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[Diablos]

God dammit am I so sick and mfing tired of Phil Robertson.

And I am tired of people whining about how he got treated. I am actually of the opinion that we are at times becoming too sensitive to certain offensive things people say, but Robertson's comments were so outright stupid and inflammatory that he was practically begging for trouble.

A&E has the right to shitcan anyone on their network for any reason, just like private companies basically. But I'm much more concerned with protecting the rights of the individual in the workplace opposed to some idiot redneck duck hunter who is probably set for life financially regardless of his antics thanks to the show's success. You'd think all Americans would share that view BUT -- the outcry from the conservatives in this country over all of this is just pure lunacy, and really highlights how pathetic our society is becoming. Every time something like this happens, you can see the Sarah Palin crowd just fucking gravitate towards it, without pause, like blind sheep, and say some of the dumbest things you will ever witness in your life. Normally it wouldn't matter but there are so many of these people, ugh. And it really harms public discourse in this country, I think, thanks to these loons.

 

[Diablos]

I thought they were mine! They fit so perfectly...

I've got some cheap sweats from Ross and a 10 year old sweatshirt on. Let's talk about our premiums, baby.

 

[Oblivion]

Charles Krauthammer sez that it's "ironic" that gay people who have suffered tremendously over the years would then turn around and spread the same bigotry to god-fearin' Christians that they experienced.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Charles Krauthammer sez that it's "ironic" that gay people who have suffered tremendously over the years would then turn around and spread the same bigotry to god-fearin' Christians that they experienced.

Yeah I can't wait until Christians can't get married.

I'm even serious

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Charles Krauthammer sez that it's "ironic" that gay people who have suffered tremendously over the years would then turn around and spread the same bigotry to god-fearin' Christians that they experienced.

What bigotry is being put on Christians?

The implicit thought behind that is that their anti-gay views need to be respected and not criticized. There's a difference between Andrew Sullivan's defense of phil and that crap which might reveal their sympathies for those disgusting views (the anti-gay ones).

If people were criticizing his faith in god, then you've got a point and at that point he should be defended. Instead his using his faith to justify his dislike of gays. Conservative whites did the same thing during the civil rights movement. Is attacking their perversion of scripture belittling Christianity? I don't think Krauthammer would be so quick to defend those folks, in a few decades it will all be the same. Bigotry is bigotry.

 

[ivysaur12]

Yeah. It's absurd that all of these supposed free-market "libertarians" now want to dictate how A&E is allowed to run its business. Claiming it is a matter of "free speech" is bogus; he isn't being arrested or penalized by the government; he just no longer has a television show to espouse his views. Most of us will never have that in the first place!

I can understand that someone who shares Robertson's view would be unhappy to see him penalized--although I shudder to think what kind of person would support his pro-Jim-Crow views--but framing it in terms of free speech is ridiculous.

edit: With that said, it's discouraging to see so much of the focus on Robertson's comments about sexual morality rather than his truly egregious comments about African Americans. I think that says a lot about who really has the power in America today.

I think it speaks less about "power" and more "which minority group can we still shit on behind the guise of religious freedom?"

 

[Oblivion]

What bigotry is being put on Christians?

The bigotry of gays pointing out the bigotry of Christians, of course!


Someone posted some poll a few pages back about a majority of doctors/physicians supporting Obamacare a couple pages back, but I can't find it. Halp, pls.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Someone posted some poll a few pages back about a majority of doctors/physicians supporting Obamacare a couple pages back, but I can't find it. Halp, pls.

you mean this one?

 

[Oblivion]

you mean this one?

I knew I was blind. Danke.

 

[thepotatoman]

edit: With that said, it's discouraging to see so much of the focus on Robertson's comments about sexual morality rather than his truly egregious comments about African Americans. I think that says a lot about who really has the power in America today.

I actually didn't hear about that until you said something so I looked it up:

"I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field ... they're singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' --not a word! ... Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."

