PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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PhoenixDark said:
I'm sorry, but it's highly unlikely that Obama wins women by 15 points in November. Most women are not going to be focused on Planned Parenthood - this economy will be about the economy. And as Romney's numbers improve post convention/VP, women women will move back to the right.
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Just like women voted in droves for McCain because he picked a woman VP, amirite?

FYI, iirc, women voted 56-43 Obama in 2008. 15% isn't unreasonable given the GOPs fucktardis war on women as of late.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Regardless, he's behind by 15 points with women right now, which is in line with Obama's actual peformance in 2008. If the economy sinks, Obama's numbers will drop across the board. But without that, I don't see Romney outperforming McCain with women.
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Agreed for the most part. If the economy slumps, numbers will go down with everyone except a couple groups - as I said earlier. I happen to believe things will start stagnating soon.

But I do believe Romney will do better than McCain even if the economy stabilizes, in part because even solid jobs growth will still leave us with high unemployment rates
 
There must be something inherently ironic about a candidate who is pushing his ability to get people back to work, when as an executive, all he did was put people out of work and pocket the savings.


The man fired many more people than he hired...his state had one of the worst economic growths during his governorship of any state in the Union.


People think Romney is good on Jobs because he's a Repub, it comes with the territory. But much like being strong on national defense, Obama has been able to reverse that and strengthen his case to where he's now favored.


Some facts of Romney actually BEING a job-killer in very practical real ways, and not just in idealogical arguments about possible policy ramifications should sour the public on Romney's desire to create jobs.


Not to mention he wants to consolidate and remove agencies (lost jobs) and he's got countless money in off shore accounts which he hasn't been using to hire employees here. His real life "jobs" record is abysmal
 
Kosmo said:
Uh oh: Obama White House Pays Women Less Than Men

You won't hear the Obama campaign mention this any more and it definitely won't be brought up in a debate when Romney will simply say "Mr. President, you're the one paying women less than men, not me."
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Genius, The law says women get paid the same for the same work / positions. Not for showing up to the work force. This is the type of right wing misconstrued statistical bullshit that no one ever trusts to right wing to be genuine about.


He's got a female secretary of state, nominated two females to the Supreme Court...that's already above and beyond what most predecessors have done. It's classic Rovian tactics of using lies and smear campaigns to go after a candidates strengths, and every time a ring wing outlet or individual uses it, they further lose credibility as a party of racists who'll do anything and say anything to cheat their way into office.


Also, your bolded, Romney pays women less than men in his companies. He does it for equal positions, and famously said the reason so few women have executive positions at his companies is because he can't "find enough qualified women for those positions"...So no Romney pays women less than men. Republicans have never been, and will never be a party that understands women's issues. They frowned upon abortion rights, frowned upon the feminist movement, frowned upon contraception, frowned upon women in the work force, and are now passing legislation to block or repeal laws that allow women to have equal pay in states across the union.

The Republican party is the party that serves the interests of corporations, and white males. Minorities aren't well served by Republicans, and women aren't well served by Republicans...them's just the facts
 
quadriplegicjon said:
A lot of the stuff that Republicans, and Romney are against, actually do affect the daily lives of women. For instance equal pay bills, also the HCR bill has provisions that don't allow insurance companies to jack up the price of insurance for women. It's not just about reproductive rights. I feel like this won't just blow over so easily.
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I really don't think it does (for reason Phoenix mentioned), BUT, ignoring that, it will because people made it about birth control and abortion vs the other points you made. It limits the scope of the narrative.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I really don't think it does (for reason Phoenix mentioned), BUT, ignoring that, it will because people made it about birth control and abortion vs the other points you made. It limits the scope of the narrative.
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People underestimate the narrative of birth control and contraception. Those things aren't equal to abortion. about 30% of this country is the fringe right, and most of those are males. The vast majority of women feel very strongly about allowing contraception and birth control to be part of women's lives. They see it no differently than condoms for men. It is one thing to go after 3rd tri-mester abortions and another thing entirely to pick a fight with birth control pills and contraception


The right is so obtuse about the issue and so radical that they have a hard time seeing the difference. But women in this country see a fundamental difference between those issues, and this was the first time in a long time that the debate wasn't focused on abortion, and was instead focused on preventive steps to avoid pregnancy while still sexually active...and that was a huge mistake Republicans made.


