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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

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pa22word

Member
where to? You are surrounded in a sea of red on every corner.

I'm in a field that gets job offers everywhere. I've turned down offers in Oregon, Ohio, Mass, Cali, Colorado (border state!), etc. just to stay close to my family. I'm getting to the point though that I have to start emphasizing nuclear family over extended, and the SO makes enough that we can move anywhere and I can work as a barista and make it work with some cutbacks.

It's a shame because I love the area where I live, but it just can't work anymore.
 
Democratic institution provides the ground game for the primaries...and the general. You can try to dampen the effect of the institutional advantage, but that's probably because the institutional advantage isn't on your side.

I'm amazed that Bernie isn't doing better, given the arguments you have about Hillary being a weak candidate, unlikable in the general public perception, and liable to crumble at the sign of any scandal. Except, you know, Bernie hasn't been able to do much of anything against Hillary, for all of his advantages and all of her supposed weakness.
Hillary is a weak candidate. The primary is too slanted in her direction for her to lose the nomination, but this year so many of her strengths become weaknesses. Her insider status, her particular brand of politics, her institutional backing - they're all weak points in the general.

Notably, the institutional advantage did not simply line up behind Hillary. She had to work on gaining their support in the preparation up to this election. If you would like to argue that Hillary didn't put in work to sew up the support of the establishment, go ahead. Hillary has certainly worked a lot harder to secure the kind of lead that she has now compared to Bernie.

I'll call out sexism when I see it. I suppose you don't have to care. Men talking down on women, what else is new.
I don't think Bernie was expecting this kind of support in the years leading up to this run. Hillary's work locking up institutional support is exactly why people don't want to vote for her.
 
Come on home bobby. You did what you could
HvXvrP6.jpg
 

Maledict

Member
Hillary is a weak candidate. The primary is too slanted in her direction for her to lose the nomination, but this year so many of her strengths become weaknesses. Her insider status, her particular brand of politics, her institutional backing - they're all weak points in the general.


I don't think Bernie was expecting this kind of support in the years leading up to this run. Hillary's work locking up institutional support is exactly why people don't want to vote for her.

Hilary's work in getting the Democratic Party to support her is exactly why people not in the Democratic Party don't support her? Well I never!
 
Hilary's work in getting the Democratic Party to support her is exactly why people not in the Democratic Party don't support her? Well I never!
What I'm saying is that it's very 'insider' in a very 'not insider' election cycle. Normally, it'd be a big plus, but in this cycle I think it's detrimental.
 
I'm not convinced this election cycle is particularly anti-insider outside the GOP.

This. While there's a somewhat similar sentiment fueling Bernie's rise, compare/contrast the "establishment" candidates on the left and the right. You could total all the establishment republicans up and they wouldn't touch Trump, let alone Hillary's (within her own party), numbers.

Being a member of the political establishment is pretty clearly not a huge liability outside of the group of people who have been indoctrinated into hating the government and all politicians, and that group is not representative of the nation as a whole.

Shockingly.
 
from @mmurraypolitics

Also: Sanders outperforms Clinton in gen-elex (RVs):
IA: HRC 48, Trump 40; Sanders 51, Trump 38
NH: HRC 45, Trump 44: Sanders 56, Trump 37

Brand-new NBC/WSJ/Marist poll of IA (LVs) for the Dem race:
Clinton 48
Sanders 45
O'Malley 5

Brand-new NBC/WSJ/Marist poll of NH (LVs):
Sanders 50
Clinton 46
O'Malley 1

Brand-new NBC/WSJ/Marist poll of NH (LVs):
Trump 30
Rubio 14
Christie 12
Cruz 10
Kasich 9
Bush 9
Paul 5
Carson 4

Brand-new NBC/WSJ/Marist poll of Iowa (LVs):
Cruz 28
Trump 24
Rubio 13
Carson 11
Paul 5
Bush 4
Christie 3
Fiorina 3
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
EDIT: Ignore, NBC commissioned different people last time, not comparable.

As for the pollster itself, NBC/WSJ has an absolutely excellent track record and were one of the top performers in '08 - 538 has them at an A- ranking indicating they were in the top 10% of pollsters by performance. Margin of error is 3.1%, methodology is random telephone sample.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Looking at that it seems to give Sanders a smaller lead in NH and Clinton a smaller lead in IA than most.

