Meanwhile at Trump rally
Holy shi... WHAT?! do you have a link to the video?
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada
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Holy shi... WHAT?! do you have a link to the video?
Seriously, this is way better than the debate was!
Retromelon
Member
Dont believe the hype. It was a good shot but there was no decapitation. And as has already been mentioned, bernie used a portion of his closing statement to defend against a previous attack.
Someone ought to retweet that gif to trump
RustyNails
Member
I'll admit, as someone who was Obama in '08; I am more than a little rankled at her swaddling herself in the Obama flag after the bullshit her campaign pulled on him. There were some "GWB going in on McCain in 2000" level attacks back then.
I get her political philosophy - do whatever it takes to win so you have the ability to do what is right. Lot of politicians do it. But I don't think she's ever realized that she does it so blatantly that it gives off an aura that makes people just "not like her"; even if they can't figure out why. (Her opponents in both primaries also exacerbate the issue with their specific strengths)
User 463088
Banned
That's from her closing!?
OH GOD. There's your damn message. RUN ON THAT QUEEN.
For whatever reason she's decided to sell cold hard pragmatism for most of the primary and that just isn't very sexy.
Tonight I have gone from being annoyed by Bernie Sanders to hating Bernie Sanders.
He's a fucking fraud and he needs to shut up. He's the GOP's golden ticket if he keeps this up.
GO AWAY.
Sanders should be constrained by political reality because without it he will be a worthless President.
He's a fucking fraud and he needs to shut up. He's the GOP's golden ticket if he keeps this up.
GO AWAY.
Sanders should be constrained by political reality because without it he will be a worthless President.
User 463088
Banned
DWS.....super delegates make our party more diverse.
Okay. Ya. No. I mean...girrrrllllll. No.
Okay. Ya. No. I mean...girrrrllllll. No.
She was also part of his administration for 4 years. Honestly that seems to me more why she identifies with him and his terms.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
B-Dubs said:
I'm not sure she will next time given that next time is March 6th. Circumstances will probably be a lot different by then.
This is pretty funny juxtaposed with your last post in this thread :lol
Shit, I forgot about that. She really should have used it earlier and just hammered it home each time he pivoted.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm still just annoyed at Bernie
RustyNails
Member
Bernie's you're not president yet was the most ridiculous thing that struck me. Come on guy. Neither are you. Saying what you will do and will not do as a president is a fairly common things to say.
So many bad overtones. Reminded me of Obama's "you're likable enough" gaffe.
So many bad overtones. Reminded me of Obama's "you're likable enough" gaffe.
Officerrob
Banned
I'm fine with Bernie, but I'm getting more and more annoyed by the day with some of his supporters
No, I was referring to how poorly scheduled they were, with the vast majority being on weekends when it's assured no one is watching,
I liked this tweet a lot
https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/697967169070469120
would be a good way for Hillary to outmaneuver Bernie on health care, demonstrate that she will continue to "build" on aca
https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/697967169070469120
would be a good way for Hillary to outmaneuver Bernie on health care, demonstrate that she will continue to "build" on aca
maabus1999
Member
That's going to hurt him if.the media keeps covering it as its indefensible. A supporter of Bernie tried and got his ass handed to him by other experts. All in all he didn't hurt Clinton enough to move the needle in NV and SC which he.desperately needs to do. In that regard this was a big win for Hillary.
User 463088
Banned
And_Gignac
Member
You guys are only annoyed because he decided to pull the gloves off against Clinton. And it was overdue!
Yoda
Member
I don't think it'll work that easily, Sanders has tied big money and crony-capitalism to economic inequality, Washington dysfunction, and increasingly institutional racism. Which as of now is the entire domestic policy side of the campaign. All of her pivots would have to go toward FP, which the left isn't more concerned with atm.
From the Triumph special
User 463088
Banned
I think a public option is fairly realistic, provided we have a majority in both houses. I think even Blue Dogs would be fine with making tweaks to the ACA. We got rid of fucking Lieberman, thank fuck. I don't think it would be easy, but I think it's marginally attainable.
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't think pivoting to Wall St on other distinct inequality issues that are going to become more prominent is a good look. I don't think it looked good in the debate. But I could be wrong.
ugaboga232
Member
The big problem with public option is you dont quite as good bargaining nor do you simplify the payment schemes for doctors (pls even as a med student i know how much doctors hate spending so much time on navigating insurance payment both for their livelihood and in order to get services for their patients, the insurance companies ration a shit ton).
So its good but unless the public option is very fleshed out, it won't be as efficient as it could be.
So its good but unless the public option is very fleshed out, it won't be as efficient as it could be.
There's a fully fleshed out version sitting on the cutting room floor of the House of Representatives. Picking it up and sliding it in would be the easiest thing in the world, provided the votes were there in the House and Senate. It's not something that would need to be crafted from scratch.
I have to say, I couldn't believe his dodge on the tuition / Republican state governments question. I really want to give Bernie the benefit of the doubt and not just conclude he's a snake oil salesman, but he makes it tough sometimes.
