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[nightmare-slain]

Deleted

 

[Davevil]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It’s easy to spot a stinking fanboy with stupid threads like this .. a cpu from the ice age is a premium product …

Even the fucking plastic of the console is a downgrade from the original ..

I don't think it takes a "fanboy" to be excited for this machine

I have said many times here I prefer the Xbox hardware and I can't wait to get this Pro in the house and see what it can do with my own eyes

 

[Three]

Same excuse Apple buyers and RTX 4090 buyers give. Just because a product is Premium doesnt mean it should be sold at that price tag.

Even RTX 4070 users are paying $550 just for a GPU upgrade and those aren't premium at all. This isn't really an Apple scenario where it's $1k for a stand. $700 for a complete system and its capabilities isn't that overpriced when you consider that. The question is though would people upgrade to a 4070 or PS5 Pro from a 2070 or PS5 at those prices for higher res/framerate, RT, and new upscaling. Thats for the person to decide. For me personally I think it's $150 above what I was expecting but that's not exactly breaking the bank either. Decisions, decisions.

 

[midnightAI]

Console generations typically last 6-7 years.
As they go on, the processing power gap between the PCs and consoles grow larger and larger.
The likelihood of parts of the market jumping from console to PC grows each year as the console grows older.

A console maker can avoid this by creating a premium option.

It is thus clear that the PS5 Pro is not meant as a mass market product.
Rather, it is targeted at a small minority of console gamers that can afford to jump to the high-end PC market.

It is certainly more profitable to sell regular PS5's to everybody else.

I wouldn't even bother, people were like this when PS4 Pro was announced also. Much of it is fake rage, the PS5 still exists but some are acting like the only choice is the Pro, but for them it's too expensive, so they'll make out they are getting a PC instead.... Even though that's even more expensive for comparable performance.

 

[Chu Fye]

It's more worrying for the price of the PS6.

My sentiments exactly

 

[Bojji]

Pc may be more expensive, but you get

1. Free online play
2. Vastly cheaper games
3. The means to illegally stream all your favorite sports.
4. The means to torrent all the latest tv shows & movies
5. Infinite pornography.
6. Ad blockers.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Deleted

 

[midnightAI]

What was the cost of the leading GPUs on the PC market at the time of launch for each of these consoles? I'm pretty sure the whole wider market has shown the same relative increase in costs (I may be wrong) so it may be disingenuous to make this comparison, but I think this mentality may explain some people's dislike of the pricing.

Correct, and due to that the base PS5 is yet to see a price decrease

 

[hinch7]

with zen2 cpu and 256 bit memory interface its not

As a 4070Ti owner, this hurts lol.

 

[VolticArchangel]

I wouldn't even bother, people were like this when PS4 Pro was announced also.

No, they were not. Stop coping with revisionist history.

The PS4 Pro, despite being signifantly underpowered than the One X and had to rely on checkerboard rendering for most of it's games (compared to some native 4k games on the One X) was widely considered to have positive reception across the industry.

It launched with the same fucking price as the base PS4, $399.99.

This garbage is the opposite, almost double the price of the launch base console with the disc drive included, and mostly negative reception from the entire fanbase, from the start.

 

[SirKicksalot]

Premium products are not announced in 9 minute streams with zero new content and with the price only mentioned in the ending slide. It felt like they had to shovel out a product designed in a different economy so they might as well do a quick and dirty reveal.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Let's see how much the fan and the PSU are premium like.

Most likely shit quality like in the normal PS5.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Premium products are not announced in 9 minute streams with zero new content and with the price only mentioned in the ending slide. It felt like they had to shovel out a product designed in a different economy so they might as well do a quick and dirty reveal.

Exactly!

 

[midnightAI]

No, they were not. Stop coping with revisionist history.

The PS4 Pro, despite being signifantly underpowered than the One X and had to rely on checkerboard rendering for most of it's games (compared to some native 4k games on the One X) was widely considered to have positive reception across the industry.

It launched with the same fucking price as the base PS4, $399.99.

