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[The Librarian]

Absolutely. There have been racial problems in Europe for centuries. Anti-semitism alone in Europe is ingrained from as early as the Black Death. Jews - as a group noticeably separated from 'society' - were often blamed and targeted for supposedly spreading or causing the plague. Regional lords in places like Switzerland or Austria would protect the Jews in their castle for as long as they could. Belgians were some of the most brutal groups in the race for Africa.

However the racial dynamic in central Europe still remains very different from the US (and the UK). Part of this will be to do with the local demographies but a large part will also be down to local insecurity. Dax (I think?) recently posted that map of the world over time - look at the instability in central/eastern Europe. Constant upheaval and destruction does hideous damage to the collective/national psyche.

Ha, that was a tweet.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

The difference is in major politics in US vs Germany/UK, etc.

Racism definitely exists in Europe, in fact having many Indian relatives/friends spread out in NA, Australia, Europe, Australia is where we have had the most number of racist incidents.

The difference at least from what I can see is that in the US we have a major political party that actively suggests things like how good things were in the 1960s, that black families are to blame for their own problems, that they are lazy, let's not forget immigration talk, that black people vote for Obama only because he is black, that black people should be Republicans because Democrats founded the KKK.

And when you have someone there (my sister was recently visiting me in the US from UK) looking at how much opposition is there to Obamacare which would significantly benefit minorities, they can't understand why someone would argue over more people having access to healthcare.

Other developed countries have racist parties, but they are usually minor and not with wide support.

Also, it is more blown up since America prides itself on spreading democracy and it's ideals in the world.

 

[sc0la]

The GOP and Irony are like goddamn magnets.

Don't know how they work.

There is nothing ironic about it, it is very calculated messaging. That "racism is over" supports specific policy goals they advocate. They couldn't give two shits about Rosa Parks, hence no irony.
Retracted, it seems to meet most definitions or irony, my broader point stands however.

 

[Wilsongt]

GOPpers gonna GOP.

I'm sure Rosa parks would not have given up her health insurance for a poor, white individual.

Bah. There's a healthcare message in there somewhere.

This is a perfect example of why I cannot wrap my head around Log Cabin Republicans.

Florida Tea Party Leader Bashes Gay GOP Group

Danita Kilcullen, the founder of a Florida Tea Party group, accused the Florida Republican party of being taken over by "gay thugs."

In an email written earlier in November and obtained by the Florida Sun-Sentinel, Kilcullen argued that the Log Cabin Republicans, a pro-same-sex GOP group, has "all but taken over" the Broward Republican Executive Committee. Kilcullen called the Log Cabin Republicans a "thug organization" motivated by their own "special interests."

In the email Kilcullen also warns that she would be "damned" if she was forced to hire someone with tattoos, piercings, or a man in a dress, a reference to the Senate's passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA).

Read the email below:

“We must fight with all we have... We must put pressure on the House like has never been seen before. I'll be damned if I will ever be forced to hire someone with orange hair, body/neck/face covered with tattoos, multiple piercings, or a man in a dress... or for that matter, a demonstrative effeminate male or purposeful butch-looking female. The Log Cabins are the same lobbyist organization that has all but taken over BREC; and besides that, we have someone on the Board of BREC who is using her position to openly put pressure on some BREC members to stand for same-sex marriage.



This is the same group who, based on nothing other than his recent stand for gay marriage, supports Chris Christie and who publicly worked against Cuccinelli for his stand for traditional marriage. Keep in mind, this is a thug organization with only their own "special interests" in play. I wonder what they will do with democrat Charlie Crist now running for governor? I'm betting on them to vote for Charlie, along with some other mousey republicans. I will now be accused of 'splitting' BREC. I am not! I am in standing with the Republican Platform, which is what I stated the very night I was sworn-on to BREC. We must stop this in short!