Maybe it's not getting attention because it's really hard to parse what he's even trying to say. I guess he's saying "blacks working for white farmers were happy, but now that they're all on welfare they hate white people"? Unless there's some less offensive interpretation I'm missing I really don't know how that's not getting even more attention either. Really does show how "the lazy black people are stealing your money through the government" racist stereotype is so ingrained in american culture.

Also there's the "I was once on their level working for the white farmers too, and that makes me understand them, and that makes me not racist" explanation thrown in there for good measure.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I actually didn't hear about that until you said something so I looked it up:



Maybe it's not getting attention because it's really hard to parse what he's even trying to say. I guess he's saying "blacks working for white farmers were happy, but now that they're all on welfare they hate white people"? Unless there's some less offensive interpretation I'm missing I really don't know how that's not getting even more attention either. Really does show how "the lazy black people are stealing your money through the government" racist stereotype is so ingrained in american culture.

Also there's the "I was once on their level working for the white farmers too, and that makes me understand them, and that makes me not racist" explanation thrown in there for good measure.

I think it's really easy to parse.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/phil-robertsons-america/282555/

That is because governance in Phil Robertson's Louisiana was premised on terrorism. As late as 1890, the majority of people in Louisiana were black. As late as 1902, they still lived under threat of slavery through debt peonage and the convict-lease system. Virtually all of them were pilfered of their vote and their tax dollars. Plunder and second slavery were enforced by violence, as when the besiegers of Colfax massacred 50 black freedmen with rifles and cannon and tossed their bodies into a river. Even today the Colfax Massacre is honored in Louisiana as the rightful "end of carpetbag misrule."

The black people who Phil Robertson knew were warred upon. If they valued their lives, and the lives of their families, the last thing they would have done was voiced a complaint about "white people" to a man like Robertson. Ignorance is no great sin and one can forgive the good-natured white person for not knowing how all that cannibal sausage was truly made. But having been presented with a set of facts, Robertson's response is to cite "welfare" and "entitlement" as the true culprits.

Combine with, http://www.businessinsider.com/when...son-heres-what-youre-really-defending-2013-12

As a side note, it's remarkable how often these things come as a package. Robertson's sincere doctrinal view about the sinfulness of homosexuality comes packaged with animus toward gays and retrograde views about blacks and non-Christians. It's almost as though social conservatism is primarily fueled by a desire to protect the privileges of what was once a straight, white Christian in-group, rather than by sincere religious convictions.

Phil Robertson believes, straight white Christians are better than the rest. Plain and simple.

 

[Mario]

Maybe it's not getting attention because it's really hard to parse what he's even trying to say. I guess he's saying "blacks working for white farmers were happy, but now that they're all on welfare they hate white people"? Unless there's some less offensive interpretation I'm missing I really don't know how that's not getting even more attention either.

Just yet another example of liberals responding to the conservative narrative rather than setting or redirecting the narrative themselves. Outlets like Fox News jumped on the story immediately, reporting his comments on homosexuality but completely omitting his racist comments, framing the story as an attack on religious belief. Since then, that's pretty much all the context anyone is talking about.

The ability of the conservative machine to turn an outing of a homophobic, racist bigot into a rallying cry for religious freedom is pretty amazing.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I actually didn't hear about that until you said something so I looked it up:



Maybe it's not getting attention because it's really hard to parse what he's even trying to say. I guess he's saying "blacks working for white farmers were happy, but now that they're all on welfare they hate white people"? Unless there's some less offensive interpretation I'm missing I really don't know how that's not getting even more attention either. Really does show how "the lazy black people are stealing your money through the government" racist stereotype is so ingrained in american culture.

Also there's the "I was once on their level working for the white farmers too, and that makes me understand them, and that makes me not racist" explanation thrown in there for good measure.