This garbage is the opposite, almost double the price of the launch base console with the disc drive included, and mostly negative reception from the entire fanbase, from the start.

And yet only 14% of buyers got one, this will be the same, and Sony knows this. By the time the PS4 Pro was released the std PS4 and slim were cheaper. Currently the PS5 is similar to launch price (more expensive in some regions), chip prices have increased, the Pro is not going to be launch PS5 price is it?

 

[Cornbread78]

I know it's tough to wrap around your head that their audience for this is Techies, Diehards & hipsters that always buy the latest & greatest (iPhone losers that buy a new phone every year.) They aren't trying to sell 100mil units.....

Does the price suck, yuuuup.
Does Sony give af? Noooope.

 

[King Dazzar]

they are buttering us up for a £900 PS6 and a £1,200 PS6 Pro

I think Xbox may lead the charge if it is a higher end expensive PC hybrid as rumoured. And they'll be focused on other points of access anyway (cloud, PC, mobile etc) But Sony will have a problem as not enough of their customers will move from the previous gen. We'll end up with massive gen splits of customers. And with Sony's focus on console, they'll have a problem. So I'm not so convinced they'll take the piss too much on a base console.

 

[Bernardougf]

I always supported the Pro ... and advocated even for this kind of price o... but the final product in my eyes is not matching the price... for the 45% perfomance upgrade, with the same outdated cpu, a 300 dollars difference is ridiculous... Maybe some tech guy who knows about price components can break this down and make make sense for me .. because right now .. I dont see the value and dont feel anything "premium" about it.

In fact as posted multiple times.. this price range is getting too close to a good PC build ... and it should not.. with this price it should be equivalent to a great PC build imho

 

[Schmendrick]

It´s a product for those that want something akin to PC performance without actually wanting to go for a PC.
I think it`s utterly stupid to accept all the usual console limitations at this pricepoint, but there is a lot of more expensive pointless tech out there and it`s entirely optional so not worth getting emotional over it imho

 

[Kacho]

It’s a terrible value no matter how you try to justify it.

 

[Neff]

The issue isn't that people can't afford it, it's that it's simply not worth it, at all. It's a massive boost in cost for less features and an almost unnoticable improvement in performance.

A regular PS5 respresents significantly better value.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

With a Zen 2 processor that gap will not close as much as your post implies.

 

[PeteBull]

The XSX and PS4 Pro were premium consoles as well. They didn’t shit the bed with pricing. Because it’s a console.

And they both had discdrives on top of one x being +400% gpu power wise, ps4pr0 was solid +120% at least, not that measly +45% we getting with ps5pr0 and no discdrive, price is secondary, primary is bad value proposition

 

[King Dazzar]

I always supported the Pro ... and advocated even for this kind of price o... but the final product in my eyes is not matching the price... for the 45% perfomance upgrade, with the same outdated cpu, a 300 dollars difference is ridiculous... Maybe some tech guy who knows about price components can break this down and make make sense for me .. because right now .. I dont see the value and dont feel anything "premium" about it.

In fact as posted multiple times.. this price range is getting too close to a good PC build ... and it should not.. with this price it should be equivalent to a great PC build imho

I think they may have got away with it more, if the package wasnt so bare bones. No drive, no stand etc. They could have even at least given us a black version to save us buying yet more plates. As it is, the piss take is too visible to everyone.
I'm still buying one though.

 

[keefged4]

Not with games being digital-only, you won't.

I tried changing to PC on 2021. I enjoyed the cheap old games at first, but when I wanted to buy new games at release, it was over $100 CAD for games that I can't lend or sell. Baldur's Gate 3 was the final nail in the coffin. I spent $100 on a game that I played for four hours and never want to touch again. I am stuck with it. It is in my Steam library to forever remind me to not buy digital. With a PS5 game, I can sell the disc and recover ~80% of my cost.

