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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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Owzers

Member
What's this from?

it was the guy reading the straw poll data at cpac, he commented on every category, especially on the people who voted how he didn't agree with on each question.

Ted Cruz speech now. I do appreciate the revisionist history the republicans have taken on the sequestration cuts being something only Obama called harmful.
 
A few years ago I tried to rewatch the West Wing, wondering if I missed something the first time around.
I got as far as that episode.
Fuck Aaron Sorkin.
Heh, really? Why did that episode make you stop watching? I'm very much enjoying it because I have a much better idea of what the hell is even going on hah.
Not as such. I think explicit reparations for past misdeeds are a very hard thing to justify, philosophically, after we're more than a generation or two removed from the event, and in any case there's no good reason to think that what disadvantaged groups need today is going to be straightforwardly proportional to how wronged their ancestors were. But I'm all for race-conscious policy that takes into account the disadvantages faced by African-Americans due to existing and institutional racism/prejudice, and such policy would be justified no matter what explained the current state of US race relations. I certainly don't buy that "the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race".
No. Level the playing field for everyone.
I agree with those stances. It's sad that the playing field is still not level for everyone.
 

Owzers

Member
hah PETA is going to be pissed. Cruz talking about how a lizard is causing a group (was it EPA? ) to try to stop drilling in an area and he said something like " you know what i think about lizards? They make darn fine boots"
 
I don't think its wrong (or bigoted) to think marriage (as a sacrament) is one-man one-women, its a religious matter and up to the church to figure that out. But I have a problem when you deny civil marriage.

Exactly. I don't have a problem with people believing that marriage is between a man and a woman in terms of the religiou sacrament but the problem is when government defines marriage. The best solution really is just to separate civil union/marriage from religious sacrament.
 
Heh, really? Why did that episode make you stop watching? I'm very much enjoying it because I have a much better idea of what the hell is even going on hah.


I agree with those stances. It's sad that the playing field is still not level for everyone.

I think things like AA are the kind of reparations we should be talking about.


Exactly. I don't have a problem with people believing that marriage is between a man and a woman in terms of the religiou sacrament but the problem is when government defines marriage. The best solution really is just to separate civil union/marriage from religious sacrament.

Which exactly what we have today. Getting married in a church means nothing to the state until you get a marriage licence (though you do have Common-law marriage in some areas)
 
I think things like AA are the kind of reparations we should be talking about.




Which exactly what we have today. Getting married in a church means nothing to the state until you get a marriage licence (though you do have Common-law marriage in some areas)

But the government is still in the 'business' of determining who can and can't marry based on a religious text or even the will of a majority which also bases their bias on a religious text.
 

Gotchaye

Member
I don't think its wrong (or bigoted) to think marriage (as a sacrament) is one-man one-women, its a religious matter and up to the church to figure that out. But I have a problem when you deny civil marriage.

I don't really see how it isn't bigoted. If your religion says that black people are inferior, your religion is bigoted. A private belief isn't nearly as damaging as believing that this sort of judgment should inform public policy, but it's still damaging.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Also, on another soda note, it's stupid that it gets considered as a food and exempted from tax like produce in my home state and others.

It makes drinking things that should be done sparingly the more economic option than healthier drinks.

They're trying to change it, but I'm not sure it has much hope.
 
I don't really see how it isn't bigoted. If your religion says that black people are inferior, your religion is bigoted. A private belief isn't nearly as damaging as believing that this sort of judgment should inform public policy, but it's still damaging.

Because I don't think its much different from saying priests can't get married or you have to be of a certain age, I for example can't take the Eucharist because I don't fulfill the requirements. Its just a requirement that there has to be certain people. If you're denying them benefits or discriminating (saying gay people are inferior or can't come to your church) then I think that's bigoted (your black example).

But purely denying them a religious rights because they don't have the qualifications isn't at the same level as discriminating
 
I don't really see how it isn't bigoted. If your religion says that black people are inferior, your religion is bigoted. A private belief isn't nearly as damaging as believing that this sort of judgment should inform public policy, but it's still damaging.

It's damaging, agreed. But at the end of the day I have much less a problem with Christians who believe this while not letting it influence their vote than those who do.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Because I don't think its much different from saying priests can't get married or you have to be of a certain age, I for example can't take the Eucharist because I don't fulfill the requirements. Its just a requirement that there has to be certain people. If you're denying them benefits or discriminating (saying gay people are inferior or can't come to your church) then I think that's bigoted (your black example).

But purely denying them a religious rights because they don't have the qualifications isn't at the same level as discriminating

I'm not following. What's discriminatory about believing that a group is inferior? I'm not saying this hypothetical religion isn't allowing black people to come to church. Perhaps it just teaches that their skin color is something related to sin. I think the Mormons used to do that. That was problematic in itself.

