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[Chichikov]

Unrelated: Why do you always type one sentence out then press enter on your keyboard?

I don't know.
I think it originally came from typing a whole lot of crap on ICQ in the 90s.
I also try to avoid wall of texts at almost all costs - you see on average, GAFs text lines are about 2-3 times longer than a word document and 4-10 longer than a newspaper, this can make reading them a bit taxing; line breaking is not ideal, but I think it makes for a quicker less error prone read and it also render itself better for skimming (and that's a good thing in a web forum if you ask me).

But once people started giving me shit about it here I just doubled down on that because I'm a stubborn dick.

 

[el retorno]

Even Krugman's getting on the trillion dollar coin idea

Krugman's floated the idea before.

 

[Amir0x]

Even Krugman's getting on the trillion dollar coin idea

Printing John Boehner on the coin would almost make it worth it, though

 

[The Librarian]

I don't know.
I think it originally came from typing a whole lot of crap on ICQ in the 90s.
I also try to avoid wall of texts at almost all costs - you see on average, GAFs text lines are about 2-3 times longer than a word document and 4-10 longer than a newspaper, this can make reading them a bit taxing; line breaking is not ideal, but I think it makes for a quicker less error prone read and it also render itself better for skimming (and that's a good thing in a web forum if you ask me).

But once people started giving me shit about it here I just doubled down on that because I'm a stubborn dick.

Well, you didn't do it once there!

Printing John Boehner on the coin would almost make it worth it, though

No. Reagan's face, and above him this quote from Cheney: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

 

[Gotchaye]

Even Krugman's getting on the trillion dollar coin idea

Of course, the problem with all this talk is that it gives Republicans who really don't want the government to default the ability to vote against raising the debt ceiling so as to force the minting of the coin, which they can then criticize Obama for. Any sort of post-legislative option gives Republicans the ability to force Obama's hand.

 

[kehs]

Even Krugman's getting on the trillion dollar coin idea

This still leaves the question of whose face goes on the coin — but that’s easy: John Boehner. Because without him and his colleagues, this wouldn’t be necessary.

Awesome. haha.

 

[RDreamer]

Krugman's floated the idea before.

Ah, didn't know that.

I really wish Obama had more balls. Not necessarily to do this, but to strike fear into the hearts of Republicans that he would do it. It'd be great if he just told them straight up if they try to game this thing, he's going nuclear with both the constitutional route and the coin route. Bye bye debt ceiling forever.

I'd also love for Reid to get some balls on the filibuster reform, too, but alas....

Of course, the problem with all this talk is that it gives Republicans who really don't want the government to default the ability to vote against raising the debt ceiling so as to force the minting of the coin, which they can then criticize Obama for. Any sort of post-legislative option gives Republicans the ability to force Obama's hand.

Yeah, that's why the constitutional route is much better. It sounds saner to people.

 

[fallagin]

Printing John Boehner on the coin would almost make it worth it, though

That would be GLORIOUS!!

 

[PhoenixDark]

So apparently Robert Kennedy was a HUGE dick.

One time he took his "friend" on a sailboat with him – a friend who doesn't know how to sail, mind you – then around lunch time, the wind died down. That same day at around noon he had to meet his father for lunch. Bob, realizing that he would be late if he tried to sail back with the small amount of wind available to him, decided to jump overboard and swim to shore, leaving his clueless friend on the boat by himself. His friend was later rescued by another boat passing by.

He was also on McCarthy's committee to root out "communist spies," and he was a believer in what McCarthy was doing.

You didn't know this? All the Kennedys have been labeled dicks. Ted gets away with it because he lived long enough to atone for his behavior.

 

[empty vessel]

Of course, the problem with all this talk is that it gives Republicans who really don't want the government to default the ability to vote against raising the debt ceiling so as to force the minting of the coin, which they can then criticize Obama for. Any sort of post-legislative option gives Republicans the ability to force Obama's hand.

I would trade criticism of obama for minting of a coin, demonstrating that bond markets can be bypassed, and destroying forever the faux leverage provided to idiots that is the debt ceiling.

 

[Gotchaye]

Yeah, that's why the constitutional route is much better. It sounds saner to people.

