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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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That will just hasten the GOP's descent into irrelevancy.

That's the thing, the Tea Party just doesn't care. The GOP is as much the enemy as the democrats are. The establishment is going to be waging this internal war for a while to come, it's going to take more than this to corral the lunatic fringe.
 
You know . . . I'm happy to see Obama grow some balls. He pushed to launch missiles at Syria which resulted in getting their chemical weapons destroyed without even firing a shot and costing NOTHING. And now he stood the line on the government shutdown.

Finally . . . some spine in a Democrat. It took him a while to get it though.
 

zero_suit

Member
You know . . . I'm happy to see Obama grow some balls. He pushed to launch missiles at Syria which resulted in getting their chemical weapons destroyed without even firing a shot and costing NOTHING. And now he stood the line on the government shutdown.

Finally . . . some spine in a Democrat. It took him a while to get it though.

I'm more surprised at Harry Reid.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I'm more surprised at Harry Reid.

I gotta say, dirty Harry really doesn't deserve that reputation. He might seem quiet and meek, but he's held the line on a lot of progressive legislation. If he ever had to cave on something, it's usually cause Obama would pressure him to. He's undercut him several times in the past according to a lot of people.

As for Obama, I knew he wouldn't fuck things up this time. He's shown in the past that he'll cave on a lot of things, but HCR is the one thing he's always stayed firm on.
 

thefit

Member
You know . . . I'm happy to see Obama grow some balls. He pushed to launch missiles at Syria which resulted in getting their chemical weapons destroyed without even firing a shot and costing NOTHING. And now he stood the line on the government shutdown.

Finally . . . some spine in a Democrat. It took him a while to get it though.

I keep imagining a political cartoon with Obama sitting in the oval office the walls full of the trophy heads of everyone that dared cross him from Osama to Mitt Romney ending with a panel of the staff asking him were he wants his latest trophy, Boehners head, hung.
 
I gotta say, dirty Harry really doesn't deserve that reputation. He might seem quiet and meek, but he's held the line on a lot of progressive legislation. If he ever had to cave on something, it's usually cause Obama would pressure him to. He's undercut him several times in the past according to a lot of people.

As for Obama, I knew he wouldn't fuck things up this time. He's shown in the past that he'll cave on a lot of things, but HCR is the one thing he's always stayed firm on.

Yeah, Harry has no charisma and seems like a milque toast.

But he is the guy who played bulldog and said "Mitt Romney has not paid income taxes for years." He does push things at times. But man, he is TERRIBLE at giving speeches.
 
I gotta say, dirty Harry really doesn't deserve that reputation. He might seem quiet and meek, but he's held the line on a lot of progressive legislation. If he ever had to cave on something, it's usually cause Obama would pressure him to. He's undercut him several times in the past according to a lot of people.

As for Obama, I knew he wouldn't fuck things up this time. He's shown in the past that he'll cave on a lot of things, but HCR is the one thing he's always stayed firm on.

Reid is as powerful as the opinion of the most conservative Democrat on a specific issue. When it's something like this, Reid can be strong. When it's something like health care passage or deficit crap, Reid's going to be a little weaker.
 
I keep imagining a political cartoon with Obama sitting in the oval office the walls full of the trophy heads of everyone that dared cross him from Osama to Mitt Romney ending with a panel of the staff asking him were he wants his latest trophy, Boehners head, hung.

Look, it's all going to come out in 2018 that he and Jeri Ryan planned this from the start.
 
You know . . . I'm happy to see Obama grow some balls. He pushed to launch missiles at Syria which resulted in getting their chemical weapons destroyed without even firing a shot and costing NOTHING. And now he stood the line on the government shutdown.

Finally . . . some spine in a Democrat. It took him a while to get it though.
I think Obama can be an intimidating motherfucker when he wants to be.

Obviously he opts not to be usually, but that's because his opponents will destroy themselves if he doesn't do it for them.
 
Pay attention folks, even when every star is aligned with 'fuck the GOP" 44% of the population still votes for them....in a blue state,

Once you get outside the Philly area it's basically Alabama. It just so happens NJ is bordered by Philly and NYC so a lot of the 'blue' is dominated by those two regions who happen to vote a lot in presidential elections, so it's not like we're some bastion of progressivism, and especially not during an off off year election on a wednesday during a special election.

Plus we're the same state who in one district elected an old football 'star' for the sake of him being a 'star' over a more qualified opponent.

Edit: Color me a little surprised that Runyan voted 'yes' tonight.
 
Once you get outside the Philly area it's basically Alabama. It just so happens NJ is bordered by Philly and NYC so a lot of the 'blue' is dominated by those two regions who happen to vote a lot in presidential elections, so it's not like we're some bastion of progressivism, and especially not during an off off year election on a wednesday during a special election.

Plus we're the same state who in one district elected an old football 'star' for the sake of him being a 'star' over a more qualified opponent.

Edit: Color me a little surprised that Runyan voted 'yes' tonight.

But it says those "80% hate GOP" polls are meaningless.

