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[FyreWulff]

What

We should be a unicameral.

Between the two sides, I'd rather have the Senate than the derp-for-all House. The bigger states can exert their influence economically already.

We'd also no longer have gerrymandering, as Senators have to win their whole state.

 

[Link]

I do find it amusing that Fox is already going outside of the political spectrum to tout a viable candidate for the Republican Party, and even he is a Seventh-day Adventist.

 

[Chichikov]

He's a successful Black Conservative, of course they love him. Can't say I could find a whole lot about him out there (usually a quick google search will tell you everything you need to know about a guy getting hyped up by the media). The guy has written a few books I couldn't be bothered to look up though.

He's that surgeon who decided to go all political on the national prayer breakfast thing.
I don't know if he even has political aspiration, that speech suggested that he does, but I can tell you that much, he's non white, so he gets one shot and one shot only, one fuckup and he's gone.

 

[B-Dubs]

He's that surgeon who decided to go all political on the national prayer breakfast thing.
I don't know if he even has political aspiration, that speech suggested that he does, but I can tell you that much, he's non white, so he gets one shot and one shot only, one fuckup and he's gone.

Oh man he's that guy? I heard about it, can't say I know the whole story though. That explains why they're propping him up.

 

[reilo]

Watching Jamie Weinstein on Real Time was like reading BigSicily posts. The false equivalencies... sheesh.

 

[Oblivion]

Watching Jamie Weinstein on Real Time was like reading BigSicily posts. The false equivalencies... sheesh.

He avoided calling Obama a socialist dictator so I guess that's something.

 

[reilo]

He avoided calling Obama a socialist dictator so I guess that's something.

Instead he said he was demonizing business and killing jobs. It's all in how you phrase things!

 

[Byakuya769]

I think this might be thread worthy

"You know what we should use as a model for compromise today?
The 3/5's "compromise""
-President of Emory University

http://www.emory.edu/EMORY_MAGAZINE/issues/2013/winter/register/president.html



I just can't even comprehend someone writing this in the 21st century. Arguing over how best to dehumanize blacks is a model compromise.

Perfect.

so Hannity and Fox seem to be anointing Ben Carson as their savior. Don't know much about him. what does poligaf think of him ?

Ben Carson is the Exceptional Negro.

 

[sc0la]

willing to torpedo anything and everything when they don't get their way

getting their way has nothing to do with it. How many times has Obama proposed essentially a republican idea only to have them flip their shit? It has everything to do with opposing Obama first and foremost and democrats generally.

If Obama was smart he would propose loosening gun regulations. We'd have republicans proposing an AWB in less than a week.

 

[Byakuya769]

getting their way has nothing to do with it. How many times has Obama proposed essentially a republican idea only to have them flip their shit? It has everything to do with opposing Obama first and foremost and democrats generally.

If Obama was smart he would propose loosening gun regulations. We'd have republicans proposing an AWB in less than a week.

Give them some credit. They would call the policy socialist and argue for the government to hand out firearms to all Real Americans. More guns, means more safety.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I saw that Dr. Ben Carson speech. I laughed at all his self-promotion for his book and scholarship. Then, when he said something about how much education has declined in this country, because he saw this "exit exam" for the sixth grade, and he doesn't think many adults could pass it today, I thought, "oh shit, could he really have--" and then used Amazon's Search Inside This Book on his new book for "exit exam".

Sure enough, he reprinted a few of the questions from the 1895 exam hoax.

The guy is a neurosurgeon, but when it comes to political thought he's Sarah Palin. He literally said that we have to do something about this debt-- because it would take over five hundred years to count to 16,000,000,000,000. That was his argument against the debt, that it was a big number.

He is a lot more personable than Marco Rubio, and an effective speaker in a non-extemporaneous setting. He's also got zero political experience, would get absolutely demolished in a debate, and my gut feeling is that he probably can't handle interviews.

 

[B-Dubs]

I saw that Dr. Ben Carson speech. I laughed at all his self-promotion for his book and scholarship. Then, when he said something about how much education has declined in this country, because he saw this "exit exam" for the sixth grade, and he doesn't think many adults could pass it today, I thought, "oh shit, could he really have--" and then used Amazon's Search Inside This Book on his new book for "exit exam".

