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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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I wonder if these morons realize:

  • We Spend more money on Corporate Welfare than traditonal welfare by several fold
  • 70 percent of all handouts go towards White People not minorities like its claimed
  • More than 90 percent of the population will recieve some form of government assistance in their life and soon that number will grow to 100 percent
  • Most people on Welfare don't stay on it for longer than three months, if they do, almost ALL are off it after 18 months. You literally CANNOT live off welfare. It's practically impossible.
  • Welfare makes up a small part of the budget.

Fucking A.

It's in-fucking-sane. I really just need to delete Facebook entirely.
 

Chichikov

Member
Did Romney's campaign show us that money isn't everything? I think Booker could beat Christie, but you can't make that statement either way right now since Sandy is still so fresh. If Christie can stop himself from berating people on the boardwalk like he did this summer then yea he's got this all sown up.
I don't think it's going to serve Booker's long term political aspirations
once you go black!
to run against Christie at this point.
 

Trouble

Banned
Did Romney's campaign show us that money isn't everything? I think Booker could beat Christie, but you can't make that statement either way right now since Sandy is still so fresh. If Christie can stop himself from berating people on the boardwalk like he did this summer then yea he's got this all sown up.

If Sandy were taken out of the equation Booker would have a shot, the problem is you can't. Say what you will about his politics, Christie showed he cares less about partisan politics than actually doing his job and people in N.J. won't forget that soon.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I don't think it's going to serve Booker's long term political aspirations
once you go black!
to run against Christie at this point.

I agree, but saying Christie can't be beaten by one of the guys who would have one of the best chances of doing it just because Christie raised a bunch of money after a popularity bump from his Sandy response is just silly.

If Sandy were taken out of the equation Booker would have a shot, the problem is you can't. Say what you will about his politics, Christie showed he cares less about partisan politics than actually doing his job and people in N.J. won't forget that soon.

Pretty much. But like I said, all you've got to do is wait for him to berate someone on the NJ boardwalk again and you've got a race. The man has a hard time with his temper and it can easily come back to bite him.
 
I believe you are correct . . . but that is because he's got a pussy administration.

If it were LBJ in office, you know he'd do it. Bill Clinton might have done it as well. You just do it and then say "see you in court" if they want to challenge it. Would it work? Who knows? But if the GOP is willing to bargain with the full faith & credit of the USA then Obama should be willing to bargain with the $1 Trillion platinum coin. It is all about leverage & brinksmanship.


Wat? LOL!

The argument seems to be that if Obama was taken to court, the Supreme Court would not be able to rule against him without violating the 14th Amendment. But that seems like such a simplistic view that I get the feeling Obama's lawyers are thinking something else. Or maybe they agree, but are keeping it in the cards just in case.
 

Trouble

Banned
Pretty much. But like I said, all you've got to do is wait for him to berate someone on the NJ boardwalk again and you've got a race. The man has a hard time with his temper and it can easily come back to bite him.

Heh, I was going to say unless Christie fucks up bad. Half the time going off half cocked works in his favor, the other half he just looks like an asshole.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
The argument seems to be that if Obama was taken to court, the Supreme Court would not be able to rule against him without violating the 14th Amendment. But that seems like such a simplistic view that I get the feeling Obama's lawyers are thinking something else. Or maybe they agree, but are keeping it in the cards just in case.

I hate to say it but I think they may see the debt ceiling as a useful political tool. When it isn't being abused in the way it currently is. If you think about it a Dem in a conservative district or state (or one with presidential aspirations) can vote against it without fear it won't pass (normally that is, not now though) and can go back to their state/district and say they fought against growing government debt. I'm not saying its right, but it used to be a meaningless vote that would always pass which could help senators and congressmen who needed some conservative cred. I think the administration is hoping that the GOP comes to it's senses and realizes why the debt ceiling was put into place in the first place. It's always been a political tool, it was never supposed to be in any danger of not passing.

All that said, if push comes to shove they might find they need to get rid of it and I think they will.

Heh, I was going to say unless Christie fucks up bad. Half the time going off half cocked works in his favor, the other half he just looks like an asshole.