There is truth in the comment to a degree, but there's also blatant stereotyping going on. Drugs, drug laws, and redlining largely destroyed the nuclear black family from the late 60s to the 80s, and the aftermath continues to have huge impact on blacks today; the out of wedlock childbirth stats are just stunning. In the 40s, 50s, 60s, black families had mothers and fathers. There's no doubt the "black family" was healthier then, in many ways, despite the racism and lack of opportunities of the time. I've never heard anyone deny that. So I think Robertson is right to an extent in that sense. Once you destroy the family, there's not much left to pick up the pieces.

The problem I have with the comment is that he seems to suggest entitlements and welfare destroyed the black family, and makes it sound like blacks are the main recipient of those benefits. It's the typical "makes and takers" argument, just without a political sheen on it. In reality, "makers v takers" really means "whites v blacks/Hispanics." Am I surprised that a 70 year old white guy from Louisiana said that? Of course not.

I'm not going to call him racist, but clearly his perspective of blacks is warped in many regards.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Actually, let's be honest. The truth is, probably a lot of people upset w/ the Duck Dynasty guy about the gay comments kinda agree with him about the comments he made about black people. Not so much the Jim Crow part, but the welfare/entitlements part. Because blah blah welfare queen blah blah food stamps blah blah fraud fraud fraud!

 

[B-Dubs]

Mmm? I don't think so. These beliefs typically cluster. That is, people who believe being gay is a sin are also highly likely to believe black people are defrauding the welfare system to pay for their rap cars.

These beliefs don't occur at random!

I want to say he had a typo there because it doesn't make much sense otherwise.

 

[Link]

Actually, let's be honest. The truth is, probably a lot of people upset w/ the Duck Dynasty guy about the gay comments kinda agree with him about the comments he made about black people. Not so much the Jim Crow part, but the welfare/entitlements part. Because blah blah welfare queen blah blah food stamps blah blah fraud fraud fraud!

I'd disagree with that. The right wing media machine has made out gays to be the new boogeyman. As I mentioned earlier, it's much easier to defend homophobia than racism. You'll find a lot more people willing to openly admit to hating gay people before admitting to hating black people.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Mmm? I don't think so. These beliefs typically cluster. That is, people who believe being gay is a sin are also highly likely to believe black people are defrauding the welfare system to pay for their rap cars.

These beliefs don't occur at random!

Obviously, among an older group of people, obviously, anti-gay animus and anti-black animus is closely linked. I'm not denying that at all.

However, look at the threads on here about food stamps or other welfare programs. Then compare them to anything about gay marriage or anti-gay comments. The people willing to say everything short of something Reagan would say in a campaign stop in Philadelphia, Mississippi are a lot more open about it than the people who are willing to say anything super anti-gay on this board.

It's the libertarian section of society, where welfare programs are bad, but gay marriage is all right. Plus, then you've got suburban soccer moms, who have gay best friends, but still cross the street or hold their purse if they see a black guy with any definition coming toward them at all.

Again, yeah, people obviously go against the Jim Crow part of the statement. But, I think a disturbingly large portion of America, including some people who voted for Obama, do think it was welfare programs that ruined the black family, not the War on Some People That Do Drugs, the crack epidemic, and the death of well-paid blue collar work.

 

[B-Dubs]

Obviously, among an older group of people, obviously, anti-gay animus and anti-black animus is closely linked. I'm not denying that at all.

However, look at the threads on here about food stamps or other welfare programs. Then compare them to anything about gay marriage or anti-gay comments. The people willing to say everything short of something Reagan would say in a campaign stop in Philadelphia, Mississippi are a lot more open about it than the people who are willing to say anything super anti-gay on this board.

You can't really use this board as an example though as the moderation can be heavy handed in these situations, as it should be. There is absolutely no tolerance for racism or homophobia on this board. There is a much shorter line from being anti-gay marriage to straight up homophobia than there is being anti-welfare and racism. So naturally you won't see much anti-gay sentiment here as it's all banned almost instantly. Where as the anti-welfare stuff has slightly more leeway.