You had a 2 hour refund window, with BG3 you would have had ample time to tell whether or not it was for you and request a refund if not. You can steam share libraries now. In general PC games are much cheaper than any other platform, with much better deals available than the console equivilents, so your arguments don't really stack up. In general though, the point I was trying to make wasn't just about the "digital only" games, its that you are not just restricted to the "pro" upgrades for games that sony mandates with the PS5 Pro. On PC, you upgrade your GPU and EVERY game is "pro" enhanced ootb.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Better than the PS5 digital SKU. Because that is the non-premium counterpart its based on since it comes without a disc drive. So it cost $250 more than the PS5 digital. So here is the question, is over 100GB/s more bandwidth, double the SSD size, better RT, AI acceleration hardware, 50%ish faster GPU, 10%ish faster CPU and a slight markup on top of all that.... not better than the non-premium counterpart?

All I'm saying is that asking 800€ for a slight CPU upgrade (on a CPU that's already outdated) and showing off the GPU improvements on games that didn't really needed them instead of on those that actually need them doesn't feel to me like a premium product at all.

You can label it as you like and look for the definition of "premium" that better suits your argument, as well as spend your money as you see fit. But it won't change my mind that a slight upgrade for twice the price can be considered premium at all, nor even a good deal to begin with.

 

[Bernardougf]

I know it's tough to wrap around your head that their audience for this is Techies, Diehards & hipsters that always buy the latest & greatest (iPhone losers that buy a new phone every year.) They aren't trying to sell 100mil units.....

Does the price suck, yuuuup.
Does Sony give af? Noooope.

Price is not the real problem here ... charge 1.000 dollars for it ... but show the value compared to what you already have. The ps4pro had value for the price.. the ps5pro is not showing this.. is the first 799 console since dont know when ... it should be a monster.. and its definitely not.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Premium products are not announced in 9 minute streams with zero new content and with the price only mentioned in the ending slide. It felt like they had to shovel out a product designed in a different economy so they might as well do a quick and dirty reveal.

People seem to think that stream was for marketing, it was not

It was housekeeping to get it out there and have Cerny do some nerd talk, which personally I wish he went into much more detail

The marketing begins likely next week if not then most certainly the week of TGS

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

With ZEN2 still as CPU is not, some people would say that it is bottlenecked mid-range PC.

Just accept the truth.

 

[hemo memo]

They’re showing PS4 games for this. I mean base PS5 would not only last you the rest of the generation no problem but actually even the start of next gen with all the cross-gen games.

 

[PeteBull]

I always supported the Pro ... and advocated even for this kind of price o... but the final product in my eyes is not matching the price... for the 45% perfomance upgrade, with the same outdated cpu, a 300 dollars difference is ridiculous... Maybe some tech guy who knows about price components can break this down and make make sense for me .. because right now .. I dont see the value and dont feel anything "premium" about it.

In fact as posted multiple times.. this price range is getting too close to a good PC build ... and it should not.. with this price it should be equivalent to a great PC build imho

Same cpu with just mild oc (roughly 10%)so we can claim same price there, 2tb ssd so for endconsumer at retail its 50-60usd more, for sony it will be obviously smaller price increase, maybe 30usd?, gpu wise lets even call it best case scenario so 6700xt vs 7800xt (its actually 48% performance increase between those 2 and 4gigs more of vram, but lets assume its closest to what we got in ps5 vs pr0, thats currently exactly same price vs what 6700xt launched at, 479$).
All in all ps5pr0 should be at max 600$/€ including discdrive for what it is, specswise, so u can tell right away sony making money on every console sold, and not small money either with 780usd/920euro disc version ps5pr0.

Especially here, in europe where xbox dropped the ball for a while sony decided it has no competition and can charge us playstation fans to the max.

 

[cireza]

Overpriced =/= Premium

 

[Crispy Gamer]

in the realm of £700/$700 though, why not spend the extra and upgrade entierly to a PC? You will have a better, less restrictive experience than sticking with the PS Ecosystem. Plus you get access to upscaling technology that is more mature and infinite "backwards compatability". Could be a good entry point for a lot of customers this.

