Support NeoGAF

[Coriolanus]

Ah yeah, i see your point now adam. That's general ignorance about how government works. Yeah, that's mad saddening, especially since it feeds so many other kinds of ignorance, including the political aspect.
--
good night, sweet crab and cruztan. If yours were the same as mine, we'll see you in two weeks.

 

[kingkitty]

That Democratic debate OP is straight up garbage.

rude

 

[Snake]

impeach kingkitty imo

 

[Makai]

Crab is the organizer for the Mafia games and he keeps getting banned when stuff is supposed to start.

 

[kingkitty]

if i'm getting impeached, i'm taking you all down with me

 

[SL128]

The People are demanding Star Wars.

Spoiler

So of course I'm thinking about Star Trek. I'm gonna try to resist my troll urge

Whichever way you go, Ben Carson needs to be Spock. The way he mind-melded with that bear and uses impeccable logic necessitates it.

 

[Makai]

Whichever way you go, Ben Carson needs to be Spock. The way he mind-melded with that bear and uses impeccable logic necessitates it.

Yep. He also seems to have misplaced his brain.

 

[Makai]

I'm either doing Star Wars original trilogy, Star Trek the original series,

Spoiler

or Spaceballs

 

[User 463088]

I'm either doing Star Wars original trilogy, Star Trek the original series,

Spoiler

or Spaceballs

Piss everyone off and do the Star Wars Prequels.

Everyone's JarJar.

 

[Makai]

Piss everyone off and do the Star Wars Prequels.

Everyone's JarJar.

Star Trek would rustle more jimmies. I also haven't seen Star Wars since I was a kid.

Then again, I managed with the Batman wiki.

 

[SL128]

If you do tier 1 establishment (Bush, Rubio, Kasich, etc.), tier 2 establishment (Cruz, Rand, Santorum etc.) and non-establishment, all three themes are possible.

 

[Makai]

If you do tier 1 establishment(Bush, Rubio, Kasich, etc.), tier 2 establishment (Cruz, Rand, etc.) and non-establishment, all three themes are possible.

If I do Star Wars, it's The Establishment Strikes Back with Darth Jeb and Senator Palatable

 

[User 463088]

Star Trek would rustle more jimmies. I also haven't seen Star Wars since I was a kid.

Then again, I managed with the Batman wiki.

That's a shame, because Star Trek is better than Star Wars in nearly every single way.

Trekkie for life!

 

[kingkitty]

make the theme k-on

 

[User 406]

And that's understandable, but even then, it gets messy very quickly. For example, what would be a realistic approach to securing more dem victories in local elections and midterms?

Mandatory voting would fix the turnout problem, as would elimination of midterm elections, but you asked for realistic solutions.

An extensive and well funded angry leftist version of the right wing talk radio/cable "news" sphere that would keep the Democratic base pissed off and thinking about politics and elections 24/7 all year round could do it. Whether that is actually a good thing for the mental health of our citizens is another matter.

The fact is, there really is no good solution, because so much of the Democratic base is young people who are disengaged and inexperienced, and poor people and minorities who are too subsumed in the soul draining exercise of getting by in America to have the time or the energy to devote to political awareness or action.

I'm afraid that making the most of our victories in presidential election years, stacking the judiciary, waiting for the eventual judicial overturning of the abusive horseshit our meth labs of democracy cook up, letting the slow trickle of demographics wear through the bedrock of good ol' American bigotry, and praying we get lucky in census year elections so the congressional maps for the next midterm end up in our favor are our most realistic options at this point.

But as a wise man once said, "Anyone who says they do is a liar. Ain't an exact science for a reason." I hope I'm completely missing something that will suddenly pop up and change the game.

Spoiler

It's not going to be Bernie, geez, give it a rest.

***

Oh, and you fuckken nerds and your compulsive fetishism for pop-culture tchotchkes. It's a debate thread, not a clickdebate thread. I think O'Malley makes one fine looking ham sandwich.

