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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Is it often that you drown those you're arguing with in an ocean of pedantry?

This thread moves at a decent clip most of the time, but you've coated the last few pages with a thick molasses of meaningless analogy and intellectual dishonesty.

His normal style is pedantry, debating with Meta can be the most frustrating thing in the world because if you make one poor word choice you're going to spend the rest of the debate on that and nothing else.

Basically this isn't anything new.

I am not that sure she will.

Bernie's polling outside New England is practically joke candidate tier territory. Especially in the South. I know I keep saying this, but he needs a real game changing moment to win and I doubt Hillary will give him the opportunity. There's no Ted Kennedy to drape his arm around Bernie and say he's the guy so he'll have to manufacture his own--and even that may not be enough at this rate.
 

Iolo

Member
No, my position is that Fiorina inaccurately described a video she nevertheless clearly referenced.

Fiorina essentially watched a heavily spliced Youtube video of the first Star Wars trilogy in which, through clever cuts and dubbing, it is revealed that Obi Wan Kenobi is Han Solo's father. Fiorina then described to the American people, in lurid detail, how you can watch Solo murder Obi Wan in cold blood with a blaster as Obi Wan intones "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

We all know she's referring to Empire Strikes Back---and has confused events a bit with the first and third movie, who can keep them straight---but her conclusion is, of course, invalid. First, in the edited video, the murder actually takes place off-camera and is just described by an Imperial Stormtrooper who had infiltrated the rebel base. Second, the video does not portray the events that actually occurred in the trilogy (a minor point, to be fair). However, to your point, her comments (although inaccurate) clearly referenced and corresponded to an existing video released by starwarstruth184, of which fully 80% was sourced from the trilogy, along with 10% from Spaceballs and 5% from Kubrick's 2001, which similarly also takes place in space.

After being fact-checked and declared to be lying about the plot of Star Wars by several organizations--with the exception of CNN, who fell asleep during their Star Wars marathon and thus rated her statements as "plausible" out of 10--Fiorina doubled down, declaring events were exactly as the way she described them down to the slow-motion blood spatter on R2D2's carapace, that detractors obviously had not even watched the movies, and that they were "Lucas liberals" and part of the "Industrial-Light-and-Magic complex".

Pressed further, Fiorina angrily responded that "HAL shot first".
 

watershed

Banned
This thread has gotten so boring. Its just Meta and company debating nothing. I'm not even sure we're talking about politics anymore.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Is it often that you drown those you're arguing with in an ocean of pedantry?

This thread moves at a decent clip most of the time, but you've coated the last few pages with a thick molasses of meaningless analogy and intellectual dishonesty.

I don't think personal attacks are worth responding to. Was there any point about which you think I'm wrong? If so, what is it, and where do you think I've gone astray?
 
I don't think personal attacks are worth responding to. Was there any point about which you think I'm wrong? If so, what is it, and where do you think I've gone astray?

I think personal attacks are a fallacious form of argumentation, but are totally valid as a criticism regarding your conduct in this thread.

I can get pedantic too, so I can understand your penchant for precision, but you have to consider the impact that it can have in a thread like this. It's unproductive and unsightly for presumably most of the people who frequent this thread. It's one of the reasons I stopped arguing with you about this.

There's a point in a discussion where you realize that it would be better to just drop it. Apparently you have not reached that point, but I don't have that kind of tolerance, and I think there are other members who might feel the same way.

By all means, argue all you want, but I don't think it's wrong for people to complain about your posting habits if it affects the general tone of the thread.
 
I think personal attacks are a fallacious form of argumentation, but are totally valid as a criticism regarding your conduct in this thread.

I can get pedantic too, so I can understand your penchant for precision, but you have to consider the impact that it can have in a thread like this. It's unproductive and unsightly for presumably most of the people who frequent this thread. It's one of the reasons I stopped arguing with you about this.

There's a point in a discussion where you realize that it would be better to just drop it. Apparently you have not reached that point, but I don't have that kind of tolerance, and I think there are other members who might feel the same way.

By all means, argue all you want, but I don't think it's wrong for people to complain about your posting habits if it affects the general tone of the thread.

It takes two to tango, man. And for somone who "dropped it", you sure followed up with more.
 
What would make her not ?

