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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Rocket Scientist said:
Why hasn't the Senate passed a bill though? Filibuster? This whole Hur Hur that was last year different ballgame bruh sounds really childish.
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Except its not, the bill cannot originate in the senate, the constitution says they have to originate in the House. so the senate cannot pass anything this congress until the house does.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
quadriplegicjon said:
Except its not, the bill cannot originate in the senate, the constitution says they have to originate in the House. so the senate cannot pass anything this congress until the house does.
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Yes, someone mentioned that before, but what about last session, did the Senate have a bill to vote on even if there was no chance of passing? Why would they give republicans the cover of 'we passed two bills!' and not cover their own asses. Even if from what I read those bills were bullshit. One didn't specified replacement cuts and the other was so late that it didn't matter whether it passed or not it wouldn't mean anything. They literally just voted for show.

Edit: the senate can only vote in the exact bill the house passed? I thought they could modify things and then have to send it back. That wasn't possible? It was vote for the house bill (lol) or nothing?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I'm surprised Cantor hasn't caved yet. Virginia will get slammed by sequestration...

Obama doesn't seem interested in caving, although obviously that may change. Right now it seems like he's the calmest person at the table while the GOP implodes. Still it's hard to see tax revenue passing the House...
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Tamanon said:
I'm not entirely sure. Obama doesn't have to run again, now anything going on directly impacts the 2014 elections instead.....
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Luckily the emphasis in 2014 would be on the House leadership moreso than the President.

It won't be as easy to attack Obama and hide behind Romney like they could last year.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
PhoenixDark said:
I'm surprised Cantor hasn't caved yet. Virginia will get slammed by sequestration...

Obama doesn't seem interested in caving, although obviously that may change. Right now it seems like he's the calmest person at the table while the GOP implodes. Still it's hard to see tax revenue passing the House...
Click to expand...

All Boehner really needs to do is put it up for a vote and make sure a few of his guys flip and vote for it, which they will since not everyone in his party is insane and wants to shoot themselves and the economy in the face. Odds are Obama realizes this, he just needs to wait for Boehner to realize how this whole thing is going to go down.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Tamanon said:
I'm not entirely sure. Obama doesn't have to run again, now anything going on directly impacts the 2014 elections instead.....
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Sure, Obama doesn't have to run again, but do you think the Reps would forgo any opportunity to hurt Obama's legacy? A double dip recession would take care of that quite nicely, I would think. Furthermore, they'll also use it as a tool against Hillary ("you saw what that socialist did to the economy! Now you want ANOTHER one to take the reins?!")
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Oblivion said:
Republicans will be gladly willing to suffer through some mild pain if it means it hurts Obama at some point.
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This gamble really seems stupid to me.

For one they hated the sequester for a long time. Now they're trying to own it.

FUCK YEAH REDUCE SPENDING. SURE WE DON'T LIKE THE APPROACH BUT WHATEVER IT'S STILL BETTER THAN NOTHING.

And when the effects hit the economy what will happen? They owned it so they will suffer its consequences. Obama is not up for election in 2014...

Sure, Obama doesn't have to run again, but do you think the Reps would forgo any opportunity to hurt Obama's legacy? A double dip recession would take care of that quite nicely, I would think. Furthermore, they'll also use it as a tool against Hillary ("you saw what that socialist did to the economy! Now you want ANOTHER one to take the reins?!")
Click to expand...

But they tried this in 2012 and it didn't make a dent. At all. They lost the election despite a poor economy. An the sequester probably won't hurt more than a little bit. It'll hurt but it won't put us in a recession like the fiscal cliff would have.

This is why I don't get their strategy at all. They can't win this fight. The public at large sees them as extreme, uncompromising, and obstructionist. By reinforcing that they make it worse.

edit: And let's say we did go into a recession. The GOP has owned the sequester now. what will their argument be? That they cut spending and it led to a recession which they'd never admit? Or will they try to claim too much spending still? It can't resonate because it will look like nonsense to the public because it is.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Oblivion said:
Sure, Obama doesn't have to run again, but do you think the Reps would forgo any opportunity to hurt Obama's legacy? A double dip recession would take care of that quite nicely, I would think. Furthermore, they'll also use it as a tool against Hillary ("you saw what that socialist did to the economy! Now you want ANOTHER one to take the reins?!")
Click to expand...