Kilcullen's email, according to the Sun-Sentinel, was in response to a press release from Broward Log Cabin Republican member Andy Eddy praising the Senate's passage of ENDA. Below is Eddy's email:

Log Cabin Republicans Praises Senate Passage of ENDA, Unveils GOP House Strategy



Washington, D.C. — Today, the United States Senate passed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), legislation which provides employment protections for LGBT individuals in the workplace, with the votes of 10 Republicans. Log Cabin Republicans Executive Director Gregory T. Angelo issued the following statement:



After languishing in legislative limbo for 17 years, ENDA has finally passed the United States Senate in a vote that would not have been possible had Republicans not provided the margin of victory on the critical cloture vote earlier in the week.



While many are already beginning to wave the white flag on passage of ENDA in the House, Log Cabin Republicans has an optimistic view having recently met with nearly 50 House Republicans making the case that no one should be fired simply because they're gay. We are also encouraged by recent polling that finds a majority of Republicans in the U.S. are in favor of ENDA’s passage. The House GOP also just recently overwhelmingly passed legislation that, like ENDA, explicitly includes protections for LGBT individuals — the Violence Against Women Act.



Undoubtedly, the Republican Party is going through a cultural shift as more Republican legislators consistently step up for LGBT Americans. LCR believes this momentum already existing in the Party will help propel this bill to the House floor. Once there, we're confident it will pass. We encourage GOP House leadership of the 113th Congress to allow a conscience vote on ENDA and make history once again.

Terrible, terrible news for Kay Hagan.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So today is the administration's self-imposed deadline for getting healthcare.gov working for the "vast majority of users", aka over 80%. (Included in that 20% that it won't work for are people who are not eligible.)

The self-report card they put out is mostly PR fluff but it has a few interesting nuggets. Among them, the federal site was only up for 43% of the time the first week of November, and 72% of the time the second week. After it's been over 90%.

We had reports a while back that sign ups really picked up in the first half of November, despite the site not being up and running but half the time. So I'm hopeful the full month numbers are even better. They need to be.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm sure Rosa parks would not have given up her health insurance for a poor, white individual.

Bah. There's a healthcare message in there somewhere.

This is a perfect example of why I cannot wrap my head around Log Cabin Republicans.

Florida Tea Party Leader Bashes Gay GOP Group



Terrible, terrible news for Kay Hagan.

Why does that confuse you. They're trying to change the party. They agree with the economics just not the lgbt rights of which the party is generally changing on. Tea party groups aren't the GOP.

 

[Wilsongt]

Why does that confuse you. They're trying to change the party. They agree with the economics just not the lgbt rights of which the party is generally changing on. Tea party groups aren't the GOP.

The current Republican party, which is controlled by TeaTards, isn't going to be cooperative. The fact that they are trying to ally with a group that is constantly against them is strange. The same with women and Republicans.

I understand the whole economically conservative, but not being a gay social conservative.

 

[zero shift]

The difference is in major politics in US vs Germany/UK, etc.

Racism definitely exists in Europe, in fact having many Indian relatives/friends spread out in NA, Australia, Europe, Australia is where we have had the most number of racist incidents.

The difference at least from what I can see is that in the US we have a major political party that actively suggests things like how good things were in the 1960s, that black families are to blame for their own problems, that they are lazy, let's not forget immigration talk, that black people vote for Obama only because he is black, that black people should be Republicans because Democrats founded the KKK.

And when you have someone there (my sister was recently visiting me in the US from UK) looking at how much opposition is there to Obamacare which would significantly benefit minorities, they can't understand why someone would argue over more people having access to healthcare.

Other developed countries have racist parties, but they are usually minor and not with wide support.

Also, it is more blown up since America prides itself on spreading democracy and it's ideals in the world.

Thank you. This is the main difference I see in terms of America vs Europe.

 

[zero shift]

Off-topic but this is for a school assignment. Does anybody know how many people died under Communist regimes. Every time I try to find something it usually references The Black Book of Communism. The differences between the low and high estimates is also ridiculous. Ho Chi Minh's land reform killed anywhere from 50,000 to 972,000 people....what?

 

[Mario]

GOPpers gonna GOP.

Gotta love the assertion that the elimination of forced segregation suddenly and magically ended racism itself.

