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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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I really don't think so. They'll just continue to sabotage the economy and any social progress in the hopes that everyone will just blame it on Obama and vote Republican in 2016. If they didn't think moderation was the right move after this election, what makes you think it will be any different in 2014?

It does benefit GOP to hamstring every economic progress in the country so they can say "see? 8 years of bad economy. vote for Christie!" But like gcubed mentioned there has been fits and spurts to moderate and become a party that can win elections rather than just be a party by and for old white men. They ultimately did renege on Norquist's tax pledge, which was unthinkable in 2011. Hispanic community is here to stay and they realized that calling people illegals and talking about electric fences with moats and sharks has done fuck all to win back Hispanic votes. There's no way they can win elections without moderating their stances.
 
I just don't think its useful to say "democracy isn't doing its job" when what is really meant is "democracy isn't doing what I want" or "democracy isn't living up to this hypothetical idea"
Not exactly. This thread has been full of polls showing what the people want and how politicians are not making those things happen. In my own country the same thing is the case. Other countries I'm sure have the same examples. It's not a hypothetical idea, it is the very definition of democracy that it's not living up to.

For Dax:

Only a dictator could bring true democracy.
Here's one of the articles on it

They're accounting for an across the board swing. I'm not doubting a concentrated push could do some damage, but considering the margin of victory in 06 would have barely been enough to take the house by 5 seats with this level of gerrymandering, I'm not going to hold my breath. Odd year turnouts are worse for democrats, and I just don't think people are quite fired up enough against Republicans to actually boot them out.

I predict a pretty good win for Dems, though. Probably 5 points across the board, but I just don't see them hitting 7+. I hope I'm wrong.
Thanks for the link. I agree it is a very long shot and I'll also admit that I only wrote my initial post because thinking about it gave me a boner. I am sorry PoliGAF. Like you said though, dems could win pretty good. It's not delusional to think they're going to gain ground and possibly substantial ground.
 

pigeon

Banned
I really don't think so. They'll just continue to sabotage the economy and any social progress in the hopes that everyone will just blame it on Obama and vote Republican in 2016. If they didn't think moderation was the right move after this election, what makes you think it will be any different in 2014?

Kind of the point is that the GOP is not monolithic. There are clearly some people who think moderation would be a good idea -- among them, probably, much of the old Republican leadership -- but they're having to deal with the rest of the party. The continued failure of the "be really crazy" approach will only empower them.
 

gcubed

Member
Kind of the point is that the GOP is not monolithic. There are clearly some people who think moderation would be a good idea -- among them, probably, much of the old Republican leadership -- but they're having to deal with the rest of the party. The continued failure of the "be really crazy" approach will only empower them.

you need a small handful of "be really crazy" candidates getting onto the ballot in a safe R district that makes it swing to a D and you'll have a shitstorm on the GOP side, Dem house win or no
 
Watching Client 9. Spitzer was cockey as shit but I'm sad he got taken down. He really did seem to go after wall st. which I think is what is most needed now. They are whats really twisted our economy into the monster it is today with is perverse incentives.

Not exactly. This thread has been full of polls showing what the people want and how politicians are not making those things happen. In my own country the same thing is the case. Other countries I'm sure have the same examples. It's not a hypothetical idea, it is the very definition of democracy that it's not living up to.

People can express a lot of things in polls.

I guess we're differing on how we determine what people want. I think actions speak louder than words.

Also MORE AUSTERITY!

The House GOP’s plan to fund the government cuts appropriation levels this year by $55 billion — which would mean the government gets $33 billion less than in the most recent Republican budget.
 
Jeb Bush challenging Romney's flip flop record

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) told MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Tuesday that he would support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants “if you can craft that in law where you can have a path to citizenship where there isn’t an incentive for people to come illegally” — a position that puts him at odds with his new book, out today from Simon & Schuster.
http://thinkprogress.org/special/20...own-book-hours-after-its-published/?mobile=nc

Well well well
 

Tamanon

Banned
Maybe he wrote the book before realizing how far along immigration reform would be going.

Seems like an odd mistake for an otherwise good politician.
 
