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[RustyNails]

Did you forget about the part where he talked about IranPresident Barack Obama: Well Steve, I got to tell you, if you think that running your economy into the ground and having to send troops in in order to prop up your only ally is leadership, then we've got a different definition of leadership. My definition of leadership would be leading on climate change, an international accord that potentially we'll get in Paris. My definition of leadership is mobilizing the entire world community to make sure that Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon. And with respect to the Middle East, we've got a 60-country coalition that isn't suddenly lining up around Russia's strategy. To the contrary, they are arguing that, in fact, that strategy will not work.

The coalition strategy is a failure. We are spending billions just to target low level ISIS cannon fodder noobs. How is that effective? Just today Saudi Arabia announced it will be cooperating with Russia, so Obama is wrong that Gulf countries are not cozying up with Russia. Gulf countries already had reservations about Obama's stupid as fuck "training" program. Now they see their fears manifest, and Russia making gains in Syria. Both Russia and Gulf countries have an immediate enemy: ISIS. They can live with Bashar for another 30-40 years, but they cant live with ISIS. The fact that Obama can't see that is disappointing.

 

[benjipwns]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/12/politics/syria-rebel-groups-ammunition-50-tons/index.html



ugh

fucking stop it

This seems dangerous for people on the ground.

 

[BertramCooper]

I think you might be underestimating the possibility of an unprecedented landslide, in Bernie's favor, when more and more people discover that Bernie Sanders is a very rare bird, a politician who is not part of the "political class" and who would actually fight for politicies that are in the best interests of everyday Americans, not Corporations and the super rich, that would make America a great nation again, for current and future generations.

This is not how politics works.

 

[B-Dubs]

Just want to call dibs on the debate thread real fast. I'm working on a little something that's coming together pretty fast. I still wish Biden was in so I could take it to the next level, but this should still be amazing.

 

[Tarkus]

Democratic Presidential Debate 1 |OT| Who needs Ambien when you have these guys?

Or

|OT| Shots are not fired

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Democratic Presidential Debate 1 |OT| Who needs Ambien when you have these guys?

Boo

Democratic Presidential Debate 1 |OT| We love Social Security so much, we make sure our candidates qualify too. (via @LOLGOP)

 

[User1608]

Just want to call dibs on the debate thread real fast. I'm working on a little something that's coming together pretty fast. I still wish Biden was in so I could take it to the next level, but this should still be amazing.

It will be lol.

Looking forward to boring, thoughtful, mature policy discussion and arguments. Seriously though, it should be good!

 

[Tarkus]

Democratic Presidential Debate 1 |OT| Cloudy, but no chance of ether

 

[Makai]

Ted Cruz is the closest thing to an establishment candidate they're going to get. "Outsider" support is so strong and I don't see how Trump or Carson lose their support to Jeb or Rubio. Here's the latest averages from HuffPo:

Undecided 7.6%

VICTORY - 46.1%
Donald Trump 29.3%
Ben Carson 16.8%

ALMOST OUTSIDERS - 9%
Ted Cruz 4.4%
Mike Huckabee 4.2%
Rick Santorum 0.4%

WE TRIED - 34.2%
Jeb Bush 10.4%
Marco Rubio 8.1%
Carly Fiorina 6.2%
Rand Paul 3.5%
Chris Christie 3.2%
John Kasich 1.7%
Lindsey Graham 0.4%
George Pataki 0.4%
Bobby Jindal 0.3%
Jim Gilmore 0.0%

Team Victory has this on fucking lock. I even grouped people into the establishment category that really shouldn't be there to be nice. They lose if one of them refuses to concede to the other while the establishment vote solidifies.

 

[Cheebo]

I think you might be underestimating the possibility of an unprecedented landslide, in Bernie's favor, when more and more people discover that Bernie Sanders is a very rare bird, a politician who is not part of the "political class" and who would actually fight for politicies that are in the best interests of everyday Americans, not Corporations and the super rich, that would make America a great nation again, for current and future generations.