Edit: No women that I know who are on the pill, including any one I've dated, actually likes the pill. It ruins their hormonal system, it affects their dieting, and throws off their period. And it's a huge nuisance. They do it because they want to take personal responsibility for their own bodies and have a backup plan in case a condom breaks or a variety of other facts necessitate it. Now they are being attacked for being responsible adults who are taking on an extra burden for themselves and their significant others.

Women voters won't vote just on this issue, but it doesn't make it that the fringe right's views on this issue are any less shocking or damning
 
marathonfool said:
This Ann Romney thing is gonna blow past, it's April and I guess everyone is bored. The general election doesn't start until the conventions.

I'd like to see Romney continue to put an emphasis on women's issues. It's a stance he cannot win.
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Never doubt our ability to fixate on minutiae.
Invisible_Insane said:
I'm sure the figures you're citing account for position, experience, levels of education...

Kosmo gonna Kosmo.


see above
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Of course they controlled for such factors. Do you think Kosmo would propagate fallacious nonsense?
 
PhoenixDark said:
Romney supports equal pay. And considering most people want the health care bill repealed, I don't see that as a major hurdle for him either
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He says he supports equal pay, but will he back the equal pay bills put forth? What about the history of the companies he has run? How have women faired at equal positions against men?

Most people don't actually know what exactly is in the healthcare bill, once they find out, they tend to have a different view. Wanna bet Obama will be focusing on the specifics of the healthcare bill?
 
Vahagn said:
Genius, The law says women get paid the same for the same work / positions. Not for showing up to the work force. This is the type of right wing misconstrued statistical bullshit that no one ever trusts to right wing to be genuine about.
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"Hey, I can't help it if the only thing women are qualified for is being a Secretary" right?
 
quadriplegicjon said:
He says he supports equal pay, but will he back the equal pay bills put forth? What about the history of the companies he has run? How have women faired at equal positions against men?

Most people don't actually know what exactly is in the healthcare bill, once they find out, they tend to have a different view. Wanna bet Obama will be focusing on the specifics of the healthcare bill?
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Equal pay is already the law, and he has said he does not support repealing Ledbetter.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Equal pay is already the law, and he has said he does not support repealing Ledbetter.
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You ignored everything else about my post. And if equal pay for women is already a law and not an issue at all, then that crap Kosmo and Republican bloggers are writing about right now would be impossible, no?
 
Black Mamba said:
It's a median salary, not average.

There could be more women with high paying jobs than men and still have a lower median.

math, how does it work?
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Lol thank you



Again Kosmo...Worst case scenario, Obama has been paying women less for the SAME positions...Romney's been doing that all his life sooooooo
 
quadriplegicjon said:
You ignored everything else about my post. And if equal pay for women is already a law and not an issue at all, then that crap Kosmo and Republican bloggers are writing about right now would be impossible, no?
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You can still discriminate by who you hire for which position. Regardless, this is only a talking point for Republicans to use against Obama, but something he would have to address - and any addressing of it will just be trying to justify it in some way. Even if it's a perfectly reasonable explanation, it's a loser to have to explain it.

Just like he comments on Augusta National not having women members, and yet in the 90+ rounds he's played as President, there are no records of a woman ever being in his foursome.
 
Kosmo said:
You can still discriminate by who you hire for which position. Regardless, this is only a talking point for Republicans to use against Obama, but something he would have to address - and any addressing of it will just be trying to justify it in some way. Even if it's a perfectly reasonable explanation, it's a loser to have to explain it.

Just like he comments on Augusta National not having women members, and yet in the 90+ rounds he's played as President, there are no records of a woman ever being in his foursome.
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Know who else commented about Augusta? Wait for it... Mitt Romney...

And talking point? LOL no.
 
Dax01 said:
He doesn't support changing current law, but that's hardly an enthusiastic endorsement.
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Now we're quibbling over tone? lol

He supports the current law, end of story. Dems had their fun for a few hours yesterday but that issue is no longer on the table to kick around
 
Regarding equal pay for women or minorities or whoever. If they are just as productive and get paid less then why don't you see loads of businesses ONLY hiring women? You could pay them less than men and undercut all your competitors and put them out of business. The idea that equally skilled, hard working, and dedicated women get paid less than men is a complete fallacy.
 
Kosmo said:
You can still discriminate by who you hire for which position. Regardless, this is only a talking point for Republicans to use against Obama, but something he would have to address - and any addressing of it will just be trying to justify it in some way. Even if it's a perfectly reasonable explanation, it's a loser to have to explain it.

