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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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I like Real Time while readily admitting Maher is an asshole who borders on a bigot (his anti-Muslim rhetoric is just ridiculous). In a sense he reminds me of Hitchens: I agree with him on a lot of social shit, but when he starts defending the Iraq war I want to break something.

He's funny and I like most of his panels. He gets some cool republicans like Steve Schmidt but he also finds some degenerate GOP muthafuckas...
 

Piecake

Member
I've graduated from watching Young Turks to Daily show to now Bill Maher. Sadly, Jon Stewart's show is doing nothing for me these days. It's too PC and "duh, they're Republicans so ofcourse they would". IMO, Jon Stewart says exactly what I'm thinking, but he doesn't make an incisive and blunt commentary that Bill provides. Of course, I mute Bill Maher whenever he starts yapping about Religion. But there is no denying that you need lot of swearing and downright RUDE call-outs to the GOP that Bill's show does on a regular basis. I don't watch Jon Stewart anymore, but that kinda makes me sad.

The next step is actual news - PBS Newshour
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I like Real Time while readily admitting Maher is an asshole who borders on a bigot (his anti-Muslim rhetoric is just ridiculous). In a sense he reminds me of Hitchens: I agree with him on a lot of social shit, but when he starts defending the Iraq war I want to break something.

He's funny and I like most of his panels. He gets some cool republicans like Steve Schmidt but he also finds some degenerate GOP muthafuckas...

But Bill doesn't support the Iraq War, yo.
 

Jooney

Member
But Bill doesn't support the Iraq War, yo.

PD is talking about The Hitch, and I agree with him (PD) that its is the most frustrating thing about Hitchens and his legacy.

Reading / watching Hitchens helped me greatly in helping me shed by Catholic upbringing. Getting to hear him speak for a good two hours at the Sydney Opera House a few years back was something special.

However, having to hear him defend his advocacy for the Iraq War was always frustrating. Yes, Saddam was a monster and his people now have the opportunity to build a more cohesive country. But that doesn't make the cost of admission worth it, in terms of the lives lost (both American/Coalition and Iraqi) and the treasury drained. And the process in which the war was sold should never be repeated again. The lies, the cheerleading, the "us vs. them" mentality, the morphing of Bid Laden to Saddam as the culprit of 9/11, the false definition of what patriotism meant ... all of these should never be repeated again in American history.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PD is talking about The Hitch, and I agree with him (PD) that its is the most frustrating thing about Hitchens and his legacy.

Oh, my bad.

I never got Hitchens love for the Iraq War. Did he really hate muslims that much?
 

Jooney

Member
Oh, my bad.

I never got Hitchens love for the Iraq War. Did he really hate muslims that much?

He hated despots, and wanted to give Iraqi's the chance to partake in their own story to create a democratic country of their own.

Of course, no one can really argue against those intention, but it was Hitchen's blindspot to the cost of the war that got liberals mad.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oh, my bad.

I never got Hitchens love for the Iraq War. Did he really hate muslims that much?

I think it would be inaccurate to say he hates muslims, but rather doesn't understand their religious position (being an atheist). And he certainly didn't like Hussein.
 

Clevinger

Member
It's amazing how one picture can say so much.


XjHFK0A.jpg
 

Jeels

Member
Yeah, really.
Because it really provided no insight on the subject and as far as I can tell its entire point was to make white people feel better about the issue, just like Crash.
And Sorkin's writing has all the subtlety and patience of a first year philosophy student who thinks he found a proof that god doesn't exist.

Ugh, I wanted to punch the tv.

Can you explain more about this Crash movie? I ask because I actually have a friend who I am usually uncomfortable around because of their racism, and they recommended the movie Crash to me. Not on political terms, but because it was an entertaining movie to them and they said it reflected life.
 

Jooney

Member
Delivering sugar cookies to kids, and taking sips from a big gulp to fight The Man.

I hope some know-it-all liberal puts forward a bill to ban interracial threesomes next.
 
Republicans will be perfectly happy becoming fat and gross if it makes the "librulz" mad.

Oh you want to ban big gulp mayor bloomberg OM NOM NOM NOM NOM GLUG GLUG GLUG GLUG
 

AniHawk

Member
Republicans will be perfectly happy becoming fat and gross if it makes the "librulz" mad.

Oh you want to ban big gulp mayor bloomberg OM NOM NOM NOM NOM GLUG GLUG GLUG GLUG

i think they would willingly set themselves on fire if liberals started talking about the dangers of setting yourself on fire.
 
I like Real Time while readily admitting Maher is an asshole who borders on a bigot (his anti-Muslim rhetoric is just ridiculous). In a sense he reminds me of Hitchens: I agree with him on a lot of social shit, but when he starts defending the Iraq war I want to break something.

He's funny and I like most of his panels. He gets some cool republicans like Steve Schmidt but he also finds some degenerate GOP muthafuckas...

He's not an Anti-Muslim bigot, he just hates religion and has a problem with religious folks.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
i think they would willingly set themselves on fire if liberals started talking about the dangers of setting yourself on fire.
Not when it's put on the nose like that. They'd have to talk about removing highly flammable objects from next to heat sources, and then the resulting response causes their house to burn down.
 