Probably sampling difference difference. If you look at NH, in the last month we've had:

FOX News Sanders +13
PPP (D) Clinton +3
ARG 12/20 Clinton +3
CBS News/YouGov Sanders +14

FOX is a mixed landline/cell sample with manual callers and YouGOV is online; PPP and ARG were both automated landline diallers, which is the same methodology that NBC uses, and lo and behold NBC gives a pretty similar picture to ARG and PPP just reflecting the movement in the race since they were conducted at the start of December. I'd put a quid or two on the next YouGOV or Fox Iowa poll to come out showing a Sanders lead.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Also, more importantly from an immediate short-turn perspective, O'Malley is guaranteed to show up in the third Democratic debate - he was in danger of slipping under the 5% rounded in at least one of national, NH, and Iowa, but his Iowa numbers are just about good enough to keep him on the stage.
 

CCS

Banned
Also, more importantly from an immediate short-turn perspective, O'Malley is guaranteed to show up in the third Democratic debate - he was in danger of slipping under the 5% rounded in at least one of national, NH, and Iowa, but his Iowa numbers are just about good enough to keep him on the stage.


Forgot about that. Imagine his numbers will only go lower once the primary season actually starts.
 
At least he's in a pretty good spot in the expectations game. Cruz has already set the expectation that he's going to win Iowa, so actually winning it isn't going to give him much of a boost. On the other hand, Rubio pulling a somewhat close third should give him a really good boost.

So at least there's that...

I don't see how a third place finish helps Rubio

He's also way behind in polling in New Hampshire South Carolina and Florida

Where do you expect Rubio to win?

The GOP base has pretty clearly rejected the establishment candidates this time around

Its down to Trump and Cruz
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Forgot about that. Imagine his numbers will only go lower once the primary season actually starts.

My guess is he pulls out after either Iowa or NH. He won't get any delegates from Iowa, which means he won't make the debate on the 11th, which means there's no point in continuing the race because for him it isn't about winning, it's about raising his profile. Given the February debate is after NH, he might stay in for kicks and hope for a miracle, but I can't see it going much further than that.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Ooh, here's the more interesting thing IMO. Clinton actually leads eligible voters in Iowa 49-43; but Marist's indicators are showing that Sanders' voters are are actually more likely to turn up than Clinton's (if only marginally); hence 48-45. That I definitely was not expecting; even I'm not that much of an optimist. This is also true in New Hampshire - Sanders has a slight turnout-advantage in both states. It looks like Clinton's not doing so well on the ground war.

EDIT: The electability questions are also interesting. NH is a home state for Sanders, so we'll ignore it, but here's the Iowa figures:

Clinton-Rubio: -5
Sanders-Rubio: +/-0
Clinton-Trump: +8
Sanders-Trump: +13
Clinton-Cruz: -4
Sanders-Cruz: +5

On average, Sanders beats Republican candidates by 6.3 points more than Clinton! Heck, Clinton's losing Iowa to Cruz by 4 points - Obama took it against Romney with more than 5!
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Yikes at those polls for Clinton. That's...not good.

Trump/Sanders, however unlikely, would probably be the most hilarious election race in history. Even the minute chance of a President Sanders working with that republican Congress...oh, the laughs.
 

Foffy

Banned
Yikes at those polls for Clinton. That's...not good.

Trump/Sanders, however unlikely, would probably be the most hilarious election race in history. Even the minute chance of a President Sanders working with that republican Congress...oh, the laughs.

I would love to see Trump/Sanders. Trump represents the worst of America in terms of regressive ideas, Sanders represents the best in terms of progressive ideas.

Neither one will get anything done.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Match ups don't matter at this point; a lot can happen 10 months from now.

Yes and no. The average term of error on polls this far out is 10.3%, but that's heavily skewed by 1964, 1980 and 1992 which all had wrongness margins of 25%+. These all stemmed from very unusual circumstances which didn't actually have anything to do with the campaigns themselves (i.e., the month after Kennedy's death, over 70% of Americans said they'd vote Democrat which obviously wasn't going to endure, Perot's surprise entrance in 1992 as a viable third-party totally changed the terms of the race, and Carter had the Iran hostage crisis). If you exclude those 3, then the average term of error on polls this far out is 6.3% (and the margin of error almost always flows *away* from the incumbent party, there are almost never surprises *in favour* of incumbent parties). In other words, while we can't put an exact figure on it, we can say that if this election's polling conforms to prior election's polling, and there are no external upsets that stem from outside the campaigns themselves, it is more likely than not Clinton would lose Iowa to Rubio.

That's bad.