It really depends on why he loses it. Over the summer he looked like a real ass, if he had been up for reelection then he would have probably lost. More than his weight, it's his temper that makes me confident we'll never see a President Christie. If he had to face someone who was good at pushing someone's buttons (like say Biden, I can see Biden being good at covertly getting under someone's skin) Christie would be in trouble in a debate. No one would remember why he exploded, just that he did.
 

watershed

Banned
30. I missed it during the Bush administration. I don't find these people idealistic at all. In fact, what I find most aggravating about it is that they keep claiming to be idealistic while offering singularly terrible arguments for mediocre ideals like the assault weapons ban. But in 1999, an assault weapons ban was apparently considered a huge liberal victory despite its completely ineffective nature. Et cetera.

What I mean is that is has all the classic Sorkin characteristics of of people who make impromptu inspiring speeches, everyone knows and speaks Latin, everyone talks fast and is witty, everyone in the white house is in politics for the right reason (all true believers), and everyone whose against them are vengeful, evil hacks and assholes. As a teen I didn't quite get that these are all Sorkin tropes until I saw his other work. Now its hard to watch a re-run of the west wing and enjoy it.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Really good read.
Although I'm always wary of almost-too-good-to-be-true claims that are not accepted by the discipline's mainstream, they're usually (though not always) not accepted for a reason.
But then again, I know shit and all about criminology; it always struck me as one of those "Regression analysis? sweeeeeeeeeet!! let's (mis)apply it to EVERYTHING!" disciplines, you know, like economics.

THESE ARE OUR TOOLS! YOU DON'T GET TO USE THEM!

I'm likewise wary, but it's worth noting that a lot of the other benefits of reducing lead concentrations (higher IQs, less ADHD) aren't directly related to criminology and don't seem like controversial findings.
Article said:
The EPA now says flatly that there is "no demonstrated safe concentration of lead in blood," and it turns out that even levels under 10 μg/dL can reduce IQ by as much as seven points. An estimated 2.5 percent of children nationwide have lead levels above 5 μg/dL.
As long as the IQ-crime link, or even the IQ-GDP link, is reasonably plausible, there's probably a good case to be made for intervention.
 

somewhat related rant, but I always kinda felt that a core liberal value should be to live in a society where charities aren't needed in the first place.

It always makes me think of the person who is nice enough to hold a bake sale at church to help lil old Mary pay her hospital bills, but will fight against government funded health care services that would actually address these issues for everyone (so that the bake sale wouldn't be needed in the first place).

I know I know, government is "being forced" while charity is "voluntary". But whenever someone says this, they're telling me that they're more concerned with feeling like they're solving a problem through their supposed altruism, as opposed to actually solving the problem in reality. Sure, charities are fine to fill in the gaps, but I hate the notion that we should look to them to solve structural issues in our society.

Bah.
 
somewhat related rant, but I always kinda felt that a core liberal value should be to live in a society where charities aren't needed in the first place.

It always makes me think of the person who is nice enough to hold a bake sale at church to help lil old Mary pay her hospital bills, but will fight against government funded health care services that would actually address these issues for everyone (so that the bake sale wouldn't be needed in the first place).

I know I know, government is "being forced" while charity is "voluntary". But whenever someone says this, they're telling me that they're more concerned with feeling like they're solving a problem through their supposed altruism, as opposed to actually solving the problem in reality. Sure, charities are fine to fill in the gaps, but I hate the notion that we should look to them to solve structural issues in our society.

Bah.

I'm with you.
 
somewhat related rant, but I always kinda felt that a core liberal value should be to live in a society where charities aren't needed in the first place.

It always makes me think of the person who is nice enough to hold a bake sale at church to help lil old Mary pay her hospital bills, but will fight against government funded health care services that would actually address these issues for everyone (so that the bake sale wouldn't be needed in the first place).

I know I know, government is "being forced" while charity is "voluntary". But whenever someone says this, they're telling me that they're more concerned with feeling like they're solving a problem through their supposed altruism, as opposed to actually solving the problem in reality. Sure, charities are fine to fill in the gaps, but I hate the notion that we should look to them to solve structural issues in our society.

