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[Guileless]

I mean, I think I know why, but why are religious institutions opposed to birth control?

Full engagement on that issue would require a good bit of reading on the subject of natural law, which is based on a fundamentally different understanding of human nature than that of the contemporary consumer culture that 99% of the people here hold with.

But you can read the cliff notes here:

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

 

[Four_Chamber]

I'm excited as heck for Hillary in 2016!

 

[RDreamer]

Obama Administration put out new birth control rules

On Friday, the Obama Administration announced updated regulations for its birth control rule that requires employer-based insurance plans to offer contraceptive services without a co-pay. The new rules address concerns from both Catholic groups and women’s health organizations — clarifying that women who work for religious employers will still be able to access no-cost birth control, while those religious nonprofit groups won’t have to directly finance the cost of contraceptives they oppose.

According to the updated regulation, insurers will provide separate, individual birth control coverage for the women who work at religiously-affiliated organizations, like Catholic hospitals and universities. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has issued a statement to say they “welcome” the new Obamacare regulations, and plan to comment further after a more thorough review of the rules. Other Catholic groups and theologians — including the right-leaning Catholic League — have already come out in support of the compromise, celebrating the new rules as an effective balance between religious concerns about contraception and women’s preventative health care:

 

[adamsappel]

Wait, really? Source on this?

This is from Reagan's wiki:

After completing fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses, Reagan enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve[32] on April 29, 1937, as a private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa.[33] He was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the cavalry on May 25, 1937.[34]

Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his nearsightedness, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas.[35] His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office.[36] Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the First Motion Picture Unit (officially, the "18th Army Air Force Base Unit") in Culver City, California.[36] On January 14, 1943, he was promoted to first lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California.[36] He returned to the First Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to captain on July 22, 1943.[33]

In January 1944, Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the Sixth War Loan Drive. He was re-assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II.[33] He was recommended for promotion to major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year.[37] While with the First Motion Picture Unit in 1945, he was indirectly involved in discovering actress Marilyn Monroe.[38] He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945.[37] By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.[33]

Reagan never left the United States during the war, though he kept a film reel, obtained while in the service, depicting the liberation of Auschwitz, as he believed that someday doubts would arise as to whether the Holocaust had occurred.[39] It has been alleged that he was overheard telling Israeli foreign minister Yitzhak Shamir in 1983 that he had filmed that footage himself and helped liberate Auschwitz,[39][40] though this purported conversation was disputed by Secretary of State George Shultz.[41]

The fort at Culver City was known as "Fort Wacky." I was politically active when Reagan was president (my first vote was for Mondale, ugh) and gossip of him confusing his movies with reality were common in DC political circles (my stepmother was once press secretary for Steny Hoyer). This is from the Washington Post:

When Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir visited the White House last November 29, he was impressed by a previously undisclosed remembrance of President Reagan about the Nazi extermination of Jews during World War II. Repeating it to his Israeli Cabinet five days later, Shamir said Reagan had told him that he had served as a photographer in a U.S. Army unit assigned to film Nazi death camps.

Shamir said Reagan also informed him that he had saved a copy of the film because he believed that, in time, people would question what had happened….

Shamir's account appeared December 6 in the Israeli newspaper Maariv. It was confirmed last week to Edward Walsh, the Washington Post correspondent in Jerusalem, by Israeli Cabinet secretary Dan Meridor.

On Feb. 15, famed Nazi-hunter Simon Wiesenthal met with Reagan in the White House and heard a similar story. Wiesenthal told Washington Post reporter Joanne Omang that he and Reagan had held "a very nice meeting," during which the president related "some of his personal remarks from the end of the war."

Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, also was present. He told Omang that Reagan said he was "a member of the Signal Corps taking pictures of the camps" and that he had saved a copy of the film and shown it a year later to a person who thought the reports were exaggerated.

Yeah, what makes the picture most amusing to me is how despite "Serving", both Bush Jr. and Reagan actively avoided combat positions during an actual war.

I wouldn't say Reagan avoided combat, he was classified as unfit for overseas duty. But, he had a pretty sweet gig and conflated his service in his later years.

 

[thefro]

A picture of Obama shootin' that will undoubtedly be used in Facebook memes saying something asenine.

http://m.flickr.com/lightbox?id=8436110735

I think you meant this

People on Fox News site are saying it's photoshopped, lol

 

[PhoenixDark]

Hillary is more popular now than ever, and could potentially get 70 million votes if Obama doesn't fuck up. Conservatives are so used to her being a bipartisan object of dislike among a variety of Americans, they don't know what to do now; they're running a 90s playbook against her and it just looks stupid.