Because if Sanders wins Iowa and New Hampshire (and he is not dramatically crushed in Nevada and SC) he may have a shot at carrying Colorado, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Vermont and Virginia during Super Tuesday. Granted, not the biggest pieces of the pie, but proportional representation can help in the states Clinton/Biden? will carry.
 
I hardly ever just flat-out ignore people who specifically request that I respond to their queries, as was the case with Meta.

Where did he specifically request your querie? He said "do what you want." Then, the quote you just responded too wasn't even a quote directed at you. Look in the mirror lately? I find your entire issue to be ironic considering your recent semantic tangents on the meaning of "nothing".
 
Where did he specifically request your querie? He said "do what you want." Then, the quote you just responded too wasn't even a quote directed at you. Look in the mirror lately? I find your entire issue to be ironic considering your recent semantic tangents on the meaning of "nothing".

Oh, I thought you were talking about the Fiorina discussion.

My previous post has nothing to do with Fiorina (which is the conversation I 'dropped'), but about the validity of any personal attacks on Meta. Totally different discussion.

BTW, that big bang argument was courteously moved to a PM discussion at my request, thank you very much ;)
 
Because if Sanders wins Iowa and New Hampshire (and he is not dramatically crushed in Nevada and SC) he may have a shot at carrying Colorado, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Vermont and Virginia during Super Tuesday. Granted, not the biggest pieces of the pie, but proportional representation can help in the states Clinton/Biden? will carry.

Not very likely. Demographics play a role because if Bernie does not get a lot of minorities to vote for him and moderate/conservative white democrats. It does not matter if he wins both or one of the other.

The one reason it help is if many demographics actually would prefer him over Hillary, but mostly staying with her because she has the better shot. The problem is that is not very likely, as many of the demographics have very little reason to support him and Hillary already has a built relationship. He needs to actually campaign and do a lot of ground work not by going to rallies that mostly is attend by white Americans and then saying how he can help black people. If he already doing that it doesn't seem like it is really helping him that much; it just seems Hillary is losing support among white americans. That also does not account for the fact that she might be very aggressive in campaigning . Also Bernie needs delegates and super delegates; one reasons Obama won was because he already had a lot of support from the establishment and manged to get the delegates. I doubt Bernie is capable of actually pulling that off as you can see he has no support from the democratic party.

I expect Bernie to poll ahead against Hillary on some cases, but there's a lot more factors we know more about democratic candidates than Republican ones. In this election, Democrats don't seem effected by polls like Republicans are. If he does poll ahead it just tells how the climate at that point and sometimes polling is shitty.


I think you are putting too much stock in Iowa and NH.
 
Not very likely. Demographics play a role because if Bernie does not get a lot of minorities to vote for him and moderate/conservative white democrats. It does not matter if he wins both or one of the other.

The one reason it help is if many demographics actually would prefer him over Hillary, but mostly staying with her because she has the better shot. The problem is that is not very likely, as many of the demographics have very little reason to support him and Hillary already has a built relationship. That also does not account for the fact that she might be very aggressive in campaigning . Also Bernie needs delegates and super delegates; one reasons Obama won was because he already had a lot of support from the establishment and manged to get the delegates. I doubt Bernie is capable of actually pulling that off as you can see he has no support from the democratic party.

I expect Bernie to poll ahead against Hillary on some cases, but there's a lot more factors we know more about democratic candidates than Republican ones. In this election, Democrats don't seem effected by polls like Republicans are. If he does poll ahead it just tells how the climate at that point and sometimes polling is shitty.


I think you are putting too much stock in Iowa and NH.

Minorities are not fixed Clinton-bots. If theres a momentum turn of tide for Sanders if he wins Iowa/NH (like it has happened in plenty of primaries before) they will respond to it.
 
Oh, I thought you were talking about the Fiorina discussion.

My previous post has nothing to do with Fiorina (which is the conversation I 'dropped'), but about the validity of any personal attacks on Meta. Totally different discussion.

BTW, that big bang argument was courteously moved to a PM discussion at my request, thank you very much ;)

I'm sorry, but I don't consider you scolding meta over a previous argument to be removed far enough from the argument itself.
 
If Clinton collapses, Biden enters. The establishment influence, infrastructure and money rallies around him. Biden wins. Because the Democratic party isn't going to field an independent that's going to get eviscerated by oppo and negative ad buys.