So does the Democratic Senate pass the GOP bill to fund the government or do they change it and send it back putting pressure on Boehner to partner with the Dems to pass it?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
So does the Democratic Senate pass the GOP bill to fund the government or do they change it and send it back putting pressure on Boehner to partner with the Dems to pass it?

Why would they pass it with no changes? Boehner's the one in a position where compromise is necessary.
 
The family of Marco McMillian, a 33 year-old openly gay candidate for mayor of Clarksdale, Mississippi released a statement yesterday saying that he was beaten and set on fire before his lifeless body was dumped near a river. Last Thursday, police arrested a 22-year old man who, like McMillian, is African-American and charged him with the mayoral candidate’s murder. Although the motive for the murder remains unknown, the circumstances of the murder suggest a possible anti-gay hate crime. According to the family, “[w]e feel this was not a random act of violence based on the condition of the body when it was found.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...s-beaten-set-on-fire-and-dumped-near-a-river/
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Not exactly. This thread has been full of polls showing what the people want and how politicians are not making those things happen.

But is that true? The public according to polls wants to reduce the deficit, but not touch entitlements or raise taxes on the middle class. That's what we got, albeit in an extended, torturous fashion.
 

KtSlime

Member
But is that true? The public according to polls wants to reduce the deficit, but not touch entitlements or raise taxes on the middle class. That's what we got, albeit in an extended, torturous fashion.

Does it even matter if the people are working from faulty information? It's just another form of control. Whether it is distraction, misinformation, or out right violence these are all means for the oppression of people.

APKmetsfan: I just don't think a peoples unwillingness, or inability to return a government back to their control is a valid sign that the government is working well enough for them. I don't care if they (the majority) are not frustrated, or if they are okay with how it is, or if they are all too doped up (on Fox, God, money, or meth) to even know what is going on, I believe the closer we can get to equality for everyone the better. In some areas over the past 40 years we have made some ground, but we have also neglected some of the hard fought ground and it has been reclaimed by the aristocrats. We must be better at retaining what we gain while making progress, otherwise we will just be wandering.

A single dollar being taken away from education is too much, and it is going to bite us in the ass before we know it.
 
APKmetsfan: I just don't think a peoples unwillingness, or inability to return a government back to their control is a valid sign that the government is working well enough for them. I don't care if they (the majority) are not frustrated, or if they are okay with how it is, or if they are all too doped up (on Fox, God, money, or meth) to even know what is going on, I believe the closer we can get to equality for everyone the better. In some areas over the past 40 years we have made some ground, but we have also neglected some of the hard fought ground and it has been reclaimed by the aristocrats. We must be better at retaining what we gain while making progress, otherwise we will just be wandering.

I don't mean to say its "working for them" its just that they don't have a problem with it. They're condoning it.
 
This book is free today

It's Fixing the Debt without Breaking America: Austerity, the Trillion Dollar Coin, and Ending Debt Ceiling, Sequester, and Budgetary Crises, and it's written by a guy from New Economic Perspectives.

I always want to read more about MMT but some of the information I find always looks really cheap (the pictures of book covers, I know I know but still) and the information to the books always read scarily similarly to some of the crap idiots on my facebook share about chemtrails or the government secretly killing us. It just reads in a certain way. It puts me off on it.
 

KtSlime

Member
I don't mean to say its "working for them" its just that they don't have a problem with it. They're condoning it.

In other words Neo should have taken the blue pill.

Condoning things when you don't have all the facts is exactly how they stay in power - it's what they want you to do.
 
Condoning things when you don't have all the facts is exactly how they stay in power - it's what they want you to do.

My point is that its not some higher power that is keeping the facts from people its often their own desire for ignorance or lack of desire to know things. If they were truly unsatisfied they'd let it be known IMO. There is some elements of manipulation but I don't think its fair to say its the elites that control information and what the public thinks (especially today with the internet and new technology), its a two way street. Its a cop-out to blame "those in power" for a lack of change. They don't make it easy but the people need to pull their weight and if they don't, there's an element of condoning and acceptance.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
I always want to read more about MMT but some of the information I find always looks really cheap (the pictures of book covers, I know I know but still) and the information to the books always read scarily similarly to some of the crap idiots on my facebook share about chemtrails or the government secretly killing us. It just reads in a certain way. It puts me off on it.