Fuck it, do a political-themed political debate thread. I wanna see some Calhoun, Wallace, and Jackson parallels. Make everyone but benji snore.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Cruz being clownish as usual. Thumping his chest about how he would be so tough but says no ground troops or anything just that he would drop more bombs on a daily basis than Obama.

Way to really stick your neck out.

 

[User 463088]

Mandatory voting would fix the turnout problem, as would elimination of midterm elections, but you asked for realistic solutions.

An extensive and well funded angry leftist version of the right wing talk radio/cable "news" sphere that would keep the Democratic base pissed off and thinking about politics and elections 24/7 all year round could do it. Whether that is actually a good thing for the mental health of our citizens is another matter.

The fact is, there really is no good solution, because so much of the Democratic base is young people who are disengaged and inexperienced, and poor people and minorities who are too subsumed in the soul draining exercise of getting by in America to have the time or the energy to devote to political awareness or action.

I'm afraid that making the most of our victories in presidential election years, stacking the judiciary, waiting for the eventual judicial overturning of the abusive horseshit our meth labs of democracy cook up, letting the slow trickle of demographics wear through the bedrock of good ol' American bigotry, and praying we get lucky in census year elections so the congressional maps for the next midterm end up in our favor are our most realistic options at this point.

But as a wise man once said, "Anyone who says they do is a liar. Ain't an exact science for a reason." I hope I'm completely missing something that will suddenly pop up and change the game.

Spoiler

It's not going to be Bernie, geez, give it a rest.

***

Oh, and you fuckken nerds and your compulsive fetishism for pop-culture tchotchkes. It's a debate thread, not a clickdebate thread. I think O'Malley makes one fine looking ham sandwich.

Fuck it, do a political-themed political debate thread. I wanna see some Calhoun, Wallace, and Jackson parallels. Make everyone but benji snore.

See, I don't believe in mandatory voting. I think that we do have the freedom to not vote should we not wish to. I'm all for automatic registration and automatic absentee ballots/vote by mail. Just because you're registered for something doesn't mean that you're being forced to do it. I think that would help turnout greatly. Of course, we know the GOp will do everything in their power to stop it fro happening.

 

[B-Dubs]

make the theme k-on

The Dem OT's are hard as hell since there are very few obvious jokes and everyone is fairly sane. I've got a couple I think could work, but I'm not getting another primary debate OT until January.

 

[Lucky Forward]

They can wait if they like until next November for the actual balloting, but Donald Trump was elected president tonight.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) November 14, 2015

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ann-coulter-donald-trump-paris-tweets

 

[User 406]

See, I don't believe in mandatory voting. I think that we do have the freedom to not vote should we not wish to. I'm all for automatic registration and automatic absentee ballots/vote by mail. Just because you're registered for something doesn't mean that you're being forced to do it. I think that would help turnout greatly. Of course, we know the GOp will do everything in their power to stop it fro happening.

I figure if you are going to be forced to do anything by the state, and there are many such things, such as paying taxes, jury duty, registering for selective service, and so on, then governing your own damn country should be A-number-1. And it would do more to improve political literacy than any other measure, simply because everyone would be doing it.

 

[kingkitty]

The Dem OT's are hard as hell since there are very few obvious jokes and everyone is fairly sane. I've got a couple I think could work, but I'm not getting another primary debate OT until January.

the next Dem debate is Dec 19th, who has that one? lol

which is also on a saturday, really stellar scheduling.

 

[B-Dubs]

the next Dem debate is Dec 19th, who has that one? lol

which is also on a saturday, really stellar scheduling.

Oh, well I'll grab it then. I should be mostly done with my story by then anyway.

 

[kingkitty]

Oh, well I'll grab it then. I should be mostly done with my story by then anyway.

then I'll grab January.

