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[brainchild]

One highlight (for me anyway) was the crickets that were heard when Ted Cruz introduced himself. (ok not actual crickets, but still!)

Not a single decibel of applause!


EDIT:

https://youtu.be/HFIcKGS7SZk

 

[danm999]

I missed it too, but it sounds like Trump devoured a few souls tonight.

He had his moments but I think the longer form demonstrated a few issues his campaign had with foreign policy.

He did well at the "Obama is so stupid; here's all the fucked up stuff" phase of the foreign policy discussion, but when everybody else starting taking solutions (I use that word loosely; Fiorina basically advocated starting another Cold War, for instance) he kind of came unstuck and could only say things like "I'll talk to Putin" or "I'll get some experts and we'll figure this out later".

In terms of attacks he called Rand Paul ugly and suggested he shouldn't be on the stage because of his low poll numbers almost immediately. He mocked Jeb as uneneegetic and dumped on Scott Walker's fiscal record.

 

[Black Mamba]

from your own post:



that's two?

by highlights I mean attacks, we know there's not going to be much else

jeb! named himself everready for his secret service code name. Trump laughed and high fived him. Then Trump called his codename Humble.

There was the awkward high 5 to handshake Trump and Carson had. That was funny. someone post the gif.

as mentioned, trump called Paul ugly. Carly said the everyone should see the PP videos cuz it shows an alive fetus on the table and people yelling to keep it alive so they could sell its organs for profit (a massive lie).

Oh and Rubio brought his own water because California is in a drought. Fuck you, Rubio.

 

[Jack Remington]

The anti-WAR approach is how Mike Trout got robbed of an MVP that should have been his.

 

[watershed]

One highlight (for me anyway) was the crickets that were heard when Ted Cruz introduced himself. (ok not actual crickets, but still!)

Not a single decibel of applause!


EDIT:

https://youtu.be/HFIcKGS7SZk

Lol, he was so over acting his intro. He even did the classic speak softly during an intimate moment thing.

 

[Jack Remington]

Ted Cruz is a homunculus.

 

[Black Mamba]

Oh man, I wonder if Bush gets ahold of this Roberts bit regarding Cruz.

 Ted Cruz, a 29-year-old domestic-policy adviser on the Bush campaign at the time and a former law clerk for Chief Justice William Rehnquist, put together Bush’s legal team. One of his first calls was to John Roberts, whom Cruz knew from the close-knit network of former Rehnquist clerks, nicknamed the Cabal.

“We started to assemble a team of the best lawyers and in particular the best Supreme Court lawyers in the country, and John’s name naturally came near the top of the list,” Cruz told The New York Times in 2005. Roberts, who had clerked for Rehnquist in 1980 and was now in private practice, caught the next flight to Tallahassee.

 Roberts’s name appeared on no briefs, but his influence was unmistakable. “He is one of the finest legal writers of his generation,” Cruz said. “His editing pen was invaluable.”

http://www.thenation.com/article/ho...ed-to-a-new-wave-of-voter-disenfranchisement/

 

[B-Dubs]

In terms of attacks he called Rand Paul ugly and suggested he shouldn't be on the stage because of his low poll numbers almost immediately. He mocked Jeb as uneneegetic and dumped on Scott Walker's fiscal record.

I'm a little shocked he didn't try to devour Fiorina and Carson's souls as well. Maybe three souls at a time is his limit.

 

[brainchild]

Question...

In a hypothetical scenario where Carly gets the RNC nomination and Hillary the DNC nomination, who would 'win' the debates?

*in the voice of Jonas Hodges* Hillary's good... Carly's good too

Obviously Hillary has the policy advantage, but Carly seems to be the more effective of the two in terms of oratory. Carly has a commanding presence and strongly gives off the impression that she's impervious to any kind of attacks. Hillary has demonstrated the ability to dismantle logical fallacies and present her arguments clearly and convincingly.

I'm not sure who'd win, tbh.

 

[Jack Remington]

Hillary would dismantle her.

The validity of your talking points is at least somewhat important when it's you vs the other party's candidate. Fiorina would be at a huge disadvantage by virtue of being wrong about most things.

 

[Officerrob]

Biggest Loser of the night: Scott Walker

Where the hell is this guy? I cannot remember one thing he said in that debate. He's got to asset himself more, because that was embarrassing.

