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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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P

pigeon

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
How is the vitter language not a direct violation of the 27th amendment?
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It is, but No Budget, No Pay was too.

Don't worry, guys. The House bill is literally the Senate bill, plus stuff Dems said they would include in the Senate bill in return for GOP concessions, plus a small pay cut for members of Congress and the Cabinet. The mini-Vitter is basically the most meaningless amendment in the world. So the argument has come down to -- Democrats want a concession in return for the essentially irrelevant fig leafs, the House wants to see if it can get away with no concession. These bills are so close together that it's almost like normal negotiation.
 
K

KingGondo

Banned
Meanwhile, in crazy state politics: Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback is upset because the Kansas Supreme Court is considering the merits of voodoo economics. The Kansas Constitution requires lawmakers to make "suitable provision" for quality education, but the state has been slashing income tax rates. Experts say there will be massive budget shortfalls in coming years.

TOPEKA — Hundreds of millions of tax dollars for public schools are at stake in a lawsuit before the Kansas Supreme Court, but so is the core of Republican Gov. Sam Brownback’s vision for the state.

JOHN MILBURN | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Brownback is banking on massive personal income tax cuts boosting the state’s economy, and his successful push for the reductions makes Kansas a lab for conservative fiscal ideas. But Brownback’s signature policy stands to unravel if aggrieved school districts and students pursuing the lawsuit succeed in forcing a dramatic increase in education spending.

The Supreme Court heard arguments from attorneys last week in the state’s appeal of a lower-court ruling that Kansas must increase its annual spending on aid to its public schools by at least $440 million. Projections from the Legislature’s research staff suggest the state can’t add so much new spending to its annual budgets with the income tax cuts in place.

“If the court orders a very large sum of money, it is very difficult to accommodate all of them,” Senate Majority Leader Terry Bruce, a Hutchinson Republican, said of the tax cuts, which he strongly favors.

Thirty students and the Wichita, Hutchinson, Dodge City and Kansas City, Kan., school districts sued the state, and their attorneys hope the Supreme Court agrees that legislators aren’t providing enough money to meet their responsibility under the Kansas Constitution to make “suitable provision” for financing schools.

The state has faced education funding lawsuits for more than 40 years, and the latest case was filed in 2010 – only 4 1/2 years after the last Kansas Supreme Court ruling on the subject. The state’s attorneys argued that the constitution gives legislators broad latitude in setting funding and lawmakers haven’t provided more money for schools because of the economic problems that arose during the Great Recession.

“This cycle of school finance litigation must end,” Brownback said in a statement last week. “It is the Legislature who has the power of the purse and they must decide how (to) solve this issue in the long run.”

But the three-judge panel that heard the lawsuit in Shawnee County District Court called the argument that legislators have done the best they could for schools “completely illogical,” given income tax reductions enacted under Brownback. Yet the tax cuts didn’t arise as an issue during the Supreme Court’s hearing until Alan Rupe, a Wichita attorney representing the students and school districts, raised it.

“I would put it in the `obvious’ category,” Rupe said afterward. “I got a sense that they’re aware of them (the tax cuts).”

The Legislature’s research staff projects that changes in the state’s tax laws will provide net reductions worth $540 million during the current fiscal year, with the annual figure exceeding $1 billion in fiscal 2018. But legislative researchers also project that the state’s cash reserves will dwindle over the next six years, so that before July 2019, the state would face a projected budget shortfall.

While the projections could allow modest increases in spending on aid to public schools and teacher pensions, increasing education funding as much as the lawsuit demands could create a projected shortfall by July 2015. Critics of the tax cuts championed by Brownback have described them as reckless.

“I think that he did everything he could to undercut us in every way possible,” said Lila Bartel, a retired English, social studies and gifted education teacher from Topeka. “Did it ever make sense to cut the income tax?”

Brownback and Republican legislators who backed the income tax cuts are confident the reductions will improve the state’s economy, create jobs and generate offsetting revenues to sustain schools. Brownback and his allies want to phase out personal income taxes to create what Brownback calls a “pro-growth” state.

The governor and his allies have repeatedly described his policies as a sharp break with the past – and Brownback has gained attention in national conservative circles for the reductions.

“The courts have the luxury of dealing with the (school funding) case in a vacuum, as if nothing else matters,” said former House Speaker Mike O'Neal, a strong backer of the tax cuts who’s now president and CEO of the powerful Kansas Chamber of Commerce. “For local schools to thrive and survive, they need a vibrant local economy.”

In past rulings, the Supreme Court has said the state constitution requires Kansas to provide each child with a suitable education. But in comments from the bench last week, several justices wondered whether they can set a clear legal standard and suggested they want to avoid perpetual litigation.

There’s also the question of how readily Brownback and the GOP-controlled Legislature would comply with a decision ordering a massive increase in spending.