#timeforyourdailydoseofreality
 
Minorities are not fixed Clinton-bots. If theres a momentum turn of tide for Sanders if he wins Iowa/NH (like it has happened in plenty of primaries before) they will respond to it.

You are just giving me hypothetical arguments. Actually argue my points. I already explained why
If theres a momentum turn of tide for Sanders if he wins Iowa/NH
is not likely going to happen.


Obviously minorities aren't, but they aren't white liberal college kids either. If a candidate has a lot of support from a demographic and historical support good luck changing their views, especially if Hillary actually fights to keep them which she most likely will.

He might get some support, but not to the point that Hillary will lose.
 
Fiorina essentially watched a heavily spliced Youtube video of the first Star Wars trilogy in which, through clever cuts and dubbing, it is revealed that Obi Wan Kenobi is Han Solo's father. Fiorina then described to the American people, in lurid detail, how you can watch Solo murder Obi Wan in cold blood with a blaster as Obi Wan intones "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

We all know she's referring to Empire Strikes Back---and has confused events a bit with the first and third movie, who can keep them straight---but her conclusion is, of course, invalid. First, in the edited video, the murder actually takes place off-camera and is just described by an Imperial Stormtrooper who had infiltrated the rebel base. Second, the video does not portray the events that actually occurred in the trilogy (a minor point, to be fair). However, to your point, her comments (although inaccurate) clearly referenced and corresponded to an existing video released by starwarstruth184, of which fully 80% was sourced from the trilogy, along with 10% from Spaceballs and 5% from Kubrick's 2001, which similarly also takes place in space.

After being fact-checked and declared to be lying about the plot of Star Wars by several organizations--with the exception of CNN, who fell asleep during their Star Wars marathon and thus rated her statements as "plausible" out of 10--Fiorina doubled down, declaring events were exactly as the way she described them down to the slow-motion blood spatter on R2D2's carapace, that detractors obviously had not even watched the movies, and that they were "Lucas liberals" and part of the "Industrial-Light-and-Magic complex".

Pressed further, Fiorina angrily responded that "HAL shot first".

this is pretty good
 
You are just giving me hypothetical arguments. Actually argue my points. I already explained why is not likely going to happen.


Obviously minorities aren't, but they aren't white liberal college kids either. If a candidate has a lot of support from a demographic and historical support good luck changing their views, especially if Hillary actually fights to keep them which she most likely will.

He might get some support, but not to the point that Hillary will lose.

You are arguing with hypotheticals too, because no election is like any other and we are talking about predictions. And yet I am arguing with possible scenarios, not just strings of deluded hope. Before Obama's Iowa win, Clinton was leading him in nationals by over 10%, a striking distance that Sanders has already surpassed in some polls. Clinton only recovered because she "won" New Hampshire. So no, I don't think I am overplaying the importance of the first two primaries and I don't believe there's a fundamental flaw in Sanders persona that could prevent him to gain support from a plurality (or a sufficient representation to overcome Clinton) of minority voters.

But you know, politics. For all we know Sanders can implode after the debate or a nasty dark secret from his past arises tomorrow. It is still fun to considerate plausible scenarios, though.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
If I said, "Remember that movie where Darth Vader says, 'Luke, I am your father'?", would your response be, "No such movie exists you're a liar move along now!" Or would you say, "You mean Empire Strikes Back? That's not what he says, though, by the way."

You've made this ESB argument several times and either you didn't watch the movie or I didn't. That line that Vader says IS in that movie, so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.
 

Cheebo

Banned
You've made this ESB argument several times and either you didn't watch the movie or I didn't. That line that Vader says IS in that movie, so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.
There is no bigger way to annoy a Star Wars fan than to say "Luke, I am your father". Hearing that misquote is like a shared trigger of pain.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Actual line is "No, I am your father."

There is no bigger way to annoy a Star Wars fan than to say "Luke, I am your father". Hearing that misquote is like a shared trigger of pain.

Oh, so

"Luke, I am your father"

vs

"No, I am your father"

Star Wars fan blasphemy aside, this distinction isn't even in the same universe as Carly's PP comments.
 
What would be the advantage of having more represntatives per person? I see many people complaining that we have too many politicians at the tax payers dime.
 
There is no bigger way to annoy a Star Wars fan than to say "Luke, I am your father". Hearing that misquote is like a shared trigger of pain.

