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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Jooney said:
So what is PoliGAF's take on Real Time with Bill Maher? I feel that a lot of what he says would resonate with posters here, but his show only comes up as discussion here infrequently. Even worse it the glacially slow pace in which the Official Thread moves. Shame given how interesting (and entertaining) the show is.

The most recent episode was probably the most substantive this season - discussion on the three budget proposals (including a shout out to the CPC proposal), 10 year Iraq War anniversary, NYC limitation on big gulp sodas, hunger crisis and Rob Portman's gay marriage switch.
Click to expand...

The way that he talks about religion is horrible.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
SC Senate votes to avoid tax increase for wealthy residents

Good job, South Carolina.

COLUMBIA, SC — The South Carolina Senate voted overwhelmingly to not conform a portion of its state tax code with the federal code in order to avoid a $200 tax increase on the state’s wealthiest residents.

Whenever the federal government makes changes to its tax code, South Carolina usually does the same because it makes it easier for people to file their tax returns. But this year, the federal government increased the taxable incomes for single people making at least $250,000 a year and married couples earning at least $300,000 a year.

If South Carolina changed its tax code to do the same thing, then about 15,000 people -- less than 1 percent of the 2.1 million tax returns filed in the state -- would have had to pay about $200 a year more in state income taxes.

But the Republican-controlled state Senate, many of whom have taken pledges to not raise taxes under any circumstances, decided not to adopt the federal income tax code that would have resulted in an increase. If it would have passed, the tax increase would have added about $3.1 million to the state’s general fund.

But senators did choose to change the state income tax code to preserve 33 existing tax breaks, including the deduction for interest on student loans, the $250 deduction for teachers’ classroom expenses and deductions for state and local sales taxes.

Lawmakers had hoped to pass the bill before April 15, the deadline to file your state and federal tax returns. But the bill was delayed in the Senate for several weeks because of the tax increase.

The House must still approve the bill before it becomes law. House lawmakers are taking a two week unpaid vacation starting next week, making it difficult for lawmakers to pass the bill before April 15.
Click to expand...

Oh no! A whole $200 rich people have to do without?! How ever will they survive!
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Dax01 said:
David Brooks tried to criticize the CPC's budget. This was the result.
Click to expand...

I liked this part:

Then we get to the meat of Brooks' problem, he is unhappy that the CPC would raise taxes on rich people:

"The top tax rate would shoot up to 49 percent. There’d be new taxes on investment, inheritance, corporate income, financial transactions, banking activity and on and on.

"Now, of course, there have been times, like, say, the Eisenhower administration, when top tax rates were very high. But the total tax burden was lower since so few people paid the top rate and there were so many ways to avoid it. Government was smaller."

Huh? We had a top marginal tax rate on the rich of 90 percent in the Eisenhower years, but the CPC's 49 percent rate is supposed to be worse because the total tax burden was smaller? This one doesn't make any sense. The burden of the tax burden on rich people depends on their tax burden, end of story. The 49 percent rate in the CPC budget is well below the 90 percent rate of the Eisenhower era and even the 70 percent rate following the Kennedy tax cut. Because the top one percent's share of income has roughly doubled, from 10 percent to 20 percent, we can get twice as much money from them with the same tax rate. (Isn't arithmetic fun?)
Click to expand...

That argument about tax rates being way higher but no one paid those rates always struck me as a weird one.


Somewhat related, anyone know when in the U.S.'s history we had a completely balanced budget? And I don't mean with a few years with a surplus like the Clinton years, but just zero debt, period.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Oblivion said:
I liked this part:



That argument about tax rates being way higher but no one paid those rates always struck me as a weird one.


Somewhat related, anyone know when in the U.S.'s history we had a completely balanced budget? And I don't mean with a few years with a surplus like the Clinton years, but just zero debt, period.
Click to expand...

last time we had 0 debt was 1836.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Dax01 said:
David Brooks tried to criticize the CPC's budget. This was the result.
Click to expand...

Meh. CEPR stumbled right over the likely reason David is so off base when they mentioned projections and expectations.