It's worth noting that Drudge and others initially cheered Obama's primary success. Iowa was entertaining to them as a rebuke of Hillary, and her NH win was bitterly reviled by the right and left due to her alleged fake crying. That was one of the best days of the primary season...

I hope she runs, but more importantly I hope she gets some rest. She's writing a memoir which certainly points toward a run, depending on when the media tour begins; I'll guess it'll come out after the 2014 primaries.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I find it highly ironic that Benghazi not only failed to look like a scandal to the majority of Americans, that there's evidence that it likely pushed Hillary to run in 2016 out of spite.

Conservative strategies backfire more times than some GAF created threads.

Seriously?

 

[Cheebo]

Facebook Time!

Is that Reagan picture from a movie? I don't believe he had any military service.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

People on Fox News site are saying it's photoshopped, lol

Why am I still surprised... I can't imagine how mentally deficient a person has to be to believe that the United States government would photoshop something as simple as this instead of just saying hey kid go out there and shoot one round so we can snap a picture.

 

[Tim-E]

Is that Reagan picture from a movie? I don't believe he had any military service.

Look a few posts up.


Rachel Maddow's Drift also talks a good bit about Reagan's "military" service.

 

[PhoenixDark]

JFK and Bush Sr did some amazing shit during WWII

 

[gcubed]

JFK and Bush Sr did some amazing shit during WWII

and Ike is otherworldly

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

 

[Chichikov]

and Ike is otherworldly

Ike was a general, and while he exceled as a logistician and an administrator, I don't think he have ever fought in a frontline battle personally.
I know it's a bit apples and oranges, but personally, I'm much more impressed with stories like JFK's and Herbert Walker Bush.

Not to hate on Ike or anything, but how different do you think the outcome of the war would've been had Marshal was the supreme commander of the allied forces in Europe?

I'm more impressed of him as a president than a general.

How long was your avatar bet for?

Until we find the truth about Benghazi.

 

[PhoenixDark]

How long was your avatar bet for?

I don't remember.

 

[The Librarian]

Oh! Guess who got five extra credit points on her next test? This girl. I won that congressional ad contest.

Thanks to whomever linked that zombie Pelosi advertisement. You're amazing, PoliGAF.

 

[Chichikov]

I don't remember.

Just like the butcher of Benghazi.

 

[The Librarian]

Just like the butcher of Benghazi.

It could be a month, it could be two months, or three months.

What difference does it make?

 

[Guileless]

Speaking of the LBJ bio by Caro, and presidential military service, his description of LBJ's "combat service" is legitimately laugh out loud funny.

 

[The Librarian]

Is Glenn Kessler being serious here?

Obama: "I've shot a gun before."
Conservatives: "LOL"
Kessler: "Unable to provide a verdict. What do readers think?"

 

[Rocket Scientist]

It could be a month, it could be two months, or three months.

What difference, at this point, does it make?

You were so close.

 

[The Librarian]

Dax doesn't care about dead people.

What a heartless woman.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Hey PoliGAF, how did that PD meme of "polls go up, polls down...no one knows why" originate?

 

[Oblivion]

I wish I had a T.V. that still remained on even after it was unplugged.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Hey PoliGAF, how did that PD meme of "polls go up, polls down...no one knows why" originate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wb3AFMe2OQY#t=110s

You mean this?

I wish I had a T.V. that still remained on even after it was unplugged.

You killed the funny for me.

 

[RDreamer]

I wish I had a T.V. that still remained on even after it was unplugged.

What if it only stayed on Fox News while it was unplugged?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I wish I had a T.V. that still remained on even after it was unplugged.

Besides, wouldn't the overspending socialist Kenyan shoot brand new flatscreens instead of old CRTs?

Duh.

 

[speculawyer]

Facebook Time!

Did they even think about these before they make them? How about their candidate in uniform?

 

[Oblivion]

LOL:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/0...on-liberal-facebook-for-right-wing-knock-off/

Knew this was only a matter of time.

 

[Gotchaye]

The religious reason: Thou shalt not spill your seed upon the ground. Back in ancient times people believed sperm held everything needed to make a baby and the woman was just an incubator, ergo wasting sperm was the same as having an abortion. Now we know better but they still maintain this antiquated rule.

