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[Sianos]

Not to derail the thread, but in regards to discrimination:

Once again, the motte and bailey fallacy is being employed. A very wide and esoteric definition of "discrimination" as opposed to the common, intended vernacular is being used to catch some non-central examples of "discrimination" under the umbrella, and then somehow working backwards from there you try to justify the example of the vernacular racial/religious prejudice discrimination, banning all Muslims (or effectively brown people in general) until further notice, as acceptable because those very, very non-central cases of "discrimination" are acceptable, ignoring the fact that the non-central cases do not possess the characteristics that make banning all Muslims (effectively all brown people) unacceptable.

Ironically, now you are also trying to say it is "dishonest" to accuse Trump of "racial discrimination" against Muslims (effectively all brown people) - yet I thought that

"Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing is perceived to belong to rather than on individual merit."

was merely the extent of what that word means and of course the extent of any connotations attached, riiiiiight...?

Hm, seems as though you are cognizant of the prototypic image of what "discrimination" is, know how that the concept embodied by the prototypic image of "discrimination" is unacceptable, and are intentionally jumping back and forth between the definitions to obfuscate matters.

 

[noshten]

DEBBIE NO

A Powerful endorsement for Cruz, the most beloved democrat among Republicans - they must secretly see something of their own ilk in her.

Democrats should stand behind this powerful, successful, attractive woman. Don't bail now, give her until the next election is over.

I like Debbie because I know exactly what to expect from Debbie. It's a never ending wave of STUPID!

DWS should stay put, she is the conservatives best friend.

we like the democrats incompetence through and through.

in that sense, she's a great poster child.

Please keep her

God no, keep her she is our ace in the hole!

Republicans would like the Dems to keep this M O R O N.

No please leave her in place . She has done more for conservatives by opening her piehole than anybody could dream of.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/01/11/why-democrats-should-dump-debbie-wasserman-schultz

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

So you guys want birtherism to be validated by the head of the DNC? Why not take Obama to court while we're at it.

"Both sides really are the same." -PhoenixDark

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

So you guys want birtherism to be validated by the head of the DNC? Why not take Obama to court while we're at it.

"Both sides really are the same." -PhoenixDark

I have argued that Cruz birthers should get dysentery.

 

[Wilsongt]

Ted Cruz birthism is just as bad as Obama's birthism. I find it funny that the GOP is the only one really running with it, though, and that the Democrats aren't mentioning anything.

They are probably hiding something about Obama.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Ted Cruz birthism is just as bad as Obama's birthism.

I don't think that's true and I believe Cruz is eligible. Trump and others questioned if Obama was born in America; it's known Cruz was born in Canada. The former is a conspiracy theory while the latter is a legal question untested in court.

 

[benjipwns]

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-clinton-is-not-1341320448106550.html

Sen. Bernie Sanders accused Hillary Clinton of taking an increasingly aggressive stance against him because she’s nervous that he is beating her in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

“It could be that the inevitable candidate for the Democratic nomination may not be so inevitable today,” Sanders said at the Iowa Brown & Black Forum in Des Moines Monday night.

...

The Vermont senator added that Clinton may have noticed that his supporters have more “enthusiasm” than hers.

There's still time for her to drop out and salvage her image.

 

[Holmes]

So the guy who's been on her ass and aggressive towards her for months now, and even stole her campaign data, is calling her out for being the aggressive one? Lol ok gramps, back to the home you go.

 

[benjipwns]

I don't think that's true and I believe Cruz is eligible. Trump and others questioned if Obama was born in America; it's known Cruz was born in Canada. The former is a conspiracy theory while the latter is a legal question untested in court.

Obama and Cruz both have American-born parents. That renders the question moot even though both were born in foreign countries (Hawai'i and Canada respectively).

Plus, Chester A. Arthur was born in Canada.

The funniest Orly (and team) complaints were against Jindal and Rubio for despite having been born in the U.S. not having American-born parents.

 

[noshten]

So the guy who's been on her ass and aggressive towards her for months now, and even stole her campaign data, is calling her out for being the aggressive one? Lol ok gramps, back to the home you go.

Maybe if she had something stolen she can report it to the FBI - I believe she has their contacts.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Obama and Cruz both have American-born parents. That renders the question moot even though both were born in foreign countries (Hawai'i and Canada respectively).

Plus, Chester A. Arthur was born in Canada.

Our 21st president was born in Vermont.

 

[User 463088]

Of course Cruz is eligible. I just find the entire thing incredibly ironic and hilarious, especially when McTurtle won't even let the Senate vote on a pointless bill like they did for McCain. Hell, anything Trump does that helps him and hurts any other nominee, I'm fine with.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Maybe if she had something stolen she can report it to the FBI - I believe she has their contacts.

Of course she has contacts in the FBI. She was Secretary of State and First Lady and a Senator from NY.