 

[Black Mamba]

Question...

In a hypothetical scenario where Carly gets the RNC nomination and Hillary the DNC nomination, who would 'win' the debates?

*in the voice of Jonas Hodges* Hillary's good... Carly's good too

Obviously Hillary has the policy advantage, but Carly seems to be the more effective of the two in terms of oratory. Carly has a commanding presence and strongly gives off the impression that she's impervious to to any kind of attacks. Hillary has demonstrated the ability to dismantle logical fallacies and present her arguments clearly and convincingly.

I'm not sure who'd win, tbh.

Dude, Carly ran here in California and was destroyed in the debates. Don't worry about her.


Sidenote: Watching Colbert and holy shit at Spacey's Jimmy Stewart impression. Used to think Jim Carey's was the top...

 

[brainchild]

I'm a little shocked he didn't try to devour Fiorina and Carson's souls as well. Maybe three souls at a time is his limit.

And that was towards the beginning of the debate. He seemed purposefully tamer this time, which was a little disappointing.

Hillary would dismantle her.

The validity of your talking points is at least somewhat important when it's you vs the other party's candidate. Fiorina would be at a huge disadvantage by virtue of being wrong about most things.

This is true, but the dismantling is in the sense of the arguments being valid, not them seeming valid, which is the more important of the two in the debates.

Of course, I'm just talking about the hypothetical performances in debates, not how they'd fare against each other in the general election.

Dude, Carly ran here in California and was destroyed in the debates. Don't worry about her.


Sidenote: Watching Colbert and holy shit at Spacey's Jimmy Stewart impression. Used to think Jim Carey's was the top...

Trust me, I consider her completely unelectable. I was just curious about the general perception of who won the debates according to American voters.

 

[thepotatoman]

Question...

In a hypothetical scenario where Carly gets the RNC nomination and Hillary the DNC nomination, who would 'win' the debates?

*in the voice of Jonas Hodges* Hillary's good... Carly's good too

Obviously Hillary has the policy advantage, but Carly seems to be the more effective of the two in terms of oratory. Carly has a commanding presence and strongly gives off the impression that she's impervious to any kind of attacks. Hillary has demonstrated the ability to dismantle logical fallacies and present her arguments clearly and convincingly.

I'm not sure who'd win, tbh.

Carly would win the first debate no question. Hillary is practically an incumbent and challengers always get a big boost in stature when they're seen on the same stage as the incumbent. It's a case of lopsided expectations that the incumbent almost never wins. Hillary would win the next two easily.

 

[pigeon]

This is true, but the dismantling is in the sense of the arguments being valid, not them seeming valid, which is the more important of the two in the debates.

That's what Mitt Romney thought until the second debate. Eventually being wrong about everything does have costs, although not as quickly as you might hope.

If I ran a presidential debate, everybody would get an iPad with wifi and the ability to quickly display links for the audience. I think the whole memorization, prepare for everything strategy is frankly outmoded for a digital world. Real presidents Google things.

 

[brainchild]

Carly would win the first debate no question. Hillary is practically an incumbent and challengers always get a big boost in stature when they're seen on the same stage as the incumbent. It's a case of lopsided expectations that the incumbent almost never wins. Hillary would win the next two easily.

I don't know. Carly is pretty good at using the appeal to emotion for argumentation. One area I feel she'd be stronger at than Hillary is abortion. Between her strong convictions and anecdotes, I can't see her losing that one.

I need to see her talk more about subjects she's not comfortable talking about (like probably economy) and see how she fares then.

That's what Mitt Romney thought until the second debate. Eventually being wrong about everything does have costs, although not as quickly as you might hope.

If I ran a presidential debate, everybody would get an iPad with wifi and the ability to quickly display links for the audience. I think the whole memorization, prepare for everything strategy is frankly outmoded for a digital world. Real presidents Google things.

Very true, though I'm not sure if she'd be on the 'very wrong side of things' this election season, in the eyes of the American voters. I guess we'll see soon enough.

 

[kess]

Okay, here's my observations:

You can almost tell when Bush is slipping into campaign autopilot -- that said, he was pretty gutless and unassured the entire debate. He wilts terribly under pressure -- even going so far to agree with Huckabee on Kim Davis! But his statement of support was so noncommittal and conditional I doubt he's going to sway voters either way. The high five with Trump made him look like a dweeb, especially after his righteous indignation earlier on in the debate.