Dunno man, always seem to get a nice reaction by confusing it with trek or mentioning that the remakes are better because they dont look so old and dated.
What would be the advantage of having more represntatives per person? I see many people complaining that we have too many politicians at the tax payers dime.
More representation, in theory. Allows for different opinions to bubble up and all. In theory. Facilitates the election of niche candidates.
 
Isn't the larger point that the anecdote was used by Fiorina to condemn Planned Parenthood for something that's not actually true? She was essentially saying "This video shows Planned Parenthood is using abortions to harvest baby parts! We must defund them to stop these atrocities!" But if the video's a hoax, it doesn't really matter if her description of it is accurate precisely because it's a hoax; you don't get off the hook for using falsified evidence just because you accurately described what the falsified evidence purported to be.

I guess if the point is she got snookered instead of outright intentionally lying, then I guess I can understand that, but she still has culpability for not correcting herself and/or doubling down. I agree with Meta regarding standards of proof in this case, I don't know whether she lied or got fooled, but she certainly hasn't made an effort to correct her position or acknowledge her mistake.

This is exactly my point, and Meta being hung up on the precise question of her lying or not missed the point.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/09/29/after-republican-lawmaker-boasts-that-benghazi/205867

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The question I think you really want to ask me is, how am I going to be different? What are you going to see differently?

SEAN HANNITY (HOST): I love how you asked my questions. But go ahead, that was one of my questions, go right ahead.

MCCARTHY: I knew you'd want to ask it. What you're going to see is a conservative speaker, that takes a conservative Congress, that puts a strategy to fight and win. And let me give you one example. Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she's untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened, had we not fought and made that happen.

HANNITY: I agree. That's something good, I give you credit for that, I give you credit for sequestration, I give you credit -- I'll give you credit where credit is due.

I thought Benghazi was about the 4 dead americans, not about politics.
 

dramatis

Member

HylianTom

Banned
Part of me wonders if her numbers will see a small rebound effect. She and Bill put forth a kind of "Republican plot" theory, and this is going to validate them. Hell, if the media makes enough stink about it, it might result in voters eyeing the adjacent email issue a teensy bit more skeptically.

This whole incident with McCarthy has been remarkable. We all knew the unspoken truth of this umpteenth investigation, but for some reason he felt that need to appeal to Hannity's audience, and he fucked up. It was several months ago where I claimed that the GOP and Dems would retreat to their corners on these "scandals" after the waters were muddied enough, while voters in the middle would grow tired of it all and shrug. This is now looking more likely. This was a really nice gift.

...

Names of the dead?

I also wonder if they can point to Benghazi on a map. That might be the Question I Ask My GOP Uncle at Thanksgiving this year.
 
You are arguing with hypotheticals too, because no election is like any other and we are talking about predictions. And yet I am arguing with possible scenarios, not just strings of deluded hope. Before Obama's Iowa win, Clinton was leading him in nationals by over 10%, a striking distance that Sanders has already surpassed in some polls. Clinton only recovered because she "won" New Hampshire. So no, I don't think I am overplaying the importance of the first two primaries and I don't believe there's a fundamental flaw in Sanders persona that could prevent him to gain support from a plurality (or a sufficient representation to overcome Clinton) of minority voters.

But you know, politics. For all we know Sanders can implode after the debate or a nasty dark secret from his past arises tomorrow. It is still fun to considerate plausible scenarios, though.

Saying " If he this happens this might happen" is not an argument as it doesn't really mean anything. Your right that this election is not like the others a little, so that's why your comparison with Hillary and Obama is invalid .

Sanders is not Obama; the situation is only similar to polling everything is different like money, support, campaigning, etc. There's a lot of other factors to it like I said before. Also, it is not about his persona partially, but his strategy and his likeliness of succeed .
 

noshten

Member
Saying " If he this happens this might happen" is not an argument as it doesn't really mean anything. Your right that this election is not like the others a little, so that's why your comparison with Hillary and Obama is invalid .

Sanders is not Obama; the situation is only similar to polling everything is different like money, support, campaigning, etc. There's a lot of other factors to it like I said before. Also, it is not about his persona partially, but his strategy and his likeliness of succeed .

Yes Sanders is doing better at this stage than Obama - in the polls, organizationally and in terms of fundraising.

But carry on
 
Yes Sanders is doing better at this stage than Obama - in the polls, organizationally and in terms of fundraising.