That would only work if they don't get the blame for it, which they will. That's why they're constantly trying to blame Obama for the sequester, people know it's congress's fault. I mean the GOP just won't shut up about cutting spending and now this thing comes up that cuts spending on a massive level. Even if people don't consciously recognize it, they'll put the puzzle pieces together in their subconscious. There is no way Obama gets blamed for it.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
B-Dubs said:
All Boehner really needs to do is put it up for a vote and make sure a few of his guys flip and vote for it, which they will since not everyone in his party is insane and wants to shoot themselves and the economy in the face. Odds are Obama realizes this, he just needs to wait for Boehner to realize how this whole thing is going to go down.
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Let's be honest.

Every major initiative that's going to be passed under Boehner's leadership (and signed by Obama) is going to be 190+ Democrats with just enough Republicans to break the majority.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'm surprised Cantor hasn't caved yet. Virginia will get slammed by sequestration...

Obama doesn't seem interested in caving, although obviously that may change. Right now it seems like he's the calmest person at the table while the GOP implodes. Still it's hard to see tax revenue passing the House...
Click to expand...
Don't need tax revenue. Just end the sequestration. Period. Say it was a mistake. He'll blame Obama for being "reckless" or something. I doubt he would care if it took care of the issue.

Save revenue for comprehensive tax reform.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
sc0la said:
Don't need tax revenue. Just end the sequestration. Period. Say it was a mistake. He'll blame Obama for being "reckless" or something. I doubt he would care if it took care of the issue.

Save revenue for comprehensive tax reform.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the Tea Party guys want the sequester to go through. It's just pure insanity. It's like debating with a guy holding a gun to his own head.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
sc0la said:
Don't need tax revenue. Just end the sequestration. Period. Say it was a mistake. He'll blame Obama for being "reckless" or something. I doubt he would care if it took care of the issue.

Save revenue for comprehensive tax reform.
Click to expand...
But then how will Obama gut Social Security and Medicare?
 
G

gcubed

Member
Dem leadership already said that without revenue there is no combination of spending cuts that are better to them than the sequester. So a different spending cut bill is DOA
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
GOP: You need to propose a budget with a way to deal with the sequester. Why won't you do that?

Obama: I have. You can find it on the white house website or in the budget I directly sent you and it includes entitlement reform

GOP: We refuse to take any revenue increases, we already did that. We will not budge.

Obama: The American people want a mix of cuts and revenues and we must put a plan to do that together, much like the one I made.

GOP: We don't care. We like the sequester now over revenue increases on the wealthy. Hell yeah less spending!

Obama: This will hurt vital programs and the economy. We need to hash out a proper balance here.

GOP: Nope, not a chance. Either cut what we want or nothing will get done.

Obama: This is unreasonable and I will take your obstructionism to the American Public.

GOP: WTF!? Why won't Obama lead us? What we need is strong leadership and Obama just won't provide it. Instead he is running around telling the country the truth about what we're doing.

Obama: :facepalm


The GOP argument right now is that Obama can't/won't lead. As if you can lead over them. It's so silly.

Just read the WaPo editorial: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...f64-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.html?hpid=z2

translation: GOP is wrong and Obama is right but Obama won't tell us what he's doing is right enough and thus he isn't leading so this is all his fault.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
B-Dubs said:
All Boehner really needs to do is put it up for a vote and make sure a few of his guys flip and vote for it, which they will since not everyone in his party is insane and wants to shoot themselves and the economy in the face. Odds are Obama realizes this, he just needs to wait for Boehner to realize how this whole thing is going to go down.
Click to expand...