Even then. If people are convinced that Obama has a post-legislative option for dealing with the debt-ceiling, then the Republicans have leverage. Unless the fight over the debt ceiling just goes ridiculously badly for the Republicans, they're going to take less of a hit than Obama after Obama has to do something to circumvent the debt ceiling. Obama wants Congress to lift the ceiling. Republicans have no reason to lift the ceiling if refusing to do so only means that Obama has to do something which will probably not play well (as opposed to causing the government to default). I would expect the administration to be extremely reluctant to admit the possibility of any post-legislative option for this reason.

 

[The Librarian]

You didn't know this? All the Kennedys have been labeled dicks. Ted gets away with it because he lived long enough to atone for his behavior.

Sorry I don't know everything about US political history!

 

[RDreamer]

Even then. If people are convinced that Obama has a post-legislative option for dealing with the debt-ceiling, then the Republicans have leverage. Unless the fight over the debt ceiling just goes ridiculously badly for the Republicans, they're going to take less of a hit than Obama after Obama has to do something to circumvent the debt ceiling. Obama wants Congress to lift the ceiling. Republicans have no reason to lift the ceiling if refusing to do so only means that Obama has to do something which will probably not play well (as opposed to causing the government to default). I would expect the administration to be extremely reluctant to admit the possibility of any post-legislative option for this reason.

I think at this point we don't really have to worry that it would come off that way. In order for people to think the republicans have more leverage it'd have to be a much easier thing for Obama to do, and especially have some precedence. I think the options on the table sound like a last ditch effort to save the American people, if anything, and that helps Obama.

 

[Fenderputty]

Of course, the problem with all this talk is that it gives Republicans who really don't want the government to default the ability to vote against raising the debt ceiling so as to force the minting of the coin, which they can then criticize Obama for. Any sort of post-legislative option gives Republicans the ability to force Obama's hand.

Didn't Obama say he wouldn't mint a one trillion dollar coin?

For some reason I think we would defatult, we would see Obama give in and sacrifice spending for a new debt ceiling or, we would see republicans crack under the pressure of not wanting to name specific cuts and tossing us into a major crisis all before we would see a trillion dollar coin being made.

 

[speculawyer]

Even Krugman's getting on the trillion dollar coin idea

Yeah . . . and based on the same reasoning I've been saying . . . yeah, it is silly and not the best way to do things but when you are negotiating with people that want to cause the government to default then a silly and not best way is better than that.

Should President Obama be willing to print a $1 trillion platinum coin if Republicans try to force America into default? Yes, absolutely. He will, after all, be faced with a choice between two alternatives: one that’s silly but benign, the other that’s equally silly but both vile and disastrous. The decision should be obvious.

 

[Gotchaye]

I think at this point we don't really have to worry that it would come off that way. In order for people to think the republicans have more leverage it'd have to be a much easier thing for Obama to do, and especially have some precedence. I think the options on the table sound like a last ditch effort to save the American people, if anything, and that helps Obama.

Then I'm not understanding Obama's game here. On the assumption that if you're right about the politics of this then Obama will agree with you, he should be leaking a willingness to exercise a post-legislative option. There'd be no reason to hide that, especially when there are advantages to laying the groundwork for selling it as an extraordinary measure undertaken to save the country. The only reason to encourage uncertainty when he's actually intending to exercise an option is to make it more likely that the Republicans back down and raise the debt ceiling for fear of causing default.

 

[gkryhewy]

More payroll tax bitchery:
http://www.philly.com/philly/column...r__How_s_your_paycheck__right_about_now_.html

 

[Frank the Great]

I wonder how many of these people bitching about the payroll tax cut praised the stimulus when it passed and subsequently faced heavy criticism by the media.

 

[Fenderputty]

Then I'm not understanding Obama's game here. On the assumption that if you're right about the politics of this then Obama will agree with you, he should be leaking a willingness to exercise a post-legislative option. There'd be no reason to hide that, especially when there are advantages to laying the groundwork for selling it as an extraordinary measure undertaken to save the country. The only reason to encourage uncertainty when he's actually intending to exercise an option is to make it more likely that the Republicans back down and raise the debt ceiling for fear of causing default.

