I loled
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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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I loled
It's not even that. It's a person talking about cutting open an unrelated fetus recorded over a miscarried fetus that is not cut open.
Black Republican
Member
Trump: I will be interviewed by @donlemon tonight on @CNN at 10PM.
Fuckery on the same time as #empire
Fuckery on the same time as #empire
That ratings thirst trap
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm surprised Meta is arguing this path considering his penchant for literalness.
brainchild
Banned
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Quote the part of what Fiorina said that is rendered less accurate by the new information.
And I agree with you. What she said is not accurate. I've pointed to the precise points on which it is inaccurate. None of those points is that the video doesn't exist.
If I said, "Remember that movie where Darth Vader says, 'Luke, I am your father'?", would your response be, "No such movie exists you're a liar move along now!" Or would you say, "You mean Empire Strikes Back? That's not what he says, though, by the way."
To be clear, I'm Schwarzenegger.
I've been clear on this: Fiorina misdescribed a video that exists. I've described the respects in which Fiorina's description is literally inaccurate. What more could you possibly want?
brainchild
Banned
I REALLY don't think so, buddy.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
lol. If the NRSC couldn't even get that guy to run, who in the world could be left for them to support?
Right now, it's almost looking like Tim Nevill might end up being the nominee. A guy with no name recognition, no charisma, compares obama to hitler, and already has baggage from not following campaign finance rules.
At least George Brauchler might have brought some name recognition and moderacy.
This one is so sad.
This raises serious questions about her competence.
i agree.
Typing in Google - NPR Long Island shows the stations on LI. I can't support a candidate that doesn't know how to do basic searching.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Isn't Empire on at 9 pm?
http://www.ibj.com/articles/55085-jud-mcmillin-resigns-from-house-over-sex-video
One of the big sponsors of RFRA in Indiana, GOP Majority Leader in the State house resigns after sex video scandal. Apparently sent a mass-text of the video to his whole contact list accidentally.
One of the big sponsors of RFRA in Indiana, GOP Majority Leader in the State house resigns after sex video scandal. Apparently sent a mass-text of the video to his whole contact list accidentally.
brainchild
Banned
In all seriousness, these emails have provided me with far more entertainment value than I ever expected to get out of such mundane topics of conversation.
Jack Remington
Banned
How is Coors Light anyone's fav?
Looks like Burr is most definitely getting an actual challenger:
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/road-worrier-blog/article36294801.html
It's a parody.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/road-worrier-blog/article36294801.html
It's a parody.
Oh thank God
Aaron Strife
Banned
Did he really make that account over a year ago
Third Strike
Member
I really feel like NC is a lost cause next year for the Senate race. I don't see any of the potential challengers beating Burr in the election. I feel like the NC Democrats relied too heavily on Hagan running again, and didn't have a backup candidate when she opted out. At least Cooper has a shot at the governor's house...
He isn't running this election, but remember the name Jeff Jackson, current NC senator for Charlotte. I feel like he could have a strong chance in 2020 against Tillis.
http://firemccarthy.com/
Already starting and the man has not even been elected yet.
If there is a wave NC will come along no matter who it is.
Already starting and the man has not even been elected yet.
If there is a wave NC will come along no matter who it is.
brainchild
Banned
That's just rich. Only in America!
PhoenixDark
Banned
I can't hate. If you want to throw the bums out, you probably want to throw all the bums out.
I'm guessing McCarthy is going to be a lot less efficient than Boehner, and thus a disaster. No, we won't default on the debt; that will never happen. But I could see a shutdown happening.
It's not "parts" of her description are inaccurate. Her whole description is inaccurate. The fetus was not on a table, you can't see a beating heart through skin, and nobody was saying the words she said they were saying.
The additional information reveals that the video is not a video of an abortion, but of a premature birth. The video was not filmed at a Planned Parenthood location, but at a hospital.
You like interpreting literally, right? If we go by the exact words of what Fiorina said, she lied. No such video exists. You don't get to pick and choose the parts of her narrative and say they're false, and then say her overall story is true. lol
Damn, he's gonna be feeling that one for weeks.
Agreed, though it feels like a lot of these races, North Carolina included, will be determined more by the national election than the senators themselves.
For different reasons, Deborah Ross and Heath Shuler might be good candidate against an unpopular Burr in a swing state if the national mood tilts towards the Democrats.
To be fair, we don't know what Google returned for that search query five years ago, in 2010.
probably the same thing
Manmademan
Member
Apologies since I was at work, and usually can't respond when I'm there.
Actually, yes I can. It's happening right now. An article on trump's polling recovering had this fun tidbit at the bottom
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/30/poll-shows-donald-trump-still-ahead-with-some-warning-signs/
where do you think that's coming from? this is entirely a result of the planned parenthood fallout.
Blatantly lying about right wing talking points is one thing when the rest of the field is parroting the same bullshit. That's not happening here- fiorina is on her own, and the other 10 candidates or so in the running have every reason to damage her credibility with the voting public as much as possible. Doing so while STILL shitting on planned parenthood and keeping your cred with the base is trivial.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Fiorina's misdescription is not enough to show that she lied. It shows that she misdescribed the existing video that she clearly had in mind. That could have been a lie, or it could have been a mistake. I've criticized Fiorina for not correcting herself in subsequent interviews, because it makes it more likely that she's knowingly lying rather than simply making a mistake.