Sure enough, he reprinted a few of the questions from the 1895 exam hoax.

The guy is a neurosurgeon, but when it comes to political thought he's Sarah Palin. He literally said that we have to do something about this debt-- because it would take over five hundred years to count to 16,000,000,000,000. That was his argument against the debt, that it was a big number.

He is a lot more personable than Marco Rubio, and an effective speaker in a non-extemporaneous setting. He's also got zero political experience, would get absolutely demolished in a debate, and my gut feeling is that he probably can't handle interviews.

So basically Herman Cain with a better job.

 

[Jooney]

Instead he said he was demonizing business and killing jobs. It's all in how you phrase things!

I just watched the episode. I was embarrassed for him.

If the President says that the people who have gained the most from this economy pay their fair share in taxes, it's demonizing success.

However if you call the President a socialist, or label his base as takers and moochers, well, that's just Real Talk.

 

[Drakeon]

We should be a unicameral.

Between the two sides, I'd rather have the Senate than the derp-for-all House. The bigger states can exert their influence economically already.

We'd also no longer have gerrymandering, as Senators have to win their whole state.

I'd rather we tackle gerrymandering and then rely on the House, over the Senate. Remember what it was like in 2008-2010? When the Senate was the sole reason we didn't get a lot more progressive legislation passed?

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'd rather we tackle gerrymandering and then rely on the House, over the Senate. Remember what it was like in 2008-2010? When the Senate was the sole reason we didn't get a lot more progressive legislation passed?

That had more to do with the filibuster. If we go Fyre's route, the Senate should be a 51 vote majority body for everything. The representation is already fucked up with the distribution of senators.

 

[fallagin]

But can we really trust the BLS? I heard their cooking their cards...

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm reading a book from the 80's about why the debt isn't a problem. It literally the same damn arguments 20 years ago! Burdens, inflation, moral obligations, out of control spending, etc. The author even mentions fights over Kennedy's deficit spending plan being similar. This stuff never dies. The only good thing I guess is that the cuts never go into effect.

 

[Chichikov]

But can we really trust the BLS? I heard their cooking their cards...

You can't spell BLS without BS, open you eyes sheeple!!!!!

 

[Jooney]

If Congress was to be unicameral then House over Senate, please. The House at least is representative of the people, taking into account the proportionality of where people live, and is a better encapsulation of the diversity of the American people. Gerrymandering is a big problems but can be fixed by outsourcing the redistricting function to an independent commission.

The senate, with its filibuster, anonymous holds, and two senators per state is a less democratic model, especially the way it works in practice now.

EDIT:

I'm reading a book from the 80's about why the debt isn't a problem. It literally the same damn arguments 20 years ago! Burdens, inflation, moral obligations, out of control spending, etc. The author even mentions fights over Kennedy's deficit spending plan being similar. This stuff never dies. The only good thing I guess is that the cuts never go into effect.

The debt is a political whacking tool used by those out of power to get back into power. Nothing more.

As evidence, you only really need to look back as far as the election. For all the song-and-dance the republicans have made about the debt, they were willing to back a man who who would have added $7T to the deficit in the next 10 years ($5T in tax cuts, $2T in defence spending, with no specification on how it will be paid for), and to tout the credentials of a VP whose budget wouldn't have balanced till 2040.

 

[sc0la]

Give them some credit. They would call the policy socialist and argue for the government to hand out firearms to all Real Americans. More guns, means more safety.

Exactly. Obama should propose distributing guns to non felons over the age of 18.

Total gun ban would be the only thing acceptable.

That's the problem with their position. Obama won't propose something he opposes, and they oppose anything he proposes. The only likely outcome is nothing and the damage if nothing's wake. Which they are obviously comfortable.

 

[Wilsongt]

I saw that Dr. Ben Carson speech. I laughed at all his self-promotion for his book and scholarship. Then, when he said something about how much education has declined in this country, because he saw this "exit exam" for the sixth grade, and he doesn't think many adults could pass it today, I thought, "oh shit, could he really have--" and then used Amazon's Search Inside This Book on his new book for "exit exam".