Your examples of legitimate discrimination are pretty different. "Priests can't get married" isn't a rule that targets some group out of clear animus. That's impacting basically all priests more or less equally. "Women can't be priests", on the other hand, is simple bigotry, right? That's clearly just sex discrimination. And age is often a perfectly reasonable thing to discriminate on the basis of, so I'm not sure what the problem is. We don't typically think that sexual orientation is a reasonable thing to discriminate on the basis of.

Religious organizations also have some right to discriminate on the basis of religious belief. Even though this sort of discrimination isn't fine elsewhere, it's fine here for something like the same reason that sex discrimination is morally acceptable in choosing a romantic partner. Practically the whole point of religious institutions is to allow co-believers to come together and practice their religion as a group. So a church can morally limit some benefits to believers - a priest doesn't have to perform a marriage for atheists.

But a religion doesn't get a pass for bigotry just because it is a religion. If a religion holds that decent people who follow other religions are going to hell, it's an evil religion. If a religion holds that God decreed that there would be a special union for male/female romantic relationships from which other kinds of relationships are excluded, then that religion worships a bigoted God. Simple as that. I'm not advocating government interference here, but criticism is warranted. This is damaging to the people who are being told that God doesn't think very highly of them, especially ones who grow up in the religious tradition. I agree with ClovingWestbrook above that this is much less of a big deal than other, more public manifestations of religious bigotry, but it's still religious bigotry.
 

Chichikov

Member
Heh, really? Why did that episode make you stop watching? I'm very much enjoying it because I have a much better idea of what the hell is even going on hah.
Yeah, really.
Because it really provided no insight on the subject and as far as I can tell its entire point was to make white people feel better about the issue, just like Crash.
And Sorkin's writing has all the subtlety and patience of a first year philosophy student who thinks he found a proof that god doesn't exist.

Ugh, I wanted to punch the tv.
 
Yeah, really.
Because it really provided no insight on the subject and as far as I can tell its entire point was to make white people feel better about the issue, just like Crash.
And Sorkin's writing has all the subtlety and patience of a first year philosophy student who thinks he found a proof that god doesn't exist.

Ugh, I wanted to punch the tv.
Haha damn, well, watching it is making me feel kind of intelligent I must admit >.> I prefer it over Gaf! Ii would have been much more interesting if the subject had been discussed more however. I was curious to see more arguments in favor and against, but unfortunately it stayed superficial.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
People don't hate black republicans because they are black, its' because they are full of shit and love it, and they are presented like trophies that the republicans won to prove they aren't all white. I dislike Paul Ryan the same as Alan West the same as Ted Cruz. I don't dislike republicans based on race, it's the horrific and downright stupid ideas they share.

RACIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIST



Also, no one cared for the Rosa Parks story?
 

Dram

Member
Why do black republicans tend to think black democrats are living on a plantation, by voting democrat? You always hear how democrats fear a free black person who votes republican.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Yeah, really.
Because it really provided no insight on the subject and as far as I can tell its entire point was to make white people feel better about the issue, just like Crash.
And Sorkin's writing has all the subtlety and patience of a first year philosophy student who thinks he found a proof that god doesn't exist.

Ugh, I wanted to punch the tv.

I know you don't like WW (and I can sorta see where you're coming from since I'm not a huge fan of Newsroom), but let us not compare that to Crash. That movie was straight up trash.

/rhyme
 
Wow, Boehner. You're such a piece of shit.

Am I the only one who thinks Portman is kind of a dirtbag in all of this? It's like he finally realized "wow, gay people are someone's family members. Shit they have like feelings and stuff too. Who knew?" What else is he ignorant about? Does he realize that poor people actually exist and are someone's child? What about black people? Does he realize they are more than just a statistical presence in the country? God forbid he considers if people we bomb in *other* countries have families or feelings...

Maybe I'm overreacting but that's how it made me feel when I heard him.
 
So...Ben Carson is a terrible person, who knew? He gave a hypothetical on how he would destroy this country if he were president and named some bull and then said coincidentally that's what Obama has been doing. Pitting people against eachother, ridiculing people with moral standings, weakening our military ( what crap), and hurting our countries financial stability ( as if that was obama who crashed the economy).

People don't hate black republicans because they are black, its' because they are full of shit and love it, and they are presented like trophies that the republicans won to prove they aren't all white. I dislike Paul Ryan the same as Alan West the same as Ted Cruz. I don't dislike republicans based on race, it's the horrific and downright stupid ideas they share.

