3499 is out there.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
saintjules said:
Do you think in your opinion, if they had a dedicated showcase to show off the power of the Console properly by showing detailed differences in games before the price reveal, that the price tag would then be okay for those 'concerned'? Or at least easier to swallow?

I think people would still be worried, but these are also the same people who said we don't need a Pro. In reality they wanted it until they saw the pricing. Just wait until Scalpers get a hold of them.
Click to expand...
I think its going to be hard to show people a major difference in a showcase which makes the price tag that much worse

I think this machine is going to flop at the register

Now give me a show with DS2, Ghost of Tsushima 2 and reveal one or two new games thats coming and show people real differences

saintjules said:
If you had the money you wouldn't be dumb or saying that comment lol. Someone who can't put food on their table trying to buy one is dumb. I work for a living and have a secure job. I see something I want and can afford, I'll buy it. What's dumb about it?

Remember, the Apple Vision Pro at $3499 is out there.
Click to expand...
Yeah I wish people wouldn't call others dumb or the likes just because others can afford this product and are willing to pay for it
 
ChorizoPicozo

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
HeisenbergFX4 said:
This is the problem they need to show people what it can really do and not having to sit 12" away from an 80" TV to see those differences.

After talking to some last night that is coming
Click to expand...
The internet reception has been overwhelmingly negative. To me, it's not a technical issue but more about perception. (It's not like the base PS5 is going to turn into a Series S.)

They just need to show 2-4 new AAA games (preferably new IPs) with long, uninterrupted gameplay... that's it.

at this point, I highly doubt Sony has something similar to 2016 E3.

GaaS really fucked them this hard? or is just that their games are taking this long?.... if so, they better blow minds.
 
lifa-cobex

lifa-cobex

Member
Define the word Premium?
It means that the product is superior to it's predecessor and also costs more.

Not shit Sherlock.

It's absolutely meaningless.

The implied worth is not a good representation to it's actual value.
If you feel the price tag is correct to the product then go ahead. But a great deal of people can see the value of the previous product and weigh it up to the new one.
It's absolutely not a good balance.
 
Shake Your Rump

Shake Your Rump

Gold Member
Buggy Loop said:
not include a plastic vertical stand?
Click to expand...
The weird thing to me is that the original PS5 includes a horizontal stand that converts to a vertical stand. I switched to vertical after three years and was surprised at how solid it is. Why didn't Sony just continue this method?
 
Eszti

Eszti

Banned
Stupid OP Post.

So let me get this straight because defending this one must be an absolute fanboy or simply just stupid. nothing in the pro is justifies the price, nothing.

A premium product that has no disc droive and stand especially with such a high price? or at least 12 months pl plus or anything for that matter? a premium product that is only 45% faster then the regular model that you can buy here for 400€ often even for 350€ NEW. there is nothing premium about the pro. good the 2 TB ssd is expensive it is really fast such an ssd cost easily 80€ per TB on Pc too and pssr but thats it.

and no i go for the detah blow i said this already ten time and i dont give a fuck about inflation because sonys marge on the pro is so high it would make even nvidia blush.

the fucking ps4 pro gave you over 100% more gpu power for the fucking same price. and now you say this piece of shit that is only45% faster is worth doubling the price because here it is double of the ps 4 pro and it has no freaking disc drive.

 
keefged4

keefged4

Member
Crispy Gamer said:
As a non PC gamer I'm excited to see PSSR 4k @60 on my OLED I can see people who own a PC and PS5 not being excited but this product wasn't meant for every playstation consumer but it does suck for people who actually want it but feel priced out.
Click to expand...
in the realm of £700/$700 though, why not spend the extra and upgrade entierly to a PC? You will have a better, less restrictive experience than sticking with the PS Ecosystem. Plus you get access to upscaling technology that is more mature and infinite "backwards compatability". Could be a good entry point for a lot of customers this.
 
Mr.Phoenix

Mr.Phoenix

Member
sncvsrtoip said:
with zen2 cpu and 256 bit memory interface its not
Click to expand...
I am sure you are trying to be witty... but this isn't really a smart thing to say.

It has Zen2 because it doesn't need to have anything better for what its trying to accomplish. And for the majority of games released on the platform, that Zen2 will be enough to do what it has set out to do.

You say 256bit as if that's some sort of slight... when what's more important is the speed of the RAM attached to that BUS. 7700XT (192bit), 7800XT (256bit)...hell, 4070 super (192bit) and that's aa $600 GPU. And I believe you should know how bandwidth is used... and ask yourself if something that never targets above 120fps needs more than 576GB. Mind you, it has over 70GB/s more bandwidth than a 4070 Super... context is a bitch right?
SJRB said:
The price of the PS4 Pro was the same as the PS4 base launch price. And it came with a disc drive.
Click to expand...
And that was in 2016. This is 2024. Shit changes. And the fact the PS4pro came in at the same price as the OG PS4, makes it not a premium product. Unless of course people don't really know what it means to be a premium product.