But carry on

Sanders is facing a weaker Hillary than Obama did. And Sanders has yet to demonstrate any ability to put together the diverse coalition required to beat Clinton. Carry on.

Maybe he wins NH or Iowa, states like Montana and Vermont...but that's about it.
 
Yes Sanders is doing better at this stage than Obama - in the polls, organizationally and in terms of fundraising.

But carry on

So I take it we're going to continue to ignore how piss-poor Bernie continues to poll with minorities and act like that doesn't matter somehow?
 

noshten

Member
Sanders is facing a weaker Hillary than Obama did. And Sanders has yet to demonstrate any ability to put together the diverse coalition required to beat Clinton. Carry on.

Maybe he wins NH or Iowa, states like Montana and Vermont...but that's about it.

Maybe it's the fact his main investments are based around NH and Iowa, winning those two states ensures much more spotlight than any amount he could spend right now to win over this broad coalition you are talking about.

In order for Bernie to build the bold coalition he is going to need a more informed electorate. Right now a large majority of people still don't have enough information on him - winning Iowa and NH would ensure his message spreads exponentially.

In terms of polling, fundraising and organizational clout, it's dishonest to say Clinton is weaker.

So I take it we're going to continue to ignore how piss-poor Bernie continues to poll with minorities and act like that doesn't matter somehow?

I don't need to bring that up since it's obviously on your agenda. Considering the progress Bernie has already made this early in the race the debates and early primaries will easily change the perception for minorities until they seriously start considering him as electable.
The anointed one is the obvious choice precisely because she is anointed - it's her turn and this type of dynastic messaging and political pragmatism is not going to run with the average American once an alternative is propped up.

He has little minority support right now. Don't put all your cards on that changing based off of IA and NH.

It's not based around just IA and NH, it's based on debates that are yet to happen where Sanders can either propel his campaign into overtaking Obama's path earlier or he could stop his momentum if he performs badly.
Than it's an organizational effort to hire more staff in other States to ensure he has the same type of ground game across the board - that he has currently in IA and NH.

You can only hope.

What exactly do you think would happen if he wins both IA and NH?

If minority voters were inclined to support Sanders AT ALL, wouldn't one think that would show up in polling by now?

A win in New Hampshire and/or Iowa is going to do fuck-all to flip minority support to Sanders.

I see you've already decided what minority supporters are inclined to do, good to know we have such authority in the PoliGAF thread
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Maybe it's the fact his main investments are based around NH and Iowa, winning those two states ensures much more spotlight than any amount he could spend right now to win over this broad coalition you are talking about.

In order for Bernie to build the bold coalition he is going to need a more informed electorate. Right now a large majority of people still don't have enough information on him - winning Iowa and NH would ensure his message spreads exponentially.

In terms of polling, fundraising and organizational clout, it's dishonest to say Clinton is weaker.



I don't need to bring that up since it's obviously on your agenda. Considering the progress Bernie has already made this early in the race the debates and early primaries will easily change the perception for minorities until they seriously start considering him as electable.
The anointed one is the obvious choice precisely because she is anointed - it's her turn and this type of dynastic messaging and political pragmatism is not going to run with the average American once an alternative is propped up.

He has little minority support right now. Don't put all your cards on that changing based off of IA and NH.
 
I don't need to bring that up since it's obviously on your agenda. Considering the progress Bernie has already made this early in the race the debates and early primaries will easily change the perception for minorities until they seriously start considering him as electable.
The anointed one is the obvious choice precisely because she is anointed - it's her turn and this type of dynastic messaging and political pragmatism is not going to run with the average American once an alternative is propped up.

If minority voters were inclined to support Sanders AT ALL, wouldn't one think that would show up in polling by now?

A win in New Hampshire and/or Iowa is going to do fuck-all to flip minority support to Sanders.
 
Sanders is facing a weaker Hillary than Obama did. And Sanders has yet to demonstrate any ability to put together the diverse coalition required to beat Clinton. Carry on.

Maybe he wins NH or Iowa, states like Montana and Vermont...but that's about it.

Do feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but NuChaos or someone has previously linked charts indicating that Hills this time around was an even stronger candidate than back in '08. Mo' delegates, mo' money, mo' poll points, everything.

If minority voters were inclined to support Sanders AT ALL, wouldn't one think that would show up in polling by now?