I mentioned that Fiorina is theatrical a few posts ago, but her mannerisms had a hard, sneering edge to them. I can understand her disgust for Trump, but she seemed to have issues with other candidates as well. Perhaps it's just a reflection of her positions, because she seemed more of a pure ideologue than everyone except Huckabee and Cruz. Was she like this when she ran for Senate in California?

It's hard to tell where Carson's going to go from this point, because he has these extreme issues but he's been so soft spoken and unconfrontational during these debates. He's so non-threatening to Trump that he's the only candidate who hasn't activated Trump's snark blast.

Rubio isn't as out front with the religious stuff as much as Huckabee is, but he definitely puts it out there, and the crowd was feeling it. I think he's trying to be folksy in the same way Biden is but his family anecdotes are well worn territory.

Walker took an orthodox position on every issue and amusingly referred to Trump's criticism as liberal tactics, but he's a total non-entity on the stage. No personality.

Cruz was slinging red meat everywhere.

Christie politicked all over the place and had another chance to talk about 9/11. Amusingly, he was plugging a drug law that came from his "crazy liberal" legislature.

Unlike the rest of the field, Paul seemed to relish his contrarian stance on most of the issues presented to him. He's probably closer to Trump in more ways than he'd care to admit.

Kasich, again, took a relatively moderate position on most issues and had a fairly logical response to the Iran deal.

Huckabee was vile, and never seriously countered.

I think Trump will stay in the lead, with gains by Fiorina, Rubio, and maybe, Cruz. Bush will wallow on with the same core of voters, and I'm struggling to imagine who Carson's performance would please.

 

[Maledict]

In terms of Bush, Why would you be surprised by him supporting Kim Davis? This is the guy who behaved in an appallingly, truly appalling way over Terry Schiavo remember. He's misused office before to pander to the religious base and his own fucked up beliefs.

(I honestly don't get why that incident hasn't come up more, unless it's so verboten for the republican field that Hilary will bring it out in the election cycle. Truly one of the lowest points of american politics over the last couple of decades).

 

[kess]

In terms of Bush, Why would you be surprised by him supporting Kim Davis? This is the guy who behaved in an appallingly, truly appalling way over Terry Schiavo remember. He's misused office before to pander to the religious base and his own fucked up beliefs.

(I honestly don't get why that incident hasn't come up more, unless it's so verboten for the republican field that Hilary will bring it out in the election cycle. Truly one of the lowest points of american politics over the last couple of decades).

I'm not terribly surprised-- but Bush spoke explicitly on the issue, what, a week ago? His message control is wack.

Schaivo and Stand Your Ground have been conspicuously absent from the debates or news coverage, although I'm absolutely sure the crowd at the debate tonight would have supported him wholeheartedly on both issues. If anything, it's one of his bonafides with the base.

 

[Black Mamba]

I'm not terribly surprised-- but Bush spoke explicitly on the issue, what, a week ago? His message control is wack.

Schaivo and Stand Your Ground have been conspicuously absent from the debates or news coverage, although I'm absolutely sure the crowd at the debate tonight would have supported him wholeheartedly on both issues. If anything, it's one of his bonafides with the base.

The crowd tonight were rich white California Republicans. This is not the base. It's why they didn't care to applaud Cruz. They don't give two shits about guns and schiavo.

These people only care about tax cuts.

 

[brainchild]

Just read somewhere that Fiorina is 61 years old?!! Holy SHIT she looks good for her age!

 

[Jack Remington]

Carly would win the first debate no question. Hillary is practically an incumbent and challengers always get a big boost in stature when they're seen on the same stage as the incumbent. It's a case of lopsided expectations that the incumbent almost never wins. Hillary would win the next two easily.

Hillary is not the incumbent. She's not even the VP; she's someone with a very distinctive political identity.

Hillary would win fairly easily. Fiorina is on the wrong side of public opinion on economic issues, and on foreign policy it's not even close.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Just read somewhere that Fiorina is 61 years old?!! Holy SHIT she looks good for her age!

Pretty damn good.