I'd rather not wait for exclusives plus I'm just a console gamer

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This garbage is the opposite, almost double the price of the launch base console with the disc drive included, and mostly negative reception from the entire fanbase, from the start.

Whenever you find yourself taking an artistic license with points of fact to make an argument, then you know you should probably back off.

The launch base console was $399. Is now $449 (yeah the crazy things price went up)... and that one didn't have a disc drive.

The one with a disc drive was $499. Still is thankfully. How is $250 more than a digital PS5 and $200 more than a disc-based PS5... double the price?

I just find it funny how all this is because people want it to be cheaper lol. The sooner you all realize Sony doesn't give a shit if it's cheaper and will only make it cheaper when they do, the better. This thing is still gonna sell as they expect it to.

 

[omegasc]

Only significant upgrades are the storage and GPU. They are not worth $300 over the Slim DE model.

Faster memory, an extra 1TB storage space, custom chip for ML.
I agree it's expensive, but let's not forget how quick these things add up to the bill in the end.

 

[Bernardougf]

Same cpu with just mild oc (roughly 10%)so we can claim same price there, 2tb ssd so for endconsumer at retail its 50-60usd more, for sony it will be obviously smaller price increase, maybe 30usd?, gpu wise lets even call it best case scenario so 6700xt vs 7800xt (its actually 48% performance increase between those 2 and 4gigs more of vram, but lets assume its closest to what we got in ps5 vs pr0, thats currently exactly same price vs what 6700xt launched at, 479$).
All in all ps5pr0 should be at max 600$/€ including discdrive for what it is, specswise, so u can tell right away sony making money on every console sold, and not small money either with 780usd/920euro disc version ps5pr0.

Especially here, in europe where xbox dropped the ball for a while sony decided it has no competition and can charge us playstation fans to the max.

Its seems about right ... I said in the predictions thread that the price would be between 599-699 depending on configuration.... when all the leaks seemed about right I was expecting the 599 diskless ... it already is 200 more then the ps5 launch ... but 699 for this seems really off.. 799 ? Thats just nvidia levels of pricing.

 

[AJUMP23]

nobody forgot it is $700.

 

[PeteBull]

Faster memory, an extra 1TB storage space, custom chip for ML.
I agree it's expensive, but let's not forget how quick these things add up to the bill in the end.

that 1tb more ssd is 50-60 usd more at retail, so for sony maybe 30usd more since they buying in bulk, whole ps5pr0 is soc so 1 chip for cpu,gpu and memory, extremly cheap stuff as we got with all consoles, even disc ps5 was 500usd/euro, by now ps5pr0 gpu costs same cash at retail than ps5's gpu costed when it launched so should be 0 price increase with that measly +45% increase over the span of 4 years, ps5pr0 for what they selling is 200usd/300euro overpriced.

 

[simpatico]

I know when I think of premium, Professional Grade Gaming Hardware, I think of Zen 2 cores with ULP clocks. You don’t want a Bugatti CPU. Much better to have something understated that handles well around the corners. Xbots don’t realize this and think it’s all about computing power.

 

[proandrad]

People aren’t forgetting anything. They are just mad that they want it and it’s out of their price range. I get it, I’m real upset over the prices of a new lambo.

 

[Gaiff]

Faster memory, an extra 1TB storage space, custom chip for ML.
I agree it's expensive, but let's not forget how quick these things add up to the bill in the end.

What did you think I was speaking about when I mentioned storage?

16Gbps to 18Gbps is a small upgrade when 8GB GDDR6 chips costed $27 to manufacture just last year.

The $300 is greed-driven, nothing else.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I know when I think of premium, Professional Grade Gaming Hardware, I think of Zen 2 cores with ULP clocks. You down want a Bugatti CPU. Much better to have something understated that handles well around the corners. Xbots don’t realize this and think it’s all about computing power.

What do you think said Bugatti CPU with improved GPU would have cost if this thing is $700?

 

[Moridianae]

People seem to think that stream was for marketing, it was not

It was housekeeping to get it out there and have Cerny do some nerd talk, which personally I wish he went into much more detail

The marketing begins likely next week if not then most certainly the week of TGS

Better be some strong marketing to bring the point home, because the response to this reveal has been disastrous.