"The law of the land is no longer explicitly prejudiced! Racism is no more!"

 

[Diablos]

lol @ GOP thinking people will actually think that they think racism is over.

Bwaahahahaha.

 

[PhoenixDark]

To be fair, the GOP has since issued a correction tweet
https://twitter.com/GOP/status/407216474122498048

 

[Piecake]

Off-topic but this is for a school assignment. Does anybody know how many people died under Communist regimes. Every time I try to find something it usually references The Black Book of Communism. The differences between the low and high estimates is also ridiculous. Ho Chi Minh's land reform killed anywhere from 50,000 to 972,000 people....what?

50+ million?

The estimates for the great leap forward alone are 15-45 million. Its a pretty stupid assignment, like you said, because the estimates are all over the place

 

[The Librarian]

I don't get it. If Rosa Parks ended racism, how did John Roberts end it again earlier this year?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I bet rosa parks was a republican just like lincoln, frederick douglass and mlk jr

@rupertmurdoch 15m
US moving ever- faster to class society. Equal opportunity ideal must be restored and progress made or all will suffer.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Piecake]

I bet rosa parks was a republican just like lincoln, frederick douglass and mlk jr

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Clearly we should give more tax breaks to rich people so that they can create jobs

 

[Oblivion]

dat bubble

I've been tweeting her dumb ass all day yesterday trying to get her to respond to the fact that her boss's idiot right-wing colleagues were the ones responsible for her current predicament. Needless to say, she didn't respond.

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't get it. If Rosa Parks ended racism, how did John Roberts end it again earlier this year?

HA!

 

[War Peaceman]

Ha, that was a tweet.

Ah yes, twitter stalker ahoy. At least I did credit the correct person!

The difference is in major politics in US vs Germany/UK, etc.

Racism definitely exists in Europe, in fact having many Indian relatives/friends spread out in NA, Australia, Europe, Australia is where we have had the most number of racist incidents.

The difference at least from what I can see is that in the US we have a major political party that actively suggests things like how good things were in the 1960s, that black families are to blame for their own problems, that they are lazy, let's not forget immigration talk, that black people vote for Obama only because he is black, that black people should be Republicans because Democrats founded the KKK.

And when you have someone there (my sister was recently visiting me in the US from UK) looking at how much opposition is there to Obamacare which would significantly benefit minorities, they can't understand why someone would argue over more people having access to healthcare.

Other developed countries have racist parties, but they are usually minor and not with wide support.

Also, it is more blown up since America prides itself on spreading democracy and it's ideals in the world.

Well, racist parties do exist across Europe and have done in recent history. Perhaps not to the consistent level of popularity that the GOP has. However, the key difference is that European racism is mostly about an external threat. Of further immigration, of further integration (within EU), of an imagined fear that the foreigners will take away our jobs or destroy our culture. Really the racism is a means of articulating other fears - economic, cultural, social.

These play a part in the USA too, as far as I can see. Except that the GOP/'White America' faces a real, existential threat. North America was never for any meaningful time a white-dominated continent in numerical terms yet has held the power for so long. They've fought very hard to keep it, too. That power is for the first time being truly eroded. A fairer balance of power is coming, slowly, and the world they long for is fading. Good riddance, I say, but it is a genuine change shaped by the demography. Europe's threat is imagined, by contrast.

Both of these are massive generalisations, of course!

 

[RustyNails]

Can someone explain to me why CNN is devoting an hour to a woman who said she went to heaven and came back? I am trying to understand. Please, anyone.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Your first mistake was watching CNN in the first place.

 

[thepotatoman]

Well, racist parties do exist across Europe and have done in recent history. Perhaps not to the consistent level of popularity that the GOP has. However, the key difference is that European racism is mostly about an external threat. Of further immigration, of further integration (within EU), of an imagined fear that the foreigners will take away our jobs or destroy our culture. Really the racism is a means of articulating other fears - economic, cultural, social.