If he's against minting the coin from day one and is then "forced" to do it in order to avoid defaulting, doesn't this also play into that stratagy?

 

[DragonSworne]

Can't Obama arrest and jail House Republicans based on the 14th amendment?

 

[RDreamer]

If he's against minting the coin from day one and is then "forced" to do it to avoid defaulting, doesn't this also play into that stratagy?

That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Gotchaye]

If he's against minting the coin from day one and is then "forced" to do it in order to avoid defaulting, doesn't this also play into that stratagy?

Right, I'm not saying he should be happy about it or that he should be giving some big speech, but he should at least be leaking that he thinks it's a legal thing to do if he agrees that letting it come to that is a political winner. Doing so encourages the Republicans to be intransigent on the debt ceiling, which makes them look worse in the fight, and makes it ultimately more likely that they won't lift it.

And, politics aside, he should probably be advertising that there are post-legislative options if he thinks there truly are, because the uncertainty from the debt ceiling is probably a pretty big deal.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

More payroll tax bitchery:
http://www.philly.com/philly/column...r__How_s_your_paycheck__right_about_now_.html

The ignorant comments never cease to fail.

 

[Xeke]

The ignorant comments never cease to fail.

It's terrible man, I have to somehow cut out the cost of my life by like $40 a month to make up for it! That means I can't order my 3 topping stuffed crust pizza weekly and instead am forced to eat a salad. I'm done, dead a buried. Might as well live in Somalia now.

 

[Black Mamba]

Obama doesn't have to use a coin because the GOP will give in on the debt ceiling.

That said, if it had to be done, I'd rather it be an Obama "please proceed" look than anything else. Just to troll them.

Though, Boehner would be a good one.

 

[kehs]

I hope he dedicates his entire inauguration speech to the debt ceiling.

FWIW, they are already going hard with the "they racked up the bills, they approved, now they don't wan to pay them" point of view. It was in the weekly address and Carney was hitting that point repeatedly today in the white house briefing.

 

[Fenderputty]

Right, I'm not saying he should be happy about it or that he should be giving some big speech, but he should at least be leaking that he thinks it's a legal thing to do if he agrees that letting it come to that is a political winner. Doing so encourages the Republicans to be intransigent on the debt ceiling, which makes them look worse in the fight, and makes it ultimately more likely that they won't lift it.

And, politics aside, he should probably be advertising that there are post-legislative options if he thinks there truly are, because the uncertainty from the debt ceiling is probably a pretty big deal.

Maybe that's why then. Doing the above would sort of force his hand to mint the coin if the republicans don't cooperate woudn't it? Something I'm not sure he wants to do. It's especially agressive if republicans under this scenario are more likely to refuse the lift to the ceiling.

 

[el retorno]

Ah, didn't know that.

I really wish Obama had more balls. Not necessarily to do this, but to strike fear into the hearts of Republicans that he would do it. It'd be great if he just told them straight up if they try to game this thing, he's going nuclear with both the constitutional route and the coin route. Bye bye debt ceiling forever.

I'd also love for Reid to get some balls on the filibuster reform, too, but alas....

The media would roast him. He could POSSIBILY pull the 14th amendment and claim he's just paying already accumulated debt but there is no way he does something like this.

 

[The Librarian]

The media would roast him. He could POSSIBILY pull the 14th amendment and claim he's just paying already accumulated debt but there is no way he does something like this.

Much less of a mouthful than your last username.

 

[DragonSworne]

So will they only raise the debt limit or will they get rid of it completely?

 

[kehs]

So will they only raise the debt limit or will they get rid of it completely?

Month to month raises, if Obama behaves, if not week to week.

 

[Gotchaye]

So will they only raise the debt limit or will they get rid of it completely?

Barring Obama convincing the Republican base that the ceiling is pointless, there's no reason Republicans would vote for infinite future debt.

 

[Fenderputty]

So will they only raise the debt limit or will they get rid of it completely?

Under what scenario do you imagine the house GOP allowing the debt ceiling to be rid of completely?