 

[Oblivion]

I'm either doing Star Wars original trilogy, Star Trek the original series,

Spoiler

or Spaceballs

Star Wars!

If only cause I don't know jack shit about Star Trek.

Spoiler

..and Spaceballs.

 

[B-Dubs]

Star Wars!

If only cause I don't know jack shit about Star Trek.

Spoiler

..and Spaceballs.

HOW DO YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE SCHWARTZ!?!

 

[Coriolanus]

which is also on a saturday, really stellar scheduling.

From a realpolitik perspective, it really is.

 

[User 463088]

I figure if you are going to be forced to do anything by the state, and there are many such things, such as paying taxes, jury duty, registering for selective service, and so on, then governing your own damn country should be A-number-1. And it would do more to improve political literacy than any other measure, simply because everyone would be doing it.

Although I am extremely liberal on nearly every thing I can think of, I occasionally have a few libertarian streaks that run through me. This is one of them. Electing not to vote is a personal decision. Would I prefer everyone to vote? Absolutely. I just don't like the idea of forcing people to vote. Like I said, I feel like automatic registration should be in place. I feel like election day should be a national holiday. I think that all states should allow everyone to vote absentee without any reason (and should automatically send those ballots out).

 

[Coriolanus]

If we discussing electoral pipe dream measures, i'd absolutely love to give prisoners the right to vote. Even while arrested. For any reason.

 

[Oblivion]

HOW DO YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE SCHWARTZ!?!

I'm bad at movies, B-Dubs. I'm not proud of it.

Here's a sample of other well known movies I have yet to see:

Spoiler

- Any of the Lord of the Rings
- Any of the Matrixes
- The Princess Bride
- Groundhog's Day
- The Big Lebowski
- Ferris Bueller's Day Off

And there's MORE. D:

 

[User 406]

Although I am extremely liberal on nearly every thing I can think of, I occasionally have a few libertarian streaks that run through me. This is one of them. Electing not to vote is a personal decision. Would I prefer everyone to vote? Absolutely. I just don't like the idea of forcing people to vote. Like I said, I feel like automatic registration should be in place. I feel like election day should be a national holiday. I think that all states should allow everyone to vote absentee without any reason (and should automatically send those ballots out).

Still not enough. Ballots you get in the mail will just be more tossable spam as far as disinterested voters are concerned. Hell, we still have to pay postage to send them back in Ohio.

If the purpose of our democratic system is to govern by the will of the people, failing to completely assess that will reduces the fidelity of the result. Even the people who spoil their ballot, write in joke candidates, or write theses in the margins about the illegitimacy of the state are part of the nation's political will, and there is no reason they can't continue to express that. But we lose when people who do have an opinion don't show, or can't show due to abusive practices that manipulate turnout simply because the whole exercise is considered optional.

I have to wonder what is behind strong feelings that people should be able to avoid voting. It's not just from you either, I've heard similar opinions expressed from others. It always seems to me to be one of those "rights" that stems from a kind of nitpicky semantic attitude towards freedom that libertarians often get bogged down in, to the detriment of actually getting shit done.

Can you articulate a reason why people should be allowed to skip voting but not skip jury duty? Seriously, if we even have the concept of civic duties that citizens must participate in, why is voting not top of the list? The franchise is the foundation of our country.

If we discussing electoral pipe dream measures, i'd absolutely love to give prisoners the right to vote. Even while arrested. For any reason.

 

[Gotchaye]

Although I am extremely liberal on nearly every thing I can think of, I occasionally have a few libertarian streaks that run through me. This is one of them. Electing not to vote is a personal decision. Would I prefer everyone to vote? Absolutely. I just don't like the idea of forcing people to vote. Like I said, I feel like automatic registration should be in place. I feel like election day should be a national holiday. I think that all states should allow everyone to vote absentee without any reason (and should automatically send those ballots out).