But she was clearly (mis)describing the video I've linked to, just as I would clearly be (mis)describing Empire Strikes Back when referring to the one where Darth Vader says, "Luke, I am your father." It's pure obfuscation to say that no such video (or movie) exists. It's clear what was meant in both cases, misdescriptions notwithstanding.
As I already explained, I am taking Fiorina's comment literally, and explaining on what points it is literally wrong. I take it, since we actually agree on this point, that you're only purpose in continuing to comment on this topic is to troll. Your snide comment about "interpreting literally" (meaning, thinking people mean what they say) tends to confirm that view.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Maybe not, though. Hagan was unknown when she won, and she won over Liddy Dole. Burr isn't nearly as well-known (but maybe that makes him less of a lightningrod).
But he also has poopy toilet approval numbers.
brainchild
Banned
Yeah, I'm not understanding why he's sticking to this notion of her statement being true overall.
Perhaps what he means is that her statements aren't baseless in the sense that we don't know the video she alleges to have shown all the things that she described; chances are that hospital video is the video she based her claims on, but everything that she said about what was shown in the video is wrong, aside from there being a fetus in it.
The problem, of course, is that there is no proof of this, just conjecture, so her statements are left to stand on their own. Looking at the evidence, it is clear that if the hospital video was the video in question, her statements would be proven to be patently false.
Perhaps she should have been more specific about which video we all should have been looking at before spouting off all that nonsense. But we know why she didn't, because that would make her claims falsifiable. At this point, unless she can produce a video that displays what she claims, anyone claiming that she spoke even somewhat truthfully about this needs to hang it up and move on.
Prove that that was the video she was talking about. If you can't, please stop with this nonsense.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
CNN knew immediately what video she was referring to. My post here contains their analysis. It also contains my own initial analysis of the video in light of Fiorina's claims. It also contains a link to the video--in fact, to the specific segment Fiorina was referring to. Here's a later post explaining that that video is one of the "Planned Parenthood" videos released by CMP, and further offering the following comparison of Fiorina's statement with what the video depicts:
That is my proof. It is more than sufficient.
brainchild
Banned
Evidence != Proof
What you have provided is a basis for what you believe to be the source of which Fiorina has based her claims. However, there is no proof of this. Essentially, any footage showing a fetus outside of the womb could qualify as 'evidence' for her claims, if that video is anything to go by.
Conjecture is not proof, and unless Fiorina gets more specific about WHERE she saw the video (not just what's in it), then she might as well have made up the whole thing.
The thing about blatant lies like this is that you can't even identify the source by its content because the content doesn't exist. Whatever mythical video she's referring to has yet to reveal itself, so either she comes up with a new claim in which the source can be unequivocally identified by its content, or she reveals the source of the claim. Fiorina has done neither, so she deserves exactly zero credibility on this matter.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
They're literally synonyms, dude.
That's my only response to this, because the rest of your argument is nonsense. If you applied that standard of proof to any other thing in your life, you'd be incapable of functioning.
Retromelon
Member
Good heavens. The eloquence
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It doesn't really matter if Fiorina intentionally lied or was just being disingenuous, the result is the same.
The other option is that she had some specific facts wrong and/or was misled by the propaganda. Not a ringing endorsement, either. And if the latter, why does she keep bringing up the point?
The other option is that she had some specific facts wrong and/or was misled by the propaganda. Not a ringing endorsement, either. And if the latter, why does she keep bringing up the point?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Because GOP voters don't care if she's lying or not. In fact, I can't honestly remember the last time a far-right GOP candidate was actually called out by his own people or had his numbers hurt by a lie.
brainchild
Banned
Metaphoreus is arguing with himself.
It sure seems that way, doesn't it?
Synonyms in the colloquial sense, but they are not interchangeable terms.
Anyway, that standard of proof is necessary for rational argumentation and sound logic. I don't need to apply it to most areas of my life, so I think I should be capable of functioning quite swimmingly, under the circumstances
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Right. Which means she's willing to peddle bullshit for political points even if it means messing with access to healthcare for women.
I don't know how that stands any reasonable test for somebody who's so anti-abortion that they don't care about facts.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Synonyms in the colloquial sense, but they are not interchangeable terms.
Anyway, that standard of proof is necessary for rational argumentation and sound logic. I don't need to apply it to most areas of my life, so I think I should be capable of functioning quite swimmingly, under the circumstances
No, that standard of proof isn't necessary for rational argument. Rational argument generally turns on probabilities--if A is more likely true than not-A, then one should rationally believe A. And a basis for a belief is evidence, or proof (which often are interchangeable). Your attempts to distinguish the concepts makes me wonder if you're not a robot having difficulty parsing the language.
Consider this in light of my Empire Strikes Back analogy. Imagine someone says, "Do you remember that movie where Darth Vader says, 'Luke, I am your father'?" Imagine someone else replying, "Yes, you're thinking of Empire Strikes Back, but that's not exactly what he says." Would you honestly contest that conclusion? Would you honestly say it hasn't been proven after being shown a clip of the pertinent scene? Of course you wouldn't! The main features described are all there: Darth Vader, his son Luke, the revelation of their familial relationship.
Likewise, the main features described by Fiorina are (mostly) there: an intact fetus (shown and described), its heart beating (described), its legs kicking (shown), while someone says they'll be harvesting its brain (described, but as "procuring"). While the "we have to keep it alive" bit is missing, there's enough here to demonstrate that she's merely misdescribing this particular clip, not inventing a scene whole cloth.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
All of of which is besides the point. She's believing and then peddling bullshit that's actively harmful and intentionally deceitful.
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