You are assuming, and quite incorrectly, that the general public cares even the slightest about this liberal utopia you are imagining.

 

[Daniel B·]

This is not how politics works.

And yet, his progressive policies were well received in Burlington, Vermont's most populus city, where he served four terms as Mayor, initially booting out the six-term Democratic incumbent Gordon Paquette.

 

[pigeon]

And yet, his progressive policies were well received in Burlington, Vermont's most populus city, where he served four terms as Major, initially booting out the six-term Democratic incumbent Gordon Paquette.

Well, sure. No surprise there -- cities are more progressive than the surrounding rural area, Vermont is a progressive state, people tend to cluster together by political affiliation, and Bernie is from Vermont. You've basically described the one place in America most likely to support Bernie Sanders's policies, and noted that it does so.

But I don't think you can really use that as evidence to suggest that the entire rest of America is going to do the same thing. America is becoming more progressive, but it's still a deeply divided country. Wishing for the progressive silent majority is a lot like the religious reactionaries who wish for the silent Christian majority they think is lurking out there. Just because everybody you know agrees with you doesn't make you representative.

 

[User 406]

What if the sheeple actually do wake up? D:

 

[Cheebo]

And yet, his progressive policies were well received in Burlington, Vermont's most populus city, where he served four terms as Mayor, initially booting out the six-term Democratic incumbent Gordon Paquette.

Vermont is not at all like the nation at large.

It'd be like trying to equate local hardcore conservative politics in a town in a extremely red southern state.


This is not a extremely liberal socialist accepting country, not in the slightest.

We live in a nation that the majority of congressmen, senators, and governors are Republican. Do not overlook this fact.

 

[BertramCooper]

And yet, his progressive policies were well received in Burlington, Vermont's most populus city, where he served four terms as Mayor, initially booting out the six-term Democratic incumbent Gordon Paquette.

Burlington, Vermont - truly a bellwether for the entire nation.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

This is only slightly related to the discussion at hand, but it's funny to me how Salt Lake City, the capital of the most deep red state in the nation arguably, is having an election where the two candidates are as left as you can sometimes get in American politics.

 

[HylianTom]

How Could Hillary Lose?

“If a candidate has ever been inevitable—for the nomination—it is Mrs. Clinton today,” the New York Times’ Nate Cohn declared early this year. “Hillary is probable, but no longer inevitable,” the Los Angeles Times’ David Horsey inferred months later. Polling guru Nate Silver nodded along with that assessment, giving Clinton an 85 percent chance of winning the Democratic nomination. “The general election is a whole different story,” he cautioned.

PredictWise, which synthesizes data from pollsters and various betting markets, currently gives Clinton a 69 percent chance of winning the Democratic nomination and a 42 percent chance of becoming president. She has a better chance of being sworn in on Jan. 20, 2017 than anyone else in the race (Joe Biden and Jeb Bush are tied for second at 12 percent each). There’s no denying that Clinton has a good shot at becoming America’s 45th president. But her high probability of winning the White House begs the question: How could Clinton blow it?

As the Democrats prepare to debate in Las Vegas—the first real test of the candidates’ mettle—Politico Magazine put that question to the experts. With Vice President Biden playing footsie with a run and Bernie Sanders nipping at Hillary’s heels in the early states, we asked the sharpest political minds around to consider what it would take to derail Clinton’s campaign—both for the nomination and the general election. The threats they foresee for the “inevitable” nominee are collected below.

The various commenters touch-upon stuff we discuss all the time. Greenfield's stress over margins (!!!) should ring a few bells. And I'm pretty entertained by the VA Democratic Party's former chairman claiming that the entire race could come down to Virginia. There's even a mention of a Rubio+Kasich combo being needed to beat her, lol..

 

[Tarkus]

This is only slightly related to the discussion at hand, but it's funny to me how Salt Lake City, the capital of the most deep red state in the nation arguably, is having an election where the two candidates are as left as you can sometimes get in American politics.