I think that most people who are in favor of some sort of mandatory voting scheme would be fine with it being possible to not have any impact on the election. Like, almost everyone would be fine with a "none of the above" option on every question. Most would be fine with a single "I'm not voting" checkbox at the top of the sheet. Probably most would be fine with people just returning a blank ballot.

So it depends what you mean by "electing not to vote". Some people will argue that it's really important to be able to not participate in the process in any way - that it's even important to be able to not follow the state's procedure for informing the state that you're not voting. This strikes me as not worth being that worried about; this is an actual concern for only a handful of people.

But it's important that not voting not be much easier than voting. You talk about wanting voting day to be a national holiday, etc., and clearly you're thinking here that it should be easy for everyone to take the opportunity to vote. These sorts of things are all imperfect fixes, though - only a minority of workers get national holidays off work, for example. And anything like this makes it very easy for people who don't want high voter turnout to sneak voter suppression into the law and then to argue that it's just that some people are choosing not to vote.

The only really foolproof way to make sure that there's no opportunity cost to voting is to add some cost to not voting. If voting and not voting require exactly the same time and effort, then you know that the only people not voting are people who don't want to vote. If it turns out that this makes the process very annoying for casual non-voters, then that's a sign that voting was too inconvenient and should be made more convenient, not that non-voting alone should be made more convenient. This is what most people who favor mandatory voting want to accomplish; it's not about forcing people to register a preference when they don't want to.

 

[brainchild]

Still not enough. Ballots you get in the mail will just be more tossable spam as far as disinterested voters are concerned. Hell, we still have to pay postage to send them back in Ohio.

If the purpose of our democratic system is to govern by the will of the people, failing to completely assess that will reduces the fidelity of the result. Even the people who spoil their ballot, write in joke candidates, or write theses in the margins about the illegitimacy of the state are part of the nation's political will, and there is no reason they can't continue to express that. But we lose when people who do have an opinion don't show, or can't show due to abusive practices that manipulate turnout simply because the whole exercise is considered optional.

I have to wonder what is behind strong feelings that people should be able to avoid voting. It's not just from you either, I've heard similar opinions expressed from others. It always seems to me to be one of those "rights" that stems from a kind of nitpicky semantic attitude towards freedom that libertarians often get bogged down in, to the detriment of actually getting shit done.

Can you articulate a reason why people should be allowed to skip voting but not skip jury duty? Seriously, if we even have the concept of civic duties that citizens must participate in, why is voting not top of the list? The franchise is the foundation of our country.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you're saying, but we're in the minority. Americans don't like being forced to do anything. If they didn't have to pay taxes, they wouldn't. If they didn't have to do jury duty, they wouldn't. However, our country can't really function properly without those particular mandates, so it's a concession they're willing to deal with.

Anyway, as I've said earlier in this thread when I made similar arguments, put mandatory voting up to a vote (after everyone has been forced to do it). Once we have a true consensus on the matter, if the people don't want mandatory voting, so be it. If they do, it would significantly change the fate of our country for the better.

 

[User 463088]

Still not enough. Ballots you get in the mail will just be more tossable spam as far as disinterested voters are concerned. Hell, we still have to pay postage to send them back in Ohio.

If the purpose of our democratic system is to govern by the will of the people, failing to completely assess that will reduces the fidelity of the result. Even the people who spoil their ballot, write in joke candidates, or write theses in the margins about the illegitimacy of the state are part of the nation's political will, and there is no reason they can't continue to express that. But we lose when people who do have an opinion don't show, or can't show due to abusive practices that manipulate turnout simply because the whole exercise is considered optional.

I have to wonder what is behind strong feelings that people should be able to avoid voting. It's not just from you either, I've heard similar opinions expressed from others. It always seems to me to be one of those "rights" that stems from a kind of nitpicky semantic attitude towards freedom that libertarians often get bogged down in, to the detriment of actually getting shit done.