Why can't there be a liberal Dinesh making a political movie that outlines the entire BS of the GOP party?

I mean, seriously the "roots of Obama's rage" is pure horse shit. Dems should counter it with their own horse shit about the GOP because I'm tired of calling foul on one side slinging garbage and us just going "let's just ignore it"
 
Republicans will be perfectly happy becoming fat and gross if it makes the "librulz" mad.

They're doing whatever they have to do to make sure they get their fair share of Medicare dollars, because they've earned it dammit!


CPAC's Women Problem: One of November's glaring lessons still hasn't set in:
“We’re just misunderstood,” said Audrey Zopp, a 20-year-old representing the college Republicans at Campbell University, in North Carolina. ("The men’s wives speak up sometimes," offered her friend, Kelsey McGaha, 19.) Mostly, though, it was not hard to see why the conservative message was faltering with younger women in parts of the country more purple than where these girls grew up. “Liberals are obsessed with being treated equal, but men and women are different, we’re different creatures,” Zopp said. “How can you treat them the same?”
 
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.
I love the show. I've flown down & seen it live a few times. The monologue is generally good, the first interview is hit & miss depending on who it is, the panel is generally fun, and New Rules always has some good laughs.

I agree with Bill on most things but I can see how people think he's a dick because he can be pretty blunt with his opinion.

He's not an Anti-Muslim bigot, he just hates religion and has a problem with religious folks.

He certainly is no fan of religion. But he does have tough views on Muslims and he's indicated that he is fine with profiling.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician

His (also male) friend, an election staffer from the Midwest, added: “Our only problem is with single women. Married women don’t get abortions.” The only CPAC attendees who did seem to acknowledge the gap were, unsurprisingly, women. But their vagueness on the issue was enough to indicate that no one in the Party had really given the matter much thought.

The tunnel vision on display is staggering

"Abortion is the only issue women care about, right?"
 
I'm not following.

You're being kind of deliberately obtuse is what you mean. It's easy to take the high ground on this issue, but chalking up people's deeply held beliefs to simple bigotry won't get you anywhere. You're dramatically oversimplifying the issue.

Source: my parents are evangelicals, but my brother came out as gay two years ago. I've seen this conversation play out many times.
 

Jooney

Member
I've mentioned the Congressional Progressive Caucus's budget before, but I think people need to have a glance at what it contains.

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/The_CPC_FY2012_Budget.pdf

Our Budget’s Bottom Line
• Deficit reduction of $5.6 trillion
• Primary spending cuts of $869 billion
• Net interest savings of $856 billion
• Total spending cuts of $1.7 trillion
• Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
• Public investment of $1.7 trillion
• Budget surplus of $30.7 billion in 2021, debt at 64.1% of GDP.

Overview of Our Policies

Individual Income Tax Policies
• Allow the Bush-era tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012, but extend marriage relief, credits, and
incentives for children, families, and education
• Immediately rescind the upper-income tax cuts in December’s tax deal
• Index the AMT for inflation for a decade (the AMT patch is fully paid for)
• Schakowsky millionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%, 47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
• Tax all capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income
• Progressive estate tax (Sanders’ estate tax, repeal of Kyl-Lincoln)
• Limit the rate at which itemized deductions can reduce tax liability to 28%for high earners
• Replace the tax exclusion for interest on state and local bonds with a subsidy for the issuer

Corporate Tax Reform
• Tax U.S. corporate foreign income as it is earned
• Eliminate corporate welfare for oil, gas, and coal companies
• Enact a financial crisis responsibility fee
• Financial speculation tax (derivatives, foreign exchange)
• Reinstate Superfund taxes

Health Care
• Enact a public option
• Negotiate Rx payments with pharmaceutical companies
• CMS program integrity and other Medicare and Medicaid savings in the president’s budget
• Prevent a cut in Medicare physician payments for a decade (maintain doc fix)

Social Security
• Raise the taxable maximum on the employee side to 90% of earnings and eliminate the taxable
maximum on the employer side
• Increase benefits based on higher contributions on the employee side

Defense Savings
• End overseas contingency operations emergency supplementals starting in Fiscal Year 2013,
providing $170 billion in FY2012 to fund redeployment, while saving more than $1.8 trillion
from current law spending levels over ten years
• Reduce baseline defense spending by reducing strategic capabilities, conventional forces,
procurement, and R&D programs

Comprehensive Jobs Program
• Invest $1.45 trillion in job creation, education, clean energy and broadband infrastructure,
housing, and R&D
• Infrastructure bank
• Surface transportation reauthorization bill ($213 billion)

Stimulus, infrastructure bank, public option, negotiation for bulk prices on pharmaceuticals, taxing capital gains as ordinary income, reduced defence operations and spending. Sign me up. Pity that this get to attention in the media because it doesn't compare to the seriousness of the Ryan budget.
 