Less than 50% of its residents are LDS if that's what you're getting at. Many libs live there. Ski bros, gastropub hipsters etc.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm not getting at anything other than my state (Utah), having its Governor, and all of its congress people as R (and most of them extreme, batshit R), but the mayor of its most important city is going to be pretty left wing.

Anyway, the far right continues to carry water for Ben Carson. The Federalist released a "Ben Carson is right about the Holocaust" take and I'm sure the WSJ take is coming soon.

 

[Makai]

I didn't know that the Kochs founded the Cato Institute. Koch saying he's fighting against special interests makes a lot of sense from a libertarian perspective.

 

[And_Gignac]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/12/politics/poll-south-carolina-nevada-hillary-clinton/index.html

Nevada

Hillary 51
Sanders 34
Biden 12

Clinton 58
Sanders 36

Poll: Clinton trounces her rivals in Nevada, South Carolina
It's going to be a fight for Hillary Clinton against her Democratic primary opponents in Iowa and New Hampshire. But in Nevada and South Carolina, she's trouncing her rivals.

Sanders just 16 points behind Clinton in Nevada ahead of first debate

Bernie Sanders is within striking distance of Hillary Clinton in the key early voting state of Nevada just days before the first Dem debate is set to take place in Las Vegas.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

16 point leads are pretty nice honestly.

 

[B-Dubs]

A 16 point lead is huge, dude. Especially considering it's a two man contest as of right now.

Saying it's just 16 points seems a little like trying to set a narrative.

 

[And_Gignac]

D.N.C. Vice-Officer Says She Was Disinvited From Debate After Calling for More of Them

Representative Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, a vice chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee, said she was disinvited from the first Democratic presidential primary debate in Nevada after she appeared on television and called for more face-offs.

Ms. Gabbard confirmed on Sunday that her chief of staff received a message last Tuesday from the chief of staff to Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the chairwoman of the national committee, about her attendance at the debate. A day earlier, Ms. Gabbard had appeared on MSNBC and said there should be an increase beyond the current six sanctioned debates.

A person close to the committee who asked for anonymity to discuss internal discussions insisted, however, that Ms. Gabbard had not been disinvited. Instead, the person said, an aide to Ms. Wasserman Schultz expressed a desire to keep the focus on the candidates as the debate approached, rather than on a “distraction” that could divide the party, and suggested that if Ms. Gabbard could not do that, she should reconsider going.

Ms. Gabbard insisted otherwise.

“When I first came to Washington, one of the things that I was disappointed about was there’s a lot of immaturity and petty gamesmanship that goes on, and it kind of reminds me of how high school teenagers act,” Ms. Gabbard said in a telephone interview on Sunday night. She said she would watch the debate in her district in Hawaii, which elected her to her second term last year.

“It’s very dangerous when we have people in positions of leadership who use their power to try to quiet those who disagree with them,” she added. “When I signed up to be vice chair of the D.N.C., no one told me I would be relinquishing my freedom of speech and checking it at the door.”

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...d-from-debate-after-calling-for-more-of-them/

I dont understand why the DNC is not willing to have more debates. It benefits them in every way possible. Meanwhille. the GOP is getting all the attention

A 16 point lead is huge, dude. Especially considering it's a two man contest as of right now.

Saying it's just 16 points seems a little like trying to set a narrative.

I know it is. I just find it funny how both Politico and The Hill exposed their particular biases with the headlines (well, maybe Politico a little less since their headline is more accurate).

 

[Teggy]

If this was a general election poll, there is no way anyone would call 16 points "striking distance". It's quite laughable, really.

 

[Zona]

Vermont is not at all like the nation at large.

It'd be like trying to equate local hardcore conservative politics in a town in a extremely red southern state.


This is not a extremely liberal socialist accepting country, not in the slightest.

We live in a nation that the majority of congressmen, senators, and governors are Republican. Do not overlook this fact.