Personally I have no problem with black people being republicans. Conservationism is largely a social and economic ideology and therefore shouldn't be regulated to one race/blocked for another. My problem with many black republicans is due to their complacency and excitement at being used as a prop to say outrageous, ridiculous things that a white conservative couldn't say without being called racist. Hermain Cain, Alan Keyes, Clarance Thomas, etc aren't popular because of their political views - they are popular because of how effectively they criticize the black community, or how viciously they attack and emasculate Obama.

In some ways I do agree that there is an odd level of disdain among certain liberals aimed at black conservatives. I've seen it first hand, especially among academic types, and it's ugly. But overall I cannot say black republicans are persecuted nearly as much as they claim. I don't remember Colin Powell or JC Watts getting shat on continuously: they refused to be attack dogs for the far right. There's always going to be a group of black people who accuse black republicans of being Uncle Toms, but they are not the majority.
 

Jooney

Member
Dinesh D'Souza planning follow up film to 2016: Obama's America.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/2016-obamas-america-filmmakers-making-429104

Conservative commentator Dinesh D’Souza, who starred in, co-wrote and co-directed 2016, will return as the writer and star of a film simply titled America to be directed by John Sullivan, who wrote and directed 2016 with D’Souza.

...

While 2016 was based on D’Souza’s book The Roots of Obama’s Rage, the new film will not draw from previously known source material, and the filmmakers say America is not technically a sequel to 2016, though audiences may be inclined to view it as such.
In America, D’Souza intends to recreate some famous moments in American history and ask the question: What would the world be like if the U.S. had not existed? He likened America, in fact, to Frank Capra’s 1946 film It’s a Wonderful Life, in which George Bailey learns what his town would have been like had he never lived.
“President Obama looks at America as an oppressive force,” D’Souza said, “while I and millions of others around the world have a different view – that America has been a great blessing to its own people and to the world.”

...

D’Souza says America should make its way into theaters by the middle of next year, an advantageous time as Americans turn their attention toward politics again due to the midterm elections, when all 435 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives are up for grabs, as are 33 seats in the Senate.

Suckers are easily parted with their money.
 
Might want to edit that bro
dayum.png
 
Ok, this says nothing about his beliefs. If he's as far right as the Tea Party then he won't stand a chance. We know nothing about the guy other than his personal story and we all know you don't win a national election on personal story alone.

I want to qualify my statements as hearsay.

Ben Carson AFAIK doesn't like people and often stays away from people. He mentors students at John Hopkins and tells them verbatim "don't introduce me" to any of your family or friends lol. I don't know how he treats everyone he comes in contact with, but he's a pretty nasty fellow I've been told multiple times.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=8639C9274E06C173!453&authkey=!ACRCmvK15LG_x9E
 
Straw poll results
Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) has won the CPAC straw poll with 25 percent of the vote. Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) came in a close second with 23 percent. Trailing them were former Sen. Rick Santorum (8 percent), NJ Gov. Chris Christe (7 percent), and Rep. Paul Ryan (6 percent).

Ben Carson at 4%, Jindal 3%. "Other" 14%. Good news for John McCain
 

Chichikov

Member
I know you don't like WW (and I can sorta see where you're coming from since I'm not a huge fan of Newsroom), but let us not compare that to Crash. That movie was straight up trash.

/rhyme
That movie solved racism!
You see, some black folks are intolerant, therefore we're all just equally racist, so who to say what racist really is?
No one, that's who, racism is over, roll credits.
Obama owe his election to his movie.

p.s.
I am however a bit offended that white people were represented by Branden Fraser and Sandra Bullock, I get that they want to stress the point that they're white, but don't fucking overdo it.
That's like having Yaphet Kotto in blackface.
 
That movie solved racism!
You see, some black folks are intolerant, therefore we're all just equally racist, so who to say what racist really is?
No one, that's who, racism is over, roll credits.
Obama owe his election to his movie.

p.s.
I am however a bit offended that white people were represented by Branden Fraser and Sandra Bullock, I get that they want to stress the point that they're white, but don't fucking overdo it.
That's like having Yaphet Kotto in blackface.

Dunno, whenever I think of white people I think of Branden Fraser and Sandra Bullock. And Friends.

And Taylor Swift
 

Chichikov

Member
Dunno, whenever I think of white people I think of Branden Fraser and Sandra Bullock. And Friends.

And Taylor Swift
You can laugh all you want, but without Sandra Bullock Christian faith and can do American spirit the right side of the Baltimore Ravens offensive line wouldn't be half as robust.
 

Jooney

Member
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.
 

Chichikov

Member
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.
I think he's a funny (and at times REALLY FUNNY) ignorant partisan clown, who happen to agree with me on many of the issues.
I can't lie and say I don't enjoy this brand of entertainment, but I can totally understand conservatives who hate his smug face.
 

