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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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G

Gotchaye

Member
GaimeGuy said:
Nothing. Look at this thread; People don't care about politics. They care about elections. They're already talking about whom is going to beat whom in 20 months. And after that, all they'll talk about is OMG 2016 HILARY VS CHRISTIE or whoever ends up running.

No one gives a damn about the issues.
Click to expand...

This isn't fair. Elections and the prospect of elections are what get issues taken care of. I'd like immigration reform to get passed. But immigration reform passing depends on Republicans deciding that it's in their political self-interest to support immigration reform. The situations faced by Republicans in future primary and general elections are very nearly determinative of immigration policy before 2015.

One can also look at Congress or the Supreme Court right now and reasonably conclude that by far the most important thing for Democrats, if they want to achieve particular policy goals, is to win more elections. Many Republicans appear to be totally incapable of compromising in a mutually satisfactory way, and there's nothing to do but vote them out. It's just not unreasonable to think that the most important thing to do, for the purpose of securing the country's welfare into the future, is to break the Republican party.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Gotchaye said:
This isn't fair. Elections and the prospect of elections are what get issues taken care of. I'd like immigration reform to get passed. But immigration reform passing depends on Republicans deciding that it's in their political self-interest to support immigration reform. The situations faced by Republicans in future primary and general elections are very nearly determinative of immigration policy before 2015.

One can also look at Congress or the Supreme Court right now and reasonably conclude that by far the most important thing for Democrats, if they want to achieve particular policy goals, is to win more elections. Many Republicans appear to be totally incapable of compromising in a mutually satisfactory way, and there's nothing to do but vote them out. It's just not unreasonable to think that the most important thing to do, for the purpose of securing the country's welfare into the future, is to break the Republican party.
Click to expand...

*nods*
 
K

kehs

Banned
ClovingWestbrook said:
Obamacare to the GOP is Android to Steve Jobs and I love it. They despise it so very much. Never thought it would pass, never thought the lower courts would find it constitutional, never thought the Roberts Court wouldnt strike it down, never thought Obama would win reelection which waa the final nail in their dream of repealiing it. Feels good. Ultimately we will get a public option and they know it.
Click to expand...

I'm such a geek for trying to think up things to fill out that analogy.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
GaimeGuy said:
Nothing. Look at this thread; People don't care about politics. They care about elections. They're already talking about whom is going to beat whom in 20 months. And after that, all they'll talk about is OMG 2016 HILARY VS CHRISTIE or whoever ends up running.

No one gives a damn about the issues.
Click to expand...
No one gives a damn about the issues because nothing important is going to get done until either Democrats hold the House again or Republicans hold the Senate and presidency. That's really unfortunate but them's the breaks.

I would love if major progress was made on immigration reform, dealing with climate change, expanding education, some stimulative measures, etc. but that's simply not going to happen with a GOP House.

The owners of the media knows what's up. You could tell how disappointed they were that they couldn't write about Romney's bold new agenda of passing the Ryan plan and shitting on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, not to mention repealing Obamacare and everything else Obama signed in his first term.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
GaimeGuy said:
Nothing. Look at this thread; People don't care about politics. They care about elections. They're already talking about whom is going to beat whom in 20 months. And after that, all they'll talk about is OMG 2016 HILARY VS CHRISTIE or whoever ends up running.

No one gives a damn about the issues.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is silly. People post about the issues all the time. Honestly, the problem is, as always, that we mostly agree.
 
E

el retorno

Member
GaimeGuy said:
Nothing. Look at this thread; People don't care about politics. They care about elections. They're already talking about whom is going to beat whom in 20 months. And after that, all they'll talk about is OMG 2016 HILARY VS CHRISTIE or whoever ends up running.

No one gives a damn about the issues.
Click to expand...

Were 2 months into the term. Things like the gun bills are moving through commitee. Immigration will be brought to a vote, I'm hoping this summer we get some relief from the fiscal crisis and some other bills get brought into discussion. Obama laid out a pretty heavy agenda and if we can get over the fiscal stuff he'll be better able to push that stuff.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
GaimeGuy said:
Nothing. Look at this thread; People don't care about politics. They care about elections. They're already talking about whom is going to beat whom in 20 months. And after that, all they'll talk about is OMG 2016 HILARY VS CHRISTIE or whoever ends up running.