When the cows come home to roost, they vote red.

Half of the NJ state senators voted to default, BTW.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Pay attention folks, even when every star is aligned with 'fuck the GOP" 44% of the population still votes for them....in a blue state,

Eh...Christie scheduled the election this way for a reason. Very low turnout which favored the GOP and Booker barely spent any money on TV ads
 

Sibylus

Banned
For the record, I think you're obviously intelligent and thoughtful, but I'm reading you as kind of the empty vessel of the NSA here. Your (not entirely unreasonable) concerns about civil liberties seem to overshadow what I consider to be much more pressing concerns about social justice and basic human rights, which probably makes me come across more aggressively than necessary. When you post about how Justin Amash "could be useful," it makes me think that you don't seem to have much time for the possibility that crazy Republicans who want to eliminate vital services that keep Americans from starving are not good candidates even if they want to reduce America's tendency to read people's email.

But in this case I was just annoyed because it really seems reductionist to suggest that all you need to do to get lower taxes is donate to Democrats, as if party platforms are utterly meaningless. Even if we suppose that politicians are always and everywhere corrupt, which I consider a little facile, surely we can agree that it's way more expensive to get a party to reverse itself on a policy position it spent a whole year running on and caters explicitly to its base! It'd probably be cheaper just to pay the taxes, which, I gather, is what most rich liberals are doing.
It's a simple relationship of getting to the articles I do when I see them. Surprise surprise, I tend to never finish reading them before the point of postage (unless I plumb sources like the CBC, and they tend to more or less just echo articles already posted to begin with), or if they happen to be something the thread isn't so quick on (such as intelligence articles). If there was as much interest in NSA stuff, I'd hands-down guarantee you I'd be beaten to anything that wasn't crumbs. That void is nine-tenths the reason I post as much NSA stuff as I do, and frankly, I don't talk very much about social justice and basic human rights because ninety-nine parts of a hundredth of every page falls within my own personal views! Rightly or wrongly, I try not to echo in places that are already well served if I can help it. I've tended toward zones of low density.

And as to Amash, that's another instance where you're reading your own conclusions into my views. Want to know why I hedged and said Amash "could be useful" and not an unequivocal "is useful"? Because I was plainly aware of the fact that so long as he was singing the mad blood feud with Obamacare and aid to the poor, it's silver lining on poison. That isn't something I feel I should need to make explicit in a footnote, in a big [THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF JUSTIN AMASH] disclaimer so as to avoid being lit up like I'm the mouthpiece to this or that social conservative outlet. I can certainly understand where all those disclaimers come from that I see on Twitter, though.

And as to the politics, I didn't suggest that that was all that was needed to get lower taxes. I listed Republicans first and added Democrats second for a reason, the second is at best also hands-directly-on the political machinery and political finance, it's a direct solution if the money or the benefits found any (unlikely) inroads, whereas the first has campaigned and will continue to campaign directly for tax cuts for the wealthy. I was simply saying that the people with money don't need to do anything other than continue to wheel and deal to politicians, a huge chunk of which being already agreeable. That isn't to say that all politicians are corrupt either, or that Democrats caving is likely, just a very general observation on the corrupting influence of funds regardless of which party platform you're associated with, and the likelihood of elected officials making a break with old policy versus a startup fifth column crippling the Democrats via apathetic voters.

My point of annoyance also lies with reductionism, in this case quite a literal reduction of my meaning when the nuance I employ is bulldozed so as to get at a tasty nugget to zing me with. Ever feel like you've been on the bad end of a hatchet job? That's the feeling I'm getting here, by you.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Chuck Todd said:
House GOPers not happy POTUS didn't wait to speak until after they voted. They consider it a "respect" issue.

Da poor babies.


Every time the GOP starts throwing a tantrum at something, Obama should say "What are you guys gonna do? Shut down the government AGAIN?!"

And he should do this every day until the midterms.
 
Speaking of Menendez....Booker got more votes tonight than he did last November. In an October special election, without Obama on the ticket. Pretty damn impressive.
 

BLACKLAC

Member
I gotta say, dirty Harry really doesn't deserve that reputation. He might seem quiet and meek, but he's held the line on a lot of progressive legislation. If he ever had to cave on something, it's usually cause Obama would pressure him to. He's undercut him several times in the past according to a lot of people.

As for Obama, I knew he wouldn't fuck things up this time. He's shown in the past that he'll cave on a lot of things, but HCR is the one thing he's always stayed firm on.

And now big balls Obama is going strait into immigration reform.

GOT DAMN!
 
Pay attention folks, even when every star is aligned with 'fuck the GOP" 44% of the population still votes for them....in a blue state,

People still don't understand what the GOP represents. The GOP represents the downtrodden white man. They are the party that is the legacy of the 1950s America. The strength in that is to the root. Its the same reason why Putin is so popular, because he represents 1960s Russia.
 