These play a part in the USA too, as far as I can see. Except that the GOP/'White America' faces a real, existential threat. North America was never for any meaningful time a white-dominated continent in numerical terms yet has held the power for so long. They've fought very hard to keep it, too. That power is for the first time being truly eroded. A fairer balance of power is coming, slowly, and the world they long for is fading. Good riddance, I say, but it is a genuine change shaped by the demography. Europe's threat is imagined, by contrast.

Both of these are massive generalisations, of course!

I do have to say USA would never do something as insensitive as put a ban on hijabs, and I've heard a lot of people talk about immigrants not culturally integrating as a big part of racial politics in Europe. In USA integration problems seems mostly limited to snide comments about having to include a Spanish option on government documents and citing nonconformist business attire as a reason for minority unemployment. Even racists don't seem to give a crap about the chinatown like areas across the country from my experience, and honestly most people are getting used to press 2 for Spanish as just a way of life as time goes on, not something to be upset about.

Really, it's the image of the welfare queen that runs most racism in this country, and the image of violent drug selling gang members fueling the rest of it. All US racism draws from those two stereotypes.

 

[Diablos]

I bet rosa parks was a republican just like lincoln, frederick douglass and mlk jr

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Uh a lot of people are already suffering, where has this fucker been

No such thing as racism or class -- yet -- in GOP world.

Also free market will correct itself, trolol.

 

[B-Dubs]

Can someone explain to me why CNN is devoting an hour to a woman who said she went to heaven and came back? I am trying to understand. Please, anyone.

Who is doing the hour?

EDIT: Wow, how did they get AC to do that one?

 

[leroidys]

The best part is the banana throwing soccer fans. "Its not that big of a deal guys!" Or how about the banning of religious symbols? "The crescent moon encourages extremism!"

I think your best bet would be to just give a range, citing the source. Otherwise you're looking at months or years of research.

 

[speculawyer]

Can someone explain to me why CNN is devoting an hour to a woman who said she went to heaven and came back? I am trying to understand. Please, anyone.

Because that shit gets ratings.

Sell-outs. :-(

 

[Joe Molotov]

Can someone explain to me why CNN is devoting an hour to a woman who said she went to heaven and came back? I am trying to understand. Please, anyone.

I just hope it doesn't come out later that the women told her superiors that she hadn't been to Heaven.

 

[Oblivion]

So I had a typically annoying and unproductive argument with some right-winger on the twitters who pulled the usual "dems are the real racists cause Abraham Lincoln was a Republican" card. He then went on to defend the confederate flag as something that's been perverted by KKK (who were also Democrats). Then he whined about why no one complains about the Black Panthers.

 

[RustyNails]

I just hope it doesn't come out later that the women told her superiors that she hadn't been to Heaven.

 

[RustyNails]

Who is doing the hour?

EDIT: Wow, how did they get AC to do that one?

I didn't check. Just watched it for a bit and saw the ridiculousness of it on a news channel. Hey, why not spend the hour on how Medicare passed and became a law? Or about the rising healthcare costs? Immigration? No wonder this country is dumb dumb dumb.

 

[Mario]

I didn't check. Just watched it for a bit and saw the ridiculousness of it on a news channel. Hey, why not spend the hour on how Medicare passed and became a law? Or about the rising healthcare costs? Immigration? No wonder this country is dumb dumb dumb.

Running any of "The top 5 misconceptions about health care/taxes/immigration/education/founding fathers/the constitution/the bill of rights/judicial process/political process" would be a huge service to the nation I'm sure.

Sadly, "The top 5 Kardashian moments" has more chance of airing (indeed, I imagine it does air in multiple forms already).

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I didn't check. Just watched it for a bit and saw the ridiculousness of it on a news channel. Hey, why not spend the hour on how Medicare passed and became a law? Or about the rising healthcare costs? Immigration? No wonder this country is dumb dumb dumb.

They were advertising all week.

People love stories that make them feel good about their anxieties and what bigger anxiety is there than death?