Can you articulate a reason why people should be allowed to skip voting but not skip jury duty? Seriously, if we even have the concept of civic duties that citizens must participate in, why is voting not top of the list? The franchise is the foundation of our country.

I believe that voting is, in part, exercising your right to free speech and free expression. Electing to say nothing (i.e. choosing not to vote) is a valid, albeit stupid, decision. So, I have constitutional issues with it. Yes, people could elect to vote "None" or "Not Interested" but they're still being forced to express themselves. The Constitution could, of course, be changed to make it mandatory.

Again, a lot of it is just a personal feeling on the matter. I simply don't think that's the path we should take. Americans have this asinine tendency to rebel when we're "forced" to do something. I think this is a good way of turning people off from actually getting involved.

I'm all for postage being paid for ballots. I'm all for early voting access. I want to see that expanded. I want automatic registration. I want all of those things. I simply think that that is a better path to take to get more people engaged. If they made it mandatory, would I be upset? Ya. Would I get really upset enough to do anything other than bitch about it. Naw. I just favor people becoming engaged on their own, not because we've held a gun to their head.

As to the jury selection thing, don't different states have different rules as to how you're selected for jury duty? Some base it on the voter registry. Others don't.

 

[Diablos]

They can wait if they like until next November for the actual balloting, but Donald Trump was elected president tonight.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) November 14, 2015

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ann-coulter-donald-trump-paris-tweets

Uh...

 

[User 406]

I believe that voting is, in part, exercising your right to free speech and free expression. Electing to say nothing (i.e. choosing not to vote) is a valid, albeit stupid, decision. So, I have constitutional issues with it. Yes, people could elect to vote "None" or "Not Interested" but they're still being forced to express themselves. The Constitution could, of course, be changed to make it mandatory.

Yeah, this is definitely libertarian hairsplitting I can't get behind. We do have limits on free speech and free expression, so that's not a compelling argument.

Again, a lot of it is just a personal feeling on the matter. I simply don't think that's the path we should take. Americans have this asinine tendency to rebel when we're "forced" to do something. I think this is a good way of turning people off from actually getting involved.

This really isn't borne out by history. If it was, then the conservatives who rail on about how government is destroying liberty by expanding its influence into peoples' lives would have been right, and they've never been right about this, since the American people have pretty much gone along with most governmental changes and expansions. The most you get is some complaining, and the odd sovereign citizen wacknut.

I'm all for postage being paid for ballots. I'm all for early voting access. I want to see that expanded. I want mandatory registration. I want all of those things. I simply think that that is a better path to take to get more people engaged. If they made it mandatory, would I be upset? Ya. Would I get really upset enough to do anything other than bitch about it. Naw. I just favor people becoming engaged on their own, not because we've held a gun to their head.

I'm not sure why mandatory registration is palatable but mandatory voting is not. There are plenty of militia types who are dead set against registering to vote because they don't want the government tracking them. It's a "personal decision" if you will.

As to the jury selection thing, don't different states have different rules as to how you're selected for jury duty? Some base it on the voter registry. Others don't.

It does vary, but that sidesteps the point, that we do have civic duties that our citizens are required to perform, and if you aren't advocating making them all optional, why is voting, the most fundamental civic duty of them all, special enough that it must remain optional?

 

[brainchild]

I believe that voting is, in part, exercising your right to free speech and free expression. Electing to say nothing (i.e. choosing not to vote) is a valid, albeit stupid, decision. So, I have constitutional issues with it. Yes, people could elect to vote "None" or "Not Interested" but they're still being forced to express themselves. The Constitution could, of course, be changed to make it mandatory.

Again, a lot of it is just a personal feeling on the matter. I simply don't think that's the path we should take. Americans have this asinine tendency to rebel when we're "forced" to do something. I think this is a good way of turning people off from actually getting involved.