For something to qualify to be a premium product, it has to be sold at a marked-up price higher than what it "should" cost. I believe Sony is not subsidizing the price of the PS5pro. I believe it cost them under $600 to make it. So selling it for more than that, being that they typically sell their consoles at a loss, is what makes it qualify as being a premium product. People seem to have this warped misconception that premium means giving me all the bells and whistles.

I get console gamers have "expectations"... but to me, this is a simple thing. This is what a console that is sold by Sony, without any subsidies and to make a profit on each box looks like. Its priced as a premium product, makes no sense to sell something like this at cost or at a loss if the asking price will be $600. The volume of sales doesn't justify that approach, especially when you consider you already have an entry-level product on the market.
Portugeezer said:
It's more worrying for the price of the PS6.
Click to expand...
This is true. If anything, I think the next 6-12 months... and how the PS5pro performs, will determine how much the PS6 costs. I hoe for all our sakes all this pushback here on GAF and online is NOT just the PS portal all over again.

If this thing can pull 10-15% of PSA5 sales going forward, we should all kiss the prospect of a $500 launch console goodbye.

Oh... I blame Nvidia for all this by the way. And scalpers. What you guys are asking is for Sony to potentially leave money on the table, why would they do that when Nvidia can sell GPOUs for over $1500, when scalpers have shown that people are willing to spend $800 on a console and when they have a $450 PS5 on the market too? If you think the PS5pro is too expensive, don't buy it, sony wouldn't care.

I doubt anyone is going to walk into a store with $500 to buy a PS5, and decide against buying a PS5 because they see a Ps5pro there for $700.
TintoConCasera said:
The way I see it, the only thing premium here is the price.
Click to expand...
That's literally what a premium product is.
 
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TintoConCasera

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Mr.Phoenix said:
That's literally what a premium product is.
Click to expand...
No it's not. A premium product must be the tits, much better than the non-premium counterpart and offer some cool stuff like goodies or a super nice packaging.

The PS5 Pro is expensive, sure, but it also comes with no disc drive, no stand and the only thing that's better is the GPU and by a margin of 45%. You won't convince me that a 5 year old CPU is premium.

Going to be honest here, I don't want to step into platform warring territory but all this "but it's a premium product!" babble sounds like cope to me.
 
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A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
HeisenbergFX4 said:
This is the problem they need to show people what it can really do and not having to sit 12" away from an 80" TV to see those differences.

After talking to some last night that is coming
Click to expand...
By that do you mean that'll try to show it or that the difference will be obvious?

Because to me, it is too expensive for the little that has been shown so far.

Edit: nevermind you kinda already answered above.
 
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sncvsrtoip

sncvsrtoip

Member
Mr.Phoenix said:
I am sure you are trying to be witty... but this isn't really a smart thing to say.

It has Zen2 because it doesn't need to have anything better for what its trying to accomplish. And for the majority of games released on the platform, that Zen2 will be enough to do what it has set out to do.

You say 256bit as if that's some sort of slight... when what's more important is the speed of the RAM attached to that BUS. 7700XT (192bit), 7800XT (256bit)...hell, 4070 super (192bit) and that's aa $600 GPU. And I believe you should know how bandwidth is used... and ask yourself if something that never targets above 120fps needs more than 576GB. Mind you, it has over 70GB/s more bandwidth than a 4070 Super... context is a bitch right?
Click to expand...
We already have titles like space marin 2 showing zen2 is not enough for stable 60fps (I know it probably could be better optimized but if you think in future games will be less demanding you are wrong). About 256bit being enough in desktop graphics, do ps5pro gpu has big caches like desktop gpus ? Nope so be smarter next time.
 
Shake Your Rump

Shake Your Rump

Gold Member
keefged4 said:
why not spend the extra and upgrade entierly to a PC? You will have a better, less restrictive experience
Click to expand...
Not with games being digital-only, you won't.

I tried changing to PC on 2021. I enjoyed the cheap old games at first, but when I wanted to buy new games at release, it was over $100 CAD for games that I can't lend or sell. Baldur's Gate 3 was the final nail in the coffin. I spent $100 on a game that I played for four hours and never want to touch again. I am stuck with it. It is in my Steam library to forever remind me to not buy digital. With a PS5 game, I can sell the disc and recover ~80% of my cost.
 
StueyDuck

StueyDuck

Member
Shtof said:
Console generations typically last 6-7 years.
As they go on, the processing power gap between the PCs and consoles grow larger and larger.
The likelihood of parts of the market jumping from console to PC grows each year as the console grows older.