 

[Plinko]

Other than Fiorina getting 10 more points, I have no idea how the voters will react to that debate.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Oh and Rubio brought his own water because California is in a drought. Fuck you, Rubio.

You missed the point of that. He was poking fun at himself.

 

[User 406]

Couldn't help but notice that Carson's biggest applause line was when he talked about putting his mother on the $10 bill, complete with dogwhistles about how she raised him "not to be a victim". He really is playing that role.

 

[Y2Kev]

Jeb was clearly the loser here. He set out with a purpose to appear less beta and boy was he beta as hell. His opening speech was scripted and inhuman. He got literally talked-over by Trump at least twice. He let Trump say "no not true not true" "that's a lie" "that's false" sixty times. He totally flopped again on the Brother Bush topic (seriously, could it be any more obvious the RNC is packing the house with shills here? nobody could seriously clap for W, especially not in the tea party...and Cruz got no reaction at all all night). He demanded Trump apologize to his wife for a comment he made about Jeb (?). He got exposed on the "act of love" stuff the base will go nuts over. His most interesting and humanizing moment is when he said he smoked pot 40 years ago.

I don't even think of Walker as an entity anymore. Everyone last night was like HUCKABEE POST IF U R OK but it was actually Walker who got the least speaking time. I thought he came out of the gate aggressive but must have gotten thrown off by Trump calling him a fuckwad or something because he immediately shut up. I'm starting to think he just only has a few prepared remarks and can't speak extemporaneously at all. He again brought up the "thousands of protestors" as some sign of him being tested. I can't imagine this line polls well with focus groups. Is it all he has to say? Come on.

Fiorina will rise. She's basically evil but she is such neatly packaged evil. Everything she says makes her sound smart. I'm not sure if that's a pro. lol. Obviously she is the only one who has been able to handle Trump at all with any ability at all. Fantastic job.

Rubio is such a bitch. I just can't even with him.

Huckabee cruz kasich zzzz

Carson is just too boring. I really don't understand his appeal. If you want batshit crazy, there's like 40 other options. If you want batshit crazy and loud, there's Trump. He's obviously working hard to stay out of the Trumpster's sights. I thought he did better than last time.

Trump did meh. I thought basically the only thing that could hurt him happened to him tonight-- he got burned by someone else. And I thought attacking Rand Paul right out of the gate was odd. The NYT just ran a story on how he's become a more disciplined candidate. That was really odd.

Chris Christie is a fuckwad. Can't wait for him to be out of the race. He's basically reviled here in New Jersey and I'd love for him to get taken down by this new scandal. Come on US attorneys. speed it up.

 

[Plinko]

Scanning through some GOP/conservative boards, I'm surprised to see many people criticizing Fiorina for scowling all the time and coming off as rude--even worries about her hawkishness with foreign policy.

Then again, on the other hand, I'm also seeing many people say Carson "won" the debate, and I thought he was a complete disaster, so who knows.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah I mean which republicans want to be lectured to about being intellectual

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Scanning through some GOP/conservative boards, I'm surprised to see many people criticizing Fiorina for scowling all the time and coming off as rude--even worries about her hawkishness with foreign policy.

Then again, on the other hand, I'm also seeing many people say Carson "won" the debate, and I thought he was a complete disaster, so who knows.

This is really starting to bother me. The man clearly has no idea what he's doing and doesn't belong on the stage, but people keep lapping up his bullshit.

 

[User 406]

Scanning through some GOP/conservative boards, I'm surprised to see many people criticizing Fiorina for scowling all the time and coming off as rude--even worries about her hawkishness with foreign policy.

She's a woman. Assertiveness is a turn-off for the right. They'll only give her a pass for it if she's on stage against Clinton, where they'll have an even better target for their sexism. But against a bunch of men? She's bossy and rude.

Then again, on the other hand, I'm also seeing many people say Carson "won" the debate, and I thought he was a complete disaster, so who knows.

Like I mentioned above, I really think Carson is aiming to be the GOP's Magical Negro, and he's clearly making inroads there. The dogwhistling answer from the first debate could potentially be written off as a quick escape from a racial question, but this question had zilch to do with race and he still tied it in to an appeal to colorblind racism. He's soft-spoken, folksy, non-threatening, spouts religiously grounded home-spun wisdom, and affirms the prejudices of his audience by deliberately separating himself as "one of the good ones".

