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[speculawyer]

At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, “I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?”

“You get nothing,” the president said. “I get that for free.”

This is why I have been saying we have to go over the cliff. They need to realize they are bargaining with nothing.

From there, we then discuss Keynesian stimulus to help the economy. And those Keynesian stimulus measures will be tax cuts. That defines the starting point and what is being discussed.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Please say this is true. Boss.

Everytime I read that I can't laugh my ass off at the sheer badassery of it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

This is why I have been saying we have to go over the cliff. They need to realize they are bargaining with nothing.

From there, we then discuss Keynesian stimulus to help the economy. And those Keynesian stimulus measures will be tax cuts. That defines the starting point and what is being discussed.

Aren't the sequester cuts the bigger harm of going over the cliff?

 

[el retorno]

Aren't the sequester cuts the bigger harm of going over the cliff?

They don't kick in and kill every thing January first. Its just that after the 1st obama can pin the entire thing on republicans not even being able to pass their own plan

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Aren't the sequester cuts the bigger harm of going over the cliff?

Possibly, although the cuts are to annual budgets; in other words, they don't have to happen specifically in any month or quarter. So most likely they'll push the cuts to the end of the year, giving themselves time to introduce new bills and a new budget to offset or prevent them. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PhoenixDark]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

 

[RDreamer]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

Oh god help us all...

 

[el retorno]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

from where?

 

[RDreamer]

from where?

Quick search tells me Erick Erickson floated the idea originally back in November. Now, Laura Ingraham and Breitbart.com ran stories that house republicans were planning it.

 

[Forever]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I actually like this op-ed from Thomas Friedman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/opinion/sunday/friedman-send-in-the-clowns.html?hp

Accurately identifies the problem with the Republican party being their base.

 

[RDreamer]

I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'd imagine this would be Obama's reaction, too.

 

[Gotchaye]

Huh, guess he'd actually only be one step below the job he was running for if that panned out.

 

[el retorno]

I don't see how it does them any good it would only further the divide highlighting tea party craziness. Obama's different this term he's not gonna pander to tea party voters he'll just let them show of their stupidity and watch it backfire.

 

[B-Dubs]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

Please no. He's supposed to go away forever after the election. Dude got clowned by Biden, he needs to go away.

 

[Coldnoodle]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

 

[GhaleonEB]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

That would be...spectacular. One of the people Obama defeated in his re-election as his primary political opponent for the next 2-4 years. Really wouldn't do Ryan or the party any favors.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't see how Cantor wouldn't flip a shit. Obviously a lulzy rumor but Ryan would have to go through that blowfish first.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Cantor getting the Speakership would be a disaster for this country. The man's a true believer.

 

[leroidys]

Cantor getting the Speakership would be a disaster for this country. The man's a true believer.

Is he though? Seems like an opportunistic scumbag to me. But yeah, it would be DIZASUTA DAY OF CANTOR

 

[GhaleonEB]

I don't see how Cantor wouldn't flip a shit. Obviously a lulzy rumor but Ryan would have to go through that blowfish first.

True. Pending some unexpected challenge, he's next in line and won't relinquish that position without a fight.

 

[fallagin]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

Now we can finally get something done in washington...

 

[polyh3dron]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

I'd rather it be Ryan because he isn't half the smooth talker Cantor can be at times. Paul Ryan sucks at lying almost as much as Romney does.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Cantor gun be mad. Dude's been chomping at the bit to replace Boehner.

Cantor would be better. Ryan can blunt the party's craziness with calm, soothing rhetoric. He's still full of shit but he can sound damned humble and earnest when it suits him, which a lot of people fell for initially during the election. Cantor is a blowhard and a loose cannon. He quaffs tea party kool-aid by the drum and is really the perfect face for this party as it stands.

 

[watershed]

Laura Ingraham is the source, well actually a "well placed conservative voice" told her so.