Or is this some breitbart e-mail conspiracy theory you're frothing up about.

 

[benjipwns]

Our 21st president was born in Vermont.

Proof or ban. Where's the birth certificate?

Arthur lied about his year of birth too.

Politicians used to be lying scumbags out for personal gain. Not like these days.

 

[noshten]

Of course she has contacts in the FBI. She was Secretary of State and First Lady and a Senator from NY.

Lighten up Bam, I know your anxious but that southern belt should hold the levee. After all Sanders likely won't top that 40% ceiling or whatever imaginary line you keep moving in your mind.

Or is this some breitbart e-mail conspiracy theory you're frothing up about.

I like how you choose to say I'm frothing - rather than the person implying Sanders is up Hilton's ***

 

[User 463088]

Trayvon Martin's mother endorsed Hillary today

Here's the op-ed

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Lighten up Bam, I know your anxious but that southern belt should hold the levee. After all Sanders likely won't top that 40% ceiling or whatever imaginary line you keep moving in your mind.

I don't think you're using that gif correctly. I was just making fun of your crappy attempt at a joke.

I didn't now you were a mind reader now.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Our 21st president was born in Vermont.

Few people remember when Reagan annexed Vermont from Canada in 1983.

 

[noshten]

I don't think you're using that gif correctly. I was just making fun of your crappy attempt at a joke.

I didn't now you were a mind reader now.

Your attempts at making fun required an edit, the edit you made was simply to insult me while you chose to ignore people baiting reactions such as mine. I'm simply here to provide a counter point to HillGAF's hivemind, if you don't like my posts you could simply ignore them like you ignored the poster I quoted.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump getting close to passing Rubio in the betting markets:

http://predictwise.com/

Nate Silver getting close to drowning in his sweat.

Bettors seem pretty scared of the Cruz birther stuff, not sure it's going to stick though.

 

[adamsappel]

See, I think everyone within reason should own a gun (a la Kennesaw, Georgia), but those need to be purchased and registered at least with the state.

Are you suggesting it be a law that people have to purchase a personal gun? Will that be subsidized for the poor? Guns are expensive.

 

[benjipwns]

I see nobody made a thread for Gary Johnson's presidential announcement...I guess if you want things done poorly...

EDIT: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1169412

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I see nobody made a thread for Gary Johnson's presidential announcement...I guess if you want things done poorly...

Pretty sure no one cares about a "libertarian" that believes Sharia Law is just around the corner.

 

[benjipwns]

Pretty sure no one cares about a "libertarian" that believes Sharia Law is just around the corner.

LIAR

I CARE

YOU WILL BE MADE TO CARE

1.01% HERE WE COME

 

[East Lake]

Could you be libertarian under sharia law?

 

[watershed]

Obama and Cruz both have American-born parents. That renders the question moot even though both were born in foreign countries (Hawai'i and Canada respectively).

Plus, Chester A. Arthur was born in Canada.

The funniest Orly (and team) complaints were against Jindal and Rubio for despite having been born in the U.S. not having American-born parents.

Hawaii was a foreign country at the time of Obama's birth?

 

[Holmes]

Could you be libertarian under sharia law?

Actually being libertarian is illegal under American law. Why do you think Paul decided to skip the debate and go into hiding? He doesn't want to be cellmates with Killary.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I can't tell if Johnson's immediate 180 shows good qualities or not:

In a Wednesday interview with Reason, the former governor of New Mexico said that sharia law is one of his greatest concerns, and that he would ban the Muslim head garb.

“Under sharia law, women are not afforded the same rights as men,” Johnson argued, adding that a burka hides whether a woman has been beaten. “Honor killings are allowed for under sharia law and so is deceiving non-Muslims,” he added.

On Thursday afternoon, Johnson recanted.

Admitting that his decidedly un-libertarian proposal rankled the feathers of many libertarians (and non-libertarians), Johnson told The Daily Beast: “I would not sign that legislation because I think that it would end up being government intrusion on you or I.”

The original statement is horrible in every regard obviously.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ohnson-actually-i-wouldn-t-ban-the-burqa.html

 

[lenovox1]

Hawaii was a foreign country at the time of Obama's birth?

No, President Obama was born on 1961. Hawaii had been a US territory since 1898, and a state since 1959.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

No, President Obama was born on 1961.

A likely story.

 

[sangreal]

Hawaii was a foreign country at the time of Obama's birth?

No and Chester A Arthur wasn't born in Canada

...unless you believe the people that started that claim to challenge his eligibility in which case it's a bizarre example to raise

 

[benjipwns]

Hawaii was a foreign country at the time of Obama's birth?

I don't recognize the illegal coup and annexation of the independent Kingdom of Hawai'i.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't recognize the illegal coup and annexation of the independent Kingdom of Hawai'i.