Brooks obviously doesn't have access to government economic forecasts (or anyone else's) since he is operating under the illusion that "the economy is finally beginning to take off." The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects 1.4 percent growth this year. It doesn't expect unemployment to fall back to more normal levels until the end of the decade. Virtually all private forecasters have similar growth numbers. If Brooks is getting his picture of an economy that is taking off from someone, he doesn't tell readers who it is. It is also worth noting that CBO has consistently been overly optimistic through this downturn, projecting that the economy would be near back to normal 4 years in the future for the last four years.
Click to expand...

Unemployment is not expected to be near normal levels until the end of the decade. The economy should be operating at near full employment 4 years into the future. We've had that hunch since the recession began. My conclusion is the biggest problem for fiscal policy is David Brooks.
 
E

el retorno

Member
Rand Paul's plan is disgusting because it says ok you get work visas and can stay but know you have to pay taxes but get no benefits that citizens get.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
RustyNails said:
In any case, it is going to happen.

But Obama needs to be more proactive on the issue and advertise it on news. Keep it front and center in people's minds so when the legislation does come to vote, hold the teaparty nuts accountable for voting no and therefore undermining the GOP's message of big tent party (lol). In order to keep their seats secure for 2014, they will screw over GOP's image for 2016.
Click to expand...

Not to single you out Rusty, but why should Obama and Dems go out of there way to make the GOP look bad? A few points:

1. Obama's MO has been not to attack, but let his opponents step in their own shit and bring themselves down.

2. For any bill to pass, it will need GOP support. Those that do vote for it deserve credit. This is a fact. Democrats will not get to Bogart the fame; though it will be apart of Obama's legacy.

3. If you really wanted are political system to be less dysfunctional, then you need to get out of this tit for tat mind set. Obama should thank the work some GOP have done on this bill.

I also find it funny when some praise the extreme Progressive Caucasus's budget while being angry at the extreme Ryan budget. I can understand liking it for using it as a negotiating position, but it's very impractical.

2.1 trillion dollars in stimulus over 2 years with most of that in infrastructure? One, I don't think there exist enough ready projects in that time frame. It takes awhile to design fixes to bridges, roads, and dams. Two, I don't think our economy can absorb that amount of money that quickly as Larry Summers said. Three, once all those projects are finished, then what happens to the unemployed? It's really just a band-aid and not a long-term growth plan.

Also, some of the tax rate changes are very punitive instead of a way to fund the government. I realize they are trying to reduce inequality, but this is just taking money out of the economy in order to destroy it. 49% on income over $1 billion is stupid. Why do this? No one makes that much in one year.

Just saying you can't cheer for the left's version of social engineering while decrying the right's version. This is why I support the practical White House and Senate Budget document. Have to go to a meeting but will respond to any comments later.
 
E

el retorno

Member
fenners said:
That's how it is right now for thousands & thousands of people legally working in the US!
Click to expand...

I mean at least they get the chance to apply for public assistance. These people wouldn't even get that. Its an expanded guest worker for people living and staying here. Its exploitation.

I mean yea its nice they don't have the fear of exportation butwith out a path to citizenship its creating a legal underclass. Its not just.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
el retorno said:
I mean at least they get the chance to apply for public assistance. These people wouldn't even get that. Its an expanded guest worker for people living and staying here. Its exploitation.

I mean yea its nice they don't have the fear of exportation butwith out a path to citizenship its creating a legal underclass. Its not just.
Click to expand...
Wait, I don't think nonimmigrants get public assistance either. When I got my GC I had to check a line that said in case I get unemployed I won't seek public assistance either, and GC is an Immigrant visa.

It's really messed up for guest workers because they contribute to payroll taxes the most, since many of them are in high paying STEM fields. Yet their situation tells them they are supposed to be guests and not retire on social security and medicare.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Clevinger said:
That minimum wage thread is pretty god damn depressing
Click to expand...

I have yet to read the thread, but out of curiosity I decided to check what the minimum wage is in my country (Australia).

It's AUD $15.96 or US $16.55

But it comes at the cost of having the UE rate at a devastating 5.4%
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Jooney said:
I have yet to read the thread, but out of curiosity I decided to check what the minimum wage is in my country (Australia).