Hell, I'm a twentysomething that lives in New York (Long Island) and the majority of my friends and peers are some flavor of republican. I dearly wish there was a vast silent liberal majority out there but having to constantly argue with people who are dead against any form of socialized medicine regardless of what information I provide to them, or think regulations on guns are already too strict, or are pro shooting brown people(generally not the word they use) in this country or outside it, is a constant reminder to me that were not there yet.

The best you can say is that the country is trending leftward with time but the right in this country is still a force to be reckoned with. Even if you buy into the narrative that the rights dying, it's death throws can still set back the cause of liberalism by decades.

 

[User 406]

But once everyone knows who Bernie Sanders is and hears him say that he really truly for real pinky swear wants to make the country better with completely new ideas that nobody has ever even thought of ever, they'll all vote for him! And then he'll tell everyone to vote for all the House and Senate members he needs to get the job done, and everyone will do that thing he told them to because it's a really good idea and nobody's thought of it before!

It'll be like a revolution or something!


I am so ready for the end of this primary. =_=

 

[B-Dubs]

But once everyone knows who Bernie Sanders is and hears him say that he really truly for real pinky swear wants to make the country better with completely new ideas that nobody has ever even thought of ever, they'll all vote for him! And then he'll tell everyone to vote for all the House and Senate members he needs to get the job done, and everyone will do that thing he told them to because it's a really good idea and nobody's thought of it before!

It'll be like a revolution or something!


I am so ready for the end of this primary. =_=

Gotta get through the debate first.

 

[NeoXChaos]

But once everyone knows who Bernie Sanders is and hears him say that he really truly for real pinky swear wants to make the country better with completely new ideas that nobody has ever even thought of ever, they'll all vote for him! And then he'll tell everyone to vote for all the House and Senate members he needs to get the job done, and everyone will do that thing he told them to because it's a really good idea and nobody's thought of it before!

It'll be like a revolution or something!


I am so ready for the end of this primary. =_=

Lets just get everybody together. Lets get unified. The sky will open. The light will come down. Celestial choirs will be singing and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I dont understand why the DNC is not willing to have more debates. It benefits them in every way possible. Meanwhille. the GOP is getting all the attention

Joke post?

The GOP is taking a serious beating in public opinion and the debates are not helping a bit.

 

[Indicate]

Just want to call dibs on the debate thread real fast. I'm working on a little something that's coming together pretty fast. I still wish Biden was in so I could take it to the next level, but this should still be amazing.

nice cant wait.

 

[Cheebo]

It is pretty simple. If there was this silent majority of hardcore far lett leaning liberals out there waiting for a candidate like Bernie...he would be you know, actually leading the Democratic polls.

How can there be this silent majority in the country if there isn't even such a silent majority among democratic primary voters which is a far more liberal subset than the nation at large?

 

[And_Gignac]

Joke post?

The GOP is taking a serious beating in public opinion and the debates are not helping a bit.

Maybe in Salon and DailyKos, but in media at large GOP nominees are getting exposure and awareness. Dems are yet to get that level of exposure and fewer debates wont certainly help.

And yes, what DNC is doing is shady as fuck.

 

[User 406]

It is pretty simple. If there was this silent majority of hardcore far lett leaning liberals out there waiting for a candidate like Bernie...he would be you know, actually leading the Democratic polls.

How can there be this silent majority in the country if there isn't even such a silent majority among democratic primary voters which is a far more liberal subset than the nation at large?

They just don't knooooooooow Bernie-sempai like we do yet! *^o-*


I need to get off the fucking internet. Time for a Dark Souls bows-only deathless run.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Maybe in Salon and DailyKos, but in media at large GOP nominees are getting exposure and awareness. Dems are yet to get that level of exposure and fewer debates wont certainly help.

And yes, what DNC is doing is shady as fuck.

I don't think anyone is getting a more positive opinion of Trump, Carson, or Jeb from these debates.

 

[Cheebo]

Maybe in Salon and DailyKos, but in media at large GOP nominees are getting exposure and awareness. Dems are yet to get that level of exposure and fewer debates wont certainly help.

And yes, what DNC is doing is shady as fuck.