No one gives a damn about the issues.
Click to expand...

I do. A bunch of us here have talked a lot about sequestration, tax policy, immigration, etc.

But nothing is happening in Congress which is forcing us to look ahead to elections.

For christ's sake, there is nothing new from the GOP to even discuss regarding the budget. Paul Ryan herp'n and derp'n budget to repeal Obamacare is not worth real discussion. Neither is replacing the sequester with more cuts to social safety nets so defense escapes.

You want to have a discussion, bring up a topic. It would also help if there were more GOPers around but they aren't.


edit: And we just spent a lot talking about the VRA and Prop 8 Cali.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
There's a whole lot of policy talk here. But we also discuss politics because let's face it, on policy nearly everyone agrees on everything whereas political debates here always reveal differing views. And when everyone agrees on politics, people like me spice things up to ensure it doesn't become a total self jerkoff fest.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
There's a whole lot of policy talk here. But we also discuss politics because let's face it, on policy nearly everyone agrees on everything whereas political debates here always reveal differing views. And when everyone agrees on politics, people like me spice things up to ensure it doesn't become a total self jerkoff fest.
Click to expand...

Atleast you admit you're a indepenerrrrr troll.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Democrats are begging for the grand bargain nowadays. These are exciting times for Obama to shape his legacy. All republicans have to do us temporarily be quiet and let it happen.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
TheLaughingStock said:
Democrats are begging for the grand bargain nowadays. These are exciting times for Obama to shape his legacy. All republicans have to do us temporarily be quiet and let it happen.
Click to expand...

I don't see why they didn't go for the big deal in 2011 the minute he agreed to raise the Medicare age. Give him his boutique taxes and let him be the guy who cut Medicare benefits; I'd imagine Romney would have been running to the left of Obama on that.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I don't see why they didn't go for the big deal in 2011 the minute he agreed to raise the Medicare age. Give him his boutique taxes and let him be the guy who cut Medicare benefits; I'd imagine Romney would have been running to the left of Obama on that.
Click to expand...

PhoenixDark said:
There's a whole lot of policy talk here. But we also discuss politics because let's face it, on policy nearly everyone agrees on everything whereas political debates here always reveal differing views. And when everyone agrees on politics, people like me spice things up to ensure it doesn't become a total self jerkoff fest.
Click to expand...

You don't say.
 
K

kehs

Banned
TheLaughingStock said:
Democrats are begging for the grand bargain nowadays. These are exciting times for Obama to shape his legacy. All republicans have to do us temporarily be quiet and let it happen.
Click to expand...

Dems aren't begging for the brand bargain. If they were they'd be talking stimuls and arguing their righteous virtues.

Instead they're too busy wrapping themselves around Obama's legs and sundress while he drinks iced tea by the pool and flogs himself for engaging the "other" party.

They should take notes from Sanders.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
ClovingWestbrook said:
If you actually believe Romney would be left of Obama on that issue you're trolling or just playing wrong. Also we never did get actual
confirmation of Obama putting it on the table, just rumors from the politicos.
Click to expand...

Given Romney's flip flopping nature, why wouldn't he desperately try to outflank the president for "cutting Medicare?" He did the same with the 916b cut

WASHINGTON -- In his press conference on Monday morning, President Barack Obama repeatedly insisted that he was willing to tackle some sacred cows as part of a larger package to raise the debt ceiling. Just how sacred, however, may surprise political observers.

According to five separate sources with knowledge of negotiations -- including both Republicans and Democrats -- the president offered an increase in the eligibility age for Medicare, from 65 to 67, in exchange for Republican movement on increasing tax revenues.

The proposal, as discussed, would not go into effect immediately, but rather would be implemented down the road (likely in 2013). The age at which people would be eligible for Medicare benefits would be raised incrementally, not in one fell swoop.

Sources offered varied accounts regarding the seriousness with which the president had discussed raising the Medicare eligibility age. As the White House is fond of saying, nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. And with Republicans having turned down a "grand" deal on the debt ceiling -- which would have included $3 trillion in spending cuts, including entitlement reforms, in exchange for up to $1 trillion in revenues -- it is unclear whether the proposal remains alive.

"That is one of the things they put on the table as part of a big solution," said one senior Republican Hill aide.

