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[fallagin]

I'm not surprised at all. Though i at least thought immigration reform would get done...

Guess our only hope for anything major is the US-EU free trade agreement

One world government!!1! And then Obama will crown himself as the antichrist!!

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Lincoln definitely believed in compromise, many of his contemporaries thought too much so.
He wouldn't accept with secession, that is true.

Oh no doubt its just he didn't compromise on hostage taking (slavery or the union) and things of great principle

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Yeah, I suppose that's true. Power used to be held by people who called themselves gods, and we have made great strides at attaining equality. However at the same time, we are once again complicit at giving up what little political will we gained. A mob cannot take on an army, people have been systematically duped into thinking that the way forward is to defund our education and that taxation is theft. The common belief here in America is that people on the top earned their place there, and that knowledge and culture can be held in the hands of corporations for all eternity (life+80 years plus unlimited extensions). And it is fair and legit that politicians can lie, get paid off, and are expected to look out for the interests of inanimate objects over that of the people.

I'm probably just tired, it's obvious it isn't as bad as it was in the past, but I would hate to see a relapse.

I think "the problem" is that people generally are pretty satisfied. they have their video games, cellphones and facebook. People back then were struggling to survive.

That's not to say there's not discontent but its not quite the same, we have it pretty good even if we own like 10% of the wealth.

 

[Black Mamba]

Yeah, I suppose that's true. Power used to be held by people who called themselves gods, and we have made great strides at attaining equality. However at the same time, we are once again complicit at giving up what little political will we gained. A mob cannot take on an army, people have been systematically duped into thinking that the way forward is to defund our education and that taxation is theft. The common belief here in America is that people on the top earned their place there, and that knowledge and culture can be held in the hands of corporations for all eternity (life+80 years plus unlimited extensions). And it is fair and legit that politicians can lie, get paid off, and are expected to look out for the interests of inanimate objects over that of the people.

I'm probably just tired, it's obvious it isn't as bad as it was in the past, but I would hate to see a relapse.

Honestly, it wouldn't be a big deal if not for certain social issues which are dying out as we go along.

Most people don't actually want to defund education. They might say it in the abstract, but in reality they don't.

I think "the problem" is that people generally are pretty satisfied. they have their video games, cellphones and facebook. People back then were struggling to survive.

That's not to say there's not discontent but its not quite the same, we have it pretty good even if we own like 10% of the wealth.

Definitely true. Even as inequality grows, the not-wealthy still get to join in on things like new technology.

 

[KtSlime]

I was absolutely certain that the great recession was enough.
It might just be a generational thing (which to a large part it is) and we'll see a slow and gradual movement toward more sane politics, and it's true, radicalization tend to come in cycles, but I don't know, I think technology is bringing changes and challenges that our politics and our economy is not ready to tackle.

I feel a lot of the technology that has the potential to bring us great benefit are being cordoned off by the wealthy because they see that it might bring about greater equality.

APKmetsfan: Yeah, I guess the fact that we are all on soma doesn't help us one bit.

Black Mamba: Maybe I watched one too many christian documentaries about how our government is indoctrinating their children, I should probably look at the statistics instead.

 

[Oblivion]

In a world where people who are dirt poor will nearly fight to the death for the rights of the wealthy to pay as little in taxes as possible, it's just stunning to imagine that we used to have tax rates as high as the 90%+ we had in the beginning of the 20th century. I think it's virtually impossible for the U.S. to get anywhere near those rates again.

 

[Chichikov]

Oh no doubt its just he didn't compromise on hostage taking (slavery or the union) and things of great principle

In what way?
7 states seceded before he even took office, and it's not like he came into office all fire, brimstone and civil warlike; have you read his first inaugural address?
It's all "no south, I know you think I'm going to abolish slavery so you got mad and seceded, but no, those be crazy lies, come back baby, I love you, I'll even keep delivering your mail for you"

This was not about Lincoln standing firm, this was about the southern states looking at the demographics of the country and thinking that they only have one path that will allow them to preserve slavery in the long run (obviously they were wrong, but racism bring the stupid in people).

p.s.
No, I was not joking about Lincoln first inaugural address (not even about the USPS) you really should check it out sometime, but I can give you the executive summary -

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

 

[speculawyer]

Lincoln definitely believed in compromise, many of his contemporaries thought too much so.
He wouldn't accept with secession, that is true.

So Obama is much like Lincoln. He's got an administration with corporate types like former Geithner and he had more radical types like Van Jones. He's got his team of rivals in his cabinet.