Like, this is not me being smug or anything. This is me now becoming genuinely worried. I didn't think Clinton could actually lose, so having a bit of jokes about Clinton/Sanders stuff is ultimately okay because they're both better than Republicans. However, these figures are really bad; it is genuinely becoming possible Clinton actually could lose the Presidency.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
I would love to see Trump/Sanders. Trump represents the worst of America in terms of regressive ideas, Sanders represents the best in terms of progressive ideas.

Neither one will get anything done.
Not if Republicans hold the House and Senate; House looks like a shoe in. Of course filibusters will remain but Obama and the Democrats showed you can get around that problem.
Yes and no. The average term of error on polls this far out is 10.3%, but that's heavily skewed by 1964, 1980 and 1992 which all had wrongness margins of 25%+. These all stemmed from very unusual circumstances which didn't actually have anything to do with the campaigns themselves (i.e., the month after Kennedy's death, over 70% of Americans said they'd vote Democrat which obviously wasn't going to endure, Perot's surprise entrance in 1992 as a viable third-party totally changed the terms of the race, and Carter had the Iran hostage crisis). If you exclude those 3, then the average term of error on polls this far out is 6.3% (and the margin of error almost always flows *away* from the incumbent party, there are almost never surprises *in favour* of incumbent parties). In other words, while we can't put an exact figure on it, we can say that if this election's polling conforms to prior election's polling, and there are no external upsets that stem from outside the campaigns themselves, it is more likely than not Clinton would lose Iowa to Rubio.

That's bad.

Like, this is not me being smug or anything. This is me now becoming genuinely worried. I didn't think Clinton could actually lose, so having a bit of jokes about Clinton/Sanders stuff is ultimately okay because they're both better than Republicans. However, these figures are really bad; it is genuinely becoming possible Clinton actually could lose the Presidency.
I'll keep in mind those unusual circumstances. I still say it's far to early to take these match ups too seriously. Clinton should be a sure deal beating any of the Republican nominees and why she isn't I can only gather deals with many small factors.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Dude, those general election match up are worthless until the nominees are actually picked. Everyone on the GOP side is polling as generic R. Just look at the same sort of numbers from last cycle if you don't believe us.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Dude, those general election match up are worthless until the nominees are actually picked. Everyone on the GOP side is polling as generic R. Just look at the same sort of numbers from last cycle if you don't believe us.

No. Go check. Here's Obama vs. Romney in the latter half of January 2012.

USA Today/Gallup 1/27 - 1/28 907 RV 4.0 48 48 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 1/22 - 1/24 RV -- 49 43 Obama +6
Rasmussen Reports 1/19 - 1/21 1500 LV 3.0 46 43 Obama +3
PPP (D) 1/13 - 1/16 700 RV 3.7 49 44 Obama +5
CBS News/NY Times 1/12 - 1/16 1021 RV 3.0 45 45 Tie
Pew Research 1/11 - 1/16 1207 RV 3.5 50 45 Obama +5

That's not actually that bad - average is a 3.3 margin for Obama. He went on to win by 3.9.

I'm not claiming that polls this far out have 100% predictive margin. They obviously don't. However, they have *some* predictive value, and that predictive value suggests that it is more likely than not Clinton would lose Iowa. Not guaranteed; but probable. To be fair to you, last cycle's actually a really bad one for you to pick because it was more or less spot on, which is *very rare*, but even picking worse examples, Clinton's odds are less than good.
 
Those Iowa numbers, OH MY GOD.

Sanders being a left populist that appeals to millennials is probably under represented in polls (going by international trends). These coming days are going to be ruthless.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
On a different note, Obama's chief of staff confirmed neither he nor Biden would endorse anyone. Not a surprise, but confirmation at least.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
No. Go check. Here's Obama vs. Romney in the latter half of January 2012.

USA Today/Gallup 1/27 - 1/28 907 RV 4.0 48 48 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 1/22 - 1/24 RV -- 49 43 Obama +6
Rasmussen Reports 1/19 - 1/21 1500 LV 3.0 46 43 Obama +3
PPP (D) 1/13 - 1/16 700 RV 3.7 49 44 Obama +5
CBS News/NY Times 1/12 - 1/16 1021 RV 3.0 45 45 Tie
Pew Research 1/11 - 1/16 1207 RV 3.5 50 45 Obama +5

That's not actually that bad - average is a 3.3 margin for Obama. He went on to win by 3.9.