Oh. I think that's mainly because merely complaining about food stamps and welfare isn't going to get you banned, but there's not really a way to express an anti-gay stance that won't get you banned. It's sorta self-selecting.

Beat me to it.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The bigotry of gays pointing out the bigotry of Christians, of course!

Its not even that Christianity doesn't condemn gay people. Its a perversion of Christianity to justify their already held beliefs. You know how much Jesus cared about gay people? He said nothing about them.

I have nothing but respect for Christianity and Christians.

 

[zero shift]

How the GOP became the party of the "White Man's Party".

 

[Aaron Strife]

“What is the Southern Strategy? It is this. It says to the South: Let the poor stay poor, let your economy trail the nation, forget about decent homes and medical care for all your people, choose officials who will oppose every effort to benefit the many at the expense of the few—and in return, we will try to overlook the rights of the black man, appoint a few southerners to high office, and lift your spirits by attacking the ‘eastern establishment’ whose bank accounts we are filling with your labor and your industry.”

As true as ever. The Republican Party is full of short-sighted idiots who are voting against their own best interest so they can stick it to uppity liberals like Obama.

To be a Republican and make all my life decisions based on pettiness and hate.

 

[ivysaur12]

Uh.

Yes, this is real and legit.

 

[FyreWulff]

wow

much schism

such infighting

hastert schmastert

wowpac

(I really want to see the line item for the payment of that image)

 

[Mike M]

Uh.

Yes, this is real and legit.

I do not believe you.

I cannot believe you.

 

[TestOfTide]

The comic sans font is the cherry on top.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Uh.

Yes, this is real and legit.

he doesn't even understand the meme.

 

[theprodigy]

I refuse to believe that is not a photoshop

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Some dogeface it, STAT.

 

[thepotatoman]

I refuse to believe that is not a photoshop

Believe it.

Business Insider: Congress Has Finally Discovered 'Doge,' And It's Going About As Badly As You Would Expect

 

[Fox318]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt05KC3Add8
NEVER FORGET

 

[Mike M]

I refuse to believe that is not a photoshop

Yes, levitating comic sans captions are incredibly infrequent occurrences, it's practically impossible to photograph so many at once.

 

[Oblivion]

Its not even that Christianity doesn't condemn gay people. Its a perversion of Christianity to justify their already held beliefs. You know how much Jesus cared about gay people? He said nothing about them.

I have nothing but respect for Christianity and Christians.

Something something Leviticus

 

[KingK]

Obviously, among an older group of people, obviously, anti-gay animus and anti-black animus is closely linked. I'm not denying that at all.

However, look at the threads on here about food stamps or other welfare programs. Then compare them to anything about gay marriage or anti-gay comments. The people willing to say everything short of something Reagan would say in a campaign stop in Philadelphia, Mississippi are a lot more open about it than the people who are willing to say anything super anti-gay on this board.

It's the libertarian section of society, where welfare programs are bad, but gay marriage is all right. Plus, then you've got suburban soccer moms, who have gay best friends, but still cross the street or hold their purse if they see a black guy with any definition coming toward them at all.

Again, yeah, people obviously go against the Jim Crow part of the statement. But, I think a disturbingly large portion of America, including some people who voted for Obama, do think it was welfare programs that ruined the black family, not the War on Some People That Do Drugs, the crack epidemic, and the death of well-paid blue collar work.

Yeah, I definitely agree with this, based on my own anecdotal evidence. I know a lot of people (young white college students with wealthy/middle class parents) who are fully supportive of gay rights (and even one gay guy) but are also somewhat racist and would absolutely agree with the Duck Dynasty guy's statements on welfare. They aren't racist in the 1960's "let's go lynch some black people" sense, but they still feel uncomfortable around black people, hold onto the "lazy blacks" stereotype and make frequent complaints of the "welfare queens."