Sure enough, he reprinted a few of the questions from the 1895 exam hoax.

The guy is a neurosurgeon, but when it comes to political thought he's Sarah Palin. He literally said that we have to do something about this debt-- because it would take over five hundred years to count to 16,000,000,000,000. That was his argument against the debt, that it was a big number.

He is a lot more personable than Marco Rubio, and an effective speaker in a non-extemporaneous setting. He's also got zero political experience, would get absolutely demolished in a debate, and my gut feeling is that he probably can't handle interviews.

Oh that Ben Carson?

I had to read his "Gifted Hands" book in high school. I didn't realize he was a nut.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Exactly. Obama should propose distributing guns to non felons over the age of 18.

Total gun ban would be the only thing acceptable.

That's the problem with their position. Obama won't propose something he opposes, and they oppose anything he proposes. The only likely outcome is nothing and the damage if nothing's wake. Which they are obviously comfortable.

He should have an affirmative action gun program to give the great american tradition of gun ownership to underprivileged intercity kids. Also a gun for every nationalized citizen.

Oh that Ben Carson?

I had to read his "Gifted Hands" book in high school. I didn't realize he was a nut.

I don't really understand how doctors can be so religious. I mean I don't think they need to be atheistic but a little more skeptical? my doctor was talking to me one time and I asked a question and he said "I'm not sure, that's just the way god designed it."

 

[TheLaughingStock]

As evidence, you only really need to look back as far as the election. For all the song-and-dance the republicans have made about the debt, they were willing to back a man who who would have added $7T to the deficit in the next 10 years ($5T in tax cuts, $2T in defence spending, with no specification on how it will be paid for), and to tout the credentials of a VP whose budget wouldn't have balanced till 2040.

I don't think there's an issue with the fact they want to spend money and cut taxes, but rather where that's going. It's not dramatically to reduce unemployment or give a disproportionately beneficial tax cut to the average poor American. The GAO estimated we lost $22 trillion overall if what I read was accurate so were going to need more unprecedented action. Balancing the budget or running surpluses shouldn't even be a policy goal.

 

[B-Dubs]

He should have an affirmative action gun program to give the great american tradition of gun ownership to underprivileged intercity kids. Also a gun for every nationalized citizen.



I don't really understand how doctors can be so religious. I mean I don't think they need to be atheistic but a little more skeptical? my doctor was talking to me one time and I asked a question and he said "I'm not sure, that's just the way god designed it."

It's a hard profession. You try being surrounded by death most days and see how religious you get. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just I can see why it would be that way. Especially with surgeons and all. No atheists in foxholes and all. Got to deal with it all somehow, I figure it's either god or alcoholism.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Reasonable Question: Is Muslim Killing/Drone Piloting John Brennan a secret Muslim Saudi spy set to infiltrate America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XtGoqKskM2M

Its sad the media keeps cover for Obummer and covers up stories like this

(At least you can't say its all racists anymore. White people can be muslims now!)

 

[NYCmetsfan]

It's a hard profession. You try being surrounded by death most days and see how religious you get. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just I can see why it would be that way. Especially with surgeons and all. No atheists in foxholes and all. Got to deal with it all somehow, I figure it's either god or alcoholism.

I have no doubt and I have no problem with them believing in god. but evolution denying right wing nuts seems like it would get weeded out in med school and science classes.

 

[B-Dubs]

I have no doubt and I have no problem with them believing in god. but evolution denying right wing nuts seems like it would get weeded out in med school and science classes.

So long as they actually know they theory and can apply it they'll pass the class. I used to student teach a biology class, teacher didn't give a shit about religious beliefs and said that so long as they learned the material she didn't give a shit what they believed.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So long as they actually know they theory and can apply it they'll pass the class. I used to student teach a biology class, teacher didn't give a shit about religious beliefs and said that so long as they learned the material she didn't give a shit what they believed.