I'm not claiming that polls this far out have 100% predictive margin. They obviously don't. However, they have *some* predictive value, and that predictive value suggests that it is more likely than not Clinton would lose Iowa. Not guaranteed; but probable. Last cycle's actually a really bad one for you to pick because it was more or less spot on, which is *very rare*, but even picking worse examples, Clinton's odds are less than good.

You also need to keep in mind that she's ceded every news cycle so far to the GOP, which is going to drag that number down further. This is an important factor to consider.

Also, all of those are from further in the month so they're going to be more predictive than what we're getting right now.
 

Foffy

Banned
Not if Republicans hold the House and Senate; House looks like a shoe in. Of course filibusters will remain but Obama and the Democrats showed you can get around that problem.

I'll keep in mind those unusual circumstances. I still say it's far to early to take these match ups too seriously. Clinton should be a sure deal beating any of the Republican nominees and why she isn't I can only gather deals with many small factors.

I think there are big paradigms that need to be changed, and I don't think executive orders will accomplish it. And that's why I said nothing will be done: nothing of note will be done by anybody who becomes president. Our problems will stay as problems, as we merely kick the can of patchwork further down the road as the whole whole house of cards rumbles.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Also, all of those are from further in the month so they're going to be more predictive than what we're getting right now.

We're only 2 weeks off, but fine, if Clinton is still doing this badly in head to heads in 2 weeks, will you start worrying? Because if not, frankly I think you're just displaying the backfire effect pretty hard. Her metrics in the general are getting worse and worse; what does it take before you start thinking "Houston, we have a problem?".
 
Those Iowa numbers, OH MY GOD.

Sanders being a left populist that appeals to millennials is probably under represented in polls (going by international trends). These coming days are going to be ruthless.

The Democratic primary is going to be interesting, that's for sure. What's the turnout like for most states that have primaries? How's the youth turnout usually? If Sanders can get his base to go out and vote in droves, then I think he has a possible chance.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
We're only 2 weeks off, but fine, if Clinton is still doing this badly in head to heads in 2 weeks, will you start worrying? Because if not, frankly I think you're just displaying the backfire effect pretty hard. Her metrics in the general are getting worse and worse; what does it take before you start thinking "Houston, we have a problem?".

I like how you chopped off the top half of my post and ignored it as something that doesn't matter when it does. She had a bounce when she went to the Benghazi hearings and was able to go on the attack. You need to remember that she's been practically invisible in news coverage, Trump has dominated every single news cycle since that hearing. That affects the numbers, you should know that.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I like how you chopped off the top half of my post and ignored it as something that doesn't matter when it does. She had a bounce when she went to the Benghazi hearings and was able to go on the attack. You need to remember that she's been practically invisible in news coverage, Trump has dominated every single news cycle since that hearing. That affects the numbers, you should know that.

Her "bounce" from Benghazi took her from "very unfavorable" to "moderately unfavorable"; the effect took just a month before it was gone. Meanwhile, you're ignoring the fact that she dropped 30 approval points in a year - picking out one point when she managed to briefly disrupt this trend does not help you when it remains one point. She'd need 4 Benghazi's worth of good stuff to be pulling equal with Rubio. And no, I don't think lows news cycle necessarily badly effects your ratings - it should just leave them stagnant, not see them drop. Heck, Sanders has had about a fifth of Clinton's coverage and his favorability ratings only go up!
 
Media outlets have been covering Killary with bad press since the 1990s, no one in the media is writing stories about how Cruz wants a 19% VAT or how Rubio and Cruz want to annul all gay marriages and stop rape victims from getting abortions. Those guys will go in massive negatives once Hillary starts advertising against them. Sanders' will be massively negative once the RNC started advertising against him. All the GOP would have to do for attack ads is quote Bernie saying "I am a Socialist. I don't mind a 90% top marginal tax rate" and he would drown.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Her "bounce" from Benghazi took her from "very unfavorable" to "moderately unfavorable"; the effect took a month before it was gone. She'd need 4 Benghazi's worth of good stuff to be pulling equal with Rubio. And no, I don't think lows news cycle necessarily badly effects your ratings - it should just leave them stagnant, not see them drop. Heck, Sanders has had about a fifth of Clinton's coverage and his favorability ratings only go up!