Some researchers at Harvard estimated that lack of health insurance kills 45,000 people a year. Roughly 3,000 people died on 9/11. Cutting our military budget and putting all of that money into healthcare would supposedly make us less secure, but from a cost/benefit standpoint, you'd statistically save far more lives with universal healthcare, even if another 9/11 happened because of the cuts (which is extremely unlikely).
 
I've mentioned the Congressional Progressive Caucus's budget before, but I think people need to have a glance at what it contains.

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/The_CPC_FY2012_Budget.pdf

Stimulus, infrastructure bank, public option, negotiation for bulk prices on pharmaceuticals, taxing capital gains as ordinary income, reduced defence operations and spending. Sign me up. Pity that this get to attention in the media because it doesn't compare to the seriousness of the Ryan budget.
>>"tax and spend" liberals
>>actually balances the budget

I hope if Democrats make gain in the midterm elections, their budget looks closer to this than any grand bargain proposal.
 
Borrow and spend > Tax and spend

Every fiscal conservative knows that.
Let's cut some spending. Oh hey, savings! Let's use those to cut taxes.

Uh-oh, we're running just as big a deficit! Better cut some more spending so we can cut taxes down even further.

repeat infinity
 

Drakeon

Member
I've mentioned the Congressional Progressive Caucus's budget before, but I think people need to have a glance at what it contains.

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/The_CPC_FY2012_Budget.pdf





Stimulus, infrastructure bank, public option, negotiation for bulk prices on pharmaceuticals, taxing capital gains as ordinary income, reduced defence operations and spending. Sign me up. Pity that this get to attention in the media because it doesn't compare to the seriousness of the Ryan budget.

This sounds amazing and I'm immediately depressed because it will never happen, or perhaps at best, maybe half of it'll happen in 20 years time.
 

Jooney

Member
Let's cut some spending. Oh hey, savings! Let's use those to cut taxes.

Uh-oh, we're running just as big a deficit! Better cut some more spending so we can cut taxes down even further.

repeat infinity

Hmm, I see.

Is there a StrifePAC where I can send all my money to?
 

Gotchaye

Member
You're being kind of deliberately obtuse is what you mean. It's easy to take the high ground on this issue, but chalking up people's deeply held beliefs to simple bigotry won't get you anywhere. You're dramatically oversimplifying the issue.

Source: my parents are evangelicals, but my brother came out as gay two years ago. I've seen this conversation play out many times.

I don't think I did that. I certainly did not intend to communicate that people have the religious beliefs they have because they are bigoted*. It's the other way around. It was the beliefs I was pointing to as bigoted - it's because they have bigoted religious beliefs that some people are bigoted.

I was disagreeing with the claim that what I'm referring to as religious bigotry is not much different "from saying priests can't get married or you have to be of a certain age". There's a big difference, which is that those beliefs don't imply a bigoted God, who Christians nearly universally believe to be perfectly good. Therefore, believing that God wants only men to be priests is an endorsement of obviously unjustifiable sex discrimination. My claim was that this is sort of thing is damaging, especially to women growing up Catholic (in this example), and ought to be called out as the bigotry it is. I was not asserting that it was on the same level as public discrimination - I was explicit about this in the last sentence of my earlier post. Of course "women can't be priests" is an almost unfairly easy example, since even though who Catholics consider to be a priest may technically be of purely religious significance, it's clearly a terrible message to be sending to Catholic girls and clearly impacts everyone else by virtue of the way doctrinal misogyny informs how Catholics relate as a group to the rest of the world, but it's qualitatively similar to "only opposite-sex couples can be Catholic-married". I want to stress here that not all Catholics share these bigoted beliefs, except perhaps in a legalistic sense where "official Catholicism" is what the Pope says it is - what matters is that these Catholics think the Pope should change his mind.

But to reiterate, when I say that "women can't be priests" is "simple bigotry", I don't mean that the religious belief follows from a believer's misogyny. It's the religious rule which is "simple bigotry", and it is by virtue of believing that such a rule is good that someone can be said to be misogynistic. I had hoped my last paragraph made clear that the problem was located most directly in the beliefs rather than the individuals.

*Although to footnote this, surely the invention of the religious beliefs in the first place partook of some pretty bigoted cultural norms, and it's of course the case that bigotry can lead people to re-interpret or emphasize different parts of their religious tradition. But at least with respect to homosexuality, religious bigotry is old and solid enough that modern people don't have to go very far out of their way to pick it up in Sunday school. And "women can't be priests" is a rule that's been around longer than any living Catholic, so I'm safe there too.
 
Hmm, I see.

Is there a StrifePAC where I can send all my money to?
Yeah, if you want to take this to PM I can give you my bank account info. Our current mission is to lobby Square-Enix into releasing a remake of Final Fantasy VII exclusively for Wii U and PSVita for the sake of lulz and NeoGAF meltdowns.
 

Jooney

Member
Yeah, if you want to take this to PM I can give you my bank account info. Our current mission is to lobby Square-Enix into releasing a remake of Final Fantasy VII exclusively for Wii U and PSVita for the sake of lulz and NeoGAF meltdowns.

Real talk:
I've never played a FF game in my life
 
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