I'm sure they see the negative feedback, so they better really show why it's worth that price tag.

"Muh PS *FOUR* games run at upscaled 4k/8K" ain't it.

 

[PeteBull]

People aren’t forgetting anything. They are just mad that they want it and it’s out of their price range. I get it, I’m real upset over the prices of a new lambo.

New lambo for gaming is 2,5- 3k usd/euro top end pc, not 920 euro console(counting discdrive) that is 100euro cheaper from actual pc rig with better specs, sony charging us premium for mid product.

 

[LordCBH]

It can both be a premium product and be absurdly priced for what it is. For $700 it SHOULD include the drive and vertical stand.

 

[Topher]

Faster memory, an extra 1TB storage space, custom chip for ML.
I agree it's expensive, but let's not forget how quick these things add up to the bill in the end.

That extra 1 TB is the problem, imo. It is unneeded when we have a non-proprietary storage upgrade options. Charging a premium price for a storage upgrade is pretty typical these days, but usually it is optional.

And frankly, I didn't see anyone here clamoring for more SSD space for Pro, but folks buying Pro are paying for it whether they like it or not.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

This console looks like it was predicated and designed to fleece its potential buyers and loyal customers on the surface.
A lack of games to date, coupled with nothing compelling shown to take advantage of the hardware.
Modular design with missing/separate disc drive (another step towards forcing you into digital serfdom- and just wait for the scummy shit pulled once they have everyone) and not even a fuckin stand for the console after dropping $700 before taxes.
Get fucked

 

[proandrad]

New lambo for gaming is 2,5- 3k usd/euro top end pc, not 920 euro console(counting discdrive) that is 100euro cheaper from actual pc rig with better specs, sony charging us premium for mid product.

Bro, I’m American I don’t understand your Monopoly money. Maybe if you guys were free it wouldn’t be so expensive. Every single person here buys an overpriced product whether it’s a certain food brand, clothing, phone, a nvidia gpu, or some other product. The difference is this is one is not in their price range that they are will to pay for console, but they really want it and it pisses them off. Let’s just be honest, we don’t need to do mental gymnastics trying to justify it.

 

[omegasc]

that 1tb more ssd is 50-60 usd more at retail, so for sony maybe 30usd more since they buying in bulk, whole ps5pr0 is soc so 1 chip for cpu,gpu and memory, extremly cheap stuff as we got with all consoles, even disc ps5 was 500usd/euro, by now ps5pr0 gpu costs same cash at retail than ps5's gpu costed when it launched so should be 0 price increase with that measly +45% increase over the span of 4 years, ps5pr0 for what they selling is 200usd/300euro overpriced.

Don't compare prices from launch date. Compare it with the Slim now. The Slim already cut costs, but still needed a price increase. Also, I think your assumed prices are too low for the custom stuff. The SSD is off the shelf stuff, I agree it must cost a lot less, but things are different for custom silicon (the ML one). I think 250 extra, like Mr. Phoenix mentioned, is "fine", since they want to make a profit from day 1.

What did you think I was speaking about when I mentioned storage?

16Gbps to 18Gbps is a small upgrade when 8GB GDDR6 chips costed $27 to manufacture just last year.

The $300 is greed-driven, nothing else.

699-449 = 250

That extra 1 TB is the problem, imo. It is unneeded when we have a non-proprietary storage upgrade options. Charging a premium price for a storage upgrade is pretty typical these days, but usually it is optional.

And frankly, I didn't see anyone here clamoring for more SSD space for Pro, but folks buying Pro are paying for it whether they like it or not.

I would prefer to have a single cheaper 1TB version, but between included disc drive or extra storage, I would opt for the extra space.

 

[Parazels]

The price of the PS4 Pro was the same as the PS4 base launch price. And it came with a disc drive.

Do you really believe today it's possible to release PS5 Pro with a disc-drive for $499?

If Sony is bad for you, which generous company is ready to do that?