Clevinger

Member
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.

Similar to Chichikov's revulsion for West Wing/Sorkin, I can't watch that shit. Bill Maher is like an unfunny, incredibly smug, dumber version of Jon Stewart. And the guests and the discussion I've seen aren't much better. A bunch of people who agree with each other, to loud obnoxious applause, and one or two conservatives.

Bleh. Not as bad as conservative media, but not that much better.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I want to qualify my statements as hearsay.

Ben Carson AFAIK doesn't like people and often stays away from people. He mentors students at John Hopkins and tells them verbatim "don't introduce me" to any of your family or friends lol. I don't know how he treats everyone he comes in contact with, but he's a pretty nasty fellow I've been told multiple times.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=8639C9274E06C173!453&authkey=!ACRCmvK15LG_x9E

Then there is no way in hell he'd ever win a national election. Or any election.

So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.

Can't say I'm a fan. If you want jokes there are better, if you want news there's better.
 
Bill Maher can make a good joke, but the problem is the rest of the time he's just a misogynist and a naturopath idiot. No need to bother with all that.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Can't say I'm a fan. If you want jokes there are better, if you want news there's better.

Great description of it.

And reparations are stupid to me in the sense that the people who were actually enslaved are long-gone. We've got the present problems as a result of slavery to deal with, and those won't be solved by some sort of check to people who's great-great-grandparents were enslaved by my great-great-grandparents (well, only one side of my family, the other side was in Europe, so can I just pay half?)

Trying to solve educational inequalities, lifting people out of poverty, that helps *everyone*, not just one race or another. And politically, I think it's better to go down the path of least resistance for most good.
 
Currently reading Rachel Maddow's Drift: The Unmooring of American Military Power, and man...reading about Reagan and this Panama Treaty business is hilarisad. Dude was in full on "America as we know it will end if this treaty is signed! The Russians are coming!" mode and turned what was a bipartisan, relatively boring treaty into something that squeaked by with one vote after the conservative movement got ahold of it. Even John Wayne called Reagan out on his BS

But Reagan/conservatives just kept lying and lying...and Democrats lose the Senate in 1980 (first time since 1954 apparently) And of course, Reagan is elected President.

Goddamn those conservatives sure did know how to play up people's worst fears and turn it into electoral success.
 

RDreamer

Member
Did you guys see this?

Declassified tapes of President Lyndon Johnson's telephone calls provide a fresh insight into his world. Among the revelations - he planned a dramatic entry into the 1968 Democratic Convention to re-join the presidential race. And he caught Richard Nixon sabotaging the Vietnam peace talks... but said nothing.
 
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.

I've graduated from watching Young Turks to Daily show to now Bill Maher. Sadly, Jon Stewart's show is doing nothing for me these days. It's too PC and "duh, they're Republicans so ofcourse they would". IMO, Jon Stewart says exactly what I'm thinking, but he doesn't make an incisive and blunt commentary that Bill provides. Of course, I mute Bill Maher whenever he starts yapping about Religion. But there is no denying that you need lot of swearing and downright RUDE call-outs to the GOP that Bill's show does on a regular basis. I don't watch Jon Stewart anymore, but that kinda makes me sad.
 

Jooney

Member
Thanks for the perspective, guys.

To me, he's like the political equivalent of a guilty treat. I enjoy his brand but have enough sense to not limit my media diet to his show or people like him - that would be toxic.

I will give him this though - he is far better at packaging and selling the case for liberal policies far better than most Democrats in Washington. Liberal / progressive ideas that don't make the news cycle at least get some airing on this show - like this week he spent at least a few minutes talking about the CPC budget and asks the valid question as to why it doesn't get given the light of day (especially when compared to the Ryan budget).

Of course there are things about him that bother me, like his passing on Obama's justifications on the use of drones. He says that's the one aspect of Obama that disappoints him greatly, but he then makes other comments that gives him Obama a pass.

Worst aspect of the show is the audience though. At times you could mistake them for a bunch of clapping seals.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.

I'm a big fan of Bill Maher and the show, though I totally agree that he can be off putting due to his occasional smugness, and less than stellar jokes.

Ironically, despite being a comedian, I think he's at his best when he's actually being serious about something. He's a pretty sharp guy and can wreck conservatives quite well. And his New Rules segments are 9 times out of 10 fucking awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rjYuaQ1Zho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if88PgI-vfU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSmGlxTNlFU&list=PLB10C3FA566CD7D46&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfPqlPMoWGw&playnext=1&list=PLB10C3FA566CD7D46&feature=results_main

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90RzlUjE_Lo&list=PLB10C3FA566CD7D46


But then again, I also liked Keith Olbermann, so what do I know.
 
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