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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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I find the hypocrisy to be strong reading Labrador's words saying how the American public and media have been clamoring for a party to fight on behalf of the people and not WallStreet but refuse to support the Tea Party. That all they were asking for was to treat the individual as the same as the corporation and delay the individual mandate. That it isn't right for the media to blame the GOP and ignore this message that they've been pushing for.

Don't get me wrong, I see the inconsistency of delaying the employer mandate while keeping the individual mandate but what these folks seem to forget (or maybe they're just using this as another tool of destroying the law) is the employer mandate was never a cornerstone of the ACA, it was all about the individual mandate. You can delay the employer mandate for good and it won't have wider repurcussions on the ACA. Delaying the individual mandate and the law is dead.
 

Riki

Member
haha man I've had a shit eating grin on my face from the second this news started breaking. All the Republicans at my job were sure they were going to force Obama to capitulate >:)

You come at the king, you'd better be damn sure you don't miss.
 
Heritage Action, Club for Growth, and FreedomWorks are still encouraging "No" votes and saying that they will score congressmen negatively for not complying.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/15/2779001/debt-ceiling-shutdown-liveblog/

Third Conservative Organization Comes Out Against Senate BIll

Heritage Action just became the third conservative organization to urge Republicans to vote against the compromise that would reopen the government and raise the debt limit. As with the organization’s opposition to yesterday’s compromise, they say it doesn’t do enough to derail Obamacare — and that votes for or against this bill will go onto Congressmen’s legislative scorecards:
Despite some language addressing the Obama administration’s willful disregard for Obamacare’s income verification requirements, the proposed plan will do absolutely nothing to help Americans who are negatively impacted by Obamacare. Premiums will continue to skyrocket, cancellation notices will still arrive in the mail, employers will continue reducing hours and bureaucrats will continue reaching deeper and deeper into our health care decisions.​
The other conservative organizations in opposition to the bill are Freedomworks and Club for Growth.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
haha man I've had a shit eating grin on my face from the second this news started breaking. All the Republicans at my job were sure they were going to force Obama to capitulate >:)

The dark cloud of course is that they already won on spending; this whole fight was about passing the a CR at the spending level the House agreed to. Senate Dems accepted it to avoid a shutdown.

Still, losses were cut and the GOP imploded in the process, so it sure could have been worse.

Heritage Action, Club for Growth, and FreedomWorks are still encouraging "No" votes and saying that they will score congressman negatively for not complying.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/15/2779001/debt-ceiling-shutdown-liveblog/

Awesome. Especially if they follow through on the primaries.
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
The feeling of GOP split is still there, but I read that Raul Labrador is nothing but praise for Boehner despite him dicking Boehner for the past two weeks. They don't have the courage really, and Ted Cruz has failed the revolution. Rand Paul and Rubio were smart enough to stay out of it. No leader = no revolution.
 
The feeling of GOP split is still there, but I read that Raul Labrador is nothing but praise for Boehner despite him dicking Boehner for the past two weeks. They don't have the courage really, and Ted Cruz has failed the revolution. Rand Paul and Rubio were smart enough to stay out of it. No leader = no revolution.
Rubio's still voting no on the debt deal, for what that's worth.
 
Sounds like it is getting better but the article still says this

even worse


Visits to federal health-care Web site off 88%

The number of visitors to the federal government’s HealthCare.gov Web site dropped 88 percent between Oct. 1 and Oct. 13, according to a new analysis of America’s online use, while less than half of 1 percent of the site’s visitors successfully enrolled for health insurance the first week.


The new numbers on the health-care law — released by Kantar US Insights and based on an assessment conducted by the nonpartisan research firm Millward Brown Digital — provide a partial snapshot of how the federal health-care exchange has fared since it launched at the start of the month.

Of the 9.4 million unique visitors to the site during the first week, roughly a third attempted to register and 1.01 million completed registration, according to the analysis. Millward Brown Digital — which tracks the online activity of 2 million Americans, or 1 percent of all Internet users in the United States — said that roughly 36,000 Americans signed up for an insurance plan online the first week.

Obama administration officials challenged the independent assessment but did not release any specific enrollment figures.


“HealthCare.gov received 14.6 million unique visits in the first 11 days, showing the intense demand for quality, affordable health insurance,” Health and Human Services Department spokeswoman Joanne Peters said in an e-mail. “While traffic is down somewhat from its peak on day one, it remains high as Americans continue to seek to learn more about their new coverage options. We will be releasing enrollment figures on a monthly basis similar to how we release data for the [Children’s Health Insurance Program] and Medicare programs.”

An administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because enrollment figures were not yet public said the numbers in the Kantar US Insights report were “inaccurate.”