Bah.

Amen.
 

Sometimes I do wish there was such a thing as Divine Retribution.

somewhat related rant, but I always kinda felt that a core liberal value should be to live in a society where charities aren't needed in the first place.

It always makes me think of the person who is nice enough to hold a bake sale at church to help lil old Mary pay her hospital bills, but will fight against government funded health care services that would actually address these issues for everyone (so that the bake sale wouldn't be needed in the first place).

I know I know, government is "being forced" while charity is "voluntary". But whenever someone says this, they're telling me that they're more concerned with feeling like they're solving a problem through their supposed altruism, as opposed to actually solving the problem in reality. Sure, charities are fine to fill in the gaps, but I hate the notion that we should look to them to solve structural issues in our society.

Bah.

Totes, but good luck trying to convince those who think taxes are theft. They're as delusional as Creationists.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
We get jerbs numbers in a few hours, right?

somewhat related rant, but I always kinda felt that a core liberal value should be to live in a society where charities aren't needed in the first place.

It always makes me think of the person who is nice enough to hold a bake sale at church to help lil old Mary pay her hospital bills, but will fight against government funded health care services that would actually address these issues for everyone (so that the bake sale wouldn't be needed in the first place).

I know I know, government is "being forced" while charity is "voluntary". But whenever someone says this, they're telling me that they're more concerned with feeling like they're solving a problem through their supposed altruism, as opposed to actually solving the problem in reality. Sure, charities are fine to fill in the gaps, but I hate the notion that we should look to them to solve structural issues in our society.

Bah.

Agreed.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
lol, Ron Johnson was on Morning Joe and was asked which entitlements the Republicans wanted to cut and said that it's Obama's responsibility to pick and "take the lead".
 
No kidding. Lead? of all things? Something I would've never saw coming. And to think we spent all this time writing boks with several hundred theories on American crime and the psychological reasons for it and it all comes down to an element on a periodic table.

Goddamn, science.

There's no science here, just correlation.
 

dabig2

Member
That's decent. I'm hoping we can get to a point where 200K jobs added is expected though. We desperately need to grow this economy at a far quicker pace.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
god every time my tv is on and I hear fucking Al Sharpton come on MSNBC, it feels like my TV caught a deadly virus or some shit. I just want to fucking vaccinate my TV from his fucking dumb shit

I think Al Sharpton is better as a guest on a 10 minute segment, than a host. Not a good host at all!
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I believe you are correct . . . but that is because he's got a pussy administration.

If it were LBJ in office, you know he'd do it. Bill Clinton might have done it as well. You just do it and then say "see you in court" if they want to challenge it. Would it work? Who knows? But if the GOP is willing to bargain with the full faith & credit of the USA then Obama should be willing to bargain with the $1 Trillion platinum coin. It is all about leverage & brinksmanship.

Why do so many liberals turn past democratic presidents into these mythical made men who don't give a darn about anything. First it's FDR, then it's LBJ, and now Clinton.
 

Tim-E

Member
Two GOP House members voted for Allen West as speaker. Isn't he out of office now?

The Speaker doesn't have to be an acting Congressman. It can literally be anyone they want, it's just that they always vote for a member of the House.


Speaking of that, has there ever been a speaker that wasn't an acting representative?
 

RDreamer

Member
lol, Ron Johnson was on Morning Joe and was asked which entitlements the Republicans wanted to cut and said that it's Obama's responsibility to pick and "take the lead".

Fuck that. Obama needs to come out and say precisely what they're doing. Tell the American people "Look, the Republicans want to cut your social security and medicare, but they want me to be the one to name it, so that I look bad instead of them. I'm not going to let them hide behind me. If they're going to spend all this time hooting and hollering for cuts, then they should be prepared to tell me exactly what they want to cut."
 

Tim-E

Member
Fuck that. Obama needs to come out and say precisely what they're doing. Tell the American people "Look, the Republicans want to cut your social security and medicare, but they want me to be the one to name it, so that I look bad instead of them. I'm not going to let them hide behind me. If they're going to spend all this time hooting and hollering for cuts, then they should be prepared to tell me exactly what they want to cut."