You could apply that same standard to most of the continental US. No one is eligible to run for President!

 

[benjipwns]

You could apply that same standard to most of the continental US. No one is eligible to run for President!

Go on...

 

[pigeon]

Go on...

youveactivatedmyanarchycard.jpg

 

[benjipwns]

youveactivatedmyanarchycard.jpg

Where did France or Spain get the title to sell or transfer ownership of the Louisiana Territory? Or Jefferson the authority to purchase it?

The Mexican cession was gained through a war sold on lies!

Where did Russia get authority to sell Alaska to the U.S.?

Come see the violence inherent in the state!

 

[Black Mamba]

Even the pollsters are concerned that the media is using their polls incorrectly. Polls are at best an estimation, and include a standard of error that the media and the RNC are ignoring. A poll number of five is no different than a poll number of 8 if the standard of error is +/- 3. To exclude candidates on faulty analysis is to disenfranchise the voter.

Rand Still doesn't understand math. No surprise here.


And no one here is trying to argue Cruz isn't eligible. We're just fucking jumping with joy if the thing that actually sinks Cruz is this. It's funny because Cruz is an asshole that lies time and again about Democrats. It's funny because he thinks he's the smartest person on Earth and he will eternally think he would be President if not for that meddling Trump pointing out that he's Canadian. It's hilarious because no one wants to come to his defense because he's an asshole to everyone. It's even more hilarious because he's a Constitutional Lawyer.

Cruz is a disgusting and vile piece of garbage. Like I said earlier, I don't know what scenario is better. Him losing badly to Hillary but forever knowing he was rejected by America or him losing because he's not "American" but thinking he'd have won otherwise. Which is better, guys!? I just don't know!!!

 

[User1608]

.

For real, I'd love to hear what Cruz's thoughts are in either scenario. We all know sociopaths hate to lose (control) after all. No sympathy for this fool.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

A poll number of five is no different than a poll number of 8 if the standard of error is +/- 3.

That's not true at all. That would mean that a 0 isn't different from a 3 which isn't different from a 6 which isn't different from a 9... etc until 0 isn't any different from 120%. A poll number of 5 +/- 3 and a poll number of 8 +/- 3 are quite different, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the first number is smaller than the second number. 5 +/- 3 could, in reality, be 7 and 8 +/- 3 could be 5.

 

[benjipwns]

In this case the actual poll numbers didn't really matter as much as the rankings in them since that's how the candidates for each were chosen. Accepting the premise, you'd have to give everyone the same benefit of the doubt on the MoE's and that'd still give you the same rankings.

 

[Black Mamba]

Right. I just wanted to point out that Rand and his team doesn't understand statistics.

But we can thank the media for falsely reporting any two numbers that are within each other due to the MoE as a "statistical tie." It's really annoying.

If you're up 3 points but the MoE is 3, that doesn't mean you're tied. In fact, in a 1 on 1 matchup, you're likely ahead almost 85% of the time.

 

[Maledict]

I have to ask, why do people think that Cruz is secretly in the running for the Supreme Court rather than political office?

Not only did he have an opportunity to be a federal judge and turn it down already, but getting onto the Supreme Court is one of the few jobs where it's even harder than being President if your party hates you. To get onto the court he would need a friendly Republican president, and then a senate that would confirm him - neither of which is happening in a million years unless Trump gets elected and Mike Lee stages an actual, real life physical coup in the senate. Cruz has absolutely no hope, at any point, of ever being nominated for the Supreme Court.

In an era where Supreme Court judges have to be the most neutral Tabula Rasa ever to get confirmed, do we really think the most extreme right wing nutbag in the senate, whose entire campaign is based on lieing about Democrats and his own party, is somehow going to clear that hurdle?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Did the mods come down on poll threads? Feels nice not seeing five threads on the first page about the latest poll. It was ridiculous.

 

[Black Mamba]

I have to ask, why do people think that Cruz is secretly in the running for the Supreme Court rather than political office?

Not only did he have an opportunity to be a federal judge and turn it down already, but getting onto the Supreme Court is one of the few jobs where it's even harder than being President if your party hates you. To get onto the court he would need a friendly Republican president, and then a senate that would confirm him - neither of which is happening in a million years unless Trump gets elected and Mike Lee stages an actual, real life physical coup in the senate. Cruz has absolutely no hope, at any point, of ever being nominated for the Supreme Court.

In an era where Supreme Court judges have to be the most neutral Tabula Rasa ever to get confirmed, do we really think the most extreme right wing nutbag in the senate, whose entire campaign is based on lieing about Democrats and his own party, is somehow going to clear that hurdle?

I don't know anyone who thinks Cruz isn't running to be President. No fucking way that man doesn't want to be President. He wants to be an emperor.