It's AUD $15.96 or US $16.55

But it comes at the cost of having the UE rate at a devastating 5.4%
Click to expand...

This is what I don't get. We can point at other countries with high minimum wages, that have less unemployment than us and people will still argue that it will put people out of business. The only people I've ever worked for that payed minimum wage in the first place were big chain restaurants, I've worked at mom and pop places and they tend to pay really well.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Clevinger said:
Don't. You literally have people saying "Why should we change anything for complete losers living on minimum wage?" And not jokingly.
Click to expand...

There was another recent MW thread, after Obama's comments in the SotU, and that was depressing to read.

The disdain that some Americans have for their own fellow citizens at the lower levels of the economic ladder is disgusting.
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
"embarrassed millionaires" indeed.
Small business hire very few people and typically want to keep them for longer so they pay better and/or are better at scheduling than big ones.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Jooney said:
There was another recent MW thread, after Obama's comments in the SotU, and that was depressing to read.

The disdain that some Americans have for their own fellow citizens at the lower levels of the economic ladder is disgusting.
Click to expand...

It's because people buy into the "American Dream" which is a really nice sentiment, but is far from true for a vast majority of people. You are far more likely to stay at the same economic level you were born into or go into a lower one than you are to climb the ladder.

In fact it's less of a ladder and more of a sheer cliff. Ladder implies you can do it alone, with no one else when we all know that isn't true.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Dr. Pangloss said:
Not to single you out Rusty, but why should Obama and Dems go out of there way to make the GOP look bad? A few points:

1. Obama's MO has been not to attack, but let his opponents step in their own shit and bring themselves down.

2. For any bill to pass, it will need GOP support. Those that do vote for it deserve credit. This is a fact. Democrats will not get to Bogart the fame; though it will be apart of Obama's legacy.

3. If you really wanted are political system to be less dysfunctional, then you need to get out of this tit for tat mind set. Obama should thank the work some GOP have done on this bill.

I also find it funny when some praise the extreme Progressive Caucasus's budget while being angry at the extreme Ryan budget. I can understand liking it for using it as a negotiating position, but it's very impractical.

2.1 trillion dollars in stimulus over 2 years with most of that in infrastructure? One, I don't think there exist enough ready projects in that time frame. It takes awhile to design fixes to bridges, roads, and dams. Two, I don't think our economy can absorb that amount of money that quickly as Larry Summers said. Three, once all those projects are finished, then what happens to the unemployed? It's really just a band-aid and not a long-term growth plan.

Also, some of the tax rate changes are very punitive instead of a way to fund the government. I realize they are trying to reduce inequality, but this is just taking money out of the economy in order to destroy it. 49% on income over $1 billion is stupid. Why do this? No one makes that much in one year.

Just saying you can't cheer for the left's version of social engineering while decrying the right's version. This is why I support the practical White House and Senate Budget document. Have to go to a meeting but will respond to any comments later.
Click to expand...

It's as impractical as making a budget that magically assumes Obamacare gets repealed. So while I like the general idea of their budget, it's largely a joke for all practical purposes in 2013.

There's a middle ground here that no one seems to be aiming for. If you eliminate $500b in tax breaks/subsidies, $500b in Medicare savings by having the federal government directly negotiate drug prices and waste cuts (no cuts to benefits)...you're already at $1t. Throw in some other smart reforms plus at least $50b in military spending cuts everyone can agree on and it wouldn't be hard to eliminate nearly $2t in spending over 10 years without hurting people or raising tax rates.

But of course the White House is in bed with Pharma as long as the ACA exists, and both republicans and democrats wouldn't double cross Pharma either. So get ready for Social Security cuts for no reason other than Obama wants a big deal the Serious People Beltway can champion.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Dr. Pangloss said:
I also find it funny when some praise the extreme Progressive Caucasus's budget while being angry at the extreme Ryan budget. I can understand liking it for using it as a negotiating position, but it's very impractical.
Click to expand...

I agree that politically its DOA but the point is that there are at least some people in Washington who haven't bought into the debt hysteria and actually want to pivot the conversation to jobs.

From my understanding, the CPC budget actually goes into at least some detail as to how things will be costed, and how much the deficit will be brought down in the long term. On the other hand, Ryan's budget specifies tax cuts paid for by the removal of unnamed loopholes, and says that revenues will be brought in through unrealistic growth rates in the economy.