One of the things to keep in mind about racism is this country is that there is a lot of acceptance for blacks who know their place. I know it's paradoxical that this particular trope of white supremacy is being applied to a candidate for the most powerful office on Earth, but Carson is absolutely mining that vein. He's the black friend every racist insists on having.

I'm greatly interested to see if any race relations/BLM questions pop up in the next debate, and whether Carson will continue to capitalize on respectability politics and colorblindess.

 

[Plinko]

If I was Trump, I'd be furious with the GOP for clearly handpicking establishment audience members. I mean, that was ridiculous. It is that type of thing that will drive him to run third party.

One of the things I wonder about with Fiorina is the "glass ceiling"--how many republicans wouldn't support her in the primary because she is an assertive woman? Going to be interesting to see.

I still think she leads polling heading into the next debate where she will then be targeted by others and her numbers will plummet soon after.

Like I mentioned above, I really think Carson is aiming to be the GOP's Magical Negro, and he's clearly making inroads there. The dogwhistling answer from the first debate could potentially be written off as a quick escape from a racial question, but this question had zilch to do with race and he still tied it in to an appeal to colorblind racism. He's soft-spoken, folksy, non-threatening, spouts religiously grounded home-spun wisdom, and affirms the prejudices of his audience by deliberately separating himself as "one of the good ones".

Yep--I've been saying this for months in this thread.

 

[HylianTom]

The Carson moment that killed me was when he made reference to the government paying for phones. That right there made me stop and yell, "really, dude?"

Which means I'm sure that the FreeRepublic/Breitbart crowd must've eaten it up.

 

[Diablos]

This was post #1776, by the way.

Also:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clinton-is-in-a-self-reinforcing-funk/

Hillary, please do something that makes you look like a human being. Please?

 

[KingGondo]

So wait... When asked who they would put on the $10 bill, Kasich said Mother Teresa and Bush said Thatcher?

These fucking guys.

 

[Crisco]

Yeah, I'll admit to never knowing what Scott Walker looked like when he was just that crazy governor from Wisconsin, but the moment I saw him on a debate stage it was clear he had no shot at the WH. He just looks and sounds like a stupid. Wtf is wrong with people from Wisconsin?

 

[KingGondo]

Yeah, I'll admit to never knowing what Scott Walker looked like when he was just that crazy governor from Wisconsin, but the moment I saw him on a debate stage it was clear he had no shot at the WH. He just looks and sounds like a stupid. Wtf is wrong with people from Wisconsin?

I have a hard time trusting someone who went straight from college into politics.

I have an even harder time trusting someone who *quit* college to go into politics after spending his entire time there trying to be the Machiavelli of student government.

 

[The Gaming Gamer]

Yeah, I'll admit to never knowing what Scott Walker looked like when he was just that crazy governor from Wisconsin, but the moment I saw him on a debate stage it was clear he had no shot at the WH. He just looks and sounds like a stupid. Wtf is wrong with people from Wisconsin?

Wisconsin has a lot of rural areas that have contempt for Milwaukee and urban life, there are popular AM radio programs that just focus on this, along with a lack of democrat presence, it's easy to see how a candidate with tons of funding could do well appealing to this population.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It might be meaningless in terms of projecting "what this means" on some macro level but Jeb not really standing up for his wife was quite an ugly turn off to me. I'm going to assume Bush and his team planned that exchange days/weeks in advance but he still dropped the ball. Surely anyone could have bet Trump would refuse to apologize. Yet there was no follow up from Bush, he essentially shrugged in a "hey, what can ya do" fashion. That was an opportunity to outright say "...and you should be ashamed of yourself" or something similar.

On the other hand I thought Fiorina's handling of Trump was brilliant. She's right, women definitely hear and see how Trump treats/views women. And the fact that he responded by again making reference to her physical appearance further highlighted her point.

 

[NeoXChaos]

PD you confident your man will come back from the ashes?

 

[RDreamer]

Wisconsin has a lot of rural areas that have contempt for Milwaukee and urban life, there are popular AM radio programs that just focus on this, along with a lack of democrat presence, it's easy to see how a candidate with tons of funding could do well appealing to this population.