 

[kingkitty]

Technically a person doesn't have to be a representative in order to qualify for the job of house speaker, so make it Clint Eastwood or something.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The puzzling thing about Ryan being floated as the next Speaker is that he supported Plan B. if he had been against it from the start he'd have quite an argument against Boehner next month, but now he kind of looks weak. Earlier this month he tried to flex some muscle by supporting a candidate for a leadership position who was running against Boeher's choice and lost, so overall he has struck out twice.

IMO I don't see Ryan running for Speaker unless he is privately acknowledging he'll never be president. I don't see a way for anyone to turn around the House GOP brand; it would sink Ryan's already weak popularity among regular people. He'd be stuck in the House...

 

[Clevinger]

Cantor getting the Speakership would be a disaster for this country. The man's a true believer.

I'd say Ryan is more so.

That would be...spectacular. One of the people Obama defeated in his re-election as his primary political opponent for the next 2-4 years. Really wouldn't do Ryan or the party any favors.

I'd agree if the media didn't worship the wonky ground he walks on.

 

[norinrad]

There's a rumor that Paul Ryan is allegedly replacing Boehner as Speaker next year

wow

He's an intellectual......

 

[Incognito]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...ident-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story.html

Rich Beeson, the Romney political director who co­authored the now-discredited Ohio memo, said that only after the election did he realize what Obama was doing with so much manpower on the ground. Obama had more than 3,000 paid workers nationwide, compared with 500 for Romney, and hundreds of thousands of volunteers.

“Now I know what they were doing with all the staffs and ­offices,” Beeson said. “They were literally creating a one-to-one contact with voters,” something that Romney did not have the staff to match.

Hilarious. What did they think the offices and staff were used for? Obama gift giveaway parties or something?

 

[The Librarian]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...ident-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story.html



Hilarious. What did they think the offices and staff were used for? Obama gift giveaway parties or something?

I still haven't gotten my free birth control.

 

[PhoenixDark]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...ident-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story.html



Hilarious. What did they think the offices and staff were used for? Obama gift giveaway parties or something?

Did they think Obama was playing around in 2008 and accidentally won? How does a campaign not understand basic shit like that; none of them had experience running a local election? This is the type of thing that would have been obvious early to an old campaign vet. You can just imagine the scene from the upcoming adaption where dramatic music and a montage of voter contact scenes quickly flash, then the rugged Romney campaign guy drops his scotch and says "they're running a local campaign...on a national level. Get me the governor on the phone." That will be in Game Change 2, mark my words.

These guys better not run another campaign ever again.

 

[The Librarian]

The perfect campaign.

 

[Mike M]

My brain can't even comprehend Ryan as speaker.

 

[Link]

My brain can't even comprehend Ryan as speaker.

Sure it can.

 

[RustyNails]

The perfect campaign.

Lol. Oh PD.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Mathew Dowd is such a hack, cant stand em.

 

[KingK]

I would laugh so hard if Paul Ryan was Speaker. I think it'll be Cantor though, which sucks because the dude is insufferable and I can't stand his voice. Every word out of that man's mouth makes me want to punch a baby.

 

[The Technomancer]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...ident-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story.html



Hilarious. What did they think the offices and staff were used for? Obama gift giveaway parties or something?

How the hell do you get to run a national campaign with such incompetence. How do you not study closely what your opponent is doing?

 

[TacticalFox88]

How the hell do you get to run a national campaign with such incompetence. How do you not study closely what your opponent is doing?

In hindsight, Obama was practically handed a second term.

 

[speculawyer]

Aren't the sequester cuts the bigger harm of going over the cliff?

Deciding to revoke many of those cuts can still be viewed as Keynesian stimulus.

We don't have the money to pay for the spending, so continuing the spending requires a rationalization beyond the fact that we just like the programs. Either the programs have to be so incredibly important that we absolutely can't allow cuts or we decide to do the spending because we like the programs and there will be a good Keynesian stimulus effect.

 

[The Librarian]

In hindsight, Obama was practically handed a second term.

The corrupted software in the Ohio voting machines was a close call, though.

 

[speculawyer]

I actually like this op-ed from Thomas Friedman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/opinion/sunday/friedman-send-in-the-clowns.html?hp

Accurately identifies the problem with the Republican party being their base.