I understand that Ryan is the House Budget Committee chair, so that naturally his budget will receive the most attention. However, the progressive caucus is almost twice as large at the tea party caucus, yet their budget plan receives next to no attention in the MSM. It's little wonder that there are a few people here cheerleading it on, because the average joe isn't going to hear about it when he turns on the TV.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
From: Tomas Young

I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn’t lying a sin? Isn’t murder a sin? Aren’t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness.

—Tomas Young
Click to expand...

Goddamn.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Goddamn.
Click to expand...

Wow. A real version of Dylan's Masters of War.

"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
A pretty noteworthy move here..

Supreme Court to release same-day audio of marriage arguments

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-release-same-day-audio-of-marriage-arguments

The Supreme Court will release audio recordings on the same day it hears oral arguments over same-sex marriage — a rare step reserved for especially high-profile cases.

The court will hear oral arguments next Tuesday in a challenge to California's ban on same-sex marriage, and the next day will hear a challenge to the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

The court announced Tuesday afternoon that audio of both arguments will be released the same day.

It will be the first time the court has released same-day audio since the three-day arguments last year over President Obama's healthcare law. The court generally releases audio recordings at the end of the week, except for its highest-profile cases.
Click to expand...

So I guess everyone in the world is going to be dissecting Roberts' and Kennedy's questions/comments. I can't believe it's almost here!
 
S

speculawyer

Member
HylianTom said:
A pretty noteworthy move here..

Supreme Court to release same-day audio of marriage arguments

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-release-same-day-audio-of-marriage-arguments



So I guess everyone in the world is going to be dissecting Roberts' and Kennedy's questions/comments. I can't believe it's almost here!
Click to expand...
I'm getting the feeling that many in the GOP would LOVE to have the Supreme Court declare gay marriage to be a fundamental right.

That way, this issue which as become a wedge issue favoring the left would just instantly go away. They could then bluster about wanting to put 'common sense' judges on the court while privately being relieved that they don't need to deal with the issue any more.
 
3

3rdman

Member
speculawyer said:
Nothing restores confidence like an 8-year quagmire that ends by buying off the insurgents and then getting out of the country.
Click to expand...

I expect stupidity from them so no surprise there...I was genuinely shocked that he said that Saddam never went into Kuwait. Did I remember Desert Storm wrongly??? Wasn't it Saddam that burned the oil fields on his way OUT of Kuwait?
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
speculawyer said:
I'm getting the feeling that many in the GOP would LOVE to have the Supreme Court declare gay marriage to be a fundamental right.

That way, this issue which as become a wedge issue favoring the left would just instantly go away. They could then bluster about wanting to put 'common sense' judges on the court while privately being relieved that they don't need to deal with the issue any more.
Click to expand...

That's the sense I'm getting. The younger Republicans I know especially want the issue over and done with so that other young folks don't associate them with the extremists in their party. And the older Republicans I know (mostly those in my family) admit that the cause is lost.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
speculawyer said:
I'm getting the feeling that many in the GOP would LOVE to have the Supreme Court declare gay marriage to be a fundamental right.

That way, this issue which as become a wedge issue favoring the left would just instantly go away. They could then bluster about wanting to put 'common sense' judges on the court while privately being relieved that they don't need to deal with the issue any more.
Click to expand...
Hasn't gotten them to stop trying to repeal Obamacare.
 
R

rocketknight

Member
HylianTom said:
That's the sense I'm getting. The younger Republicans I know especially want the issue over and done with so that other young folks don't associate them with the extremists in their party. And the older Republicans I know (mostly those in my family) admit that the cause is lost.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put it past the loud parts of the party yelling about gay marriage today to continue yelling about it later, and the GOP as a whole will have to deal with the Santorums and Bachmans putting their feet in their mouths. The divide in the party will still exist, will still be a problem, and will still benefit the rest of us.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
speculawyer said:
Wow. A real version of Dylan's Masters of War.

"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
Click to expand...
I've been listening to Dylan a ton lately. It's sad how much of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan still applies today.
 
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