But like Lincoln, he can't get any fucking useful compromise with the nuts in the South of the Country.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

In what way?
7 states seceded before he even took office, and it's not like he came into office all fire, brimstone and civil warlike; have you read his first inaugural address?
It's all "no south, I know you think I'm going to abolish slavery so you got mad and seceded, but no, those be crazy lies, come back baby, I love you, I'll even keep delivering your mail for you"

This was not about Lincoln standing firm, this was about the southern states looking at the demographics of the country and thinking that they only have one path that will allow them to preserve slavery in the long run (obviously they were wrong, but racism bring the stupid in people).

p.s.
No, I was not joking about Lincoln first inaugural address (not even about the USPS) you really should check it out sometime, but I can give you the executive summary -

In that way Obama's a lot like Lincoln coming in to office so naive and thinking the other side was going to negotiate, I was referring more to conduct in later in war. He's views evolved. He was conciliatory but firm in many aspects

 

[Black Mamba]

Have y'all heard Lincoln's voice? I know i couldn't take him seriously...

(srsly, could Lincoln get elected today with that voice? me thinks not)

 

[Hitokage]

p.s.
No, I was not joking about Lincoln first inaugural address (not even about the USPS) you really should check it out sometime, but I can give you the executive summary -

There's another 13th Amendment that Lincoln signed that was never ratified.

It would have made it incredibly hard to outlaw slavery.

 

[KtSlime]

There's another 13th Amendment that Lincoln signed that was never ratified.

It would have made it incredibly hard to outlaw slavery.

Apparently he 'forgot' to outlaw it with the current 13th amendment - no punishment.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

OFA is going to deliver the goods in 2014. It's the only way anything big is going to happen. Obama knows it. Everyone in the white house knows it. Republicans know it. 2014 is going to be big. We'll see the largest flow of money in (mid term?) elections ever. Bill, Hillary, Obama, triple threat out on the road 24/7, shit is gonna be mad. Hopefully left leaning billionaires learned to not give a shit and finally put their weight behind real change.

 

[zero shift]

I sure hope we're not going to have to go through a 4 years depression and 40% unemployment again.

I don't mean to be a cynic but unless things turn around soon thats what its going to take. The biggest symptom is that people believe that the system is working. They believe that no matter your background if you work reasonably hard you will become not just middle class, but well off. They have been spout propaganda to since they were children. "You can be whatever you want to be!", "The land of opportunity!", "The only truly free nation in the world." Its as if we are the flip side of the people who were behind the iron curtain. And in racism, the hyper-religious, and the super-rich and you get a nation in which it would take something major for the people to revolt.

There is also the fact that of just how separated the country is. Just on the clearly oppressed you have poor ghetto minorities, poor rednecks, poor whites, working class whites, working class country people, and working class minorities. You can overlap maybe two at a time, MAYBE three of them, but certainly nowhere near all.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

The fact that there is less blood being spilt is in a way a bad situation. The bread and games are working better and better. People are being entertained enough to make them not want to revolt. On the other hand change is happening obviously and society is advancing so it's not like we need blood to be spilt. However the pace is at times frustrating. The people are way ahead of the government in various subjects. Democracy is failing to do its main Job.

 

[Link]

Scenario where shit gets done:

Certain slots on the Supreme Court open, new court ends gerrymandering.

Don't hold your breath.

This made me think about the future of the Supreme Court if the Republicans somehow win in 2016 and the feeling of dread just coursed through my body.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The fact that there is less blood being spilt is in a way a bad situation. The bread and games are working better and better. People are being entertained enough to make them not want to revolt. On the other hand change is happening obviously and society is advancing so it's not like we need blood to be spilt. However the pace is at times frustrating. The people are way ahead of the government in various subjects. Democracy is failing to do its main Job.

No, if people aren't that frustrated the government is meeting their needs. I dislike the notion that people are being kept down (entertained). If the people wanted their voices heard, they could make them (revolt, protest, demonstration, differing votes, etc.)

 

[Aaron Strife]

This made me think about the future of the Supreme Court if the Republicans somehow win in 2016 and the feeling of dread just coursed through my body.

At least Democrats will have the Senate. Given how lopsided the 2016 Senate class is, if Democrats don't make gains that year it means something went horribly wrong.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Just read an article on Facebook stating Bush added only 3.2 trillion to the debt. It also stated both wars cost 600-800 billion per year (which is correct). I pointed out that the two wars alone added up to more than 3.2 trillion even if you just add $600 billion per year from 2003-2009. Not to mention the same article stats the President isn't responsible for the budget his first year in office and also mentions the President has to deal with the previous Presidents tax rates. People seem to forget the mess Obama inherited included 2 wars, lowest tax rates in history, and the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Ugh, I hate living in Utah.