Talking about it this morning, I think Early Childhood Ed is the perfect issue for Hillary to use to outflank Bernie. It speaks to her technocratic strengths, it allows her to build a families first narrative, it pushes back at Bernie on income inequality, all while also being relatively under-discussed from Sanders (he doesn't even have an issues page up on it).
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
True, but letting people under 65 buy into Medicare would be the easiest option for all involved.
RustyNails
Member
Senator sanders, how big government will be under your watch?
"For too long, the millionaires and billionaires..."
Senator sanders, will the deficit grow under your presidency?
"For too long, the millionaires and billionaires..."
Senator sanders, how will you fix the incarceration problem?
"...and by the way, for too long the millionaires and billionaires"
ugaboga232
Member
Nice, why doesn't hilldog talk about that? Seems like the perfect mix of being feasible (kinda sorta maybe hopefully goddamn obstructionism for obstrucionisms sake) and progressive enough (and may save a lot of money and lives!).
TBH i am kinda jelly that canada is talking about basic income. We have a while to go before we can even talk about it (sanders hasnt said anything about that) and automation is coming soon...
User 463088
Banned
One thing though:
Any public option needs to allow you to buy into it at the same rates even if you have employer based coverage. I'm getting screwed because of this. I no longer get my tax credit for my Obamacare plan since my company offers comparable coverage. My premium is going up $30 a month and my benefits are going down. It sucks.
Let me buy into a government run plan, please, and I'll be damn happy.
Any public option needs to allow you to buy into it at the same rates even if you have employer based coverage. I'm getting screwed because of this. I no longer get my tax credit for my Obamacare plan since my company offers comparable coverage. My premium is going up $30 a month and my benefits are going down. It sucks.
Let me buy into a government run plan, please, and I'll be damn happy.
A lot of things are realistic if you have both houses. That doesn't change the reality much.
Probably because it's DOA in Congress unless we win back a majority in the House and a super-majority in the Senate. If she wins I expect she'll use it for reelection, as a way to drive up turnout and win back as much as possible before the Census. This election isn't only about 2016, it's also about who can win in 2020 (which is going to be way more important given the timing).
ugaboga232
Member
Agreed, you won't get any bargaining points if you discourage the vast majority of people who have employer based coverage (which limits job mobility) that may not be ideal.
User 463088
Banned
Democratic leadership has already said Bernie's plan is DOA. They will not take that up, even if we have both houses. We got burned too bad in 2010, for one, and we will not try and pass something that raises taxes on the middle class. Public option, though, probably has a fair bit of built in support.
This is just pissing me off, you know? I'm making 3x what I made before, so even if I kept my Exchange plan, my premium was going to go up a bit. Even on top of that though, I'm paying another $30 for coverage that is just not good. I will say, though, they do offer a low cost plan for hourly people. It's like $19.00 every two weeks. It's not great coverage at all, but it's a hell of a lot better than the shit places used to give to entry level people. I also get an HSA which I have no clue what I'm supposed to do with.
And a 401k. Ugh.
shinra-bansho
Member
Random non-sequitur* question, but I'm kind of curious, setting aside how impractical it is, would anyone here actually reverse the US granting of PNTR with China?
(*Although it did come up tangentially in the debate.)
(*Although it did come up tangentially in the debate.)
You really can't square this with any sort of care for realism. It's a promise that can't be kept.
If you're going to say well if we win both houses such and such could happen it's not that different from what Bernie is selling.
You know, the debate is on YouTube. You can rewatch it instead of just making shit up. This is like saying Clinton's response to every question was Obama, Obama, and more Obama. Did she mention she was going to continue Obama's policies? Because she's going to totally Obama that Obama.
Distilling candidates down like this is petty and small-minded. Leave that to the Republicans.
Ogrekiller
Member
When people are peddling fantasies, selling realism is bad marketing.
Hillary should just junk the game Sanders is playing and play dirty. With luck the Republicans would be too fractured to overcome the split in the Democrat party.
Nope.
User 463088
Banned
Uh...yes, yes I can. Unless Bernie manages to sweep people into power and overthrow the entire Democratic leadership then his single payer plan is dead on arrival. There is not a single sitting Democratic senator who has endorsed him. There are only a handful from the House. He has no political capital to exploit to use the bully pulpit effectively. Having a majority is not enough. You have to beat them into voting the way you want them. I don't think Bernie can do that without the support of the Speaker and the Whip, We can argue that neither plan are realistic under a GOP controlled Congress, but both plans are not equally realistic if we control both houses.
For example, Hillary and Bernie are both proposing plans to drastically reduce the cost of going to college. Both plans can only pass if we control Congress. However, Hillary's is more realistic because it doesn't magically require billions of dollars from each state.
The reason I said the public option has more support is that it did pass the House once already. We lost in the Senate, though. Couldn't get Joe Lieberman to shut the fuck up.
Republican debate in just two days! Too many debates, damn.
I have had this exact thought.
I can't wait for those republican governors to implement free tuition
Elaugaufein
Member
The last time a party held the presidency for 4 consecutive terms was before presidential term limits (it ended in 1952). So if your platform is realism that's not a great place to start. On the other hand it's something you need to do so I guess you have to approach it as possible.
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