I've believed that his fellow Republicans would like to nominate him to the SCOTUS to get him out of their hair because they hate him, a thorn in their side, and he's reliably conservative and a constitutional lawyer. It might be difficult but why wouldn't you get rid of him if you can?

I don't know if there's a single person that likes Ted Cruz. I'm including his immediate family, here.


Now, would he take it? I don't know. My inclination is if it was guaranteed, he would.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I made this post on PoliReddit but I haven't garnered a single response. Thought you guys might be able to give me insight. I'll copy paste the whole thing.


ELI5: The difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy.

I have been rummaging around on the internet on this lazy Sunday and was reading a few articles on the democratic candidates when I became the victim of the Wikipedia rabbit hole.

I read good portions of the entries on democratic socialism and social democracy. I read the 'compare and contrast' sections and thought I had maybe a tenuous grasp on the real differences presented. I then read a section on the democratic socialism entry that described Bernie Sanders as a democratic socialist AND a social democrat by his own admission. After reading the entries and believing I understood, Bernie Sanders confused the issue for me by claim both ideologies when the Wikipedia articles took pains to separate the two.

So, Reddit, what is the difference between democratic socialism and being a social democrat?

Socialism is the belief that the means of production should be under the control of labour, which is a fairly technical economic concept that translates to something like 'companies are run by their workers', sometimes with the government as an intermediary. A democratic socialist is one who thinks these conditions can be reached via engaging in the democratic process, and contrasted with the revolutionary socialists who believed in an uprising.

Social democracy is more a strand of liberalism than anything else and is very poorly named, largely because most historically democratic socialist parties stopped being democratic socialists and started being liberals. Social democrats essentially maintain private ownership of capital, and just attempt to ameliorate the results with e.g. state-run education and health care systems.

Sanders over the course of his life started socialist and then has drifted towards social democracy. I think he just keeps the socialist label because it has personal meaning to him.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

In this case the actual poll numbers didn't really matter as much as the rankings in them since that's how the candidates for each were chosen. Accepting the premise, you'd have to give everyone the same benefit of the doubt on the MoE's and that'd still give you the same rankings.

Right. I just wanted to point out that Rand and his team doesn't understand statistics.

But we can thank the media for falsely reporting any two numbers that are within each other due to the MoE as a "statistical tie." It's really annoying.

If you're up 3 points but the MoE is 3, that doesn't mean you're tied. In fact, in a 1 on 1 matchup, you're likely ahead almost 85% of the time.

Guess I'm too tired. I saw the quote without realizing the context. Whoops. Yeah I agree.

 

[disastermouse]

Shit as long as Bubba is of the faculties to own responsibly, why not? Aren't most people just for not letting people who can't pass background checks or who are mentally unstable own guns?

It sounds like the whole thing is slippery slope argument, a logical fallacy. Speaking of, I've never understood why logical fallacies are wrong.

I understand they're wrong, but I don't get the why they are wrong.

Apologies for sounding like a novice, everyone.

Each one has different reasons. Are you unsure about all of them?

 

[disastermouse]

I'm trying to understand what makes them faulty really. If anything, I'm probably just overthinking them (I'm damn good at recognizing them)

Even if faulty reasoning comes to the correct factual conclusion, that effect is random and not directly related to the reasoning.

The point of logic is to find accurate and repeatable ways of arriving at correct conclusions. At least in the realm where certain a priori assumptions are agreed upon (like the excluded middle).

 

[disastermouse]

Socialism is the belief that the means of production should be under the control of labour, which is a fairly technical economic concept that translates to something like 'companies are run by their workers', sometimes with the government as an intermediary. A democratic socialist is one who thinks these conditions can be reached via engaging in the democratic process, and contrasted with the revolutionary socialists who believed in an uprising.

Social democracy is more a strand of liberalism than anything else and is very poorly named, largely because most historically democratic socialist parties stopped being democratic socialists and started being liberals. Social democrats essentially maintain private ownership of capital, and just attempt to ameliorate the results with e.g. state-run education and health care systems.

Sanders over the course of his life started socialist and then has drifted towards social democracy. I think he just keeps the socialist label because it has personal meaning to him.

This is an amazingly concise and accurate explanation! Kudos! Often socialists become social democrats or democratic socialists because they see that simply waiting for violent revolution is a politically difficult position to take and they want to take part in shaping the system as it currently exists. In the process, they typically rationalize that reforming capitalism is something that can be more than temporarily successful. In doing so, I think that they disregard the fact that the laws of capitalism require the rollback of reforms at the earliest opportunity in the service of capital, regardless of the fact that it imperils the entire system. It's one of the many contradictions of capitalism.

 

[Retromelon]

If cruz is the republican's nominee i will vote for whoever the other choice is. Even her

Not that itll mean anything since my state is bluer than meta when scalia retires