This is a bit deceiving, no? I mean, we certainly can't explain why hills, the current minority choice performs that well with minorities beyond "she's the front runner and has more name exposure". No reason to believe that Sanders won't be able to shift that around a bit at all ever forever.

Just highly unlikely, is all.
 
Yes Sanders is doing better at this stage than Obama - in the polls, organizationally and in terms of fundraising.

But carry on

If sanders is fundraising better than Obama than so are a few other candidates.

Organizationally? That's straight up bullshit; Obama had the best campaign and was one of the best campaigners. Bernie has none of that and he has none of Obama's crew. You really think that just because he getting some white kids; whom most doesn't vote and probably won't, is going to excite everyone else ? I also counter that Joe Biden is taking a few points away from Hillary; actuality since chances are high that he won't run, her numbers are not as like it is now.

Sanders at least awhile ago as been all over the news chances are that people that pay attention to politics already heard him. The rest have no need to go towards him because Hillary is most likely going to say the same things; and is not some crazy looking white old guy. The dem debates is not going to be the Republican debates; he might get a bump in polling, but so will Hillary and Martian probably, and the bump also might not last long.
 

pigeon

Banned
The first debate is in literally two weeks. Part of the pitch is that Bernie will have a breakout opportunity in the debates, so let's see how that goes.

I can see a path to Bernie winning the nomination. He needs to get a strong boost in the debates, then win Iowa and New Hampshire by strong margins, and have Biden enter but Clinton refuse to drop out. If Bernie can show a lot of strength in the early states, it will be hard for Clinton's establishment support to dislodge him.

I think all of these steps are pretty unlikely on their own, though, so I definitely don't think that they will be particularly likely all together.

But the first step is that Bernie has to win the debates commandingly. I tend to think that the opposite is more likely and that Hillary will probably shore up her support after the debates, when people can see her strengths more. She just better be prepared to talk about the emails.
 
Can't quite see anyone but the moderators bringing that up. Is o'malley or the other guy that brutish?

He actually said a couple days ago:
O'Malley, who registered just 2% the latest CNN/ORC national poll, said he thinks there are still "legitimate questions" Clinton must also answer about her use of a private email server during her four years as secretary of state.

"That's why we need to have debates," he said. "Otherwise, our party is being defined by Hillary Clinton's email scandal. And it's not good for our party and it's not good for our country."
 

noshten

Member
If sanders is fundraising better than Obama than so are a few other candidates.

Organizationally? That's straight up bullshit; Obama had the best campaign and was one of the best campaigners. Bernie has none of that and he has none of Obama's crew. You really think that just because he getting some white kids; whom most doesn't vote and probably won't, is going to excite everyone else ? I also counter that Joe Biden is taking a few points away from Hillary; actuality since chances are high that he won't run, her numbers are not as like it is now.

Sanders at least awhile ago as been all over the news chances are that people that pay attention to politics already heard him. The rest have no need to go towards him because Hillary is most likely going to say the same things; and is not some crazy looking white old guy. The dem debates is not going to be the Republican debates; he might get a bump in polling, but so will Hillary and Martian probably, and the bump also might not last long.

Bernie Sanders has the most individual contributors(over 650K) and has reached 1 million individual contributions faster than anyone else. Clinton's campaign is raising a lot of individual donations via their $1.00 farming, if her campaign hadn't employed this strategy her actually individual donations would have been very different than what it currently stands. Hillary has a problem, she can't reconcile the large donations she is receiving from wealthy people with an image of being progressive, so now she's begging her supporters for $1 donations to bring down the average donation.
So when the actual figures come out it should be very interesting who actually leads the race cash on hand because all these fundraisers, polling, marketing and huge operations Hillary is running would actually eat up a lot of her funds and she has probably maxed out quite a bit of those large donors. This is why there is a deflation in the amount she actually raised this quarter.

Cash on Hand gentlemen you shall see it in two weeks and you are in for a shock.

In terms of organization Sanders is in a different stratosphere compared to Sept 2007 Obama, internet has managed to make a huge difference that was not applicable quite as much as 2007.

Also I take offense with the Crazy Looking White Old Guy comment. This type of narrative can be expected from Trump and his ilk


Bernie Sanders’s $26 million cash haul is a major problem for Hillary Clinton
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-haul-is-a-major-problem-for-hillary-clinton/
 
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