The social reason: More babies = more soldiers, more farmhands, more strength. A tribe's power depended on how many people it could send into battle. Combat in those days was meeting on an open field with axes and bows and going at it till one side remained.

The current reason: Being able to have a say over your sex life gives the church control. It doesn't matter if the reason is bollocks, it's still an extra way the church can exert influence therefore it gives them more power.

This is actually a lot more complicated. Protestants in the US had no problem with contraception for a very, very long time. That was a Catholic hang-up, and Protestants did not like Catholics very much. JFK had to clear the air about his Catholicism just 50 years ago. But even Catholics weren't huge assholes about it, typically (although they did not have a majority, so that may be part of it).

Likewise abortion. The modern pro-life movement did not spring up in the aftermath of Roe; opposition to abortion from non-Catholics came later. Evangelical leaders didn't care, and they didn't think their followers were likely to care. Many were actually pro-choice.

The religious right began in opposition to integration, specifically in response to the Supreme Court finding that Bob Jones University could be stripped of its tax-exempt status for racially discriminatory policies. Even then, more-or-less naked appeals to racism (already wrapped in the sort of "religious freedom" language we're hearing today) were becoming less and less successful, so the movement's leaders looked for ways to maintain their influence by opening up new fronts in what would come to be called the culture war. Catholics were a natural ally on a lot of promising issues, but big Catholic institutions were basically unwilling to compromise on abortion, so evangelicals became anti-abortion. Since then, the distinction between conservative Catholics and conservative Protestants has blurred, and many are primed to defend anything which fits into this "religious freedom vs liberals" framework.

Basically, the reason non-Catholic religious institutions oppose contraception to the degree that they now do is just that they have defined themselves in opposition to liberals and are happy to take any excuse to oppose liberal policy. When conditions were right, Catholic opposition to contraception spread rapidly through the religious right, because "religious freedom" has now become its own thing, divorced of its origins as a defense of racism, in something like the way "states' rights" has. Even Catholic opposition looks like this to some extent, as evidenced by existing insurance policies that cover contraception. This is basically all culture war; they're against it because Obama's for it, and many people have done a lot of hard work since ~1980 to convince them that the whole reason Obama's for it is to punish them.

Edit: This is why it's weird that media organizations are so "surprised" that Hispanics turn out to be "liberal" on things like abortion. They're not liberal on abortion. They just haven't been immersed in culture war rhetoric that conflates Christianity and hardcore social conservatism.

 

[kingkitty]

Barney rip.

 

[Snake]

Barney rip.

The best member of the Bush Administration.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Barney rip.

Wow, this genuinely made me fucking sad, wow.

 

[Oblivion]

Barney rip.

Damn you, I thought for a second you were referring to Barney Frank.


But yeah, sucks that happened. Was definitely the most likable one in the Bush admin.

 

[tranciful]

LOL:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/0...on-liberal-facebook-for-right-wing-knock-off/

Knew this was only a matter of time.

wow

 

[Hitokage]

The religious reason: Thou shalt not spill your seed upon the ground. Back in ancient times people believed sperm held everything needed to make a baby and the woman was just an incubator, ergo wasting sperm was the same as having an abortion. Now we know better but they still maintain this antiquated rule.

The story this comes from doesn't say this is even bad! Onan pulled out in order to avoid having a child in his late brother's name, as levirate marriage would have him do. It was about traditional marriage not semen, and traditional is nothing like the "one man and one woman courting themselves like free-love hippies" that some would have you believe these days.

 

[PhoenixDark]

ATTN Dax
https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/297816808122114048
https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/297817329788657664

 

[Chichikov]

The story this comes from doesn't say this is even bad! Onan pulled out in order to avoid having a child in his late brother's name, as levirate marriage would have him do. It was about traditional marriage not semen, and traditional is nothing like the "one man and one woman courting themselves like free-love hippies" that some would have you believe these days.

It was mostly about refusing god.
In Judaism, if a married man dies without having children, his brother should marry and impregnate the widow.
Onan was instructed by god to impregnate his brother's widow, Onan performed coitus interruptus until god got pissed and performed smiting definitus on his ass.
It should be noted that if the dead wife is butt ugly you can get away from it by letting her to spit on you and hit you with a shoe (no, not making any of that shit, but it's not really practiced anymore).