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Yeah, I definitely agree with this, based on my own anecdotal evidence. I know a lot of people (young white college students with wealthy/middle class parents) who are fully supportive of gay rights (and even one gay guy) but are also somewhat racist and would absolutely agree with the Duck Dynasty guy's statements on welfare. They aren't racist in the 1960's "let's go lynch some black people" sense, but they still feel uncomfortable around black people, hold onto the "lazy blacks" stereotype and make frequent complaints of the "welfare queens."

That's because society has successfully stigmatized overt racism, and is on its way for overt homophobia.

But I still see people who are supportive of gay rights talk about how gross gay people are and criticize their sometime flamboyancy, mirrors people who are supportive of civil rights who cross the street when they see a black man and talk about a welfare culture.

In the march for progress we tend to get rid of the symptoms but not always the problems and illness

 

[KingK]

That's because society has successfully stigmatized overt racism, and is on its way for overt homophobia.

But I still see people who are supportive of gay rights talk about how gross gay people are and criticize their sometime flamboyancy, mirrors people who are supportive of civil rights who cross the street when they see a black man and talk about a welfare culture.

In the march for progress we tend to get rid of the symptoms but not always the problems and illness

That's true, it's especially annoying how many people think overt racism is the only racism there is, and that the Civil Rights in the 60's "ended racism" as a societal problem.

And I should add, especially for the wealthy/middle class white college students, vehement opposition to affirmative action is a quick trigger for some subtle and not so subtle racist views to be expressed. It's really fucking annoying how many other white people will make some subtle racist jab whenever affirmative action is brought up, and just assume I either agree or don't mind because "why do you care? You're not black."

 

[Oblivion]

LOL. Obama himself waited until the last minute to sign up for Obamacare:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-signs-up-for-obamacare

#demsindisarray

 

[PhoenixDark]

Its not even that Christianity doesn't condemn gay people. Its a perversion of Christianity to justify their already held beliefs. You know how much Jesus cared about gay people? He said nothing about them.

I have nothing but respect for Christianity and Christians.

/sunday school
Without getting into a theological debate, the bible is pretty clear on homosexuality, both in the OT and Paul's NT books.

A better question to ask Evangelicals is

a) why do they pick and choose which OT laws to follow when they weren't given to Gentiles, and Jesus' death fulfilled the law.
b) why do they focus so much on Jesus (who had nothing to say to Gentiles) yet have no interest in living by his example.

/sunday school

 

[Armoured Priest]

/sunday school
Without getting into a theological debate, the bible is pretty clear on homosexuality, both in the OT and Paul's NT books.

A better question to ask Evangelicals is

a) why do they pick and choose which OT laws to follow when they weren't given to Gentiles, and Jesus' death fulfilled the law.
b) why do they focus so much on Jesus (who had nothing to say to Gentiles) yet have no interest in living by his example.

/sunday school

/Also not wanting to get into a theological debate on the internet

There is some discussion by biblical scholars that taking into consideration some of the Greek used by Paul (and the context in which it was used) there is some room for interpretation to argue whether Paul meant homosexuality, or more echoing the more general calls against fornication/adultery.

The fact that one of more popular traslations (King James) among fundamentalists is not really the most accurate translation doesn't help with this argument.

/Also not wanting to get into a theological debate on the internet

 

[bonercop]

those democratic senators trying to derail the nuclear deal with Iran are human garbage. unbelievable. of all the issues to defy the WH on, they choose the best prospects for a peaceful resolution with iran.

 

[Karakand]

Isn't Sasha a Russian name anyway?