As it should be.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So long as they actually know they theory and can apply it they'll pass the class. I used to student teach a biology class, teacher didn't give a shit about religious beliefs and said that so long as they learned the material she didn't give a shit what they believed.

My point is how can they learn the stuff, see it works, then go on thinking humans rode dinosaurs?

 

[Gotchaye]

My point is how can they learn the stuff, see it works, then go on thinking humans rode dinosaurs?

Two main reasons, I think. First, very little of a medical curriculum actually poses a direct challenge to even really crazy forms of creationism. Doctors are more likely to be crazy than biologists for probably the same reasons that engineers are more likely to be crazy than physicists; one doesn't have to take fundamental science very seriously to be quite successful at applied science.

Second, whatever one thinks of the distinction between methodological and philosophical naturalism that's often stressed in political disputes involving science and religion, the framing has been pretty successful at allowing scientific and religious beliefs to coexist. It's easy to dismiss an uncomfortable scientific finding as merely what science says without assuming that science is the best or only way to know what's true.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Haven't posted in this thread for probably over 6 months, but does anyone here actually work in politics? I think it'd be cool to work for a politician in Washington being an assistant or researcher, though I'm sure most of you will probably say start out volunteering.

If anyone does work in politics, PM me.


Thanks

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Two main reasons, I think. First, very little of a medical curriculum actually poses a direct challenge to even really crazy forms of creationism. Doctors are more likely to be crazy than biologists for probably the same reasons that engineers are more likely to be crazy than physicists; one doesn't have to take fundamental science very seriously to be quite successful at applied science.

Second, whatever one thinks of the distinction between methodological and philosophical naturalism that's often stressed in political disputes involving science and religion, the framing has been pretty successful at allowing scientific and religious beliefs to coexist. It's easy to dismiss an uncomfortable scientific finding as merely what science says without assuming that science is the best or only way to know what's true.

This is so true...I switched from a fundamental science major to an engineering major and the differences were immediately clear. A much higher percentage of the engineering profs/students are religious than those in the sciences...

 

[Hitokage]

This is so true...I switched from a fundamental science major to an engineering major and the differences were immediately clear. A much higher percentage of the engineering profs/students are religious than those in the sciences...

Engineering is inherently concerned with what can be manipulated and designed. It's no surprise this fits comfortably with a worldview that the world and life itself was designed and directly shaped.

Too bad things aren't that simple.

 

[Link]

No one talking about this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/02/16/rubio-immigration-reform_n_2703722.html?icid=hp_front_top_art

Rubio put out a press release opposing Obama's immigration reform plan just hours after the first draft was made available.

Guess now that he's already ruined his chances of a presidential run, he figures he doesn't need to pretend to care about immigration reform anymore.

 

[Gotchaye]

No one talking about this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/02/16/rubio-immigration-reform_n_2703722.html?icid=hp_front_top_art

Rubio put out a press release opposing Obama's immigration reform plan just hours after the first draft was made available.

Guess now that he's already ruined his chances of a presidential run, he figures he doesn't need to pretend to care about immigration reform anymore.

Neat. I'm surprised that he's so direct about it. The Republicans should really want to avoid a big fight over immigration reform; they should just pass what the Democrats propose with minor tweaks and then hope that takes the issue off the table for the next few elections. If they start a big fight over border security, they're going to start saying a whole lot of things that they'll regret in the morning when the polling comes in. The longer the fight, the madder their base will be at their inevitable "caving" and the less credit they'll get with Hispanics for doing this because they genuinely care.

Seems to me that the only reason for the Democrats to try hard to seek a compromise here is just that they care more about immigration reform than about 2014. While that'd be a pleasant surprise from a bunch of politicians, surely the smart money's on Democrats dragging this out as long as possible without looking downright obstructionist.

 

[TacticalFox88]

No one talking about this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/02/16/rubio-immigration-reform_n_2703722.html?icid=hp_front_top_art

Rubio put out a press release opposing Obama's immigration reform plan just hours after the first draft was made available.

Guess now that he's already ruined his chances of a presidential run, he figures he doesn't need to pretend to care about immigration reform anymore.