That is the problem with GOP but the problem for the nation has been the Gerrymandering of districts that has create an unrepresentative form of government. After the 2010 election & census, the GOP Gerrymandered the FUCK out of the country.

If we had a system wherein the party with the most votes got the most Representatives then the House would be Dem controlled and we would not have the current clusterfuck. In the 2012 election, people looked at the policy solutions advocated and voted more for Dems in the Presidential, Senate, and House races. The Dems were far more vulnerable in the Senate than the GOP but still ended up GAINING members. But the Gerrymandering of the Representative districts thwarted the will of the American people.

 

[Chichikov]

We don't have the money to pay for the spending, so continuing the spending requires a rationalization beyond the fact that we just like the programs. Either the programs have to be so incredibly important that we absolutely can't allow cuts or we decide to do the spending because we like the programs and there will be a good Keynesian stimulus effect.

That's a really weird framing.
Each government program has costs and benefits (which by the way, go far deeper that the impact on the money supply).
We should keep the programs whose benefits worth the costs and cut those that don't, I don't see how any other rationalization is required.
You're using a rhetoric that is designed to drive cuts.

 

[Mike M]

Sure it can.

That doesn't look like successful comprehension...

 

[speculawyer]

The puzzling thing about Ryan being floated as the next Speaker is that he supported Plan B..

Sentences like this keep fucking with my brain because of the dual meaning of 'Plan B'.

 

[empty vessel]

We don't have the money to pay for the spending....

Of course we do. We have unlimited amounts of money, which is a mere accounting unit. If you mean that we don't have the real resources available to accomplish the ends being sought, that is also incorrect.

 

[speculawyer]

That's a really weird framing.
Each government program has costs and benefits (which by the way, go far deeper that the impact on the money supply).
We should keep the programs whose benefits worth the costs and cut those that don't, I don't see how any rationalization is required.
You're using a rhetoric that is designed to drive cuts.

Yes, I'm using the deficit-hawk framing. Clearly in the EV & MMT world, they don't see a point to worrying about the deficit at all. But in the real world there are clearly a lot of people that do worry about it (whether you agree with them or not). And if even in THAT world, what Obama is saying makes more sense than the GOP view then Obama will have 60+% approval of his views. Which he does on this issue.

Edit: I often like to find ways of framing solutions in terms of 'the conservative principles' (which often seems to be an oxymoron) in order to show how their policy prescriptions are very often TERRIBLE when viewed using their own 'principles'. Case in point:
NRA's great conservative plan to have some industry responsibility with armed guards

 

[Chichikov]

Yes, I'm using the deficit-hawk framing. Clearly in the EV & MMT world, they don't see a point to worrying about the deficit at all. But in the real world there are clearly a lot of people that do worry about it (whether you agree with them or not). And if even in THAT world, what Obama is saying makes more sense than the GOP view then Obama will have 60+% approval of his views. Which he does on this issue.

It has nothing to do with MMT.
Please read my post again more carefully, if you still think I'm making a case for unlimited spending or that the amount of government spending doesn't matter (which again, I'm pretty sure no MMT proponent actually suggests, but I'm neither an MMT-er nor an expert on the subject), let me know and I'll give it another stab.

 

[empty vessel]

For the record, MMT is not something that "one is." It is the name given to an empirical description of the monetary system. So, for example, when I say "We have unlimited amounts of money, which is a mere accounting unit," I am not "being an MMTer," I am merely describing the empirical world. Abstract accounting units are not empirically finite. To worry that we are running out of money is like worrying that the NFL scoreboard operator might run out of points if the teams keep scoring. MMT is great precisely because it focuses its attention on the underlying real things to which the social constructs relate rather than on the constructs alone.

It is unfortunate that we ever had to represent social abstractions like money physically, i.e., paper money, because it tricks people into believing that money itself is a thing that is finite and requires conservation. Hence the complaint always turning to "printing money." The sooner we get rid of paper currency and coins the better. It will help people to better understand the nature of money when it ceases being represented in physical form at all.