Aneesh Chopra, who served as the White House’s first chief technology officer during President Obama’s first term, said the analysis actually captured the public’s sustained interest in signing up for health insurance on the federal exchange. He said that although the total number of visitors to the site is interesting, it matters much more that 1 million Americans created an online account.

“Account creation is always the holy grail. That’s the moment that matters,” Chopra said in an interview. “In one week, a million people began a process that will result in affordable coverage. That means a lot of people are going to ultimately get the product.”

In a blog post, Millward Brown Digital Vice President Matthew Pace, who called the first week’s performance “atrocious,” said the numbers could change dramatically once the federal government improves how the Web site functions.

“The fact that millions of Americans not only visited the exchanges but also took what actions they could to register and enroll suggests that demand indeed exists for new health-care options,” Pace wrote. “As the site improves and more consumers are able to compare their coverage options, they’ll decide with their wallets how truly affordable Obamacare turns out to be.”

Pace said HHS’s visitor totals varied slightly from his firm’s because they used “different timeframes and different methodologies” but were “pretty close.”

He compared the initial number of HealthCare.gov users with the kind of traffic Target.com experiences, noting that about 0.9 percent of all online users logged onto the site during the first week. As of Oct. 13, that had fallen to 0.1 percent, he said. Last week, he estimated, the site attracted 4.1 million visitors, or less than half of what it garnered its first week.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...73f45c-35e2-11e3-be86-6aeaa439845b_story.html

I know people argue that if someone needs health insurance, they'll keep trying. But I can't think of many products that completely stumble out the gate and quickly recover in the public's eyes. It somewhat reminds me of when Vista came out and businesses were confused and cold towards it.

It's also worth noting the people who will likely try the hardest to sign up are probably older and sicker. I can't imagine many young healthy people spending much time on this; even the mobile version sucks.
 
Actual CNN footage of Harry Reid outside the Capitol just now:

tumblr_ma97psfdTS1ql2603o1_500.gif
This is the most appropriate gif I've seen since the shutdown began.
 

leroidys

Member
She showered his praises for this whole thing on MSNBC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86L50ovlXgQ#t=29

If the Tea Party hated Boehner before, they're going to really hate him now that Pelosi is on his side. You have got to wonder if Pelosi is just trying to stir up that civil war even more so.

Check out the only guy who's commented's other videos:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ctwatcher

Man Made Weather & shrooms

USA under attack! Grab your weapons now!

Support Militia!

little CHINA/RUSSIA, COLORado

sounds like a cool dude.
 

Jooney

Member
So after 16 days of shutting down the government and bringing the nation to the brink of default, the Republican Party got ... absolutely nothing. Amazing. If only I could play poker with these people.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
So after 16 days of shutting down the government and bringing the nation to the brink of default, the Republican Party got ... absolutely nothing. Amazing. If only I could play poker with these people.

They got $24 billion taken out of the US economy according to S&P.

EDIT: And a 2 year delay on the medical device tax would have saved device manufacturers $20 billion in taxes.
 
How would you all feel with changing the 30 hour requirement to 40 hour? Obviously employers would probably drop full time employees down to 34-39 hours but that would just push them into the exchanges, further separating insurance from employment which is a good thing. It'd also possible increase full time position from part time.
 

kingkitty

Member
If the Obamacare website gets stable enough within a month or two, it would kinda shit on the whole "DELAY IT A YEAR" argument.

Also The Five is pooping out the same stuff. They should have gotten a few college students to test this website out! How unbelievable that their servers would crash! It's a legitimate clusterfuck, but a lot of the arguments for a delay just reeks of ignorance towards technology.
 

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
If the Obamacare website gets stable enough within a month or two, it would kinda shit on the whole "DELAY IT A YEAR" argument.

Also The Five is pooping out the same stuff. They should have gotten a few college students to test this website out! How unbelievable that their servers would crash! It's a legitimate clusterfuck, but a lot of the arguments for a delay just reeks of ignorance towards technology.
And this shocks you?
 

Piecake

Member
How would you all feel with changing the 30 hour requirement to 40 hour? Obviously employers would probably drop full time employees down to 34-39 hours but that would just push them into the exchanges, further separating insurance from employment which is a good thing. It'd also possible increase full time position from part time.

Or we could just get rid of the employer mandate. That seems a lot simpler than what youre advocating. Companies can either give their employees a 500-1k or whatever healthcare subsidy to help cover it, raise their wage, or be dicks and eventually lose out on talented employees.
 

pigeon

Banned
Yeah, but Obamacare shouldn't have provided them with incentives for doing so.

The creators of the bill are liable for its consequences whether intended or not.

Don't put a loaded gun in someone's hands and then tell them not to fire it.