I'm all for postage being paid for ballots. I'm all for early voting access. I want to see that expanded. I want mandatory registration. I want all of those things. I simply think that that is a better path to take to get more people engaged. If they made it mandatory, would I be upset? Ya. Would I get really upset enough to do anything other than bitch about it. Naw. I just favor people becoming engaged on their own, not because we've held a gun to their head.

As to the jury selection thing, don't different states have different rules as to how you're selected for jury duty? Some base it on the voter registry. Others don't.

But they're citizens of their country. It is their civic duty to vote, if for no other reason than to ensure that our country is governed by a proper representative democracy.

The same pillars of democracy that provide the people with free speech are the same pillars that need the people's voices to protect it. Saying "I choose not to vote" still protects their free speech, I'd say, as they'd simply be refusing to express themselves with a vote, while still contributing to the consensus.

 

[Coriolanus]

But it's important that not voting not be much easier than voting. You talk about wanting voting day to be a national holiday, etc., and clearly you're thinking here that it should be easy for everyone to take the opportunity to vote. These sorts of things are all imperfect fixes, though - only a minority of workers get national holidays off work, for example. And anything like this makes it very easy for people who don't want high voter turnout to sneak voter suppression into the law and then to argue that it's just that some people are choosing not to vote.

This is quite true. As an anecdotal example, Voting in brazil takes place every two years on the first sunday of october, is mandatory, voting booth workers are randomly selected among those registered and get the following day off by law, and you get locked out of a ton of civil services if you don't vote, among other things . To top it off, getting your voter's id is free, and for life. Also required to access some civil services. The penalties you get from not voting are mostly out of convenience, requiring you to go to an electoral court, present a justification and pay a *very* small fine, from which you're excused if you're poor.

thiiiing is that while we did most of the Dreams List of measures to increase voter turnout... if you're not currently at the city you've registered for? All you can (and have to) do is justify your vote. Will require you to go to a voting booth just like a regular voter, line up, present id and take a ticket confirming that you did just that. Wanna change your voting address? As inconvenient as the electoral court deal above.

With that one single measure and its ramifications? even though nearly everybody of voting age goes to a voting booth, only about 60% of the population actually casts a vote on someone.

More of an example of how Bad Things Happen very easily with voter attendance measures.

 

[Konka]

It annoys me personally how little civic duty people think they think they should be required to do. I mean the US has no mandatory service requirements like some countries. You're basically expected to sit on a Jury when asked and to vote, even if you want to go write yourself in. Yet people try to jump through hoops to get out of jury duty and are apathetic on voting. I do believe that to enjoy the rights of citizenship you should be willing to participate in these relatively easy civic duties.

Even if you write in Bugs Bunny I still think you're more likely to be knowledgable about the process if you have to drag your ass off the couch and go to the polling place.

 

[B-Dubs]

It annoys me personally how little civic duty people think they think they should be required to do. I mean the US has no mandatory service requirements like some countries. You're basically expected to sit on a Jury when asked and to vote, even if you want to go write yourself in. Yet people try to jump through hoops to get out of jury duty and are apathetic on voting. I do believe that to enjoy the rights of citizenship you should be willing to participate in these relatively easy civic duties.

Part of the thing with jury duty is you miss out on work and not everyone can afford that. Sure you get some pay, but it may not be enough.

EDIT: In my position jury duty sucks, partly because I lose out on a day's pay while I go down to the court and party because they'll never pick me in a million years due to my profession. So for me it's literally just a waste of a few days.

 

[kingkitty]

Part of the thing with jury duty is you miss out on work and not everyone can afford that. Sure you get some pay, but it may not be enough.

If you can prove there's enough financial hardship for being in jury duty, you might be able to skip it.

 

[brainchild]

If you can prove there's enough financial hardship for being in jury duty, you might be able to skip it.

Yep. Though I'm not sure how difficult this would be. I've never been on jury duty, which sucks, because it's been a personal dream of mine to get jury duty!