And with that, the chances of us seeing Rubio not being primarie'd are dashing away, ever so softly

 

[Hitokage]

Oh yeah, with regard to why Evolution and such don't take, a lot of it is because the background required to really understand how and why it works is pretty involved and American schools really don't do a good job at teaching it. Too many people only have an A to Z Book of Animals background in Biology and are entirely unaware of just how many different forms of life exist on this planet, what they do and look like compared to each other, where they are with respect to each other, and how they interact not only with other life but their habitat itself. Our collective ignorance of that last point, Ecology, also damages our policy in multiple environmental matters, even allowing some to become highly politicized.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I suppose Rubio is shoring up the right flank but it's still a puzzling decision. The WH plan (which is a back up plan in case congress fails to act) seems quite sparse and half baked, but that tends to be the case with first drafts of anything; still overall it mirrors a lot of the basic stuff both sides claim to support. Considering that you'd think Rubio would say something like "there are things I like but I have major concerns that it isn't tough enough on the border."

I'd be surprised if Rubio votes for any immigration bill tbh. He probably won't get his "trigger" - or at least not 100% of it. And I think he's just looking for an excuse to blow up talks, assuming it will kill the entire process. I think McCain and others will keep working and ultimately pass something, without him.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I suppose Rubio is shoring up the right flank but it's still a puzzling decision. The WH plan (which is a back up plan in case congress fails to act) seems quite sparse and half baked, but that tends to be the case with first drafts of anything; still overall it mirrors a lot of the basic stuff both sides claim to support. Considering that you'd think Rubio would say something like "there are things I like but I have major concerns that it isn't tough enough on the border."

I'd be surprised if Rubio votes for any immigration bill tbh. He probably won't get his "trigger" - or at least not 100% of it. And I think he's just looking for an excuse to blow up talks, assuming it will kill the entire process. I think McCain and others will keep working and ultimately pass something, without him.

I can see this. Rubio will counter with something the president can't get behind or something without specifics that can't actually be voted on. So Rubio can pretend he cares but have an excuse for not voting for the final bill (The thing is latinos are going to know this isn't in good faith and reject him taking any credit or claiming he cared, they'll be pissed) He needs to decide does he care more about Hispanics and their vote or the often racist/immigrant fearful republican base? You can't win with both. The thing I don't understand is if the republican party as a whole goes for it nobody but a nobody could flank him from the right. On that. I actually don't think its that big of an issue among primary voters. (Especially in florida)

This crap is annoying as hell because its not like they even have plans they have vauge "ideas" they never specifically outline (because they'd literally be Obama's plan or they know people would not vote for them). Its literally just a party of "no," its frustrating time and time again. There is no negociating partiner because they'll just move the goal posts.


I say the senate starts trying to bring bills with stuff Obama talked about in his SOTU (the popular stuff like pre-k, minimum wage, certain popular gun measures) so going into 2014 he can say the senate is trying to vote on proposals but they're being blocked by republicans. Even if they don't get past cloture its a chance to educate the public on the filibuster maybe leading to more public pressure for its reform/elimination. Outside of people like us who follow politics the fillibuster isn't actually know. When they hear a vote failed they think it failed 49-51 not 58-40.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I suppose Rubio is shoring up the right flank but it's still a puzzling decision. The WH plan (which is a back up plan in case congress fails to act) seems quite sparse and half baked, but that tends to be the case with first drafts of anything; still overall it mirrors a lot of the basic stuff both sides claim to support. Considering that you'd think Rubio would say something like "there are things I like but I have major concerns that it isn't tough enough on the border."

I'd be surprised if Rubio votes for any immigration bill tbh. He probably won't get his "trigger" - or at least not 100% of it. And I think he's just looking for an excuse to blow up talks, assuming it will kill the entire process. I think McCain and others will keep working and ultimately pass something, without him.

I think he'll be to immigration reform what Olympia Snowe was to healthcare. Or at least, try to be, given all his posturing. (And I do think it's all posturing.)

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think he'll be to immigration reform what Olympia Snowe was to healthcare. Or at least, try to be, given all his posturing. (And I do think it's all posturing.)