Broadly Slavic and it was originally a diminutive.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Some light House polling from PPP. They didn't poll head-to-head matchups, but we have home-district approval ratings for several vulnerable Republican congressmen:

CA-31 Gary Miller
Approve 29
Disapprove 36

CO-06 Mike Coffman
Approve 42
Disapprove 43

IL-13 Rodney Davis
Approve 33
Disapprove 35

MI-01 Dan Benishek
Approve 41
Disapprove 45

OH-08 John Boehner
Approve 40
Disapprove 50

Of course, there's no chance in hell that Boehner would lose his seat to a Democrat, but if Democrats have any sort of advantage on election night, the other four are the lowest-hanging fruit. The broader poll is about extending unemployment benefits, and they all take a hit when polled about their lack of support, especially among independents.

 

[ivysaur12]

A federal judge in Ohio just issued a sweeping statement but narrow ruling on gay marriage in Ohio -- Ohio must recognize gay spouses on death certificates. But the funny thing was that in his very sweeping language, he also quoted Scalia's dissent in Windsor for his own opinion.

I wonder if Scalia should have thought that through a little more before he went on these hypotheticals of his. Or maybe he already has seen the other show waiting to drop and doesn't care anymore.

Do you think it suck to work at NOM? They've had no wins in... since, what, North Carolina in 2009? Just a string of losses over and over again. I just went to their blog and every page is blasting some liberal judge here, some liberal legislature there, yadda yadda. ANd then saying that wins in Washington, Maryland, Minnesota, and Maine were just low hanging fruit because those are blue states anyway. That must be so depressing.

 

[Aaron Strife]

A federal judge in Ohio just issued a sweeping statement but narrow ruling on gay marriage in Ohio -- Ohio must recognize gay spouses on death certificates. But the funny thing was that in his very sweeping language, he also quoted Scalia's dissent in Windsor for his own opinion.

I wonder if Scalia should have thought that through a little more before he went on these hypotheticals of his. Or maybe he already has seen the other show waiting to drop and doesn't care anymore.

Do you think it suck to work at NOM? They've had no wins in... since, what, North Carolina in 2009? Just a string of losses over and over again. I just went to their blog and every page is blasting some liberal judge here, some liberal legislature there, yadda yadda. ANd then saying that wins in Washington, Maryland, Minnesota, and Maine were just low hanging fruit because those are blue states anyway. That must be so depressing.

North Carolina was in 2012.

But yeah they're at a dead end, even if no more states legalized gay marriage there's not many states that haven't already banned it.

 

[ivysaur12]

North Carolina was in 2012.

But yeah they're at a dead end, even if no more states legalized gay marriage there's not many states that haven't already banned it.

Ah, my mistake.

They're going to get a loss in Indiana if it goes on the ballot plus they're going to lose in Oregon. Then Nevada and Ohio in 2016, if not sooner for Ohio.

I just don't see where they're wins are going to come from. They're not going to overturn Windsor. They're going to lose The Big Case.

Depressing for them!

 

[Oblivion]

Holy shit:

“More than 850,000 people piled on to the federal health insurance website Monday, the last day to log on and sign up for health insurance coverage that begins Jan. 1, federal officials said.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/deadline-looms-obamacare-2D11792133

Dat procrastination.

 

[ivysaur12]

Yeah but on Fox News right now they have an article about how so few state exchanges are working even if the federal website is fine. You must be wrong Oblivion.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Holy shit:



http://www.nbcnews.com/health/deadline-looms-obamacare-2D11792133

Dat procrastination.

See the example Obama set?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Holy shit:



http://www.nbcnews.com/health/deadline-looms-obamacare-2D11792133

Dat procrastination.

2014 is going to be a wonderful year.

 

[Black Mamba]

Holy shit:



http://www.nbcnews.com/health/deadline-looms-obamacare-2D11792133

Dat procrastination.

It was extended to tomorrow night, too.

 

[Aaron Strife]

There's a number cruncher on DailyKos who's kept track of how many enrollments there have been.

His latest numbers show 1.73 million private enrollments, 3.92 million in Medicaid for a total of 5.65 million

He's been pretty close to the mark before so I'll take his word. C'mon 7 mil