 

[Gotchaye]

Maybe that's why then. Doing the above would sort of force his hand to mint the coin if the republicans don't cooperate woudn't it? Something I'm not sure he wants to do. It's especially agressive if republicans under this scenario are more likely to refuse the lift to the ceiling.

That's my thinking, basically. RDreamer says it would be a political winner for the Democrats if the Republicans don't lift the debt ceiling and Obama has to take extraordinary measures. Obviously he could be right and Obama incorrectly disagrees, but Obama's probably thought more about this than any of us (and when I say "Obama" I mean someone on his staff). But if the Republicans causing the ceiling not to be raised is good for Obama, and Obama knows this, you would expect leaks from him affirming the legality (not the preferability) of various extraordinary measures.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

It's terrible man, I have to somehow cut out the cost of my life by like $40 a month to make up for it! That means I can't order my 3 topping stuffed crust pizza weekly and instead am forced to eat a salad. I'm done, dead a buried. Might as well live in Somalia now.

The Payroll tax increase results in a tax increase of about $1,000 per $50,000 of income per year. That's a sizable amount, especially in a fragile economy when a family may have only one income, rather than two as they did a few years ago. That's not to mention the Payroll tax is overwhelmingly regressive and arguably hits the poorest Americans the most. I'd be careful about applying what is (presumably) your situation to the situation of every family in America.

There is no excuse for why the FICA tax cut was not extended. I suppose it helped with political expediency in the fiscal cliff "deal" and I would guess that the Bush/Obama tax cuts were more important - though both taxes should obviously have been kept low.

 

[adamsappel]

I wonder how many of these people bitching about the payroll tax cut praised the stimulus when it passed and subsequently faced heavy criticism by the media.

I seem to recall some naysayers at GAF mocking it; conservatives disbelieving that $30 a paycheck could mean that much, liberals thinking it didn't go far enough.

Month to month raises, if Obama behaves, if not week to week.

This would be such horrible optics for the Republicans. Please do it.

 

[RDreamer]

That's my thinking, basically. RDreamer says it would be a political winner for the Democrats if the Republicans don't lift the debt ceiling and Obama has to take extraordinary measures. Obviously he could be right and Obama incorrectly disagrees, but Obama's probably thought more about this than any of us (and when I say "Obama" I mean someone on his staff). But if the Republicans causing the ceiling not to be raised is good for Obama, and Obama knows this, you would expect leaks from him affirming the legality (not the preferability) of various extraordinary measures.

Let me be straight here, I don't think it's an overall political winner. I realize a lot of the media and everyone will probably still roast him and wonder wtf is going on. I'm just saying I think it might be better if he didn't broadcast that there are ways out, because if he does then people believe he's got other ways. Then it comes down to more of a game of chicken rather than a hostage situation that Obama realizes went sour at the last second and did something drastic.

And I'll reiterate again, I really really don't think he'll do it. I doubt he's even toyed with it. The constitutional route probably has a better chance than the coin, because that sounds a lot saner. Still, I doubt he goes that way, too.

 

[kehs]

I seem to recall some naysayers at GAF mocking it; conservatives disbelieving that $30 a paycheck could mean that much, liberals thinking it didn't go far enough.



This would be such horrible optics for the Republicans. Please do it.

I was looking for the norquist quote and found this instead. haha

The debt bill is "one point of leverage," Mr. Boehner says, but he also hedges, noting that it is "not the ultimate leverage." He says that Republicans won't back down from the so-called Boehner rule: that every dollar of raising the debt ceiling will require one dollar of spending cuts over the next 10 years. Rather than forcing a deal, the insistence may result in a series of monthly debt-ceiling increases.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...tm_campaign=Feed:+dailykos/index+(Daily+Kos)#

 

[RustyNails]

Who else is expecting McCain to throw a shitfit at Hagel's confirmation?

 

[Xeke]

The Payroll tax increase results in a tax increase of about $1,000 per $50,000 of income per year. That's a sizable amount, especially in a fragile economy when a family may have only one income, rather than two as they did a few years ago. That's not to mention the Payroll tax is overwhelmingly regressive and arguably hits the poorest Americans the most. I'd be careful about applying what is (presumably) your situation to the situation of every family in America.