 

[PhoenixDark]

OFA is going to deliver the goods in 2014. It's the only way anything big is going to happen. Obama knows it. Everyone in the white house knows it. Republicans know it. 2014 is going to be big. We'll see the largest flow of money in (mid term?) elections ever. Bill, Hillary, Obama, triple threat out on the road 24/7, shit is gonna be mad. Hopefully left leaning billionaires learned to not give a shit and finally put their weight behind real change.

Huh? It doesn't matter due to gerrymandered districts and potentially another year of weak economic growth

 

[RustyNails]

... potentially another year of weak economic growth

Keep your fanfics to just Hillary please.

 

[Acheron]

Keep your fanfics to just Hillary please.

Shit Q4 + sequester + potential debt ceiling craziness = bad 2013 numbers.

 

[KtSlime]

No, if people aren't that frustrated the government is meeting their needs. I dislike the notion that people are being kept down (entertained). If the people wanted their voices heard, they could make them (revolt, protest, demonstration, differing votes, etc.)

While I like your optimism, and in no way think it is as bad as this example I am going to give, this is not always the case. North Korea for instance. People don't always have the means to rise up, or realize they should. It may be the case that we are duped, and are restricted by our own beliefs and culture.

 

[RustyNails]

Shit Q4 + sequester + potential debt ceiling craziness = bad 2013 numbers.

The numbers predicted for growth have taken all that shit into consideration. I posted the article way back.

Here, you lazy bums

The first half of 2013 is expected to be sluggish as government spending cuts dampen growth and a payroll tax increase crimps consumer spending.
allen sinai

(Photo: Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY)
Story Highlights

Unemployment rate seen averaging 7.5% by year's end
Monthly job gains forecast at 184,000 in fourth quarter
Economic growth to reach 2.7% late this year

The nation's economy and job-creating engine will start to purr later this year as business activity picks up — more than offsetting federal government cutbacks, predict economists surveyed by USA TODAY.

After starting the year slowly, the economy will shift into a higher gear this summer and then grow for the next nine months at the fastest pace in three years, according to the median estimates of 46 economists.

"I think we're really on the verge of this becoming a self-sustaining recovery," says Richard Moody, chief economist at Regions Bank.

The economists expect average monthly job gains of 171,000, with the pace quickening late this year. They expect unemployment to fall from 7.9% to 7.5% by year's end. In October, economists surveyed predicted average monthly gains of 155,000.

Several said they raised their forecasts in part after the government this month revised up its estimate of average monthly job growth from 153,000 each of the past two years to 175,000 in 2011 and 181,000 in 2012.

The revisions reflect a job market that's expanding more rapidly than previously believed, Moody says.

After gaining an average 157,000 jobs a month in the first quarter, the economy will gradually gather force and add 184,000 a month by the fourth quarter, the economists say.

The first half of 2013 is expected to be sluggish as government spending cuts dampen growth and a payroll tax increase crimps consumer spending. Those surveyed expect the economy to grow at less than a 2% annual rate the first six months of 2013.

But Congress and the White House averted a worse fate by agreeing in January to keep income taxes stable for households earning less than $450,000 a year. Thirty-seven percent of the economists are more optimistic about this year's outlook than they were three months ago.

What's more, the economists expect the effects of the federal cuts to fade by the fourth quarter, with growth picking up to a 2.7% pace. They say the housing market is rebounding, a rising stock market is boosting consumer wealth, the European financial crisis is easing and Corporate America is cash-rich.

Allen Sinai of Decision Economics, says the most positive development is that households have worked off much of the debt that hampered their spending in recent years.

Some remain cautious. ITG chief economist Steve Blitz say it's unlikely consumers will return to their free-spending ways.

PD wrong as usual.

 

[Acheron]

The numbers predicted for growth have taken all that shit into consideration. I posted the article way back.

Here, you lazy bums


PD wrong as usual.

Economists have predicted faster growth by the end of 201X for a few years now due to business investment, etc. We will see, but I've learned to be disappointed.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So the Dow hit a new high... Obama is the worst socialist ever.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Economists have predicted faster growth by the end of 201X for a few years now due to business investment, etc. We will see, but I've learned to be disappointed.