So I had a typically annoying and unproductive argument with some right-winger on the twitters who pulled the usual "dems are the real racists cause Abraham Lincoln was a Republican" card. He then went on to defend the confederate flag as something that's been perverted by KKK (who were also Democrats). Then he whined about why no one complains about the Black Panthers.

Mlk was a republican. And Clarence Thomas. Check mate liberal

 

[Ether_Snake]

Who is doing the hour?

EDIT: Wow, how did they get AC to do that one?

His show has always been a shitty tabloid.

 

[The Librarian]

About 100,000 people signed up for health insurance through the online federal exchange last month, a roughly four-fold increase from October even as a team of U.S. government and contractor programmers was fixing the troubled Affordable Care Act website, said a person familiar with program’s progress.

...

The person who provided the November enrollment figures, said the data points to a steady increase in sign-ups even before major website improvements were completed at the end of November.

Only 26,794 people signed up for private plans in the federal marketplace in October, while 79,391 enrolled through 14 states which, along with the District of Columbia, are running their own exchanges and websites. Most have experienced fewer technical problems. The federal website serves 36 states.

Obamacare is doomed, there will be a Republican wave election next year, Obama is the next George Bush...did I miss anything?

 

[Diablos]

Obamacare is doomed, there will be a Republican wave election next year, Obama is the next George Bush...did I miss anything?

Good. Keep climbing. It'll make it harder and harder for the GOP to make a case for repealing ACA next time they shut down the Government like 5 year olds.

 

[WayneMorse]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/new-hampshire-ex-senator-to-challenge-sen-shaheen

Welp...fuck.

Hagan isn't doomed but Shaheen is.

 

[theprodigy]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/new-hampshire-ex-senator-to-challenge-sen-shaheen

Welp...fuck.

Hagan isn't doomed but Shaheen is.

such an awful troll

 

[pigeon]

There have been racial problems in Europe for decades, the difference now is that it can no longer be swept under the carpet, simply due to demographic shifts. It's no coincidence that every thread on European race issues here is dominated by an oblivious, ignorant group of young white European who "don't get it" no matter how blatant the issue is.

I don't want to derail this thread into another European racism vs. American racism thread (as I noted in other threads of that nature, this is a little like arguing whether Pizza Hut is healthier than Taco Bell), but I tend to agree, although I would put the origin of European racism a little earlier (like 200 years). Racism is an endemic global problem -- but one thing America has that Europe doesn't have is that it's essentially impossible, thanks to slavery, to argue that America has NEVER had a history of domestic racism, while there are still lots of Europeans who are happy to argue that for Europe, despite it being obviously nonsensical.

 

[Diablos]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/new-hampshire-ex-senator-to-challenge-sen-shaheen

Welp...fuck.

Hagan isn't doomed but Shaheen is.

What proxy are you using...

 

[PhoenixDark]

Scott Brown might run in NH too, which strikes me as pathetic carpet bagging, even if he has some ties to the state. I'd imagine there are some crazy tea party types waiting to welcome him with an ugly primary challenge.

 

[Metaphoreus]

I'm going to resurrect the Hobby Lobby discussion long enough to direct your attention to the following blog posts by Eugene Volokh:

The first outlines the several posts he'll be making regarding the case and the issues it raises.

The second summarizes the history and basic provisions of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the 1993 law that will be at the heart of the case.

Until about 1960 (more or less), the rule was what one might call the statute-by-statute exemption model — religious objectors got exemptions if and only if the statute provided for one, as, for instance, draft law historically had.

...

But then in Braunfeld v. Brown (1961) the Supreme Court seemed to suggest that the Free Exercise Clause might sometimes constitutionally mandate exemptions. And in Sherbert v. Verner (1963), the Court expressly adopted the constitutional exemption model, under which sincere religious objectors had a presumptive constitutional right to an exemption. Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972) reaffirmed this, and the period from 1963 to 1990 is often labeled the Sherbert/Yoder era of Free Exercise Clause law.

...