The masturbation ban comes from the oral torah, you might want to read about the oral torah, but in short, around the 2nd century BC a bunch of people started saying that outside the Torah, god also gave Moses some oral briefings, that he passed in secret from prophet to prophet, and even though we can't show you any of this, it's just as holy as the bible, and only we know about it and you can totally take us at our word.
By the way, this is how the current mainstream Judaism was born, so contemporary orthodox Jews don't really care that it's not mentioned in the bible.

 

[Gotchaye]

The story this comes from doesn't say this is even bad! Onan pulled out in order to avoid having a child in his late brother's name, as levirate marriage would have him do. It was about traditional marriage not semen, and traditional is nothing like the "one man and one woman courting themselves like free-love hippies" that some would have you believe these days.

This as well. Catholic opposition to contraception has historically been much more about Aristotle than about some supposed prohibition in the Bible.

 

[Hitokage]

It was mostly about refusing god.

Oh, sure, but I mean offending god by not honoring his obligations rather than offending god by simply allowing semen to touch ground.

The masturbation ban comes from the oral torah, you might want to read about the oral torah, but in short, around the 2nd century BC a bunch of people started saying that outside the Torah, god also gave Moses some oral briefings, that he passed in secret from prophet to prophet, and even though we can't show you any of this, it's just as holy as the bible, and only we know about it and you can totally take us at our word.
By the way, this is how the current mainstream Judaism was born, so contemporary orthodox Jews don't really care that it's not mentioned in the bible.

Sounds like fun.

 

[The Librarian]

ATTN Dax
https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/297816808122114048
https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/297817329788657664

I saw that. I chuckled, but been there, done that, PhoenicusDarkus.

 

[Chichikov]

Oh, sure, but I mean offending god by not honoring his obligations rather than offending god by simply allowing semen to touch ground.

You are right.
By the way, the whole semen touches the ground breed demons stuff is from the kabbalah, which is a much later development.

Sounds like fun.

Some news show in Israel managed to film one of them a few years ago, but it's harder to find online than clips from the NFL.

 

[Hitokage]

By the way, the whole semen touches the ground breed demons stuff is from the kabbalah, which is a much later development.

You mean I had this power the whole time? I've been doing it wrong.

 

[Chichikov]

You mean I had this power the whole time? I've been doing it wrong.

Actually, "terrorist angles" is probably a better translation than "demons".
Also, every time you masturbate you delay the salvation.
In related news, salvation is not coming, ever.

 

[Oblivion]

ATTN Dax
https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/297816808122114048
https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/297817329788657664

I saw that. I chuckled, but been there, done that, PhoenicusDarkus.

Twitter waaaaaarz!

https://twitter.com/RIFSnobs/status...&iid=am-156194753213483111036702084&nid=6+273

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Twitter waaaaaarz!

https://twitter.com/RIFSnobs/status...&iid=am-156194753213483111036702084&nid=6+273

Huh, I don't get this one.

 

[Jack Remington]

Sam Wang on the great 2010 gerrymander and how we have a Republican House because of it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/the-great-gerrymander-of-2012.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Guileless]

This is actually a lot more complicated. Protestants in the US had no problem with contraception for a very, very long time....

Basically, the reason non-Catholic religious institutions oppose contraception to the degree that they now do is just that they have defined themselves in opposition to liberals and are happy to take any excuse to oppose liberal policy.

Edit: This is why it's weird that media organizations are so "surprised" that Hispanics turn out to be "liberal" on things like abortion. They're not liberal on abortion. They just haven't been immersed in culture war rhetoric that conflates Christianity and hardcore social conservatism.

What "non-catholic religious institutions" oppose contraception on principle? Are there any? I have seen a hardcore Southern Baptist react to a description of catholic-approved Natural Family Planning like its some sort of occult Nazi ritual.

And this article cites a Univision poll finding that Latinos are more pro-life than the general population: http://nbclatino.com/2012/08/24/opinion-can-the-republicans-connect-with-latinos-on-abortion/

 

[Oblivion]

Huh, I don't get this one.

There were reports that Romney's staffers were rewarded bonuses shortly after his little Europe trip where he insulted the British.

edit: also I suck at twitter do I can't find the proper re-tweet, but Josh Marshall did re-tweet that.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Sam Wang on the great 2010 gerrymander and how we have a Republican House because of it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/the-great-gerrymander-of-2012.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

BUT BUT BOTH SIDES DO IT!