Yup. The big reason Walker won was stopping the train project that linked Milwaukee and Madison. There's a big divide in the state, and the rural areas are really resentful at having to pay for big things for the urban areas, like that train line.

It is funny looking back at that now after Walker approved the Bucks stadium, though...

 

[PhoenixDark]

PD you confident your man will come back from the ashes?

I think that Walker can survive the first cut of candidates, which will likely occur after the January contests. I'd imagine most of the second tier candidates will drop out, such as Santorum/Pataki/Graham (although I think Jindal might linger just so he can get onto the main stage of the February debate). In terms of the main stage I'd expect Huckabee and Paul to drop out, assuming neither does well in Iowa; Huckabee could survive as an evangelical leader but at this point he's not receiving any loyalty from those people. Point being: a reduction of the field will help guys like Walker and Cruz, who haven't received as much speaking time as they should at the debates.

Also right now Trump has sucked the air out of things. Once he falls in the polls I'd expect other candidates to have more time to speak/make an impression.

Walker still has actual campaign money. If I was his campaign adviser I'd be arguing Bush and Rubio have yet to reassure the establishment that they're the right guy. Both are floundering right now, as is Walker. But Bush and Rubio will also be subject to some really ugly campaign ads in a few months whereas I don't think Walker is going to have that problem.

 

[Wilsongt]

Yup. The big reason Walker won was stopping the train project that linked Milwaukee and Madison. There's a big divide in the state, and the rural areas are really resentful at having to pay for big things for the urban areas, like that train line.

It is funny looking back at that now after Walker approved the Bucks stadium, though...

He took money away from a liberal university so it's all good to them, I'm sure.

 

[Coriolanus]

In terms of Bush, Why would you be surprised by him supporting Kim Davis? This is the guy who behaved in an appallingly, truly appalling way over Terry Schiavo remember. He's misused office before to pander to the religious base and his own fucked up beliefs.

(I honestly don't get why that incident hasn't come up more, unless it's so verboten for the republican field that Hilary will bring it out in the election cycle. Truly one of the lowest points of american politics over the last couple of decades).

Well, consider
to the democrats, its a flagrant abuse of power, with a governor going out of his way to try to keep a vegetable alive and the husband suffering
to the republicans, its a clear case of the governor not doing enough to prevent a murder that could've totally been avoided

whoever wins, jeb loses. brutally. and the only way to appeal to the base here is via expansion of government.

 

[Plinko]

But Bush and Rubio will also be subject to some really ugly campaign ads in a few months whereas I don't think Walker is going to have that problem.

What? Jeb has a TON of money and Walker has so many negative things to publicize in a commercial that he'll be easy pickings.

 

[RDreamer]

What? Jeb has a TON of money and Walker has so many negative things to publicize in a commercial that he'll be easy pickings.

I think he's saying there's no point in going after someone polling as low as Walker is right now.

 

[Plinko]

I think he's saying there's no point in going after someone polling as low as Walker is right now.

Ah, ok. That makes sense.

 

[BSsBrolly]

God damn presidential elections. The republican candidates are so terrible. Each are shit in their own way, all of them would set us back as far as green energy is concerned. Most would set us back on marijuana. Not the mention the Supreme Court. It's too close for comfort, knowing one of these idiots has roughly a 50/50 shot at the presidency...

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think he's saying there's no point in going after someone polling as low as Walker is right now.

Yea. Also with immigration being the main focus I'd expect Bush ("act of love") and Rubio (helped create the senate immigration bill) to be savaged in attack ads. Walker has flip flopped on immigration obviously but his hands are far cleaner than those two.

I'd also expect Fiorina to be hit with gay marriage attack ads in Iowa and SC. Remember the last two people to win in Iowa were Santorum and Huckabee. Whoever wins will be a social conservative extremist.

 

[Plinko]

Yea. Also with immigration being the main focus I'd expect Bush ("act of love") and Rubio (helped create the senate immigration bill) to be savaged in attack ads. Walker has flip flopped on immigration obviously but his hands are far cleaner than those two.

I'd also expect Fiorina to be hit with gay marriage attack ads in Iowa and SC. Remember the last two people to win in Iowa were Santorum and Huckabee. Whoever wins will be a social conservative extremist.

This is a fantastic point that I think will be overlooked by the media for the entire next month.