Then in 1990, the Court changed course: In Employment Division v. Smith, a 5-Justice majority returned to the statute-by-statute exemption regime, and rejected the constitutional exemption regime. So long as a law doesn’t discriminate against religious objectors, but generally applies to people regardless of their religiosity, it’s constitutionally valid. If religious objectors want an exemption, they need to go to the legislature. (This is an oversimplification, but let’s go with it for now.)

Smith was broadly condemned, both by the Left and the Right. That coalition has since largely fallen apart, but it was strong back then: In 1993, Congress enacted the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which gave religious objectors a statutory presumptive entitlement to exemption from generally applicable laws (subject to strict scrutiny). “Government may substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person . . . is the least restrictive means of furthering [a] compelling governmental interest.” The vote in the House was unanimous, and in the Senate was 97-3.

Based on the first two posts, it seems that this series will be quite informative, so I thought you all might be interested.

 

[The Librarian]

https://twitter.com/PoliticalCharts/status/407552832082956289/photo/1

 

[empty vessel]

I'm going to resurrect the Hobby Lobby discussion long enough to direct your attention to the following blog posts by Eugene Volokh:

The first outlines the several posts he'll be making regarding the case and the issues it raises.

The second summarizes the history and basic provisions of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the 1993 law that will be at the heart of the case.

Corporations have no protected religious liberties. They ought to have no protected liberties at all, and this should be obvious. That they even receive speech protections is blasphemous.

 

[gcubed]

Obamacare is doomed, there will be a Republican wave election next year, Obama is the next George Bush...did I miss anything?

besides the website disaster, if you took anything from Romneycare the signups are heavily back loaded.

What was the administrations goal for the first year enrollment?

 

[Metaphoreus]

Corporations have no protected religious liberties. They ought to have no protected liberties at all, and this should be obvious. That they even receive speech protections is blasphemous.

Cute. I've long suspected you take government to be a god, and this tends to confirm it.

Anywho, I didn't come in here to argue, but to point to a resource that should be helpful for anyone wanting to understand the Hobby Lobby case. But, on the question of corporate rights, Volokh does say this (in the first post I linked to above):

Second, should the challengers’ claims lose because the businesses here are corporations rather than sole proprietorships? News coverage of the case has focused on the question whether corporations can assert RFRA rights. There is also a related question of whether, even if corporations can’t assert such rights, the owners of closely held corporations can assert their own RFRA rights and argue that burdens on the corporations are actually burdens on them as owners. I think that any discussion of corporate rights should recognize that corporations are legal fictions, and that they should have rights only to the extent that such rights protect the rights of actual humans. Nonetheless, I think that corporations and corporate rights are often useful legal fictions, precisely because they help protect actual humans. And in this context of closely held corporations, the business owners should be entitled to be protected either through their own claims, or through their corporations’ claims.

By the way, there's now a third post up. I won't update the thread (or my comments) each time there's an update, but since I'm already leaving this comment, I thought I'd point out the new post.

 

[WayneMorse]

https://twitter.com/PoliticalCharts/status/407552832082956289/photo/1

I wish we were more like the UK where no one cares about your religious affiliation in politics and being overly religious is a bad thing.

For example, Tony Blair is extremely religious, but they kept it largely a secret through his time as PM because if people knew how religious he was it would negatively affect his image.

I was surprised to learn that no one gave a shit that Ed Miliband is an atheist too.

 

[RustyNails]

besides the website disaster, if you took anything from Romneycare the signups are heavily back loaded.

What was the administrations goal for the first year enrollment?

Yep. They should expect a deluge of signups near the end of the deadline. 100k concurrent users at the same time or bust.

 

[WayneMorse]

Scott Walker, the real 2016 frontrunner: He could unite the whole GOP and unlike Chris Christie or Ted Cruz, Scott Walker can appeal to the entire party.

 

[Karakand]

I was surprised to learn that no one gave a shit that Ed Miliband is an atheist too.

His father swore an oath on the grave of Karl Marx, I guess it's nbd in comparison to that.

 

[demon]

Cute. I've long suspected you take government to be a god, and this tends to confirm it.

It's quite obvious that's not what he meant.