BWwHmwTCcAAc3L-.png


tumblr_l9ydfgfFvf1qzj2jlo1_500.jpg
 
Once you get outside the Philly area it's basically Alabama. It just so happens NJ is bordered by Philly and NYC so a lot of the 'blue' is dominated by those two regions who happen to vote a lot in presidential elections, so it's not like we're some bastion of progressivism, and especially not during an off off year election on a wednesday during a special election.

You can pretty much say that with any state with a huge metro area.

New Jersey is basically an oversized suburb of New York and Philadelphia.
 

Jooney

Member
Erik Erickson takes steamy dump, uploads to redstate.com

Highlights:
- If not for the valiant fight of Cruz and Lee, the GOP would have folded earlier
- Advocates supporting McConnel's primary challenger
- Calls out those who in the GOP who have folded as people who haven't "practiced what they have preached"
- Wants more people like Cruz in the senate
- and this gem:

The last time the major leaders of an American political party tried to compromise their way to power, the party broke apart giving us the Republicans. This fight too will break apart the GOP. There will not necessarily be a new party from it, but there will be a fundamentally altered party of new faces fueled by a grassroots movement now able to connect with each other and independent from Wall Street and K Street funders.

Good luck with all that.
 
Erick Erickson said:
The last time the major leaders of an American political party tried to compromise their way to power, the party broke apart giving us the Republicans.
Actually, the last time the major leaders of an American political party tried to compromise their way to power, the base accepted it and enjoyed winning the popular vote in 5 of the next 6 presidential elections which allowed them to incrementally implement liberal policies as the nation started shifting to the left.

Bill-Clinton.jpg


aww yeah
 
Erik Erickson takes steamy dump, uploads to redstate.com

Highlights:
- If not for the valiant fight of Cruz and Lee, the GOP would have folded earlier
- Advocates supporting McConnel's primary challenger
- Calls out those who in the GOP who have folded as people who haven't "practiced what they have preached"
- Wants more people like Cruz in the senate
- and this gem:



Good luck with all that.

There will not necessarily be a new party from it, but there will be a fundamentally altered party of new faces fueled by a grassroots movement now able to connect with each other and independent from Wall Street and K Street funders.
If only he were right. That would be so awesome. But sadly, that is not going to happen in the GOP. Nor will it happen in the Democratic party. :-/

But I look forward to the GOP nominating a Tea Partier for President. I want to see the GOP lose like Mondale did.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Once again Norquist cracking me up:

"These are the people who said, ‘Plan: Step One, Invade Iraq. Step Two, It turns into Kansas. Could I ask if there’s anything in between Step One and Step Two? ‘Oh ye of little faith.’

He's calling the people who supported this 'crazy' strategy to defund Obamacare the same crazies who supported going into Iraq haphazardly.

Which Norquist supported.

"'The Democrats were on the wrong side of the Civil War, the Cold War and now the Iraq War,' said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, 'Their batting average on these things is right up there with France.'"

These guys change their stance every other week, but this cracked me up for some reason.
 

Videoneon

Member
Actually, the last time the major leaders of an American political party tried to compromise their way to power, the base accepted it and enjoyed winning the popular vote in 5 of the next 6 presidential elections which allowed them to incrementally implement liberal policies as the nation started shifting to the left.

Bill-Clinton.jpg


aww yeah

Clinton? I like tax hikes for the rich, but NAFTA? Glass-Steagall repeal? 1996 Telecom Act? Bad environmental and foreign policy record? DOMA?

I don't find that exciting.
 
vote_pic.png


Says it all.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115224/government-shutdown-2013-vote-reveals-gop-divisions

edit: BTW, can a mod edit the thread title to add to the end: "; welp, we got nothing."
The best part is if teabaggers do primary the vulnerable members who voted for it (which is a pipe dream but maybe this'll be the straw that breaks their backs), that gives Democrats plenty of ripe targets. R+2 is 49% Obama.

Videoneon said:
Clinton? I like tax hikes for the rich, but NAFTA? Glass-Steagall repeal? 1996 Telecom Act? Bad environmental and foreign policy record? DOMA?

I don't find that exciting.
Erickson's point was that when the Whigs tried to compromise their way into power, that gave birth to the Republicans. But the last time a party said "Hey, maybe we've lost the middle here" it was when Clinton was nominated and it's paid off immensely.

I'm not saying Clinton was a particularly liberal president but he was a masterful politician. Sometimes you have to play the long game.

Also to be fair a lot of legislation passed under Clinton was passed with overwhelming, veto-proof majorities.
 

bananas

Banned
Clinton? I like tax hikes for the rich, but NAFTA? Glass-Steagall repeal? 1996 Telecom Act? Bad environmental and foreign policy record? DOMA?

I don't find that exciting.

Bill Clinton was the Democrat's Eisenhower.

Popular president who had to move to the right/left because the nation wasn't with his party all the way. Had to play by the other guy's rules.

Obama is the Democrat's Nixon.

Able to push more left/right agenda but still has opposition which is on the decline.

Hillary will be the Democrat's Reagan. Full shift in national ideology, able to push their party's cause forward.
 
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