The debates will have terrible ratings, so not like it matters much. No one but hardcore types such as us care about primary debates in non-competitive primaries.

 

[thepotatoman]

Sounds like Paul Ryan isn't planning on making a decision on becoming Speaker for another week. He's clearly super reluctant but the pressure on him to do it is huge.

I still think he's going to do it.

 

[benjipwns]

I'm not getting at anything other than my state (Utah), having its Governor, and all of its congress people as R (and most of them extreme, batshit R), but the mayor of its most important city is going to be pretty left wing.

Utah had a Democratic Representative for the prior 14 years until Mia Love took his seat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Matheson

SLC has had a Democratic Mayor since 1976.

And the previous Mayor founded this, which will replace the Democratic Party after Hillary's prison sentence and Sanders' Zionist racist gun fetish tears the party apart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Party_(United_States)

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Sounds like Paul Ryan isn't planning on making a decision on becoming Speaker for another week. He's clearly super reluctant but the pressure on him to do it is huge.

I still think he's going to do it.

Maybe he will announce that he is also resigning from Congress

 

[Iolo]

Sounds like Paul Ryan isn't planning on making a decision on becoming Speaker for another week. He's clearly super reluctant but the pressure on him to do it is huge.

I still think he's going to do it.

Just biden his time.

 

[RustyNails]

Anyone hear about the 14-point manifesto being passed around by Freedom caucus? Supposedly they decided that any potential speaker should sign this document if he wants their support. It has all the good things you expect like defund obamacare, planned parenthood and refuse to raise debt ceiling, etc.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Sounds like Paul Ryan isn't planning on making a decision on becoming Speaker for another week. He's clearly super reluctant but the pressure on him to do it is huge.

I still think he's going to do it.

If he does it, he's going to get a blood oath from the FC that they don't give him even a whiff of a problem for the remainder of the election year.

 

[FyreWulff]

Anyone hear about the 14-point manifesto being passed around by Freedom caucus? Supposedly they decided that any potential speaker should sign this document if he wants their support. It has all the good things you expect like defund obamacare, planned parenthood and refuse to raise debt ceiling, etc.

planks within planks

 

[B-Dubs]

Anyone hear about the 14-point manifesto being passed around by Freedom caucus? Supposedly they decided that any potential speaker should sign this document if he wants their support. It has all the good things you expect like defund obamacare, planned parenthood and refuse to raise debt ceiling, etc.

I saw something from Webster about widgets, but nothing along those lines yet. Where did you hear this?

 

[ivysaur12]

Unless they literally carve up SLC, it's going to be pretty hard to not have a swing-esque seat in Utah in 2020 if they get another seat.

 

[RustyNails]

I saw something from Webster about widgets, but nothing along those lines yet. Where did you hear this?

Radio...apparently they have the manifesto for a while, and Politco reported on it in July this year. Makes sense they would try to bend any speaker to their will with it.

 

[B-Dubs]

Radio...apparently they have the manifesto for a while, and Politco reported on it in July this year. Makes sense they would try to bend any speaker to their will with it.

I can find the Politico reporting on it, but it looks like no one has been able to get their hands on a copy as no one has published it yet. Even conservative outlets don't seem to have it.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Sounds like Paul Ryan isn't planning on making a decision on becoming Speaker for another week. He's clearly super reluctant but the pressure on him to do it is huge.

Ryan's clearly trying to push out a decision in the hopes that someone else emerges as a viable candidate. There just isn't anyone else. Poor guy...

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ryan is getting savaged in right wing media over his immigration and justice reform views. Wow, they're really whipping up a frenzy to torpedo this.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Maybe in Salon and DailyKos, but in media at large GOP nominees are getting exposure and awareness. Dems are yet to get that level of exposure and fewer debates wont certainly help.

And yes, what DNC is doing is shady as fuck.

I don't read sites like DailyKos and Salon-- the general media has been beating up the candidates. Have you seen the unfavorables? None of these guys will be electable unless the Dems similarly smear each other for a prolonged period of time.