True and also Rubio is walking a tight political role that Snowe didn't have to worry about: he's clearly running for president. As APKmetsfan said he has to decide which group is more important, the conservative base or the Hispanic vote; so far he has chosen the conservative base. If he can get a trigger on border security, he can effectively tell Hispanics he passed immigration reform while assuring conservatives said reform doesn't do shit for years to come. Without that trigger he has no cover, and will have to abort in order to save his presidential ambitions.

It sounds like the border will be beefed up no matter which bill passes, so Rubio's desperation for his trigger is rather transparent; it's all or nothing for him. Ultimately I think he's miscalculating. If he wants to go on a media tour crying about how mean ole Obama ruined immigration reform he's fucked; Hispanics will support Obama regardless of whether a bill is passed or not, and republicans WILL get blamed if things go sour.

And there's also the McCain factor. I think he genuinely wants to get this done and doesn't have to worry about an upcoming election. So until he walks from the table I think things will be fine; Rubio seems to think if he walks everyone walks, and I don't think that's the case.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Regardless of what the final outcome of Immigration reform is, it's highly probable Dems come out on top regardless if the GOP votes or doesn't at all. Any reform that's passed the Dems will get credit, as Obama is the one signing it. Anything that doesn't get done will be blamed on the GOP as polls have indicated.

 

[PhoenixDark]

My biggest question is: if immigration reform fails, will Hispanics come out in force to punish the GOP in 2014, or will they be disgusted with the process and stay home. They won't blame Obama (outside of that one reporter on Telemundo who continues to harp on Obama "breaking" his promise, as if Obama alone was responsible for immigration's fate in the first term), but perhaps they'll give up on him?

 

[TacticalFox88]

My biggest question is: if immigration reform fails, will Hispanics come out in force to punish the GOP in 2014, or will they be disgusted with the process and stay home. They won't blame Obama (outside of that one reporter on Telemundo who continues to harp on Obama "breaking" his promise, as if Obama alone was responsible for immigration's fate in the first term), but perhaps they'll give up on him?

That depends entirely on how the Dems message the failure and the reasons why and the campaigns of the various Senators and House Democrats urging people and minorities to vote in a mid-term.

Hopefully Obama's re-election and the exposure of the 2010 GOP redistricting woke them the fuck up to the reality of the situation they're in, but you never know.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

So basically Herman Cain with a better job.

A little more deserving of any limelight: Carson is the first surgeon to separate conjoined twins. (Yes, I too have read Gifted Hands.) So weird to see him turn up in the world of political screed. It's like watching a figure skater fall, especially the evolution denial.

 

[Clevinger]

They won't blame Obama (outside of that one reporter on Telemundo who continues to harp on Obama "breaking" his promise, as if Obama alone was responsible for immigration's fate in the first term

You thinking of Jorge Ramos? If so, he's at Univision. And he kind of sucks. Back when Rubio was peddling his Dream Act lite, Jorge interviewed him and tried to play hardball and Rubio ran circles around his ass in Spanish. It was pathetic.

 

[Jooney]

I don't know much about Dr Carson's specific political views, but isn't his appeal to conservatives his hard work / sacrifice ethos that has made him successful?

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I don't know much about Dr Carson's specific political views, but isn't his appeal to conservatives his hard work / sacrifice ethos that has made him successful?

His appeal is that he is a successful black (European here, please don't kill me, I forget what the appropriate word in this scenario would be...) man who criticized Obama to his face.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I don't know much about Dr Carson's specific political views, but isn't his appeal to conservatives his hard work / sacrifice ethos that has made him successful?

He's proof that each and every black kid with a poor single mother can go to Yale and medical school, therefore any who don't are lazy and undeserving of public assistance. But more importantly, he will agree with you if you say that.

 

[Mrs. Manky]

He's proof that each and every black kid with a poor single mother can go to Yale and medical school, therefore any who don't are lazy and undeserving of public assistance. But more importantly, he will agree with you if you say that.

So, in the end, his criticism of President Obama is just part of the Harvard/Yale rivalry.