She's ceded every news cycle to people who have been attacking her almost non-stop without even trying to defend herself. What did you think was going to happen to those numbers? That bounce occurred because she was in the news defending herself and it stopped as soon as she went away again. Once she starts actually campaigning those numbers will change rapidly.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
She's ceded every news cycle to people who have been attacking her almost non-stop without even trying to defend herself. What did you think was going to happen to those numbers? That bounce occurred because she was in the news defending herself and it stopped as soon as she went away again. Once she starts actually campaigning those numbers will change rapidly.

yes, because she's proven so effective at fending off advancing challengers in all her elections so far. This is ostrich-head-in-sand stuff. You'll be telling me in 2018 that Clinton is just about to take back the narrative against President Cruz; the fact she didn't win the election doesn't mean anything.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
yes, because she's proven so effective at fending off advancing challengers in all her elections so far. This is ostrich-head-in-sand stuff. You'll be telling me in 2018 that Clinton is just about to take back the narrative against President Cruz; the fact she didn't win the election doesn't mean anything.

Her entire strategy has been to keep her head down so far, of course she hasn't been effective at hitting back. She's had no reason to so far, let the GOP self-destruct on their own. Also, she doesn't exactly need to fend off Bernie because as of right now he's still like 20 points back. Unless he starts chipping away at her african-american support there's no danger he overtakes her.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Her entire strategy has been to keep her head down so far, of course she hasn't been effective at hitting back. She's had no reason to so far, let the GOP self-destruct on their own. Also, she doesn't exactly need to fend off Bernie because as of right now he's still like 20 points back. Unless he starts chipping away at her african-american support there's no danger he overtakes her.

But they're not self-destructing. Rubio's margins over her are getting bigger. So are Cruz's. Trump is progressively doing less badly against her. Her favorability continues to go down. Her enthusiasm continues to fall - Sanders' voters are now considered more likely to turn out than Clinton voters, that's fucked up given the demographics. 30% of likely Democratic voters in Iowa would be dissatisfied with her as a candidate.

The only person Clinton's "rhubarb, rhubarb" strategy is hurting is her.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
What are the factors that hurt a Clinton presidency? I don't see her being labeled a socialist, but with conservatives who knows. She certainly not a centrist. Bill is still reasonably popular. Do people really hold his sex scandal against her? I think being a woman would help her more than hurt her since so many women vote. Do most people, regardless of ideology, care about Benghazi? What about the private emails? Do enough people just not like her?
 
No. Go check. Here's Obama vs. Romney in the latter half of January 2012.

USA Today/Gallup 1/27 - 1/28 907 RV 4.0 48 48 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 1/22 - 1/24 RV -- 49 43 Obama +6
Rasmussen Reports 1/19 - 1/21 1500 LV 3.0 46 43 Obama +3
PPP (D) 1/13 - 1/16 700 RV 3.7 49 44 Obama +5
CBS News/NY Times 1/12 - 1/16 1021 RV 3.0 45 45 Tie
Pew Research 1/11 - 1/16 1207 RV 3.5 50 45 Obama +5

That's not actually that bad - average is a 3.3 margin for Obama. He went on to win by 3.9.

I'm not claiming that polls this far out have 100% predictive margin. They obviously don't. However, they have *some* predictive value, and that predictive value suggests that it is more likely than not Clinton would lose Iowa. Not guaranteed; but probable. To be fair to you, last cycle's actually a really bad one for you to pick because it was more or less spot on, which is *very rare*, but even picking worse examples, Clinton's odds are less than good.
Obama was already a president for 4 years in 2012 election. R-money was having trouble maintaining lead from insurgents like Newt and Santorum. Hillary comes pre-loaded with 30 years of political baggage, good and bad and her opponents like Trump, Rubio, Cruz and even Carson do not. The polls will definitely be playing to people's preconceived notions about candidates and the typical general election voter at this time still thinks of the Republican candidates as generic R. They do not know Rubio's appalling views on rape and abortion, or his total lack of authenticity (every word is scripted). They don't quite know about Cruz' comments about spanking Hillary or Carson and his granaries. At this point, only voters who are paying attention to the election are the ones really understand all the candidates, their views, and their GE electability. Around this time in 2008 for example (couldn't find overall head-to-heads):
McCain - Obama
wVUfD9f.png


McCain - Clinton
aUjyDoQ.png
This is still not a 1-to-1 comparison with 2016. In 2008, McCain's favorability was through the roof.
McCain's favorables
39IjFf3.png
Any politician right now would die for such an insane favorables. He deserved it too since he was actually a really good senator until he shook hands with the devil few months later. I always admired him and still do today. He was the best choice for 2008 all things considered. Of course Obama and Hill struggled against his image. Hillary however as we all know has ton of scandals and controversies in the past and her image is tainted, unfortunately.