 

[Konka]

Part of the thing with jury duty is you miss out on work and not everyone can afford that. Sure you get some pay, but it may not be enough.

EDIT: In my position jury duty sucks, partly because I lose out on a day's pay while I go down to the court and party because they'll never pick me in a million years due to my profession. So for me it's literally just a waste of a few days.

You can get financial exemptions. And while sure, that happens. A large number of people will probably be paid by their employers and those are the people I take issue with most of all.

 

[B-Dubs]

You can get financial exemptions. And while sure, that happens. A large number of people will probably be paid by their employers and those are the people I take issue with most of all.

Don't you have to go down there and argue your case for that? It's still a day's worth of missed pay, which can be a pretty big deal depending on how much you make.

EDIT: That's fair enough. If you're getting your full wage by your employer and still don't want to go then that's fucked up.

I've never been on jury duty, which sucks, because it's been a personal dream of mine to get jury duty!

Same. The only time I was ever called up is when I was hospitalized so I couldn't go. I'd love to go down and serve on a jury, but they'd never pick me in a million years.

 

[Konka]

Don't you have to go down there and argue your case for that? It's still a day's worth of missed pay, which can be a pretty big deal depending on how much you make.

EDIT: That's fair enough. If you're getting your full wage by your employer and still don't want to go then that's fucked up.



Same. The only time I was ever called up is when I was hospitalized so I couldn't go. I'd love to go down and serve on a jury, but they'd never pick me in a million years.

No, you can write a letter.

 

[brainchild]

Same. The only time I was ever called up is when I was hospitalized so I couldn't go. I'd love to go down and serve on a jury, but they'd never pick me in a million years.

I'd be SO PISSED if that happened to me!

 

[B-Dubs]

I'd be SO PISSED if that happened to me!

You have no idea how pissed I was because this overlapped with a story I missed out on getting a scoop on while I was in college.

 

[User 463088]

Firstly, let me apologize of my arguments are not up to what I would normally like to post. I either have the plauge or some hitherto unknown flu virus that is worse than death itself. My fever's finally down to 102, so I have that going for me which is nice. If I miss something someone said to me, it's not because I don't want to engage in the issue.

Yeah, this is definitely libertarian hairsplitting I can't get behind. We do have limits on free speech and free expression, so that's not a compelling argument.

Right. We do. But the government does not have the right to compel you to speak.

I'm not sure why mandatory registration is palatable but mandatory voting is not. There are plenty of militia types who are dead set against registering to vote because they don't want the government tracking them. It's a "personal decision" if you will.

I corrected my initial post. I meant automatic registration, not mandatory registration. If a person doesn't want to be registered, I think it's fine to allow them to opt out or resend their registration should they wish to do so.

It does vary, but that sidesteps the point, that we do have civic duties that our citizens are required to perform, and if you aren't advocating making them all optional, why is voting, the most fundamental civic duty of them all, special enough that it must remain optional?

I think that voting is the action of a good, intelligent and informed citizen. I believe voting is a right. I believe that anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote. I believe we should do a lot of things to make it even easier to vote. I think those that chose not to vote are wrong, but I do not think they should be made to do so.

There may not be a good reason for me other than I just don't think it's a good idea. I worry about the penalties for those who cannot vote. Are there financial penalties? Are we going to arrest them? not let them get assistance? Because those who do not vote now because they cannot would be far more negatively impacted than those who simply elect not to vote.

So, I'm still firmly in the no column. However, depending on the proposal, I'd be open to looking into it more. Maybe I'm entirely wrong. It's been known to happen far too often.

 

[dramatis]

Jury duty is boring though. You sit in a huge room for hours with a bunch of strangers.

 

[Konka]

Jury duty is boring though. You sit in a huge room for hours with a bunch of strangers.

....

 

[NobleXenon]

I was selected for Jury Duty when I was in High School, lol.

It was three months after I tuned 18. I never went because by the time the selection process was starting, I was living in another State.