Same. I'm hugely doubtful it will somehow appear later this year. Especially since the GOP has a vested interest to continue to damage the economy, as they have so far. The article says we'll grow later in the year despite the sequester and expiration of the payroll tax holiday. Well, let's see how well that goes with ongoing debt ceiling fights, continuing resolution cliffs and government shut downs. I expect they will change those optimistic forecasts in short order.

 

[kehs]

So the Dow hit a new high... Obama is the worst socialist ever.

Invisible hand doing it's thing while Obama and Michelle are on vacation mooching off hard earn tax dollars.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

No, if people aren't that frustrated the government is meeting their needs. I dislike the notion that people are being kept down (entertained). If the people wanted their voices heard, they could make them (revolt, protest, demonstration, differing votes, etc.)

You may dislike it but it's true. The whole concept of bread and games is that the masses are sold the illusion of having their needs met. They are distracted by shiny objects while the real injustice continues.

Huh? It doesn't matter due to gerrymandered districts and potentially another year of weak economic growth

I doubt the margins were that big even with gerrymandering. A real campaign would blow the Republican vote out if the water. And it's clear its going to be a real campaign on the dem side. Republicans are going to be sitting ducks and their enthusiasm is going to be way down. Both with voters and donors. Especially donors.

 

[RDreamer]

You may dislike it but it's true. The whole concept of bread and games is that the masses are sold the illusion of having their needs met. They are distracted by shiny objects while the real injustice continues.

I doubt the margins were that big even with gerrymandering. A real campaign would blow the Republican vote out if the water. And it's clear its going to be a real campaign on the dem side. Republicans are going to be sitting ducks and their enthusiasm is going to be way down. Both with voters and donors. Especially donors.

I've read articles saying that because of the gerrymandering the dems would need to win by upwards of 7% in order to get a very very tiny majority. That's just not going to happen.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I've read articles saying that because of the gerrymandering the dems would need to win by upwards of 7% in order to get a very very tiny majority. That's just not going to happen.

If you will it, it is no dream.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I've read articles saying that because of the gerrymandering the dems would need to win by upwards of 7% in order to get a very very tiny majority. That's just not going to happen.

I don't doubt it's going to take a lot but I'd have to read their exact reasoning. The way this is going to go down is ofa and big dems like Obama focusing on the races they need. I don't know if the researches that have looked into the necessary margins have accounted for a big concentrated push like this or whether they calculated the 7 percent by assuming that voter turnout would have to increase everywhere in order for close/gerrymandered states to swing dem. If that makes sense.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I've read articles saying that because of the gerrymandering the dems would need to win by upwards of 7% in order to get a very very tiny majority. That's just not going to happen.

Normally, I'm a cynic, but I refuse to accept defeat until the polls close November 4th, 2014.

It's imperative that Dems take back the House AND the Republicans don't get in the White House in 2016 either.

Especially the latter

With as batshit insane as these clowns are they need stay the FUCK away from the White House.

 

[RDreamer]

I don't doubt it's going to take a lot but I'd have to read their exact reasoning. The way this is going to go down is ofa and big dems like Obama focusing on the races they need. I don't know if the researches that have looked into the necessary margins have accounted for a big concentrated push like this or whether they calculated the 7 percent by assuming that voter turnout would have to increase everywhere in order for close/gerrymandered states to swing dem. If that makes sense.

Here's one of the articles on it

They're accounting for an across the board swing. I'm not doubting a concentrated push could do some damage, but considering the margin of victory in 06 would have barely been enough to take the house by 5 seats with this level of gerrymandering, I'm not going to hold my breath. Odd year turnouts are worse for democrats, and I just don't think people are quite fired up enough against Republicans to actually boot them out.

I predict a pretty good win for Dems, though. Probably 5 points across the board, but I just don't see them hitting 7+. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[gcubed]

Here's one of the articles on it

They're accounting for an across the board swing. I'm not doubting a concentrated push could do some damage, but considering the margin of victory in 06 would have barely been enough to take the house by 5 seats with this level of gerrymandering, I'm not going to hold my breath. Odd year turnouts are worse for democrats, and I just don't think people are quite fired up enough against Republicans to actually boot them out.

I predict a pretty good win for Dems, though. Probably 5 points across the board, but I just don't see them hitting 7+. I hope I'm wrong.

i think a single digit seat minority and keeping the Senate the same will be doable.

 

[Link]

i think a single digit seat minority and keeping the Senate the same will be doable.

Unfortunately, that won't change anything.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Unfortunately, that won't change anything.

Depends.