This also explains in part why Obama is all in on the outside in strategy. No point in negotiating with someone who can't deliver their caucus. So just keep applying pressure to make the most/ hasten the arrival of the inevitable endgame.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
High unemployment has substantial costs, including not only the hardship faced by the unemployed and their families, but also the harm done to the vitality and productive potential of our economy as a whole. Lengthy periods of unemployment and underemployment can erode workers’ skills and attachment to the labor force or prevent young people from gaining skills and experience in the first place—developments that could significantly reduce their productivity and earnings in the longer term. The loss of output and earnings associated with high unemployment also reduces government revenues and increases spending, thereby leading to larger deficits and higher levels of debt.
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Bernanke says something reasonable oh shit.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Gruco said:
This also explains in part why Obama is all in on the outside in strategy. No point in negotiating with someone who can't deliver their caucus. So just keep applying pressure to make the most/ hasten the arrival of the inevitable endgame.
Click to expand...

TPM made the observation that Obama is not under political pressure now, since it's his second term. He's not facing reelection. So he's able to play a longer game than Boehner and the GOP. I admit it's an obvious dynamic, but one that totally escaped me.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
GhaleonEB said:
TPM made the observation that Obama is not under political pressure now, since it's his second term. He's not facing reelection. So he's able to play a longer game than Boehner and the GOP. I admit it's an obvious dynamic, but one that totally escaped me.
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Which makes his readiness to give away SS and Medicare cuts at the beginning of the year so puzzling.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Clevinger said:
Which makes his readiness to give away SS and Medicare cuts at the beginning of the year so puzzling.
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It was probably so he'd look like he was trying to work with the GOP. That way they take all the blame when nothing happens. I seriously doubt he would have gone through with it. Gotta make it look good for the camera and whatnot.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Clevinger said:
Which makes his readiness to give away SS and Medicare cuts at the beginning of the year so puzzling.
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It's not puzzling. He wants a big, "serious" bipartisan deficit reduction plan to check off his list of accomplishments; I see no policy motive in chained CPI or raising the Medicare eligibility age, both of which he has given up at various points yet don't save much of any money. This is like the (bad) Reagan/Tipper O'Neil social security "fix" that Obama, David Brooks, and Beltway folks champion to this day; none can tell you what it did, they just know it was big and important and most importantly bipartisan.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Is anyone watching Hannity? I'm hearing from the twitters that Keith Ellison is tearing shit up.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Oblivion said:
Is anyone watching Hannity? I'm hearing from the twitters that Keith Ellison is tearing shit up.
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I saw him on Minnesota Almanac talking about his trip to Somalia (Minnesota has a HUGE Somali population), and the dude really knows his stuff.

No idea why anyone would want to go on Hannity and will wait for clips if he does actually own in the clips. Yea, from the written summary it just sounds like a bunch of pointless angry ranting. I hate that shit. Stick to PBS Ellison. Youre better than FOX
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Lol I like how Hannity says he's a registered conservative so he can't possibly be called a republican. Gee I wonder what party he voted for in the last four elections.

Keith was pretty juvenile on Hannity's show but I guess he was just giving it the respect it deserved.
 
S

Synth_floyd

Banned
Ellison complains that Hannity is lying to the "American public." The only people who watch Hannity are ring wing nuts and hardcore conservatives. Hannity is giving these people what they want: an uncritical affirmation of their worldview. Ellison is just wasting his time. All these shows are the same. They tell people what they want to hear.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
kingkitty said:
Lol I like how Hannity says he's a registered conservative so he can't possibly be called a republican. Gee I wonder what party he voted for in the last four elections.

Keith was pretty juvenile on Hannity's show but I guess he was just giving it the respect it deserved.
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I don't think he was juvenile at all. Keith just telling it like it is. It was glorious.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Synth_floyd said:
Ellison complains that Hannity is lying to the "American public." The only people who watch Hannity are ring wing nuts and hardcore conservatives. Hannity is giving these people what they want: an uncritical affirmation of their worldview. Ellison is just wasting his time. All these shows are the same. They tell people what they want to hear.
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It's not any less of a lie just because the recipient prefers it to the truth.

Ellison's a good man.

NRA loses their first battle of the political cycle. I don't think investing in a Chicago based congressional district was a good way to spend their money.
 
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