A console maker can avoid this by creating a premium option.

It is thus clear that the PS5 Pro is not meant as a mass market product.
Rather, it is targeted at a small minority of console gamers that can afford to jump to the high-end PC market.

It is certainly more profitable to sell regular PS5's to everybody else.
Click to expand...
Turns out a premium product can be too expensive still.

It's not some get out of jail free card. Ferraris are premium but if they made a model designed for your average consumer but still cost Ferrari prices it would be too expensive.
 
Mr.Phoenix

Mr.Phoenix

Member
sncvsrtoip said:
We already have titles like space marin 2 showing zen2 is not enough for stable 60fps (I know it probably could be better optimized but if you think in future games will be less demanding you are wrong). About 256bit being enough in desktop graphics, do ps5pro gpu has big caches like desktop gpus ? Nope so be smarter next time.
Click to expand...
And there will be more. Thats not how majorities work.

The fact of the matter, and you are free to prove otherwise, is that zen2 is enough to have the majority of the games on the platform running at 60fps. There will always be exceptions, in which case people probably settle for 40fps, or who knows, PSSR is used to frame gen 40-50fps to get it to 60fps. There are creative ways around this that don't require packing in the absolute best hardware you can into the box. Unles of course you feel you know better than sony engineers.

The point is, at the end of the day, this is a console, not a high-end PC.

Please, use your eyes, this numbers game you are playing is pointless. The PS5proi will build on the PS5, that's is what is designed to do. Its not trying to be a 4090 alternative. And sony are asking you to pay a premium for the best console gaming experience on the market. If you don't like that... then simply don't buy it. Whats the issue there?
 
A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I don't think the differences will be mind blowing

I saw Killjoy-NL Killjoy-NL say value is subjective and that really holds true the higher the price on any product
Click to expand...
Welp I don't think I'll get it if the difference isn't staggering...Not a that pricepoint, but congrats to those that wants and can afford it.One of the things that may change my mind is if this model allowed me to play my ps3 games through emulation/backward compatibility, but I don't think it'll happen.
 
Mr.Phoenix

Mr.Phoenix

Member
TintoConCasera said:
No it's not. A premium product must be the tits, much better than the non-premium counterpart and offer some cool stuff like goodies or a super nice packaging.

The PS5 Pro is expensive, sure, but it also comes with no disc drive, no stand and the only thing that's better is the GPU and by a margin of 45%. You won't convince me that a 5 year old CPU is premium.
Click to expand...
Please stay consistent. You say a premium product must be much better than the non premium counterpart right? Ok.

Is the PS5pro...

Better than the PS5 digital SKU. Because that is the non-premium counterpart its based on since it comes without a disc drive. So it cost $250 more than the PS5 digital. So here is the question, is over 100GB/s more bandwidth, double the SSD size, better RT, AI acceleration hardware, 50%ish faster GPU, 10%ish faster CPU and a slight markup on top of all that.... not better than the non-premium counterpart?

A this is me just indulging your version of the word premium, that's not what it means to be premium though. Remember the PS4 anniversary limited edition console? Sold for more than the standard counterpart by $100. All it had were different faceplates. Thats what it means to be premium.

What the PS5pro is, simply put, is an upgrade over the standard console... sold at a premium price.
TintoConCasera said:
Going to be honest here, I don't want to step into platform warring territory but all this "but it's a premium product!" babble sounds like cope to me.
Click to expand...
An to me, the second people start resorting to calling people fanboys or throwing around cope when having an otherwise sound conversation, is what I think is being a fanboy and cope.

The PS5pro cost $700. That thing probably cost no more than $550-$600 to make. It literally doesn't get more premium than that. Or you want me to pull up the definition of premium for you?
 
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V

VolticArchangel

Member

People seem to forget that the Pro is premium product​

Click to expand...

It's got a 7700XT (instead of the non-XT 6700 in the base model), with the same fucking CPU from 2020, and a TB of extra same read/write spec SSD, and costs $700 for the package in 2024.

In your own words:

People seem to forget that the Pro is NOT a premium product​

Click to expand...

It's overpriced trash. Lay off the copium.
 
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sncvsrtoip

sncvsrtoip

Member
Mr.Phoenix said:
Please, use your eyes, this numbers game you are playing is pointless. The PS5proi will build on the PS5, that's is what is designed to do. Its not trying to be a 4090 alternative. And sony are asking you to pay a premium for the best console gaming experience on the market. If you don't like that... then simply don't buy it. Whats the issue there?
Click to expand...
I just saying its priced like pro product but clearly was build with minimalistic costs and at this price sony is pushing their fanbase into pc market.
 
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