Kansas Democratic Party Chairwoman Joan Wagnon, a former state revenue secretary who has strongly criticized the tax cuts, said for Brownback’s makeover of the state to remain on track, “He can’t have a piece out of his control.”

If the aggrieved students and school districts succeed in the lawsuit, she said, “They turn off the Bunsen burner under his grand experiment.”
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http://www.kansascity.com/2013/10/13/4550916/kansas-governors-legacy-clouded.html
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
pigeon said:
It is, but No Budget, No Pay was too.

Don't worry, guys. The House bill is literally the Senate bill, plus stuff Dems said they would include in the Senate bill in return for GOP concessions, plus a small pay cut for members of Congress and the Cabinet. The mini-Vitter is basically the most meaningless amendment in the world. So the argument has come down to -- Democrats want a concession in return for the essentially irrelevant fig leafs, the House wants to see if it can get away with no concession. These bills are so close together that it's almost like normal negotiation.
Click to expand...

Good point. I was genuinely shocked that they agreed to the Senate's timeline.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
RT @nielslesniewski The scheduled 11 a.m. Senate GOP meeting has been scratched. Senators will receive an update at the weekly lunch.
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Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 8m
Because the way the House GOP is running now, and given the internal politics, even THIS bill will have its challenges, let alone a Sen deal
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Oh for fuck's sake.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
Notes from HC-5... during fiscal cliff, Boehner reads Serenity Prayer. For October showdown, House sings Amazing Grace
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House theocracy confirmed?

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
RT @mkraju No McConnell speech on the floor this morning, after House GOP indicates it's asking for more
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ugh
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Diablos said:
Oh for fuck's sake.
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@robertcostanro said:
RT @DavidMDrucker: One GOP source: @SpeakerBoehner bringing new House R plan to the floor w/out a whip check.
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So in other words, if it passes, he'll run with it. If it fails, he'll pass the Senate bill.

It's worth taking a moment to realize that Boehner managed to make his caucus excited for a bill which contains no permanent changes to law and no provisions the Democrats haven't already explicitly said they'd pass (except the totally meaningless Vitter amendment). This is a big step from two weeks ago!
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
So I guess the plan should be to finish senate negotiations today, let the House to vote on this bill tonight, and for the senate to quickly vote it down and stuff its own plan tomorrow, leaving Boehner with the only option of bringing that bill to the floor or default, because there's not enough time to do another revision of their own bill.

Boehner is going to lose his job anyway if we default just from Republicans losing the house, so there isn't much reason for Boehner to play along at that point. If the house passes that bill tonight, the Senate will have the clock completely in its control at that point to make sure the house is the one getting stuffed and not the senate.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 32s
RT @russellberman After over an hour, staffers have been kicked out of the House GOP conference meeting. Time for heart-to-hearts
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Time for stop dicking around and submit to the bipartisan will of the Senate kthx
 
M

mightynine

Member
So the mini-Vitter amendment dropped the part that included their staff? That would keep one revolt they don't want from happening.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Sherman is saying this:

Jake Sherman @JakeSherman 44m
THE HOUSE BILL also turns off Treasury's extraordinary measures capability

Jake Sherman ‏@JakeSherman 53m
DETAILS FROM GOP BILL: debt ceiling till feb7, govt funding till jan 15. Medical device tax delay for 2yrs. Language canceling hc subsidies
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Total non-starter if true, but Costa hasn't mentioned any of this (the extraordinary measures part and the cancelling of subsidies - HAHA - I mean).
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Does Sherman mean no subsidies for congress or no subsidies for everyone? Given the facade of moderate stuff in the house bill, a complete elimination of subsidies doesn't fit.

Regardless I'm not sure it can pass the house. Cruz met with 20 tea party members this morning. Kevin McCarthy just so happen to see them, as if it was an episode of a TV show.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Hmm. Debt ceiling til Feb without extraordinary measures is actually a very different give from debt ceiling til Feb with measures. Remember, the last ceiling hike was til March. That's a six month gap. Can't sneak that in.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Isn't this negotiating on the DL-CR? I thought that alone was a non-starter? How are they tying things like med device tax delay to extending the DL-CR?
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
Jake Tapper explaining how the House GOP updated the Vitter language:

@jaketapper 47m
House GOP proposal: diff version of members of Congress/administration having to use Obamacare exchanges-just for primaries not for staffers
Click to expand...

@jaketapper 46m
Primaries = POTUS, VPOTUS, Cabinet official, members of Congress… Not their employees
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At least it's a LITTLE less shitty, in that they're not totally fucking over their staff.

Get them to drop the fucking device tax delay and we're there, IMO.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
Jake Tapper explaining how the House GOP updated the Vitter language:





At least it's a LITTLE less shitty, in that they're not totally fucking over their staff.