There is no excuse for why the FICA tax cut was not extended. I suppose it helped with political expediency in the fiscal cliff "deal" and I would guess that the Bush/Obama tax cuts were more important - though both taxes should obviously have been kept low.

If I made $50,000 a year I'd care ever less. If that money is that important to people they can easily cut their smartphone, HBO, cable, etc.

I don't feel bad for people who are paying for so many luxuries.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I was looking for the norquist quote and found this instead. haha

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...tm_campaign=Feed:+dailykos/index+(Daily+Kos)#

It's cute how Boehner still thinks of himself as a key player in the political process.

 

[RDreamer]

If I made $50,000 a year I'd care ever less. If that money is that important to people they can easily cut their smartphone, HBO, cable, etc.

I don't feel bad for people who are paying for so many luxuries.

Are you being serious with this?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

If I made $50,000 a year I'd care ever less. If that money is that important to people they can easily cut their smartphone, HBO, cable, etc.

I don't feel bad for people who are paying for so many luxuries.

Why are you assuming that the people hurt by the FICA tax are living "the life" with smartphones, cable, internet, etc? Like I said, don't apply your situation to the situation of every family in America. Not everyone - contrary to your beliefs - has those things.

For a family with a more than one child (and gee, sometimes it might be a single parent family!), the money they would have received as a result of the extension of the FICA tax cut could be extremely helpful, especially during a tepid recovery from a recession where millions had lost their jobs and - if they're lucky enough to have a job now - may be playing catch up with things they were unable to pay for earlier (because they didn't have a job and couldn't pay for bills, etc). To say anything else is ignorant.

Unless I'm being trolled but you seem pretty serious.

 

[speculawyer]

Who else is expecting McCain to throw a shitfit at Hagel's confirmation?

Who gives a shit about what McCain thinks anymore?




Oh wait . . . apparently Barack "fold like a wet paper bag" Obama does. :-/

 

[pigeon]

If I made $50,000 a year I'd care ever less. If that money is that important to people they can easily cut their smartphone, HBO, cable, etc.

I don't feel bad for people who are paying for so many luxuries.

What, exactly, do you feel bad about? The payroll tax is heavily regressive and represents the largest tax burden on probably half of all Americans. What possible reason would there be to raise it?

 

[Clevinger]

Just saw Ted Cruz on PBS saying that going over the debt ceiling won't be bad at all. We won't actually default, it'll just be a government shutdown, and that we did it in the 90s.

The interviewer sat there completely stoic while he went on, said nothing, then switched topics to Connecticut.

 

[RDreamer]

Just saw Ted Cruz on PBS saying that going over the debt ceiling won't be bad at all. We won't actually default, it'll just be a government shutdown, and that we did it in the 90s.

The interviewer sat there completely stoic while he went on, said nothing, then switched topics to Connecticut.

Yeah, the Republicans have been priming this thing. They're treating it like it's no big deal at all. The Democrats need to come out and say what it really does, because this isn't an easy concept for people to grasp. They'll fall pretty easily for the Republican marketing if they don't.

 

[el retorno]

Just saw Ted Cruz on PBS saying that going over the debt ceiling won't be bad at all. We won't actually default, it'll just be a government shutdown, and that we did it in the 90s.

The interviewer sat there completely stoic while he went on, said nothing, then switched topics to Connecticut.

Lol and how did the shutdown work out for the republicans then? People like their government services

 

[PhoenixDark]

The funny thing is that once we get close to a shut down and Obama mentions Social Security checks, republicans will throw a fit and accuse him of withholding checks. Just like they did in 2011

 

[Aaron Strife]

http://blog.chron.com/bigjolly/2013/01/is-texas-sen-john-cornyn-ripe-for-a-primary-challenge/

I think it's hilarious whenever conservatives gripe about an Obama tax cut bill adding 4 TRILLION DOLLARS to the deficit. What, was he supposed to let the tax cuts expire? Was he supposed to pay for them by cutting 4 trillion dollars in spending at the same time? I'm not really sure what they wanted here. And they probably aren't either.

Oh well, at least it makes it easy to run attack ads in 2014 in primaries against Republican congressmen. "John Fucker voted to add 4 trillion dollars to the deficit!"