So today we are stuck with Hillary whose unfavorables are not really stellar and she brings in a ton of political baggage. People will automatically have a reaction to her, positive or negative. I'm not particularly enthusiastic about her as I was with Obama in 2008. That's probably why she's struggling against GE matchups. I think once the primary window closes and we are left with the party nominees, people will start paying more attention. And right around then, Bernie (if he becomes the nominee) will start getting trounced by GOP with socialist tag and fearmongering about ISIS. Who knows what those fuckers will bring in the October surprise.
 
Some of the more interesting stats to me, from the Iowa Dem primary poll, is when you look at the breakdowns.

Hillary's supporters are more likely to say they "Strongly Support" her than Bernie 55/42. Hillary's supporters are more likely to have caucused before 51/41. Although, Hillary still runs 2 points better among those who haven't caucused 47/45. (this is probably just noise, but it shows us that a huge influx of new voters doesn't automatically benefit Bernie.)But the one that gets me the most is when you look at the "Matches voter registration list" stat. Hillary is at a 53% match. Bernie is only at 38%. It illustrates what I've been saying all along.

Also, this reinforces how much of an outlier that Fox News NH poll was. This poll is actually an improvement for Hillary.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Also, this reinforces how much of an outlier that Fox News NH poll was. This poll is actually an improvement for Hillary.

Fox and this use different sampling. Wait for a YouGOV before declaring the Fox News poll an outlier.
 
Fox and this use different sampling. Wait for a YouGOV before declaring the Fox News poll an outlier.

The Fox News polls have been swingy as all hell. I have no idea what they're doing with their sample. It's gone from Trump +5, to Hillary +11, to Trump +3. That's not realistic.

Also, why in the hell would YouGov, which is an Internet based sample, be even remotely comparable to the Fox News sample? The NBC News/WSJ/Marist poll uses a split landline/cell sample just like Fox News.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
The Fox News polls have been swingy as all hell. I have no idea what they're doing with their sample. It's gone from Trump +5, to Hillary +11, to Trump +3. That's not realistic.

Also, why in the hell would YouGov, which is an Internet based sample, be even remotely comparable to the Fox News sample? The NBC News/WSJ/Marist poll uses a split landline/cell sample just like Fox News.

NBC/WSJ is landline only unless they changed it since the last one; Fox is landline/cell which typically produces results closer to internet - internet and cell both catch younger people.
 

pigeon

Banned
But they're not self-destructing. Rubio's margins over her are getting bigger. So are Cruz's. Trump is progressively doing less badly against her. Her favorability continues to go down. Her enthusiasm continues to fall - Sanders' voters are now considered more likely to turn out than Clinton voters, that's fucked up given the demographics. 30% of likely Democratic voters in Iowa would be dissatisfied with her as a candidate.

The only person Clinton's "rhubarb, rhubarb" strategy is hurting is her.

I think it might be worthwhile to look at how favorability moves after a nominee is selected, because I think that's really the relevant question. Romney exhibited similar patterns of being generally unfavorable until after he was chosen and then popping back up into favorability pretty rapidly. The reality is that it's easy as a Democratic voter now to say you'd prefer somebody other than Hillary, but when she's actually picked she's still going to better than all the alternatives.
 
NBC/WSJ is landline only unless they changed it since the last one; Fox is landline/cell which typically produces results closer to internet - internet and cell both catch younger people.

Nope. The NBC/Marist polls used cells and landline.

This survey of 3,033 adults was conducted January 2nd through January 7th, 2016 by The Marist Poll sponsored and funded in partnership with NBC News and The Wall Street Journal. Adults 18 years of age and older residing in the state of Iowa were interviewed in English by telephone using live interviewers. Landline telephone numbers were randomly selected based upon a list of telephone exchanges from throughout the state of Iowa from ASDE Survey Sampler, Inc. The exchanges were selected to ensure that each region was represented in proportion to its population. Respondents in the
household were randomly selected by first asking for the youngest male. To increase coverage, this landline sample was supplemented by respondents reached through random dialing of cell phone numbers from Survey Sampling International. Both samples were matched by telephone number to a voter registration list for the state.

The poll even breaks down responses on issues by landline vs cell phone.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Nope. The NBC/Marist polls used cells and landline. The poll even breaks down responses on issues by landline vs cell phone.

Gosh, they did change it then - that looks expensive, too. You might be right on Fox, then.
 
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