"It was considered in the context of the big deal," added a top Democratic source briefed on the deliberations.
Click to expand...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/obama-medicare-eligibility-age_n_894833.html
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Given Romney's flip flopping nature, why wouldn't he desperately try to outflank the president for "cutting Medicare?" He did the same with the 916b cut


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/obama-medicare-eligibility-age_n_894833.html
Click to expand...

Ah my mistake. Nevertheless another tril in tax revenue is something the GOP will NEVER accept. Its a moot point and I still stand by my position that Obama knew the GOP would never agree to his requirement but offered medicare age increase to simply display how impossible it is to negotiate with the GOP.
 
K

kehs

Banned
Rocket Scientist said:
This Obama cat sounds like real trouble.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but I think he's falling into the "being-so-self-aware-you-cant-do-anything-wrong-and-then-you-do-everything-wrong" mode. Repubs all falling left and right on their own swords and he's there kicking them out of the way.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Rocket Scientist said:
Has there ever been a straight up troll candidate who ran as either Democrat or Republican but then voted the other way literally all the time?
Click to expand...
I doubt it.

But things sort like that happen on the Supreme court. Sometimes they change heavily through time. I don't think Souter turned out like Bush thought he would.

Hugo Black was an interesting case. The joke about him once was that "He started out running around in white sheets scaring black people and then he started running around in black robes scaring white people."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Black
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
GaimeGuy said:
Nothing. Look at this thread; People don't care about politics. They care about elections. They're already talking about whom is going to beat whom in 20 months. And after that, all they'll talk about is OMG 2016 HILARY VS CHRISTIE or whoever ends up running.

No one gives a damn about the issues.
Click to expand...

lulz
 
K

KingK

Member
Rocket Scientist said:
Has there ever been a straight up troll candidate who ran as either Democrat or Republican but then voted the other way literally all the time?
Click to expand...

Not a Dem or Rep (and in fact was a VP who became president after Taylor died), but Millard Fillmore, the last Whig president, disagreed with the Whigs on pretty much everything and they didn't nominate him for reelection.
 
K

KingK

Member
Copernicus said:
heh, they were talking today about finally getting back to stimulus talk on the morning edition/npr.
Click to expand...

I really, really hope we can get back to stimulus talk and forget all this fucking ridiculous deficit nonsense.

Adding jobs to the economy should be the number one priority of the government right now, not trying to reduce some big scary number for no reason other than the fact that it's big and scary. I've still never had anyone actually tell me how reducing the deficit right now would help the economy rather than hurt it (other than some vague statements about "market confidence," which I think could be achieved even better if we just stopped inventing self-imposed budget crises).
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Copernicus said:
Dems aren't begging for the brand bargain. If they were they'd be talking stimuls and arguing their righteous virtues.

Instead they're too busy wrapping themselves around Obama's legs and sundress while he drinks iced tea by the pool and flogs himself for engaging the "other" party.

They should take notes from Sanders.
Click to expand...

Debbie Schultz seems pretty thirsty for tax hikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IuSwfOH6cNM

And as far as Krugman, he'd rather wrestle in the mud with Senator Johnson instead of asking what economic benefits will we see from what the tea party wants to do now.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
K

kehs

Banned
KingK said:
I really, really hope we can get back to stimulus talk and forget all this fucking ridiculous deficit nonsense.

Adding jobs to the economy should be the number one priority of the government right now, not trying to reduce some big scary number for no reason other than the fact that it's big and scary. I've still never had anyone actually tell me how reducing the deficit right now would help the economy rather than hurt it (other than some vague statements about "market confidence," which I think could be achieved even better if we just stopped inventing self-imposed budget crises).
Click to expand...

It's rather irritating how the conversation isn't about stimulus vs cuts, but rather shitty cuts vs really shitty cuts. They keep this shit up, and the dems are going to get stuck with the label of being anti growth when republicans turn on a dime decide to start supporting all their special interest groups wanting to spend money to build tank factories instead of spending it on infrastructure.

TheLaughingStock said:
Debbie Schultz seems pretty thirsty for tax hikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IuSwfOH6cNM

And as far as Krugman, he'd rather wrestle in the mud with Senator Johnson instead of asking what economic benefits will we see from what the tea party wants to do now.
Click to expand...

One thing the crazies are right about is that tax hikes on the current payers won't cover the spread. The US needs more revenue all around.
 
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