Get them to drop the fucking device tax delay and we're there, IMO.
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No. No negotiation means no negotiation, unless Obama says it I guess. We default in a couple days. There isn't time for ping long bills. The House will either pass the senate bill or we default, period. Specifically, Boehner will put the bill on the floor and it will easily pass.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixPause said:
No. No negotiation means no negotiation, unless Obama says it I guess. We default in a couple days. There isn't time for ping long bills. The House will either pass the senate bill or we default, period. Specifically, Boehner will put the bill on the floor and it will easily pass.
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What bugs me is we're entertaining other things, other than a clean CR/DC lift. At some point crap like the reinsurance tax somehow became okay, which should not have happened.
 
I

ido

Member
A guy I do jiujitsu with is probably the most consistent Obama hater on my newsfeed. I figured I would share this with you guys, as he is 100% serious(It is very scary):

4oMrk0K.png
Click to expand...

The plague? lol

I can't make this kind of stuff up.
 
I

ISOM

Member
ido said:
A guy I do jiujitsu with is probably the most consistent Obama hater on my newsfeed. I figured I would share this with you guys, as he is 100% serious(It is very scary):



The plague? lol

I can't make this kind of stuff up.
Click to expand...


Rawr, rawr fuck obama, he is worst than hitler and stalin combined!!!...btw see you at training tomorrow. This just seemed hilarious to me.
 
I

ido

Member
IGSaint said:
Rawr, rawr fuck obama, he is worst than hitler and stalin combined!!!...btw see you at training tomorrow. This just seemed hilarious to me.
Click to expand...

I had to post a picture as proof, because even I wouldn't believe a person is this willfully ignorant.
 
I

ido

Member
T

teiresias

Member
Apparently, Obama not buying it (the House bill that is):

From White House Spokeswoman Amy Brundage:

The President has said repeatedly that Members of Congress don’t get to demand ransom for fulfilling their basic responsibilities to pass a budget and pay the nation’s bills. Unfortunately, the latest proposal from House Republicans does just that in a partisan attempt to appease a small group of Tea Party Republicans who forced the government shutdown in the first place. Democrats and Republicans in the Senate have been working in a bipartisan, good-faith effort to end the manufactured crises that have already harmed American families and business owners. With only a couple days remaining until the United States exhausts its borrowing authority, it’s time for the House to do the same.
Click to expand...
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
ido said:
This is amusing.

Literally the only reason why this fight is still happening is so the GOP can figure out some kind of way to save face to the crazies in the party, right? It's only about optics right now, from what I can tell. They don't want to be perceived as having "lost" after shutting down the government and nearly defaulting.

Am I right here?
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I just keep coming back to the fact that these people (the tea party) don't look at things from a normal win/lose perspective.

Sullivan:

It seems to me that if the House GOP really does intend to destroy the American and global economy, to throw millions out of work, to make our debt problem far worse in a new depression … just to make a point about Obamacare, then at some point, Obama, like Lincoln, must preserve the republic.

But no president should ever want to take that position – because it represents the collapse of the American polity. But we are in collapse. If the House pushes the country into default this week, there is no workable American polity left. The most basic forms of collective responsibility will have been forsaken for almost pathological ideological purism and cultural revolt.
Click to expand...
 
I

ido

Member
thefro said:
it's on... Obama changed his twitter avatar.
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I saw that... and this gem:

"Michelle and I extend our best wishes for a joyous Eid al-Adha to Muslims around the world."

Obama worrying about Muslims instead of turning the government back on that he shut down.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Yeah, Boehner is leaking that the bill is going to be amended before the House votes on it.

It's a dead letter. They're going to have to pass the Senate bill.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Y2Kev said:
NYT saying house plan just collapsed?
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@robertcostanro said:
What's in the works now: adding FULL Vitter language to House plan, prob only way to get 218+
Click to expand...

I don't see this passing.

Things got a little messy, but I'm sticking with my prediction, basically. Senate bill passes today. House passes it tomorrow. Basically a clean bill.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
Woke up this morning expecting the Boehner to come to his senses and pass the Senate plan only to find out that the Boehner is still senseless.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
DOA
On the Senate floor Tuesday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) flatly rejected the House GOP's latest plan to re-open the government and increase the debt limit.

"It's a plan to advance an extreme piece of legislation, and it's nothing more than a blatant attack on bipartisanship," Reid said. "The House legislation will not pass the Senate. I am very disappointed with John Boehner, who would once again try to preserve his role at the expense of the country."

The House Republican plan seems to be in flux after failing to attract enough conservative support during the GOP conference's morning meeting.
Click to expand...
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
" I am very disappointed with John Boehner, who would once again try to preserve his role at the expense of the country."
Click to expand...
Love how Reid is openly mocking how vulnerable Boehner's Speakership is.
 
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