Yea, there's a certain sort of conspiracy theorist language that you really need to avoid if you're trying to make a serious point. Which is unfortunate, because some of that language can be accurate- there are people in positions of power that would want the general public to be unaware of various things since they benefit from it. But if you're trying to explain something "they don't want you to know", people are going to assume "they" are the nurses in your psychiatric ward. Just, y'know, leave that stuff out, make the argument stand on its own merits. Most of the MMT stuff does, you just need to present it right.
 

KtSlime

Member
My point is that its not some higher power that is keeping the facts from people its often their own desire for ignorance or lack of desire to know things. If they were truly unsatisfied they'd let it be known IMO. There is some elements of manipulation but I don't think its fair to say its the elites that control information and what the public thinks (especially today with the internet and new technology), its a two way street. Its a cop-out to blame "those in power" for a lack of change. They don't make it easy but the people need to pull their weight and if they don't, there's an element of condoning and acceptance.

I wonder if there happens to be an institution or two in power who teach ignorance as a virtue.

So what would change coming from the people look like? Occupy Wall Street maybe? How did that go wrong? There was no curfews set by the government right? No swat teams dispatched? No attacks on the protestors? Maybe you were talking about change using elections... So there was no manipulation of the districts? No ignoring of constituents? No dissemination of inaccurate information? No bribery and private funding by the aristocrats to politicians?

It may sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, but I don't think there is one. I don't mean to imply there being one. English is not the best language to talk about these ideas, I'm just using they/aristocrats/those in power as those who seek to keep orthodoxy at the expense of heterodoxy (using the language of Bourdieu).
 

RDreamer

Member
NBC Poll:



So much for that.

I blame them both because they both stupidly agree on deficit reduction and the stupid debt scare at a time when we should be spending much more. Sure, I'd blame the economic terrorists slightly more than the nitwits, but they're both in it together in a way.
 
That's an ill omen for our upcoming fiscal battles. Ultimately I think an even more important statistic might be what percentage of Americans believe spending during a recession, or spending in general, helps generate jobs and promote economic recovery. Even a majority blaming the republicans isn't that helpful if it doesn't translate into support for increased spending or stimulus.
 
Just thought I'd share this from a national review article in 2004... SMH

hxC6VdA.png
 
I blame them both because they both stupidly agree on deficit reduction and the stupid debt scare at a time when we should be spending much more. Sure, I'd blame the economic terrorists slightly more than the nitwits, but they're both in it together in a way.

Same. Both are giving in to household analogies and that type of rhetoric. It would be better if the Dems just ignore that type of language.
 
The White House issued a formal statement Tuesday afternoon saying it's "deeply concerned" about the impact of the House GOP's continuing resolution to fund the government through the end of September.

Voicing its displeasure, but offering no signal that President Obama might veto the bill, the Office of Management and Budget did say it's "pleased" that the legislation includes previously agreed upon budget elements.

While the Administration is pleased to see that H.R. 933 is consistent with the mutually agreed upon budget framework in the Budget Control Act of 2011 (BCA), the bill raises concerns about the Government's ability to protect consumers, avoid deep cuts in critical services that families depend on, and implement critical domestic priorities such as access to quality and affordable health care. Furthermore, while the legislation includes the Department of Defense and the Military Construction and Veterans Affairs and Related Agencies fiscal year 2013 bills, the remainder of Federal agencies are left to operate at last year's level, which will impede their ability to provide services to Americans and efficiently allocate funding to key programs including those in infrastructure, clean energy, education, and research and development. [...]

The President continues to work to replace sequestration with a larger, balanced deficit reduction agreement that strengthens the middle class by accelerating job creation and growth while coupling serious entitlement reform that strengthens these critical programs with tax reform that raises revenue by closing tax loopholes for the wealthiest Americans.

Yea, I am totally Diablosing.
 

DasRaven

Member
Is the sequester happening?

[ronpaul.gif]

Yes, the sequester is definitely happening. Furloughs and cutbacks are already happening. A friend, who's an ICE agent, indicates that their extradition travel budgets have been trimmed.
And since it is a rolling calamity, everyday there will be another story of something stopping/not happening thanks to it. Today was no more W.H. tours.
 
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