If things are going well enough and the mood is positive, then the GOP is going to break their lockstep and start moderating for 2016. They've already had some fits and starts of this.

 

[RDreamer]

In the new GOP Budget bill ACORN would be defunded... again... even though it no longer exists.

This party is weird.

 

[Tamanon]

In the new GOP Budget bill ACORN would be defunded... again... even though it no longer exists.

This party is weird.

Hey, that's probably a good reason to defund it!

 

[kehs]

In the new GOP Budget bill ACORN would be defunded... again... even though it no longer exists.

This party is weird.

Rogers' bill also explicitly bars the use of the funds it appropriates for computer networks that do not block the viewing and exchange of pornography. It further bans the transportation of detainees from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to facilities in the United States, even though the Obama administration has not transferred any detainees from Guantanamo since 2009 and has announced no plans to do so.

Why won't Obama close guantanamo!?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Same. I'm hugely doubtful it will somehow appear later this year. Especially since the GOP has a vested interest to continue to damage the economy, as they have so far. The article says we'll grow later in the year despite the sequester and expiration of the payroll tax holiday. Well, let's see how well that goes with ongoing debt ceiling fights, continuing resolution cliffs and government shut downs. I expect they will change those optimistic forecasts in short order.

Exactly. There are so many economic sabatage points for the GOP to take advantage of. I don't think the government will shut down this month simply because republicans already got sequester spending cuts, but in a few months there will be continuing resulutions and other potential cliffs to take advantage of. It has no impact on the Dow but will stagger the economy again.

I don't see much of anything getting done this year. Maybe immigration but even that seems dead after the last two weeks of insanity. And of course maybe Jeb Bush gave the GOP a get-out-of-jail-free card on the issue, that won't turn out to be invalid until 2016 lol.

 

[gcubed]

Unfortunately, that won't change anything.

Depends.

If things are going well enough and the mood is positive, then the GOP is going to break their lockstep and start moderating for 2016. They've already had some fits and starts of this.

If they get insanely close to losing house majority in a midterm year, look for the speaker to push through more votes without majority of his party. If the Dem's make no inroads or lose seats? Nothing will change

 

[NYCmetsfan]

While I like your optimism, and in no way think it is as bad as this example I am going to give, this is not always the case. North Korea for instance. People don't always have the means to rise up, or realize they should. It may be the case that we are duped, and are restricted by our own beliefs and culture.

I think there are extremes and military dictatorship is hard to rise but I'm of the opinion that if the people want it they can try (NK is so brainwashed I think physiologically it might be impossible). Public opinion is important even in dictatorships.

I don't mean to say their reaction is quick but history shows even "unstoppable" regimes can fall when unrest hits (Ancien Regime, USSR). People are slow to react but they ultimately hold the keys to legitimacy. I just don't think its useful to say "democracy isn't doing its job" when what is really meant is "democracy isn't doing what I want" or "democracy isn't living up to this hypothetical idea"


Also I'm really pumped that gov. Spitzer is coming to my class today. Dude is a genious. But I gotta watch client 9 first!

 

[Chichikov]

In the new GOP Budget bill ACORN would be defunded... again... even though it no longer exists.

This party is weird.

"Rogers' bill also explicitly bars the use of the funds it appropriates for computer networks that do not block the viewing and exchange of pornography".

That will totally win the youth vote.
The GOP might be too relevant for the 21st century.

 

[Link]

If they get insanely close to losing house majority in a midterm year, look for the speaker to push through more votes without majority of his party. If the Dem's make no inroads or lose seats? Nothing will change

That sure worked this last election, right?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

That will totally win the youth vote.
The GOP might be too relevant for the 21st century.

Or iceland

 

[Chichikov]

Or iceland

Europe is generally horrible on those things (though there are exceptions).

 

[gcubed]

That sure worked this last election, right?

you're seeing hissy fits within the party now, if they lose more seats in a midterm, leading up to presidential election you'll see explosions and moderation

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Europe is generally horrible on those things (though there are exceptions).

I mean obscenity is illegal here too (undefined but still) but I agree.
I love our first amendment protections compared to Europe. I cringe whenever I see those threads pop up in the OT about free speech in Europe.

 

[Link]

you're seeing hissy fits within the party now, if they lose more seats in a midterm, leading up to presidential election you'll see explosions and moderation

I really don't think so. They'll just continue to sabotage the economy and any social progress in the hopes that everyone will just blame it on Obama and vote Republican in 2016. If they didn't think moderation was the right move after this election, what makes you think it will be any different in 2014?