Just like he comments on Augusta National not having women members, and yet in the 90+ rounds he's played as President, there are no records of a woman ever being in his foursome.
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Surely you realize this is pathetic, and I'd imagine you heard it from Rush or someone else. If this is the GOP playbook for winning back women, good fucking luck.

edit: haha, he's actually golfed with women after all.
 
Kosmo said:
You can still discriminate by who you hire for which position. Regardless, this is only a talking point for Republicans to use against Obama, but something he would have to address - and any addressing of it will just be trying to justify it in some way. Even if it's a perfectly reasonable explanation, it's a loser to have to explain it.

Just like he comments on Augusta National not having women members, and yet in the 90+ rounds he's played as President, there are no records of a woman ever being in his foursome.
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I have a feeling you're going to turn this chicken inside out when (if?) you extract yourself from it.
 
Rubio says he isn't going to be the VP
for now
:

Will Marco Rubio just admit he wants to be vice president already? We're pretty sure the GOP darling is up to something, but he's still playing hard to get! The senator from Florida continued to deny any interest in a VP run Wednesday, saying, "I'm not going to be the vice-presidential nominee, but I'm always flattered when people bring it up. I think they mean it as a compliment." Last week, former Florida governor Jeb Bush endorsed Rubio to accompany Romney on the Republican ticket, calling him "the best orator of American politics today."
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2012/03/28/marco-rubio-says-he-won-t-be-v-p.html

Could be legit, could be playing dumb. I'm going to settle on playing dumb. Rubio getting WH experience would make him all the more "seasoned" for being a Presidential candidate someday. He's young enough where it would really be advantageous for him to take on a VP role and still be at a good age for the Presidency when that's over with.
 
This Rosin thing is such a fake controversy. This is like Michelle Obama twitter blasting some Fox News analyst for the many lies/insults they said about her. Talk about punching down, but I guess it's a slow news day. Props to the Romney campaign for making random talking-head chatter a legit news story.
 
PhoenixDark said:
He's an impressive orator and doesn't rely on a teleprompter
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XE6xl.jpg
 
The Chosen One said:
This Rosin thing is such a fake controversy. This is like Michelle Obama twitter blasting some Fox News analyst for the many lies/insults they said about her. Talk about punching down, but I guess it's a slow news day. Props to the Romney campaign for making random talking-head chatter a legit news story.
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Democrats are shitty at politics, and this is just one more display of that ineptitude. Punching down, indeed.

PhoenixDark said:
He's an impressive orator and doesn't rely on a teleprompter
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Really, PD?
 
Invisible_Insane said:
Democrats are shitty at politics, and this is just one more display of that ineptitude. Punching down, indeed.
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This reminds me of how David Plouffe recommended to Obama to focus on welfare/Medicare cuts after Paul Ryan's budget and the GOP's embrace of it handed them a huge boon for the upcoming elections. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so dumb.
 
So, if not to workers, where’s the money going? Of the companies that comprise the Standard and Poor’s 500, net income (chiefly, their profits) has risen 23 percent since 2007, the last year of the bubble, the Wall Street Journal reported this week. Their cash reserves have increased 49 percent during that time — in large part because they’re neither hiring in the United States nor boosting their workers’ incomes. Workers are producing more: “In 2007, the companies generated an average of $378,000 in revenue for every employee on their payrolls,” the Journal reported. “Last year, that figure rose to $420,000.” But workers are seeing none of that increase in their pay.

Profits and dividends are up and wages are down — which is why, as University of California economist Emmanuel Saez has documented, all income growth in the United States in 2010 went to the wealthiest 10 percent of households, and 93 percent to the wealthiest 1 percent. Profits and dividends are up largely because wages are down, as JPMorgan Chase chief investment officer Michael Cembalest has documented. “U.S. labor compensation,” Cembalest wrote in a newsletter to the bank’s major investors last year, “is now at a 50-year low relative to both company sales and U.S. GDP.”

Why is this recovery different from all other recoveries? Because American workers have lost all their bargaining power. That’s a function of ongoing high unemployment levels, but not only that. The 1981-82 recession had even higher rates of joblessness, but wages didn’t continue to decline during the ensuing recovery. There have been two fundamental alterations in the U.S. economy since Ronald Reagan was president, however. First, American multinational corporations now locate much of their production abroad. Second, with the rate of private-sector unionization down to a microscopic 6.9 percent, workers have no power to bargain for higher pay. Employers can serenely blow them off — and judging by the data, that’s exactly what employers are doing.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...rther-behind/2012/04/10/gIQA75h78S_story.html

:( Dat trickle down
 
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