What incentives are you talking about?

As I mention in every single discussion on this topic, in a recession, the price of labor (wages) falls along the supply/demand curve because the demand drops, but in real life wages are sticky and can't easily fall. As a result, during a recession, employers cut hours, benefits, avoid cost-of-living increases, and take other sneaky approaches to cutting wages without directly reducing the advertised number. It's morally wrong inasmuch as we have a country that lets people starve and die, definitely -- but there's nothing specifically about Obamacare that causes that sin. It's just capitalism in action.
 

Jooney

Member
If the Obamacare website gets stable enough within a month or two, it would kinda shit on the whole "DELAY IT A YEAR" argument.

Also The Five is pooping out the same stuff. They should have gotten a few college students to test this website out! How unbelievable that their servers would crash! It's a legitimate clusterfuck, but a lot of the arguments for a delay just reeks of ignorance towards technology.

From what I saw, the arguments for the delay were more about keeping it aligned with the delay of the employer mandate - i.e. if employers got a delay, the american people should get one too - which is a dumb assertion and not worth the time considering.

The people who are arguing for the delay know full well that the individual mandate is the foundation of the law - pull that out and the rest collapses in on itself.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
How would you all feel with changing the 30 hour requirement to 40 hour? Obviously employers would probably drop full time employees down to 34-39 hours but that would just push them into the exchanges, further separating insurance from employment which is a good thing. It'd also possible increase full time position from part time.

I don't think it'd fix anything. Either the hour limit is dumb and we need to get rid of it, or it's fine and we can leave it where it is. If the hour limit is the problem I'd say we try to find another metric other than hours either to supplement or replace.

But I still don't like the idea of my employer getting involved in my healthcare at all. The reason we attached employment to health care in the first place is it brought down costs thanks to putting healthy people on insurance, so that it's not only the sick paying all the bills. The individual mandate + preexisting condition coverage does that without the need for employers.
 
Nix the employer mandate. Fuck, trade it with Republicans for something else.

Funnel more and more people into the exchanges, implement a public option, then go single payer.

Hell, trade the mandate for a public option! :lol
 

kingkitty

Member
From what I saw, the arguments for the delay were more about keeping it aligned with the delay of the employer mandate - i.e. if employers got a delay, the american people should get one too - which is a dumb assertion and not worth the time considering.

The people who are arguing for the delay know full well that the individual mandate is the foundation of the law - pull that out and the rest collapses in on itself.

Yeah, that's the main argument we've been hearing from the republicans. But from certain parts of the media, when it was obvious there was no way in hell Congress is going to delay any part of Obamacare, the "website don't work!" argument seems to be the next step.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I think all it says about the income verification is that the Secretary of Health and Human Services and the Inspector General must look into it and make a report to congress.
lolololol. That's nothing, and I thought that the "income verification" provision was nothing to begin with, so that must mean that this makes it actually less-than-nothing...

Edit:
Actually looking at this now, and it's reminding me how all the language like this:
The Senate Bill said:
"Strike all after the first word, and insert the following:"
could be so much more easily handled with diffs and version control like programmers do in the software world...
 

Konka

Banned
even worse



http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...73f45c-35e2-11e3-be86-6aeaa439845b_story.html

I know people argue that if someone needs health insurance, they'll keep trying. But I can't think of many products that completely stumble out the gate and quickly recover in the public's eyes. It somewhat reminds me of when Vista came out and businesses were confused and cold towards it.

It's also worth noting the people who will likely try the hardest to sign up are probably older and sicker. I can't imagine many young healthy people spending much time on this; even the mobile version sucks.

I forgot about the mandate to buy Vista.
 

pigeon

Banned
Holy shit. I think the McConnell rule might actually be in this bill.

edit: Nope. I was fooled. It just allows a McConnell vote on the single debt ceiling increase.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Saw this in the middle of all the appropriations:

SEC. 146. Notwithstanding any other provision of this joint resolution, there is appropriated for payment to Bonnie Englebardt Lautenberg, widow of Frank R. Lautenberg, late Senator from New Jersey, $174,000.
 

bonercop

Member
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 16m

There's also much talk abt how House GOP needs to rethink whole strategy for 2014. Do the standoffs continue? Or, less drama, more msg'ing?

someone called it.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
From what I saw, the arguments for the delay were more about keeping it aligned with the delay of the employer mandate - i.e. if employers got a delay, the american people should get one too - which is a dumb assertion and not worth the time considering.

The people who are arguing for the delay know full well that the individual mandate is the foundation of the law - pull that out and the rest collapses in on itself.

It really bothered me that even Jon Stewart was using that talking point. You would think he'd know better.
 
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