This is exactly why I don't expect the Republicans to come out of this debt ceiling debate looking good. Either Obama gets to say this or he gets to shout about what kind of awful cuts they are proposing.
 
Fuck that. Obama needs to come out and say precisely what they're doing. Tell the American people "Look, the Republicans want to cut your social security and medicare, but they want me to be the one to name it, so that I look bad instead of them. I'm not going to let them hide behind me. If they're going to spend all this time hooting and hollering for cuts, then they should be prepared to tell me exactly what they want to cut."

Unfortunately, Obama has already identified cuts in Medicare and Social Security that he would make.
 

Gruco

Banned
Re: lead, I don't think it's a particularly spectacular or controversial finding - it's something I've been aware of for several years at least. (though maybe I probably have a different perspective on it because I am more familiar w/ the econ lit than the sociology lit - I dunno). Drum's article is the most comprehensive mainstream summary I have ever seen though. Beyond that my mom worked with special needs kids so I remember her horror stories about the ones who grew up with severe lead poisoning. There's definitively a biological explanation, it's not just matching correlations.

Anyway, it's an important bit because it shows how huge environmental factors can be. When conservatives bash the EPA, they usually rant about how it's ruining businesses to protect pretty things. Environmental protection often has huge economic benefits, from the crime and education mentioned by Drum, to medical expenditures.
 
Unfortunately, Obama has already identified cuts in Medicare and Social Security that he would make.

I may be overreaching here, but I think it more has to do with healthcare costs rising even faster than what the Government can afford and I guess his "cuts" ultimately mean "a way to get costs down for everyone."

Eh.

:x
 

slit

Member
I believe you are correct . . . but that is because he's got a pussy administration.

If it were LBJ in office, you know he'd do it. Bill Clinton might have done it as well. You just do it and then say "see you in court" if they want to challenge it. Would it work? Who knows? But if the GOP is willing to bargain with the full faith & credit of the USA then Obama should be willing to bargain with the $1 Trillion platinum coin. It is all about leverage & brinksmanship.

How do we know he won't? If he is going down that road he's not going to announce it beforehand as that would give the GOP time to try and block it. If he sticks to his word this fight will have to default to congress, and since he's made such a big deal about not negotiating over the debt ceiling I don't know how he can renege on that promise without looking like a fool.
 

ido

Member
2 page late reply, but I love reading empty vessel's posts, but I am confused a bit.

And, by the way, unemployment below 8% is horrendous and unacceptable.

I'm confused here by what you mean. Are you saying unemployment shouldn't be lower than 8%?
 

RDreamer

Member
2 page late reply, but I love reading empty vessel's posts, but I am confused a bit.

I'm confused here by what you mean. Are you saying unemployment shouldn't be lower than 8%?

Likely typo. Possibly meant above. Or even "just below." I think he's just saying unemployment at the level it's at is unacceptable.

I'm pretty sure EV believes our government should have in place a job guarantee, so he's not going to say low unemployment is unacceptable :p
 

ido

Member
Likely typo. Possibly meant above. Or even "just below." I think he's just saying unemployment at the level it's at is unacceptable.

I'm pretty sure EV believes our government should have in place a job guarantee, so he's not going to say low unemployment is unacceptable :p

That's what I figured, but it had me slightly confused for a second.
 
Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?
While there are laws in place to regulate how much paper, gold, silver or copper currency can be circulated by the government, there is nothing so clearly stated when it comes to platinum. That door open, the Treasury could have the U.S. Mint melt and mold a few trillion dollars of it, then ship it over to the Federal Reserve for safekeeping until the time comes to pay the bills.

The more difficult part comes sometime after the decision is made to coin the platinum and before the Mint gets to work in sculpting the pieces.

At that point, the American people must decide whose face will adorn the trillion dollar trinket. The process to determine the "specs" of the coin, U.S. Mint Public Affairs Specialist Genevieve Billia warns, must be "determined by legislation," creating the potential for another congressional impasse.

So the trillion dollar coin might not be an option after all, if Congress can block it.
 
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